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I remember the book saying that other people make stillsuits, but those are mostly shoddy crap and you'd be a fool to rely on them in the desert.
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Nov 17, 2021 18:56
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A full environment suit doesn't necessarily imply water recycling. It might just have a bladder you empty out or crappy filters that mean it still tastes like pee when you drink it down again.
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Nov 17, 2021 19:12
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No Mods No Masters posted:Lynch dune, with its point of 'what if charismatic leaders are loving awesome actually', is a necessary part of the dialectic Dr. Fishopolis posted:it would have been a very clever ending if they had simply made it clear that water destroys the worms. in that sense, paul chose to end galactic civilization as it was known, which is more interesting. EDIT: I think I see what you're saying - but it doesn't work because saying "it would've been very clever if <thing that didn't happen> happened" doesn't work - and it's not as if it was some last-minute post-production re-shoot which could hypothetically be blamed on the De Laurentiis'. It was an entire scene with all of the major cast as well as a whole bunch of extras, everyone in what ended up as wet still-suits and with a whole "everybody clapped" feeling to it. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 19:28
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:EDIT: I think I see what you're saying - but it doesn't work because saying "it would've been very clever if <thing that didn't happen> happened" doesn't work - and it's not as if it was some last-minute post-production re-shoot which could hypothetically be blamed on the De Laurentiis'. i'm saying they could have taken the concept of water being poisonous to worms, put it in the lynch movie with like one line of dialog, and it would have been a more interesting ending. i honestly don't understand what you're talking about.
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Nov 17, 2021 19:40
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:The spirit of the book which somehow involves making a character into a magic space wizard that can make it rain on a planet that has almost no free water, subverting the entire point of the actual book which is about how even the best intentions of powerful and charismatic people will be twisted out of their control? Lynch isn’t referring to the plot here at all.
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Nov 17, 2021 19:46
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Crespolini posted:We can? Well, the pedo aspect is fine if they want to go that route, I meant more that in the books revolving around Paul everything is pretty heteronormative except for the Harkonnens and I wouldn't mind that being changed, even if it's just background characters. We've already had Liet-Kynes reinterpreted as a woman, what would be wrong with some LGB Fremen couples?
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Nov 17, 2021 19:55
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When reading the books, it was incredibly weird to me that gay sex is beyond the pale in the decadent space empire.
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Nov 17, 2021 19:58
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Halloween Jack posted:When reading the books, it was incredibly weird to me that gay sex is beyond the pale in the decadent space empire.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:02
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Alchenar posted:The thing that occurred to me is that it is a bit unclear why Fremen stillsuits are a big deal when the Harkonnen and Sardaukar are clearly wearing full environment suit-armour. It is explained in the book that you can get all kinds of stillsuits, but the Fremen suits are by far the best and probably the only really effective ones E:F;B
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Nov 17, 2021 20:08
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:
also, at no point did I respond to you with a non-sequitur. the first time, you posted that it was somehow revisionist of David Lynch to suggest that he didn't have final cut of the movie, which is just plain dumb and wrong and I was more polite about it than I could have been. the second time, you posted that the first three books were "supposed to be" a single volume, which is not quite what frank herbert said so i thought i'd elucidate a little.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:15
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I went and saw this in theaters last night, and just ordered the book because the movie was so good. I disagree hard with the person upthread who compared the battle scenes to Marvel movies. The first chunk of the movie was so good at setting up House Atreides. It was compressed, but they did a really good job of making it seem like a glimpse of a detailed and long-lasting culture. By the time the bombing comes, I was actually sad to watch that culture die. I’ve never felt that about any of the rotating collection of color-coded extras that occupy the Marvel universe. The fall of the city wasn’t a punch-up so much as it was an ethnic cleansing. I was a little confused by that section though, because Duke Dreamy Dreamsicle seemed to be aware an attack was coming (“I thought we’d have more time”) but then does nothing to prevent his forces from getting chumped in 5 minutes. Baronash fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Nov 17, 2021 |
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Nov 17, 2021 20:19
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Sodomy Hussein posted:It is explained in the book that you can get all kinds of stillsuits, but the Fremen suits are by far the best and probably the only really effective ones Oh I know in the book it's different, it's just in the film the Sardaukar suits are clearly all-encompassing whereas the Fremen suits are losing you moisture through all the face.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:22
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Alchenar posted:Oh I know in the book it's different, it's just in the film the Sardaukar suits are clearly all-encompassing whereas the Fremen suits are losing you moisture through all the face. I guess in totality it's not clear to me that the Sardaukar of the film are actually using stillsuits, as opposed to just simple space marine armor, such as it is.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:25
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Sodomy Hussein posted:I guess in totality it's not clear to me that the Sardaukar of the film are actually using stillsuits, as opposed to just simple space marine armor, such as it is. Yeah but your space marine armour presumably isn't leaking somewhere. (and yes I know you can say the reclamation bit is the bit that makes Fremen suits special, but I think it's clear in the book that Fremen suits are special because they are particularly good at preventing loss).
