|
Finally, I've found the perfect keyboard. https://www.impulseboards.com.au/wombat 
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2021 19:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 22:41 |
|
|
ijyt posted:Finally, I've found the perfect keyboard. That takes me back to when I had to use old rear end terminal software designed for keyboards with function keys up to ~F32. Wild.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2021 19:29
|
|
|
Loucks posted:I'm hoping someone can help me here. I've been using a Unicomp Model M clone for years, but I need a quieter keyboard because I can't use the M at night without waking people up. Most mechanical switches seem to be suitable for this, but I'd really like a wireless keyboard for my home office. Problem is my work machine doesn't have Bluetooth, so I'll need a keyboard with a USB receiver rather than a direct BT connection. This seems like an odd enough requirement that there I haven't found a way to search for it. I've found Velocifire's offerings, and their TKL02WS 87 key model seems fine, but at $50 it seem a little too cheap to be durable. Has anyone messed with this specific keyboard or have a different suggestion? I really do like the 87 key layout that just chops off the numpad, but I'm open to alternatives. One of my clients is using that exact velocifire for office work and she seems to like it. Previously she had a rubber dome logitech but had some issues with it so this was my suggestion for an alternative. The next best choices are probably keyboards by manufacturers that are more targeted to gaming like razer, logitech, corsair. The main issues with a lot of them are bloated terrible software packages to do any changes of the lighting. The velocifire has a light up and down function key thing but it seems like up is lights on and down is lights off.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2021 19:55
|
|
|
That's helpful. Simple is all I want here, so anything that requires installing software is a nonstarter. It does look like the Keychron K8 meets my needs if I spend the extra $15 on a USB BT dongle, and the hot-swappable version would let me swap out switches in the future if I'm understanding correctly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2021 21:13
|
|
|
Loucks posted:That's helpful. Simple is all I want here, so anything that requires installing software is a nonstarter. It does look like the Keychron K8 meets my needs if I spend the extra $15 on a USB BT dongle, and the hot-swappable version would let me swap out switches in the future if I'm understanding correctly. Yeah, but make sure if you buy a Keychron you get it through Amazon or another retailer with a good return policy. My Keychron C1 has been great but a couple of goons have had issues with their wireless keyboards and Keychron support seems to be garbage so you want to be able to return or exchange it without dealing with them if your board has issues. Hotswap boards let you pull the switches out and replace them easily as long as they're similar pinouts (most cherry mx style switches are but some are not!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWMTbDQQUco
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2021 21:25
|
|
|
Keychron's "support" is at least as actively and transparently hostile to customers as Comcast's, and I had thought that was impossible
Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Nov 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2021 21:30
|
|
|
I contacted Akko to see if they had stock of something and asked a few questions, they were very responsive and nice.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2021 21:32
|
|
|
I think the royal kludge boards offer 2.4 ghz wireless. I think at least the rk84.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2021 23:14
|
|
|
redeyes posted:I contacted Akko to see if they had stock of something and asked a few questions, they were very responsive and nice. Akko seems great unless you get steaming mad about vendors stealing colorways for keycaps
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2021 23:38
|
|
|
mewse posted:Akko seems great unless you get steaming mad about vendors stealing colorways for keycaps Yeah I don't give a crap about that. Companies do company things, not my problem.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 00:31
|
|
|
redeyes posted:Yeah I don't give a crap about that. Companies do company things, not my problem. Weird questionable ethics flex here
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 01:31
|
|
|
Agreed. If the guy with anti-employee MAGA red text cringes at how anti-ethics your post is, you need to reconsider your posting choices.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 01:42
|
|
|
Nah, disagreeing with that dude seems like a good call. If the red text has any validity they’re not worth listening to. Why would anyone get their panties in a twist about copying key colors anyway? Who cares?
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 01:48
|
|
|
Blinkz0rz posted:Weird questionable ethics flex here You mean lack of ethics? Why would I care? I just buy keyboards I like. No flex, more like apathy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 01:48
|
|
|
Loucks posted:Nah, disagreeing with that dude seems like a good call. If the red text has any validity they’re not worth listening to. Well, the people who do the original work for one. People that want to support original artists rather than knock-off merchants too, I'd think.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 01:51
|
|
|
Blinkz0rz posted:Well, the people who do the original work for one. People that want to support original artists rather than knock-off merchants too, I'd think. Thats nice, I don't care. You should save the world though, have at it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 01:52
|
|
|
Blinkz0rz posted:Well, the people who do the original work for one. People that want to support original artists rather than knock-off merchants too, I'd think. Its picking colours from a pantone flipbook, it's hardly art. hell you could poo poo out a hundred colour ways from a palette generator and they'd look better than some of ugly rear end sets that get hyped up from gmk
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 01:58
|
|
|
Blinkz0rz posted:Well, the people who do the original work for one. People that want to support original artists rather than knock-off merchants too, I'd think. …artists? Are we not talking about keyboard colors? What even is happening here?
