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2house2fly posted:From what I remember in the book, the Bene Gesserit have spent hundreds of years sowing a "chosen one" prophecy among a bunch of different cultures, so that when the chosen one they're trying to create comes along a ton of people will be primed to accept him The Missionaria Protectiva. Exactly as you said, two thousand years earlier they hung out on Arrakis saying stuff like “The Saviours Mother will come unto you and say ‘touch the tip top, get the snip snop’: when Jessica rocks up with Paul, she simply has to say ‘if the top of the tip you touch, the snop of the snip shall surely follow’. Cue wild surmise from the peasantry,
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Nov 18, 2021 19:56
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Baronash posted:They were intentionally vague on what measured the Bene Gesserit had used with the Fremen. The impression I formed was that the Lisan al Gaib was a wholly Fremen myth and the Bene Gesserit had just been priming the pump for the Fremen to accept Paul as the prophesied leader. That's a cool twist though. Ah that totally makes sense, and the details don't really matter as long as people get the right vibe. I've been so familiar and so close to this material for years its kind of hard to get a feel for how new viewers are going to interpret things.
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Nov 18, 2021 20:04
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Torquemada posted:‘touch the tip top, get the snip snop’: I don't remember circumcision being a major theme of the movie but I guess it tracks
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Nov 18, 2021 20:08
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It's in the Orange Catholic Torah I think
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Nov 18, 2021 20:21
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Torquemada posted:The Missionaria Protectiva. Exactly as you said, two thousand years earlier they hung out on Arrakis saying stuff like “The Saviours Mother will come unto you and say ‘touch the tip top, get the snip snop’: when Jessica rocks up with Paul, she simply has to say ‘if the top of the tip you touch, the snop of the snip shall surely follow’. Cue wild surmise from the peasantry, I really enjoyed this in the book because Jessica has to try and figure out how the myths have been morphed over time by the Fremen. Not sure how to transfer that to film, though.
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Nov 18, 2021 20:24
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AFewBricksShy posted:Has anyone in this thread seen the movie and not read any of the books or seen the previous filmed versions? I watched blind to books, but having watched any other version of Dune and therefore knowing the basic plot is also cheating WRT this assignment.
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Nov 18, 2021 20:26
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I just remembered the movie makes a big deal about Jessica hiring the Shadout Mapes and then she's in one other scene but she's dead.
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Nov 18, 2021 20:54
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WarMECH posted:I just remembered the movie makes a big deal about Jessica hiring the Shadout Mapes and then she's in one other scene but she's dead. Her function is to posit that Paul is a super savior. Prove that he is a super savior. Demonstrate Leto’s compassion before his betrayal.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:02
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After watching more than once, I really appreciate which scenes and moments they chose and it really does a lot with not a lot of time (the film doesn’t feel like 2.5 hours), but I think they filmed a lot more than they decided to put into the theatrical cut. It’s sucks that DV is averse to recuts, because I think more time to develop the side characters would have given everything more room to breathe. Maybe I’m spoiled by TV.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:11
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She's also passing information to/from Stilgar's group. She alerts Jessica that there's a traitor in the household.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:12
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Much like BR49, I could easily could take another... let me check my notes... infinite amount of extra minutes in an extended cut
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Nov 18, 2021 21:18
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After watching the movie I re-read the book. I really feel like they missed a natural script que by not ending the film with Jamis's funeral and the Muad'Dib naming ceremony. That's going to feel super weird coming at the start of Part 2. Also, I wish that they had included the Arakeen dinner party scene in the film. That was such a fun little set piece, and does a lot to flesh out the setting and the plot.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:20
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jeeves posted:Much like BR49, I could easily could take another... let me check my notes... infinite amount of extra minutes in an extended cut Over a long enough timeframe the whole Replicant situation leads to the Butlerian Jihad leads to DUNC. The Villeneuverse
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Nov 18, 2021 21:21
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I'm willing to believe Villeneue when he says there's no extended cut but at least give us a BR/UHD/etc. with all the deleted scenes. I'm sure they were cut for a very good reason but gimme.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:21
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TheMadMilkman posted:I really enjoyed this in the book because Jessica has to try and figure out how the myths have been morphed over time by the Fremen. Not sure how to transfer that to film, though. I like that the movie preserves the part where Mapes is presenting the crysknife and Jessica almost fucks it all up by saying that it is a "maker of death", but Mapes interrupts right after she says "maker", saving Jessica from that mistake.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:41
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jeeves posted:Much like BR49, I could easily could take another... let me check my notes... infinite amount of extra minutes in an extended cut BR2049 is the only movie I saw two days in a row in the theatre. I waited about 2 weeks to see Dune again and I took some mushrooms but they were super weak, in effect they felt like a microdose which made me much more focused but didn't give me any mystical visions.
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Nov 18, 2021 21:49
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WarMECH posted:I just remembered the movie makes a big deal about Jessica hiring the Shadout Mapes and then she's in one other scene but she's dead. She also opens the door when Paul is playing peekaboo with the hunter-killer
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Nov 18, 2021 22:09
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Failed Imagineer posted:Over a long enough timeframe the whole Replicant situation leads to the Butlerian Jihad leads to DUNC. The Villeneuverse But where do the spiders come into play?
