Ignatius M. Meen posted:the same person merk wanted dead before his flip, and who you now want dead hopefully before yours SPEAKING OF WHICH, merk and binus were pushing me before the missing N2 kill, so that theory of yours is bogus too
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Nov 19, 2021 08:09
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Toalpaz posted:alright yami, sure. just claim in masonry later. Private like. Sheesh. toal I understand you can't really trust me but promise me you won't take yami to lylo after my flip
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Nov 19, 2021 08:12
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holy poo poo meen has charged their phone or something.
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Nov 19, 2021 09:07
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Toalpaz posted:my masons are dropping like flies. suspicious huh.
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Nov 19, 2021 09:12
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Toalpaz posted:Come on, 'theres gotta be scum on the RF lunch' and 'im NOT CASING anynyan' lol saw this on the read through. 10/10
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Nov 19, 2021 09:17
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yami if you're scum I am gonna rock your world I had a thought that I couldn't piece together and ended up stating a different theory earlier, but now while trying to sleep and failing I've realized how it fits together for the record, I am Chucky, VT, which I'm gonna state here so you can't claim I'm camouflaging poo poo in my theory of what went down the night before binus roleblocked me N2 (which would have no risk of failure because I CAN'T DO ANYTHING AT NIGHT ANYWAY) and figured that he stopped the SK kill meanwhile, the actual SK hit Hum, which caused their BP to trigger, which made them start their gambit to try and catch the SK out the only question this leaves is what the gently caress Hum was thinking by not using their dayvig, but I'm betting this is what happened to the missing kill
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Nov 19, 2021 09:28
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:yami if you're scum I am gonna rock your world and of course, the cherry on top is that you started agreeing with binus after the missing kill happened, and are now just as artificially pushing my lunch ##vote yami
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Nov 19, 2021 09:32
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so binus was pushing meen as an alternative to merk it looks like on my re-read:b-minus1 posted:I like meen deadmeat and beet for scum b-minus1 posted:What do you make of merks meen case a couple that stood out. there wasn't a lot lol it's binus. merk also pushing this d2. clearly. binus took it into day 3 as well. is this just the 'stick on one target and tunnel' play? a few others of interest, binus's town list, meen rates a mention again. b-minus1 posted:Yami is once again the voice of reason. Yami Toal, Maerlyn and bif are confirmed town imo. Two kills n1, one kill n1. Lets lunch humalong and then regardless of his alignment which will almost certainly be nontown, we lunch meen tomorrow. b-minus1 posted:##vote bif and we get meen tomorrow switched to bif there after the tracker claim i think it was. i'll keep thinking about this overnight.
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Nov 19, 2021 09:35
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:yami if you're scum I am gonna rock your world There is absolutely no goddamn way that Hum would not dayvidge me lmfao
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Nov 19, 2021 09:36
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hambeet posted:holy poo poo meen has charged their phone or something. I get charged when I have a case that sticks out as more than just pings
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Nov 19, 2021 09:40
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Bifauxnen posted:There is absolutely no goddamn way that Hum would not dayvidge me lmfao do you have a better explanation for why he self-destructed like that?
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Nov 19, 2021 09:42
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votefinder posted:
review of day 1 vote. no real movement. bif, yami, meen, toalpaz and me left. toalpaz is in the clear i feel. binus kept throwing shade at their mechanics of their case around merk too. i feel good about toalpaz binus called bif town at one point but was pretty happy to flip to her when the tracker claim was brought out by hum. however hum was town and wouldn't have blatantly lied about seeing bif? however that conflicts with maerlyn flipped tracker's results. and the bus driver was dead. actually this wrinkles my brain. hum flipped bulletproof...? so possibly other powers that weren't divulged... i'll come back to this later i think. merk and binus seemed to have meen up as an alternate to merk. either they're flipping on their scum bud early, or they think that was an easy case to fake on the 'buried vote mid post' and stuck to it. so i'm not feeling meen at this stage. so that leaves bif and yami (from my point of view, obvs) and i think i'll have to come back to that later because i'm literally to fatigued to even think about that. i think i want to look at humalong again to see what else he said.