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Nov 17, 2021 20:28
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Sodomy Hussein posted:It is explained in the book that you can get all kinds of stillsuits, but the Fremen suits are by far the best and probably the only really effective ones The knockoff suits still gather urine and feces in catchpockets, but don't filter them.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:41
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Alchenar posted:Yeah but your space marine armour presumably isn't leaking somewhere. (and yes I know you can say the reclamation bit is the bit that makes Fremen suits special, but I think it's clear in the book that Fremen suits are special because they are particularly good at preventing loss). Preventing moisture loss ain't gonna mean poo poo when sand clogs all the joints in your fancy space marine armor after 12 hours in the desert.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:49
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You can technically say there's no loss in a full eva suit but if you don't have the recirculation you're gonna get parched real fast. The water is still in the suit with you but you can't drink it.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:50
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A burseg poo poo in he own mouth, a shameful burseg
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Nov 17, 2021 20:51
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Baronash posted:I went and saw this in theaters last night, and just ordered the book because the movie was so good. I disagree hard with the person upthread who compared the battle scenes to Marvel movies. The first chunk of the movie was so good at setting up House Atreides. It was compressed, but they did a really good job of making it seem like a glimpse of a detailed and long-lasting culture. By the time the bombing comes, I was actually sad to watch that culture die. I’ve never felt that about any of the rotating collection of color-coded extras that occupy the Marvel universe. The fall of the city wasn’t a punch-up so much as it was an ethnic cleansing. You gotta understand that at this point in film discourse, a solid chunk of people have taken "like a Marvel movie" to mean "bad" and there's not any nuance. Because smart people have been using Marvel as a reference to point out larger flaws common to many movies (third act problems, an over-reliance on spectacle-based rather than emotional conflicts, a jocular but inflexible tone, etc.), other, dumber people have learned that "like a Marvel movie" is a critique you can lobby against something and parrot it regardless of if it's like a Marvel movie at all. I have some problems with Dune's fight scenes, but they in no way resemble your average Marvel movie except in really basic levels like "is an action sequence in a movie I saw". And I took Leto's line about wanting more time to specifically mean he was preparing but he was preparing on the assumption he'd have more than like a week : he was aware that the attack was coming, but he was building an alliance with the Fremen to have long-term support cause he thought it would be in months-years.
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Nov 17, 2021 20:53
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Halloween Jack posted:When reading the books, it was incredibly weird to me that gay sex is beyond the pale in the decadent space empire. i was in a teenage angsty atheist sort of mindset when I first read them and I just assumed with all the Orange Catholic Bible stuff floating around that yeah sexual repression still kickin makes sense if Catholics run everything that isn't Zensunni
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Nov 17, 2021 21:00
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I assume Orange Catholicism must combine all the worst aspects of Catholicism and Northern Irish Protestantism.
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Nov 17, 2021 21:10
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For all the problems Lynch dune had at least there was some artistic imagination put into it, unlike Dunc.
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Nov 17, 2021 21:40
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stratdax posted:For all the problems Lynch dune had at least there was some artistic imagination put into it, unlike Dunc. lol this is such a dumb and lazy "criticism" Yeah man no imagination at all. The thopters alone were more visually impressive than anything in 1984 Dune, IMO. I've been aware of thopters as a concept since I was a kid playing the Dune RTS games. This film depicted them in a way that no one has tried before, and it worked incredibly well. That's just one example.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:25
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:Yeah man no imagination at all. The thopters alone were more visually impressive than anything in 1984 Dune, IMO. I've been aware of thopters as a concept since I was a kid playing the Dune RTS games. This film depicted them in a way that no one has tried before, and it worked incredibly well. That's just one example.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:36
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I've said this before, but I like some things about the Lynch Dune and dislike others. The costumes are too samey--I like the sleek black synthetic fabric, but there are too many different factions who are all wearing black synthetic fabric. Overall, I like the early 20th century era design of the props and uniforms. There are also some props that are just weirdly lazy and bad, like the "Emperor's blade" that Sting uses in the final duel. Seriously, what the gently caress is this:  This is in the same movie with crysknives that look good.
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Nov 17, 2021 22:52
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Baronash posted:
The scale of the attack is basically unthinkable in this setting, for two reasons: 1)the Baron has all but bankrupted himself from the cost of getting ships and soldiers together for the assault, which is nigh unthinkable for an ancient noble house 2)the Baron is being aided by the Emperor, which is absolutely unthinkable for anyone because if the Emperor backs one noble house over another then all the other houses will start to get nervous of getting the same treatment. This is especially true of House Atreides, because the whole reason he wants them gone is that they're popular with the other houses.
