Roman/ancient history: Checkmate, Atenists

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Roman/ancient history: Checkmate, Atenists

Kaal: May 22, 2002; through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

WoodrowSkillson posted:

its a joke twitter guys its ok

The Twitter account is fake, but the organization does appear to be real and they're trying to become accredited.

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2021/11/08/university-austin-launches-without-accreditation-physical-campus/6340353001/

quote:

The University of Austin, a private liberal arts school, is planning to open soon in the state�s capital in response to what some perceive as a culture of censorship on college campuses. But it still needs accreditation, a physical location and an undergraduate program.

Pano Kanelos, the incoming president of the University of Austin, announced the formation of the nonprofit university Monday on the Substack newsletter platform in the publication �Common Sense� by former New York Times journalist Bari Weiss.

'Intellectual dissent is protected'
Kanelos, the former president of St. John's College, a small private school with a curriculum focused on classics from Western civilization, said he is helping establish the university in response to institutions that produce graduates who are �incapable and unwilling to participate in the core activity of democratic governance.� He said the university will be focused on �the intrepid pursuit of truth� and exposing students to �the deepest wisdom of civilization.�

�The reality is that many universities no longer have an incentive to create an environment where intellectual dissent is protected and fashionable opinions are scrutinized,� Kanelos said. �At our most prestigious schools, the primary incentive is to function as finishing school for the national and global elite.�

The University of Austin, also known by its abbreviation UATX, is not offering degrees and does not plan to offer an undergraduate degree program until at least 2024. The school is still in the process of securing land in the Austin area for a physical campus, and it is seeking millions in donations for scholarships and to help establish its programs.

The institution also is seeking accreditation from the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board and initial accreditation through the Higher Learning Commission. Heather Berg, director of communications and strategic projects for the commission, said the accreditation process can take between one and seven years.

The school said it might offer other programs in partnership with an accredited institution until it is accredited.

Founders include former Harvard president
The founders of the school include former Harvard President Lawrence Summers; former ACLU President Nadine Strossen; Arthur Brooks, former president of the American Enterprise Institute; and journalists, academics and other former university presidents. UATX did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The institution's headquarters is near the University of Texas at 2112 Rio Grande St., and its website estimates that the land for the university will cost between $25 million and $100 million. According to its website, the founders chose Austin for the university location because Texas is seeing an increase in talent and capital and the city is �a hub for builders, mavericks and creators.�

�If it's good enough for Elon Musk and Joe Rogan, it's good enough for us,� the website says.

Curriculum focused on 'leadership and market foundations'
In summer 2022, the institution plans to offer a summer college program called Forbidden Courses, in which students will discuss �provocative questions that often lead to censorship or self-censorship.� In fall 2022, the school will offer masters programs in entrepreneurship and leadership, and then programs in politics and applied history, and education and public service.

�UATX will recruit elite students from top schools, teach them the classical principles of leadership and market foundations, and then embed them into a network of successful technologists, entrepreneurs, venture capitalists, and public-policy reformers,� the website said. �Students will then actively apply their learning to the most urgent and seemingly intractable problems facing our society.�

The school is planning to launch its four-year undergraduate program in fall 2024. The first two years of the liberal arts program will include studying philosophy, literature, history and economics before joining as junior fellows one of four university academic centers: the Center for Entrepreneurship and Leadership; the Center for Politics and Applied History; the Center for Education and Public Service; and the Center for Technology, Engineering and Mathematics.

The university website said the school also plans to develop master's programs in technology, engineering and mathematics, as well as doctorate programs. Classes will be offered largely in person with a mixture of �lecture, seminar discussion, and small tutorial sessions,� according to the school.

The institution has received the funds to launch the university, but officials are looking to secure about $250 million more, according to the website. It said the school will be creating a funding model that �reverses higher ed's lopsided priorities of building up a bureaucracy,� including streamlining or outsourcing student aﬀairs, athletics and other �extraneous services.�

The university is not yet taking applications. That will begin in the spring for Forbidden Courses. According to the website, the university will not factor race, gender or class into admission decisions because it �stands firmly against that sort of discrimination.�

# ? Nov 9, 2021 18:03

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 23:09

WoodrowSkillson: Feb 24, 2005; *Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

oh i know, its gonna be real funny

# ? Nov 9, 2021 18:06

Brawnfire: Jul 13, 2004; 🎧Listen to Cylindricule!🎵
https://linktr.ee/Cylindricule

~~Liberal~~ CONSERVATIVE Arts

# ? Nov 9, 2021 18:36

Power Khan: Aug 20, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

Alternative scince

# ? Nov 9, 2021 18:39

mycomancy: Oct 16, 2016

Brawnfire posted:

~~Liberal~~ CONSERVATIVE Arts

Aren't the Conservative Arts and Sciences literally just pedophilic child sacrifices?

# ? Nov 9, 2021 18:46

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

1922

I forget, what's the logic for that date?