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Nov 19, 2021 09:42
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Look on the bright side, Retro Futurist: you can't be accused of lurking anymore!
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oh i'm not saying the day 1 vote is gospel, i just think it's an interesting data point. i might scrap it completely too. who knows.
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Nov 19, 2021 09:43
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Bifauxnen posted:There is absolutely no goddamn way that Hum would not dayvidge me lmfao i agree with this. i liked the theory, but bif is right. humalong would not have sat on a day vig and played a gambit claim about bif instead. he would have just shot her.
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Nov 19, 2021 09:44
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:do you have a better explanation for why he self-destructed like that? I don't think anyone has a good explanation for why he'd pull that poo poo as town. But once it didn't take? No way he'd keep sitting on that vidge even on his way out.
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Nov 19, 2021 09:45
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so that suggests to me his bullet proof didn't trigger. he also would not have made poo poo up. so why the tracking of bif which contradicts maer?
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Nov 19, 2021 09:46
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I have a brief moment so I'll just put that out there that this is probably Mylo (If we don't hit SK or scum, we'll end up 1 SK + 1 scum vs 2 town) so we should probably full claim.
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Nov 19, 2021 09:49
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the meta read you both have sure as gently caress would make more sense to me, but then that feeds into Yami's push about where the N2 kill went. SK hitting Hum makes sense, we know he had a stack of BP; if binus had jailed the SK for N2, it wouldn't explain why they died N3 since presumably they'd keep jailing the same person, and there wasn't any sort of limit I saw in binus' flip about the way they could jail people
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Nov 19, 2021 09:54
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Yeah Meen's gotta be the SK hey
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Nov 19, 2021 09:58
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Bifauxnen posted:Yeah Meen's gotta be the SK hey if I were I'd have killed binus N1
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Nov 19, 2021 10:08
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Meen, if you aren't SK, who do you think would be?
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Nov 19, 2021 10:14
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*A tumbleweed blows by*
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Nov 19, 2021 10:35
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:the meta read you both have sure as gently caress would make more sense to me, but then that feeds into Yami's push about where the N2 kill went. SK hitting Hum makes sense, we know he had a stack of BP; if binus had jailed the SK for N2, it wouldn't explain why they died N3 since presumably they'd keep jailing the same person, and there wasn't any sort of limit I saw in binus' flip about the way they could jail people look grandpa beet's semi annual mafia game means i keep forgetting role functions. would jailing a night kill target protect them?
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Nov 19, 2021 12:12
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i'd feel deadmeet for last scum and sk mmm let me think more.
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Nov 19, 2021 12:13
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:
I'm sorry meen, vanilla town aren't alerted when they're protected or blocked, because they take no action. Usually. There's no way you should know for certain. 
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Nov 19, 2021 13:50
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hambeet posted:i'd feel deadmeet for last scum and sk mmm let me think more. I am sus of voo doo personally
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Nov 19, 2021 13:54
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Yami Fenrir posted:Meen, if you aren't SK, who do you think would be? I believe based on how you've been doing the same thing as binus and merk, plus how I got pings from Bif earlier in the game that it is very likely Bif. It could also be you and Bif is the last scum, but that wouldn't really matter a lot. I do not believe I've been unclear about this. I haven't looked at other options yet only 'cause nothing's stuck out more Yami Fenrir posted:*A tumbleweed blows by* I had to actually sleep eventually. self-study is cool and chill but I have to still show up for it in the morning Toalpaz posted:I'm sorry meen, vanilla town aren't alerted when they're protected or blocked, because they take no action. Usually. There's no way you should know for certain. this is why it's a theory, I don't have any proof other than Yami being suspiciously certain about binus having a good reason for pushing me after the missing N2 kill. it makes a lot more sense to me if Yami was scum with binus, and the missing night kill was attributed to a successful roleblock, than it does for Yami to try and claim that a scum case on me was actually cool and good for a third run hambeet posted:look grandpa beet's semi annual mafia game means i keep forgetting role functions. would jailing a night kill target protect them? in the one-and-only game so far I was scum in, I was a jailer and yeah, I could not jail the same person chosen for NK. can't properly say if/how that transfers to this game though as the person who ran that game isn't with us anymore gonna take a look at the last thoughts of deceased town to see if I get any other ideas
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Nov 19, 2021 14:32
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hambeet posted:i'd feel deadmeet for last scum and sk mmm let me think more. Oof. I'm just a simple creature from another dimension and am vanilla as hell.