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 01:58
|
|
|
redeyes posted:Thats nice, I don't care. You should save the world though, have at it. Colorways do seem overrated, but fuckin' Y I K E S. I don't know who you're performing for, my dude, but Something Awful circa 2011 called and wants their edgy boi back. ijyt posted:Its picking colours from a pantone flipbook, it's hardly art. lol 
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 02:05
|
|
|
ijyt posted:Its picking colours from a pantone flipbook, it's hardly art. "I don't know why you're charging so much. My kid could make something like this!"
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 02:10
|
|
|
Is this what trolling SH/SC looks like? Is anyone charging extra for putting e.g., neon yellow caps on their keyboards because it’s “art?” Baffling stuff here.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 02:15
|
|
|
Loucks posted:Is this what trolling SH/SC looks like? Is anyone charging extra for putting e.g., neon yellow caps on their keyboards because it’s “art?” No one's talking about random garbage off of aliexpress. I'm referring to the small batch artisan caps of actual quality. You seem to be under the impression that those two are the same but they are absolutely not and the companies that make knock offs of limited run caps are diluting the artist's work and affecting their bottom line.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 02:23
|
|
|
And furthermore
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 02:29
|
|
|
Artisan keycaps have artistic merit. Popping down $120 and a 1 year wait because GMK has ridiculous MOQ quotas instead of getting the same colour way for $40 (and in better PBT than the ABS they use) is just wilfully getting ripped off. Buy keycaps that you like and can afford but keep this weird gatekeeping to reddit tyvm also if you are designing keycaps and there's demand and you refuse to re-run them those keycaps deserve to get reproduced lol
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 02:30
|
|
|
I'm not faulting anyone for not keeping up with all the limited run drops that take 8+mos to fulfill and will almost never get reproduced. if you can find a knockoff you like and can get it in a week, more power to you
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 02:38
|
|
|
ijyt posted:Artisan keycaps have artistic merit. Popping down $120 and a 1 year wait because GMK has ridiculous MOQ quotas instead of getting the same colour way for $40 (and in better PBT than the ABS they use) is just wilfully getting ripped off. I essentially agree with this, but I would say that the knock-off sets I have purchased are usually inferior quality in terms of the consistency of legend placement and I have seen a few imperfectly-centered stems. Very small margins though. However, as you say, you can usually find a design in a material or profile that it was not originally available in, and at a much more accessible price.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 03:00
|
|
|
I spent a bunch pre-ordering a RAMA keycap set because it’s a new profile and I’m always looking for a better one.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 05:04
|
|
|
Opioid posted:I spent a bunch pre-ordering a RAMA keycap set because it’s a new profile and I’m always looking for a better one. Sorry, RAMA is cancelled too. He stole the idea of "brown". https://twitter.com/apiarykeyboards/status/1458478504249417729
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 06:15
|
|
|
GnarlyCharlie4u posted:Seeking out clones of keycap sets is definitely lovely though. I also forgot to mention the work designers do making renders. Yes, picking colors is easy. But then why do manufacturers rip off sets? Why don't they just pick their own colors? Because they're trying to capitalize on all the other hard work someone has put into a set. Yes, the groupbuy format sucks and it's actually not a great idea when you consider the community is frequently trusting anonymous people from the internet to deliver what they collectively paid tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce. Unfortunately we at a point where the hobby is at odds with the commercial side of things because lots (probably the majority now) just want a neat looking keyboard and they want it now and they want it as cheap as possible. Nobody is knocking that. That's the dream, and there are a not insignificant number of people working with new manufacturers to make this happen. The community wasn't half the size it is now just 2 years ago, which is cool, but unfortunately also means that there's a lot of growing pains. redeyes posted:You mean lack of ethics? Why would I care? I just buy keyboards I like. No flex, more like apathy. ijyt posted:Buy keycaps that you like and can afford but keep this weird gatekeeping to reddit tyvm One thing that always intrigued me though was the separation between how groupbuy keycaps and keyboards are perceived. Look back a couple pages and you'll find a pretty neat keyboard design that was shared by one of our very own forums posters. That design was the result of Exit Strategy's hard work and interest in this hobby. What is it about the keyboard design that makes it so different from keycap design? Is it the price / timeframe? Is it the perception that running a keycap GB is so much easier than doing the same for a keyboard? Is it not "gatekeeping" that this hasn't been posted to the masses? He only took the first 5 responders. Keycaps are usually unlimited.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 09:10
|
|
|
If you're comparing keycaps to keyboard design then I'm not going to waste time arguing in bad faith with you lmao.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 09:20
|
|
|
you fools, you loving nincompoops, only I get to decide what art is and what it is not