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Nov 17, 2021 23:03
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Halloween Jack posted:When reading the books, it was incredibly weird to me that gay sex is beyond the pale in the decadent space empire. It would be incredibly weird if the decadent space empire had a morality even vaguely resembling ours. SF has often had the problem where future morality is either "the average opinion of New England WASPs at the time of writing" or "the morality of I, the Author, a Nietzschean god beyond the comprehension of you fools with your primitive superstitions and age of consent laws". Wonky stuff like Orange Catholics and Zensunni and jihads against thinking machines are at least something off the beaten path. Well, at least until we get to the space witches who can mind control you with how good they are at sex.
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Nov 17, 2021 23:39
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stratdax posted:For all the problems Lynch dune had at least there was some artistic imagination put into it, unlike Dunc. Lol okay
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Nov 17, 2021 23:43
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Alexa show me the worst post in the DUNC thread
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Nov 17, 2021 23:43
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He's been posting the same thing in all the Dune threads since the movie premiered. He has some kind of vested interest in letting everyone know he disliked the movie.
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Nov 17, 2021 23:53
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Kurzon posted:I think the Baron is gay in the books. Halloween Jack posted:He's not even really "gay," the sum total of his sexuality is preying on adolescent boys. could edit the "really" out there. sounds unfortunately like saying the pedo is trying (and failing) to be homo. which I know isn't what you meant lol when people talk about Dune being unfilmable there's the whole grand spectacle, trippy drug poo poo, and internal monologues. but one of the major characters being such an explicit child rapist is also an issue to deal with. can say Vileneuve made a fair choice to so gloss over that and pick out other aspects of the character instead
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Nov 17, 2021 23:57
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Halloween Jack posted:I've said this before, but I like some things about the Lynch Dune and dislike others. The costumes are too samey--I like the sleek black synthetic fabric, but there are too many different factions who are all wearing black synthetic fabric. My favorite costuming detail from dune 84 is that the guild reps are wearing actual used bodybags, which the actors were not told about at the time
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Nov 18, 2021 00:01
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Cerv posted:could edit the "really" out there. sounds unfortunately like saying the pedo is trying (and failing) to be homo. which I know isn't what you meant lol I don't really see how "he isn't actually gay, he's a chomo" implies that pedophilia is attempted homosexuality, but "failing to be homo" sounds for real very problematic.
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Nov 18, 2021 00:21
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Halloween Jack posted:A burseg poo poo in he own mouth, a shameful burseg  a deep cut 
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Nov 18, 2021 00:35
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Anonymous Zebra posted:He's been posting the same thing in all the Dune threads since the movie premiered. He has some kind of vested interest in letting everyone know he disliked the movie. I don't get the point of saying what was said instead of just saying "I don't like it", though.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:01
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Baron von Eevl posted:I don't really see how "he isn't actually gay, he's a chomo" implies that pedophilia is attempted homosexuality, but "failing to be homo" sounds for real very problematic.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:11
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Kurzon posted:It occurs to me that a warrior who combines those shields with conventional body armor would be unstoppable. The Sardaukar wore body armor when they attacked Arrakis, but Duncan had no trouble knifing them. Do they not have Kevlar gorgets in the far future? This is just Hollywood convention like where you can shoot arrows and stab longswords through platemail, like when Duncan takes some slashes directly to his armored chest and that kills him. The armor is there to telegraph that these are Serious Business Mooks and that's about it. Yes, obviously they should only be vulnerable at joints or whatever but nobody's got time for that level of choreography.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:13
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The Orange Catholic bible is named to evoke the mending of religious schism. The doctrine itself is deliberately formed to be universal, combining all religion.quote:C.E.T. convened on a neutral island of Old Earth, spawning ground of the mother religions. They met “in the common belief that there exists a Divine Essence in the universe.” Every faith with more than a million followers was represented, and they reached a surprisingly immediate agreement on the statement of their common goal:
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Nov 18, 2021 02:21
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mossyfisk posted:The Orange Catholic bible is named to evoke the mending of religious schism. The doctrine itself is deliberately formed to be universal, combining all religion.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:24
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I get that some people don't like things I like, because I know from personal experience that sometimes I just bounce hard off something that even people whose recommendations in the past have been good couldn't make me like it by talking about it. Eh, the poster explained his criticism around the lack of imagination which I definitely see. Again, probably had unrealistic expectations of the movie but coming from the dude who did Sicario, Enemy, and Bladerunner it was definitely blander that I had expected. Perhaps Villeneueve is just really reliant on someone like Deakins to interpret his vision, but Enemy even was still much more evocative.
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Nov 18, 2021 02:33
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