# ? Nov 10, 2021 10:34

Power Khan: Aug 20, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

Zereth posted:

I forget, what's the logic for that date?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_the_Ottoman_Empire

# ? Nov 10, 2021 10:57

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

Power Khan posted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_the_Ottoman_Empire

Thanks.

# ? Nov 10, 2021 14:55

Radia: Jul 14, 2021; And someday, together.. We'll shine.

it's really the only reasonable date outside of 1204, but Byzaboos don't want you to think that

# ? Nov 10, 2021 17:11

Strategic Tea: Sep 1, 2012

quote:

The university is not yet taking applications. That will begin in the spring for Forbidden Courses. According to the website, the university will not factor race, gender or class into admission decisions because it “stands firmly against that sort of discrimination.

I can't stand ~~those sort of~~ that sort of discrimination

# ? Nov 10, 2021 20:22

wins32767: Mar 16, 2007

I have a bit of an oddball question, hopefully someone can point me in the right direction. Is there some sort of survey that covers Roman and Greek conceptions of leadership? I'm thinking broadly here, not just military leadership. My sense is that, at least during the Republic, many of the things that we today conceive of as a distinct quality of "leadership" were more woven into the default expectations of maleness in the senatorial class but it'd also be curious to learn about how things we think of today as middle management were handled or thought about (How did the person who ran an estate for some far off senator or a city magistrate think about their job?). Happy to read some pretty dense scholarly stuff, just not sure where to start pulling the thread from.

wins32767 fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Nov 11, 2021

# ? Nov 11, 2021 03:30

Tulip: Jun 3, 2008; yeah thats pretty good

wins32767 posted:

I have a bit of an oddball question, hopefully someone can point me in the right direction. Is there some sort of survey that covers Roman and Greek conceptions of leadership? I'm thinking broadly here, not just military leadership. My sense is that, at least during the Republic, many of the things that we today conceive of as a distinct quality of "leadership" were more woven into the default expectations of maleness in the senatorial class but it'd also be curious to learn about how things we think of today as middle management were handled or thought about (How did the person who ran an estate for some far off senator or a city magistrate think about their job?). Happy to read some pretty dense scholarly stuff, just not sure where to start pulling the thread from.

Soldiers and Ghosts by JE Lendon. It's about the whole swathe of "what did greeks & romans think made a good soldier" but this does include a lot of time on Alexander and Caesar (and Julian). I will say that the impression I got was that "leadership" and general good soldiering were not super separated in either culture. Virtus and disciplina made you a good soldier in a duel, in a unit, and as a commander.

# ? Nov 11, 2021 05:56

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Gaius Marius posted:

That armor was probably a compromise with the actors contracts that said they had to have x number of screentime with their face present. Same reason Spiderman gets his mask ripped in the raimi films

They only put on the helmets for a relatively small part at the very start and end of the movie, though. I presumed they're jousting helmets, given the way the duel begins.

# ? Nov 11, 2021 17:57

Zopotantor: Feb 24, 2013; ...und ist er drin dann lassen wir ihn niemals wieder raus...

Imagined posted:

'The Cancellation of Julius Caesar' is brilliant though.

the cancellation of Jesse James by the liberal Robert Ford

# ? Nov 11, 2021 22:15

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Discuss. I'm now picturing Alf set in Roman times, as a friend has apparently seen a post expanding on this as how 'wacky houseguest' could basically be a career in certain social situations.

# ? Nov 13, 2021 17:37

Cessna: Feb 20, 2013; KHABAHBLOOOM

We had them back in the 90s.

# ? Nov 13, 2021 18:24

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

Is praecones doing ad breaks a real thing?

"True roman bread... for true romans..." as the government collapses is my favourite.

# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:00

The Lone Badger: Sep 24, 2007

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Is praecones doing ad breaks a real thing?

"True roman bread... for true romans..." as the government collapses is my favourite.

Absolutely. They also had billboards and celebrity endorsements (from famous gladiators)

# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:10

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

Do you have a source for that? Every time I try to look for one I just find a chain of citations leading back to an interview for the movie Gladiator

# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:11

Grand Fromage: Jan 30, 2006; L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?

I do not have a source since it was a long time ago but I learned it in a university course on Roman entertainment. My prof specializes in it so I'm sure he got it from an actual source and not Gladiator. Fully admit I don't have a citation here though.

The billboards are an easy yes since we have preserved ones in Pompeii you can go look at.

# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:15

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

Thanks, I was always curious whether that one was even real. Would still be nice to see a proper source for celebrity endorsements but I'm content knowing one exists

# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:20

Grand Fromage: Jan 30, 2006; L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?

There's a small but nonzero chance I still have the course pack for that around here, if I run across it I'll see what's in the bibliography.

# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:26

Cast_No_Shadow: Jun 8, 2010; The Republic of Luna Equestria is a huge, socially progressive nation, notable for its punitive income tax rates. Its compassionate, cynical population of 714m are ruled with an iron fist by the dictatorship government, which ensures that no-one outside the party gets too rich.

This is the single most frustrating thing about ancient history for me.

Where we know something cool happened, we even know a few details maybe, just something to tease a bit.