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 13:18
|
|
|
Keyboards peaked at the Model F 122, now it's all just trash.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 13:23
|
|
|
Spectracide posted:Sorry, RAMA is cancelled too. He stole the idea of "brown". getting mixed messages here https://twitter.com/apiarykeyboards/status/1460811678191214597 "just make your own design, there are nearly infinite granular permutations" but also "RAMA stole that design even though the legend colour, font, profile and novelties are all different" obviously hk gamings behavior is inexcusable, making 1:1 clones of GB sets before they even deliver, but people should probably be allowed to make brown keycaps even though someone else did brown keycaps two years ago repiv fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Nov 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 13:24
|
|
|
repiv posted:getting mixed messages here If you're gonna disagree with apiary at least have the courtesy of using their actual comparison tweet rather than a vague strawman https://twitter.com/apiarykeyboards/status/1458499372912578560?s=21
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 13:35
|
|
|
Imagine getting mad about any of this when there are actual problems in the world. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 14:27
|
|
|
ijyt posted:If you're comparing keycaps to keyboard design then I'm not going to waste time arguing in bad faith with you lmao. I mean, there's a giant amount of info right at the beginning of his post that covers just a small slice of what keycap designers have to go through to get their set made these days, here, I'll even repost it for you: "Designers work hard to put together a set and make a group buy happen. Picking colors and legends is only a small part of designing a set. They also create interest checks where they can get feedback which they incorporate into the design and kitting of a set. Kitting a set to include keys for various layouts is actually a lot of hard work just by itself. Trying to find a balance between price and compatibility is difficult. But then having to shuffle the keys around between different kits (novelties, spacebars, macro, numpad, 40's, ergo/ortho, alt mods/alphas, etc) to optimize for pricing is very hard work and takes a considerable amount of time. Not to mention kitting is different for all the different profiles / manufacturers out there because of the requirements they have as well as their pricing. Moreover, set designers are almost always the ones coordinating the group buys as well, even if they're not the ones taking the money. They have to communicate with the vendors and manufacturers, organize the contract, give updates on a set's progress, do the color matching (sometimes MANY times over), and deal with any problems that arise. It's a very hands-on iterative process. To have someone else swoop in and steal the finalized design and then offer it in a poorly manufactured dye-sub knock off with only a single base kit is beyond insulting." Admittedly, when I first had interest in designing a keycap set of my own, I thought it was going to be pretty straightforward and easy. After about a five minute conversation about kitting with a friend, I shelved the idea entirely. To give people just a very rough and broad example about how designing a keycap set works these days, here's a broad overview: You've picked out some colors that you think are going to look nice together, and you've hopefully done some due diligence to see that they aren't close to some other set that someone else has run (or else people are going to be Real Mad on the internet). You've put them together in Photoshop and made a pretty picture of them on your favorite keyboard -- a TKL. Everything looks great! Except you've used RGB values for your colors, and manufacturers don't use RGB. So now you have to go find color chips, usually starting at $100, but typically $200+ for most sets. Great, you're looking at color chips, and you've found a couple that look nice, so you look up GMKs (your favorite manufacturer) stock colors to see if they have them, and you realize you bought *coated* color chips instead of *uncoated* color chips (which can make your GMK Bread look like GMK Spongecake https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107200.0 ) so that's another $100+. Once you've established some colors that are actually used by the manufacturer instead of your poorly color-calibrated monitor, you need to figure out the kitting for the set. As an aside, kitting, itself, is practically an entire science. The common misconception is that kits are standard -- they aren't. Every manufacturer has MOQ, and how that MOQ gets reached is different. Some require an overall MOQ based on the number of keys produced, some have a MOQ where all of the kits (e.g. numpad kit, base kit, etc.) need to reach a certain number before all of them get made, and some have a more individual MOQ where if one kit fails to reach MOQ it won't get produced but the other kits can be. On top of that, each manufacturer has different prices based on those MOQs as well. You can fairly accurately judge how well someone thinks their GMK set is going to sell just by looking at the base kit price. So once you've gone over how your favorite manufacturer MOQs for sets, you need to design the kits for your own set. You like TKLs, and that's very standard, so you've got the basic 87 keys -- except some TKLs have 88 keys, so you add an F13 in there as well. Or should it be a novelty instead? 