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Nov 19, 2021 15:21
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they shortened my training today so I'm trying to make it through that before I worry about checking the reads of dead town, but I did realize there's a chance that the SK and binus targeted the same person, which would explain hum not using/having a vig and the missing kill as the jail protected the target from the SK. normally this would be an incredible stroke of bad luck that wouldn't be worth mentioning but of the alternatives it definitely makes more sense than my prior theory this doesn't change my read of Yami pushing me as of right now but it does help me pull back a bit and get better footing
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Nov 19, 2021 17:33
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Yami not claiming here is suspicious given what we already know, because it clears some things up.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:21
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Okay so here's why Meen is very likely to be the SK (long case, tl;dr at the end): Day 1 already there's surprisingly little. This is the most I can find: Ignatius M. Meen posted:I'll volunteer! late since I saw you're already going for merk tonight but hey! that probably increases the chance you'll visit me later People pointed it out before but this is an overexplained +1 vote. With a bunch of extra names tossed in that don't seem to be elaborated on, ever. It's still a vote with little to no responsibility attributable to Meen. Day 2 is pretty much a wash - really lurky but a lot of "agreed, x and y" are kinda sus statements. Not suspicious in a vacuum but keep it in mind later. Day 3 is where it gets interesting. Starting with the first vote: Ignatius M. Meen posted:so we have a tracker claim who didn't claim right away and visited the same person twice over two nights vs a VT claim who first claimed they did nothing, then claimed they only killed the person the tracker saw them visit the first night, then claimed their role and went back to their first claim saying they wanted to pull off a gambit too Again, pretty much overexplained. Also note, again, the bloodthirstiness at the end. Ignatius M. Meen posted:with the pings I got between Hum/Bif/Yami and the soft confirmation from Toal about Bif I'm pretty comfortable putting Hum at -1. ##vote Humalong Neither of these votes really attribute any responsibility to Meen. So, overall, Meen has been doing his level best to coast and look like they're contributing, but they have done pretty much no scum hunting while being on the popular votes. But... then this happens. Ignatius M. Meen posted:I like this case and it explains the pings I was getting ##vote Bif Ignatius M. Meen posted:##vote hum let's get this flip done This, right here, is where Meen hosed up, in my opinion. to begin with, it's a generic "ping", which says nothing, secondly. It's also, once again, a +1 vote. But more damnable, take a look at the progression between these posts. It starts from a "damning track" on bif. Then, we learn that Hum is lying, so they vote hum. But after a single SK case from toal, they jump right back onto bif. Literally five minutes after the case. Does this look like townie behavior to you? I don't think so. I think much rather than being convinced Meen just wanted an excuse to vote bif. The fact that we'd then execute Hum afterwards would have been a massive bonus to him. So: Let's briefly recap. So far, Meen has been coasting like crazy, went along with pretty much only easy votes and hasn't really been scumhunting at all. Day 4... is where things become much clearer. Notice how much more active Meen is all of a sudden. Whats different from the other days? Well, someone actually drew attention to it. If you actually think back on things, Meen has always been pretty quick to +1 vote stuff, hasn't he? Any way, take an actual look at what Meen is doing. Firstly he's attacking the people casing him. Ignatius M. Meen posted:yes, funny that, two scum both calling me scum and yet not going for a night kill on me. almost like they wanted me to be a tempting mislunch Secondly, he's coming out swinging: Ignatius M. Meen posted:on the one hand I'm a little annoyed that I don't have the chance to case binus on their slip yesterday that became a red-handed catch after Hum's flip, on the other this saves town some work Let's actually think about the latter for a second. Specifically, regarding Bif. Let's think back to Day 3, where we now know Maer tracked Bif nowhere. This means a) Bif was not jailed and b) B- was jailing someone. Going by their obsessive push on Meen, we can deduce that Meen was very likely to be the Jail target, on a night with a missing kill. This means in a game of 15 players, where we have