And then you get all excited and dig in only to find that no, that's it, 5 lines in a text talking about something else, and we aren't 100% on that last line.

# ? Nov 13, 2021 23:30

Squibsy: Dec 3, 2005; Not suited, just booted.; College Slice

Grand Fromage posted:

Judge Judy.

I think it is a quick way to know that the person making the comparison has only a very shallow knowledge of both subjects and thinks he/she can use that to pretend to be intellectual.

The US was consciously based on Rome and there are parallels, which makes the comparison popular enough, but that doesn't make it valid. It also always ignores the entire rest of the world.

When General Petraeus is marching on Washington with an army of dissatisfied Iraq/Afghanistan veterans, President for Life Obama is having senators executed, and roving armies of Canadian raiders are burning and looting across the border we can maybe start talking about it.

So I've been reading this thread for a couple of weeks and this post gave me chills in TYOOL 2021

# ? Nov 14, 2021 01:07

mycomancy: Oct 16, 2016

Squibsy posted:

So I've been reading this thread for a couple of weeks and this post gave me chills in TYOOL 2021

Yeah that post has some fuckin' big ol' 2025 vibes about it. I don't care for it at all, no sir.

# ? Nov 14, 2021 01:12

Gaius Marius: Oct 9, 2012

Yeah chilling how absolutely none of that happened

# ? Nov 14, 2021 01:12

Grand Fromage: Jan 30, 2006; L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?

I still think 99% of Rome/US comparisons are dumb but if you're going to make one, the Gracchi era certainly has its parallels.

# ? Nov 14, 2021 01:39

Squibsy: Dec 3, 2005; Not suited, just booted.; College Slice

Grand Fromage posted:

I still think 99% of Rome/US comparisons are dumb but if you're going to make one, the Gracchi era certainly has its parallels.

Yes, more seriously I agree that comparisons are dumb. But where GF was making outlandish suggestions of things that couldn't possibly ever happen it now feels like much more a case of a gritting your teeth and reassuring oneself that of course it can't get that bad.

Anyways, back to 2012 I go.

# ? Nov 14, 2021 01:53

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

I agree that we're in an era of wilfully ignoring the signs of civilization straining towards collapse so those posts are perfect.

# ? Nov 14, 2021 02:22

Radia: Jul 14, 2021; And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Arglebargle III posted:

I agree that we're in an era of wilfully ignoring the signs of civilization straining towards collapse so those posts are perfect.

This never happened to Rome.

# ? Nov 14, 2021 02:24

Gaius Marius: Oct 9, 2012

Broke: tired US Rome analogies
Woke: https://theweek.com/articles/939193/america-holy-roman-empire-21st-century

# ? Nov 14, 2021 02:32

FreudianSlippers: Apr 12, 2010; Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

The USA is obviously more comparable to the Ottoman Empire (Third Rome)

# ? Nov 14, 2021 02:43

FreudianSlippers: Apr 12, 2010; Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Especially how the real power in the state is a caste of slave warriors and how every president kills all his brothers when he ascends to power.

# ? Nov 14, 2021 02:44

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

the ottomans are second rome tho

# ? Nov 14, 2021 02:54

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

Jazerus posted:

the ottomans are second rome tho

they're fourth rome, with the latin empire and the subsequent byzantine revival as second and third

# ? Nov 14, 2021 02:56

The Lone Badger: Sep 24, 2007

I cam confirm that American politics is brought to a crawl by every politician constantly recalculating who he can get away with castrating.

# ? Nov 14, 2021 03:07

Phobophilia: Apr 26, 2008; by Hand Knit

This discussion is a strawman in that politics have always been about the desire to destroy your political opponent's bodies. This no longer happens against political elites (like Nancy Pelosi or Mike Pence, even if those at January 6th tried). But political violence against the less privileged has never stopped, and the threat of it breaking through the attempts of the security state (or spurred on by the security state!) is looming larger than ever.

# ? Nov 14, 2021 08:55

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Phobophilia posted:

This discussion is a strawman in that politics have always been about the desire to destroy your political opponent's bodies. This no longer happens against political elites (like Nancy Pelosi or Mike Pence, even if those at January 6th tried). But political violence against the less privileged has never stopped, and the threat of it breaking through the attempts of the security state (or spurred on by the security state!) is looming larger than ever.

I think this is an extremely narrow and totalizing view of the concept of politics, although it is admittedly true that history did begin in the year 1783 with the foundation of the United States of America. (Pre-history is defined as the British Empire in the 17th and 18th century. It is unclear why these centuries have numbers, as no time existed previously; personally, I blame Capitalism.)

# ? Nov 14, 2021 09:29

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

The conversation about whether US/Rome parallels are valid is a strawman because politics is about violence...?

# ? Nov 14, 2021 09:55

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 23:09

Power Khan: Aug 20, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

cheetah7071 posted:

The conversation about whether US/Rome parallels are valid is a strawman because politics is about violence...?

Is this irony or sarcasm?

# ? Nov 14, 2021 11:07

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