75% are also popular, so you want to include some extra keys in R1,R2, R3 profile for those -- but what should they be? PGup, PGdn, and Del are pretty popular -- but which row profile should they be? What about Home? or End? Which row profiles should they be? Do you bloat your base kit by creating all of them in R1, R2, R3 or just certain ones? If your set uses a color fade from top-to-bottom that adds another layer of complexity. What about Alice-style users that are very popular nowadays -- do you add an extra B? Do you add spacebars to the kit? And for people that like numpads, do you add that to the base kit as well, or break it out? Do you do modifier color pipe (|\)? Some people love the aesthetic, but some people don't. By adding keys to the base kit, you increase the cost of the basekit itself and then risk not hitting MOQ. And people really like lower prices, and they don't like paying for things they aren't going to use. If, say, you break the numpad kit out in to its own kit, and you're running with a manufacturer that requires all of the kits to sell a certain number for them to produce any of the kits, you now have to hope you can price something like a numpad kit low enough to get people to buy it just so your set will get made. Now extrapolate all of that out for the hundreds, if not thousands of possible keyboard sizes including 40%, 60%, 65%, 75%, ortholinear, alice, arisu, 1800, full-size, etc. and then the the different layouts for all of them including ANSI, ISO, HHKB, JIS et. al. So you've got to balance the compatibility for all of the different keyboard layouts out there, with your assumed target audience, kit to make sure you can hit a price point that people will like, and make sure that the kits hit MOQ so that your set will actually get made -- all while making sure your design and colors look good with all of those different options. On top of all of that, you're probably also designing novelties that need to be unique, interesting, and legible without being too detailed. If you're running with a manufacturer like GMK, you now need to make sure: none of your novelties look like any of the novelties that have ever been made by GMK, and that they're not obvious references to an IP (these are recent changes that now affect every set being made with GMK). Oh, and you need to kit those, too. Then on top of that you need to reach out to vendors across the world because you've added ISO support for your set and you want most of the ISO users to be able to buy from a local vendor instead of paying exorbitant prices in shipping from another country, and because it's just not feasible to fit 500 boxes of keycaps in your apartment and ship them out to everybody. The vendors you talk to are also going to want to take a cut for their work -- which either cuts in to your bottom line, or raises the price of the set -- making MOQ more difficult in the process. You then have to coordinate with all of them about your conversations with the manufacturer, their timelines, and the whole color matching process that is an ordeal in and of itself. So yes, on the surface, designing a keycap set appears to be pretty trivial, but it is a LOT of work. And even moreso now where you have to really consider running with GMK and waiting almost three years for your set, or going with another manufacturer that is less-popular and will sell a lot worse when it runs -- if at all. Gearman fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Nov 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 15:05
|
|
|
TLDR. Is it okay if I just use a white/beige keyboard? I know it was stolen from the 80s, but maybe 80s colorway artists don't care at this point?
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 15:24
|
|
|
Loucks posted:Imagine getting mad about any of this when there are actual problems in the world. Imagine only being able to think about one thing at any given time
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 15:26
|
|
|
Loucks posted:Is this what trolling SH/SC looks like? redeyes posted:TLDR. Lmao, no, this is. I appreciate all of you and have no skin in this argument whatsoever, but if you're giving this guy a pass just because he's on your side while calling the people who disagree with you trolls, you're every bit as ridiculous as you think the posters you're lampooning are.  This whole slapfight is silly as hell because there are valid points on both sides but (aside from the few who are making earnest effortposts) you're all refusing to leave any room for that in your arguments. Bunch o' nerds just acting like the other side are complete infidels/mentally disabled for daring to disagree with your obviously correct stance. Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Nov 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 16:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 22:41 |
|
|
and you're really just scratching the surface. One of the things I appreciate about 40's is that for the most part, people are just happy if they get physical compatibility. However you step over into XFRFRLTKLWTFBBQ land and people will lose their goddamn minds over mod colored pipe / tilde and a lack of F13. Unsinkabear posted:Lmao, no, this is. I appreciate all of you and have no skin in this argument whatsoever, but if you're giving this guy a pass just because he's on your side while calling the people who disagree with you trolls, you're every bit as ridiculous as you think the posters you're lampooning are. I mean I tried to concede the valid points, and there's definitely more room for discussion. Of course people want good keycaps for less money and delivered in a reasonable amount of time. Like I said, that's every hobbyist/enthusiast's dream. I have absolutely no problem with people buying cheap keycaps that arrive quickly. I really hope people see from this conversation that keycap design really isn't as easy as some purport. You shouldn't get a pass to write off someone's hard work as trivial and deserving of theft just because it's terribly inconvenient for you. GnarlyCharlie4u fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Nov 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 17:30
|
|