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Nov 19, 2021 02:08
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:But where do the spiders come into play? Look man, the Tleilaxu will make pretty much anything
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Nov 19, 2021 02:11
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uXs posted:For a planet where 'scorching heat' is the prevailing temperature, there was surprisingly little sweating going on. In a really dry desert, your moisture evaporates before it can bead into sweat. Arrakis is an extremely dry desert.
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Nov 19, 2021 04:55
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AFewBricksShy posted:Has anyone in this thread seen the movie and not read any of the books or seen the previous filmed versions? I'm familiar with the Lynch adaptation and I read the book a long time ago, so I know the general thrust of the story. Still, I don't think it was hard to follow, even taking the movie as it's own separate thing. The protags family takes over the rule of an important planet, the previous owners don't like that and they have a rivalry with the protags family, so they launch a sneak attack and take the planet back. There's simultaneously a plotline about the protag being specially bred and trained, and part of his gifts seem to be oracular visions of the future. The visions foretell that he will lead a great slaughter, but oracular visions being what they are, it's hard to tell how trustworthy this is. And that's about it. I think it would be pretty hard to get confused on those points, even if you don't know anything about the story at all. There's a whole bunch of other details, but they don't really add up to much yet. And that leads me to the place where I DO get left wanting with this movie, which is that the trajectory of everything is still completely up in the air. Maybe that's where people are feeling lost. I dunno. But that is where the movie loses me. At the imperial-politics level it's clear WHAT happened, but it's not clear how it fits into the current political paradigm, and because of that it's unclear what is going to happen next. Are the Harkonnen in trouble for committing space-treason? Does the emperor look like an impotent rear end in a top hat for not doing anything about what happened? Is the rest of the imperium just too dumb to figure this plot out, or is there some byzantine space-law that gives them a pass? With the Bene Gesserit it's clear that they have set the stage for some major changes to take place, but it's unclear if Paul serves their goals or fucks them up. Hell, it's unclear if Jessica serves them or fucks them up. What does "better future" mean for the BG? Do they want everyone to be "human"? Do they want the holy war? Is that the way to a "better future"? How could I even tell if we start to get off their path? What's the point where they have to step in and start voicing and weirding people? Maybe that's where we already are. Hard to tell. At the ground level, there seems to be an ongoing popular revolt with the Fremen, but it's not clear if Paul wants to join it, hide in it, subvert it, or destroy it. We can read the tea leaves of his actions and words throughout the film, but they point in pretty much every direction. Towards the end of the movie he says, "The Emperor sent us to this place, and my father came. Not for spice, not for the riches, but for the strength of your people. My road leads into the desert." This can be read in a bunch of different ways. Maybe he sees the Fremen as tools to enact his vengeance, or maybe he sees wisdom in their ways and wants to become one of them. Maybe he sees them as replacement Duncans that can protect him and give him succor, or maybe they are a liability, a potential tool of the empire and too dangerous to exist. It's a fine place to be for mid-story tension, but for the end of a film it's pretty lousy. I guess I think the story is easy to follow because it doesn't really go anywhere. A lot of stuff has happened, but it feels like we're still at the start of the journey. The sleeper hasn't woke yet.
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Nov 19, 2021 06:37
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Ahem. "It's okay to not have every single question answered in a movie. We didn't need to know when Thufir Hawat last dookied a scooter, the audience is allowed to think."
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Nov 19, 2021 06:58
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And what thoughts has the movie left you with?
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Nov 19, 2021 07:23
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aga9-1RwzDw
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Nov 19, 2021 09:30
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Ej posted:And what thoughts has the movie left you with? how kickin' rad it is
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Nov 19, 2021 09:31
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Noam Chomsky posted:how kickin' rad it is Well said, Prof Chomsky
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Nov 19, 2021 10:49
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Xiahou Dun posted:Ahem. Thufir Hawat is a blutat of House Advil, and has many strange powers, such as long division
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Nov 19, 2021 11:41
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yes thank you, this is how i prefer to begin my walk to the train
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Nov 19, 2021 15:59
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Ej posted:At the imperial-politics level it's clear WHAT happened, but it's not clear how it fits into the current political paradigm, and because of that it's unclear what is going to happen next. Are the Harkonnen in trouble for committing space-treason? Does the emperor look like an impotent rear end in a top hat for not doing anything about what happened? Is the rest of the imperium just too dumb to figure this plot out, or is there some byzantine space-law that gives them a pass? I thought the movie made it pretty clear that the emperor approved of the Harkonnen's actions by letting them use his special elite troops, and keeping the rest of the noble houses from finding out is why they had to ensure there were no survivors. My dad went and saw this. His only knowledge going in was that the 1984 movie exists, the book is one of my all-time favorites, and I thought this was a good adaptation. He enjoyed it a lot and didn't find it confusing at all.
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Nov 19, 2021 16:30
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PeterWeller posted:I thought the movie made it pretty clear that the emperor approved of the Harkonnen's actions by letting them use his special elite troops, and keeping the rest of the noble houses from finding out is why they had to ensure there were no survivors. Because your dad actually watches movies instead of "watching" them, as in letting them play in the background and looking up sometimes while he scrolls through a dead comedy forum.