two killing roles that killed twice (and no claimed vig), the killing role is probably 3p. The non-town count is probably 3 scum + 1 SK. There is a possibility of a 4th scum but I do not see it as likely (Town would be in a losing situation incredibly fast). Let's also keep in mind how bif was the alternate lunch to Merk. The combination of these factors make me thing it's very unlikely that bif is scum. So... The only thing that's left there is a remaining suspicion of Bif being the SK. Except, Bif was tracked nowhere and not jailed. Thinking critically Bif would have had to specifically withheld her kill that night. Overall, this post just reeks of a complete lack of critical thought town should have at this point of the game. But, notice what Meen is thinking VERY critically about : Ignatius M. Meen posted:nah, I think this was an idea all three of you had to see if you could talk town into lunching me Ignatius M. Meen posted:binus jailed the SK, that's how he knew Toal's theory that hum was the roleblocker was wrong and why there was no SK kill N2. try again Ignatius M. Meen posted:yami if you're scum I am gonna rock your world Ignatius M. Meen posted:the meta read you both have sure as gently caress would make more sense to me, but then that feeds into Yami's push about where the N2 kill went. SK hitting Hum makes sense, we know he had a stack of BP; if binus had jailed the SK for N2, it wouldn't explain why they died N3 since presumably they'd keep jailing the same person, and there wasn't any sort of limit I saw in binus' flip about the way they could jail people Reasons why Meen can't be the SK. That is what Meen is actually thinking about. A bunch of convoluted scenarios (Like Bif withholding the kill, or SK hitting one of the people probably on the chopping block, him not being jailed or him being the NK target) to distract from the simple one: That he was jailed. ##vote Meen tl;dr: Meen coasts a lot, joins only bandwagon votes, shows a "doesn't really care who dies" mentality, gets aggressive when pushed and far more thought and effort is put into defending themselves than hunting Scum/SK. The fact that b- was heavily signaling that they jailed Meen is basically just the cherry on top. Therefore, Meen = SK or at least scum.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:21
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Yami Fenrir posted:Therefore, Meen = SK or at least scum. Don't oversell it, meen has to be sk or town. It makes no sense for scum to bus and jail meen.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:24
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Toalpaz posted:Don't oversell it, meen has to be sk or town. It makes no sense for scum to bus and jail meen. ... so much for critically thinking myself! You are right. Anyway, I'm Doctor Jekyll, the... Doctor. I can give targets if you wish, but I'd prefer not to due to role restrictions.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:27
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were you jailed n1 or not?
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Nov 19, 2021 19:33
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Toalpaz posted:were you jailed n1 or not? I was not. It probably was Maerlyn that was jailed N1.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:34
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Which is probably why they instantly knew to target her.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:35
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You agreed with me that you would kill bif, given that it looked like Humalong knew bif was sk didn't you? You were adamant about that. I am thinking there is no reason to agree with me there yesterday when you know you probably stopped a kill.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:36
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Yami Fenrir posted:Also kill flavor seems to actually matter this game. Remember this post? I'm posted this I wanted to hint at the fact that I know something was different. Because I targeted Maerlyn N3. Scum used a Juggernaut on her. The Maer kill was very much deliberate.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:37
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Toalpaz posted:You agreed with me that you would kill bif, given that it looked like Humalong knew bif was sk didn't you? You were adamant about that. I was I would vote bif if hum was a) town and b) had a reason to know Bif was SK. Hum did not have a reason to know. Also I can tell you for sure that I did not stop a kill N2. I don't want to go into why, but I did not.
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Nov 19, 2021 19:39
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Nov 19, 2021 19:40
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