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Nov 19, 2021 17:14
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Noam Chomsky posted:Because your dad actually watches movies instead of "watching" them, as in letting them play in the background and looking up sometimes while he scrolls through a dead comedy forum. I think this is the reason a lot of people familiar with the material haven’t clicked with it.
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Nov 19, 2021 17:30
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PeterWeller posted:I thought the movie made it pretty clear that the emperor approved of the Harkonnen's actions by letting them use his special elite troops, and keeping the rest of the noble houses from finding out is why they had to ensure there were no survivors. It's obvious to us that the emperor and Harkonnen are in cahoots, the question is how obvious it is to the other houses. The Harkonnen controlling Arrakis is in direct violation of an imperial decree. Is the plan for the them to pretend that nothing happened at all and the Atreides are still alive and in control of Arrakis? That seems like a plan that's doomed to fail, since the BG already know about the whole plot and there are smugglers and such.
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Nov 19, 2021 17:41
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Ej posted:It's obvious to us that the emperor and Harkonnen are in cahoots, the question is how obvious it is to the other houses. The Harkonnen controlling Arrakis is in direct violation of an imperial decree. Is the plan for the them to pretend that nothing happened at all and the Atreides are still alive and in control of Arrakis? That seems like a plan that's doomed to fail, since the BG already know about the whole plot and there are smugglers and such. Offing other nobles to take their poo poo is all above board. Presumably the other houses are supposed to go "ah well if the Baron could just take back Arrakis like that I guess Leto wasn't such hot poo poo after all". The big secret is that the emperor isn't supposed to be getting involved. The BG know, but they're on like a whole other level of plotting. They probably have even worse secrets to keep from the Landsraad.
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Nov 19, 2021 18:01
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yeah this was the big thing when the attack comes, Duncan, Paul, and Jessica at different points go directly to Liet-Kynes and are like "yo, Sardukar are here, that means the Emperor not only sanctioned this but is actively involved when he isn't supposed to be. As an agent for him, you can report this to the Landsraad and as the only Atreides survivors we can still rally the other houses over this bullshit" it's just that Liet-Kynes and all the Fremen are like "what the gently caress do we care about Great Houses and far off planets? We've got our own problems to deal with, like trying to grow plants and other ecological things that the Emperor sure as poo poo doesn't want to know about"
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Nov 19, 2021 19:10
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Look I just want every single detail exhaustively spoon-fed to me, even and especially stuff that is being saved because it’s better served in the second part, but simultaneously I’m gonna piss and whine about everything actually shown in the movie that I’m not going to pay attention to. Have I also mentioned how it fails to capture the exact same feeling as another movie that I saw when I was 10 because I can’t rub this one on my naked body to make me feel young again? I am an intelligent film viewer.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:28
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Noam Chomsky posted:Because your dad actually watches movies instead of "watching" them, as in letting them play in the background and looking up sometimes while he scrolls through a dead comedy forum. Thank you for saying nice things about my dad. He's a pretty swell dad. Ej posted:It's obvious to us that the emperor and Harkonnen are in cahoots, the question is how obvious it is to the other houses. The Harkonnen controlling Arrakis is in direct violation of an imperial decree. Is the plan for the them to pretend that nothing happened at all and the Atreides are still alive and in control of Arrakis? That seems like a plan that's doomed to fail, since the BG already know about the whole plot and there are smugglers and such. I think the movie makes it clear that there's a coverup going on and so it's not at all obvious to the other houses. But to be fair, I know the book very well and can definitely be overreading the film based on my book knowledge.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:33
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I'm not sure why but up until I read this thread I had no idea that the spider was eating out of the bowl, I had assumed that it was making GBS threads into it. Not really sure why that didn't occur to me, it was dark ok.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:37
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Xiahou Dun posted:Look I just want every single detail exhaustively spoon-fed to me, even and especially stuff that is being saved because it’s better served in the second part, but simultaneously I’m gonna piss and whine about everything actually shown in the movie that I’m not going to pay attention to. who are you even talking to
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Nov 19, 2021 19:39
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Ej posted:It's obvious to us that the emperor and Harkonnen are in cahoots, the question is how obvious it is to the other houses. The Harkonnen controlling Arrakis is in direct violation of an imperial decree. Is the plan for the them to pretend that nothing happened at all and the Atreides are still alive and in control of Arrakis? That seems like a plan that's doomed to fail, since the BG already know about the whole plot and there are smugglers and such. The other houses may well suspect that the emperor was involved, but without any evidence(or any idea who else the emperor might be in cahoots with) all they can really do is plot and scheme and tentatively feel out alliances with the other houses, which they were already doing anyway. The Harkonnens go back to ruling Arrakis, except now they're weakened and owe the emperor big time
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Nov 19, 2021 20:28
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uXs posted:For a planet where 'scorching heat' is the prevailing temperature, there was surprisingly little sweating going on. Have you ever been to a desert? If its hot and dry enough it evaporates almost instantly.
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Nov 19, 2021 21:26
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