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Cleretic posted:Yeah, there's a lot of people who are bad at reading. i think you are doing too much conflating "caring about a character" with "wanting the best for them and liking them as a person", where it actually means "they are interesting" like i would say i care a great deal about the character of emet but he is a monstrous person who deserves his fate
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Nov 21, 2021 07:37
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Senator Drinksalot posted:Wasn't it implied he was a child forced into his position and then sacrified to become Zodiark's heart and in his dogged prusuit of the role of the Emissary he lost all his memories? Elidbus was an older teen or young adult who had been raised to the position because of his brilliance in the time before The Final Days. In a time of peace and stability he would've grown into a wonderful leader. All indications are that the IDEA of Zodiark was his plan, even if the actual design work was farmed out to Lahabrea. He deliberately gave himself up to be Zodiark's heart because only a young idealist could hold the idea of an all-saving God of Heroism in their mind to create it. His loss of his memories may be in part because pulling himself out of Zodiark damaged him, or the sheer weight of ages has ground his already kind of tenuous existence down. EDIT: He was basically Alphinaud. Brilliant ahead of his years, not as wise as he was intelligent, but in a position of authority in a time of crisis where others really couldn't talk him out of what turned out to be a horrible plan. Where Alphinaud survived an assassination attempt and realized you can't just build a unified kingdom in a summer in Eorzea, Elidibus made a god to save the whole world. It's all about the magnitude of the fuckup and the fallout of it. Gearhead fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Nov 21, 2021 |
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Nov 21, 2021 07:39
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Gearhead posted:EDIT: He was basically Alphinaud. Brilliant ahead of his years, not as wise as he was intelligent, but in a position of authority in a time of crisis where others really couldn't talk him out of what turned out to be a horrible plan. Where Alphinaud survived an assassination attempt and realized you can't just build a unified kingdom in a summer in Eorzea, Elidibus made a god to save the whole world. It's all about the magnitude of the fuckup and the fallout of it. yeah in addition to this and the points I made on the last page, he's very explicitly Alphinaud based on this interview. Yoshi-P posted:[W]e tried to make Elidibus easier to understand as a character by projecting him onto a particular someone who supports the Warrior of Light. I'll leave it up to everyone's imagination as to who we projected Elidibus on, though. Between the dialogue parallels, the the similar set-up, and Yoshi-P all but saying it*, it seems pretty clear that at least one aspect of what's going on with Elidibus is that he's Bad End Alphinaud. *though I find this wording kind of unclear; if you're projecting Elidibus on to someone the text literally does that with the Exarch, but that doesn't require imagination from the players, and also the Exarch already has Emet as a foil. Seems to make more sense that things got slightly muddled in translation in the interview and Elidibus is kind of a projection of someone else, but that means flipping the directionality from what they explicitly have Yoshida saying in the article. e: which means he's also unukalhai because unukalhai is also alphinaud (well and also the side stuff is pretty clear that elidibus knows unukalhai is a bit of a parallel to him). as pointed out below this means he's also louisoix, so louisoix is also alphinaud. it's alphinauds all the way down. Gearhead posted:All indications are that the IDEA of Zodiark was his plan, even if the actual design work was farmed out to Lahabrea. He deliberately gave himself up to be Zodiark's heart because only a young idealist could hold the idea of an all-saving God of Heroism in their mind to create it. I don't know that this is entirely true though? at the very least we know Loghrif was the actual first Heart of Zodiark choice, though that goes almost completely unexplained. Valentin fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Nov 21, 2021 |
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Nov 21, 2021 07:47
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Alphinaud and Louisoix. I think if he were given the chance to pull a Phoenix in the same situation, he would, and I don't know if the game has fully reckoned with that yet. The Crystal Braves mess was just getting him off his high horse and to the point Louisoix was on the edge of the calamity.
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Nov 21, 2021 07:49
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Gearhead posted:Elidbus was an older teen or young adult who had been raised to the position because of his brilliance in the time before The Final Days. In a time of peace and stability he would've grown into a wonderful leader. All indications are that the IDEA of Zodiark was his plan, even if the actual design work was farmed out to Lahabrea. He deliberately gave himself up to be Zodiark's heart because only a young idealist could hold the idea of an all-saving God of Heroism in their mind to create it. His loss of his memories may be in part because pulling himself out of Zodiark damaged him, or the sheer weight of ages has ground his already kind of tenuous existence down. Yeah, we can say Elidibus was younger, but not necessarily young. What we see of people dealing with him is equally likely to be behavior of people dealing with an actual child, or the equivalent of a workplace full of 40-somethings dealing with the fresh-faced 20-something. Also, maybe worth noting: he wasn't the first choice to be the heart of Zodiark, that was Loghrif. So Zodiark isn't necessarily his idea just because he got to drive it.
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Nov 21, 2021 08:03
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Valentin posted:I don't know that this is entirely true though? at the very least we know Loghrif was the actual first Heart of Zodiark choice, though that goes almost completely unexplained. Loghrif was going to volunteer and got talked out of it. But I wonder what the resulting Zodiark would've been like, really. We know that the mindset of the summoner at the heart of the ritual greatly influences the resulting outcome... Mister Olympus posted:Alphinaud and Louisoix. I think if he were given the chance to pull a Phoenix in the same situation, he would, and I don't know if the game has fully reckoned with that yet. The Crystal Braves mess was just getting him off his high horse and to the point Louisoix was on the edge of the calamity. I think Alphinaud wouldn't try to turn himself into Phoenix, but I could see him trying to die valiantly for the sake of the world. All the Scions are basically in that frame of mind, really. Him trying to turn himself into Phoenix would require him to trust himself with that level of power, and I don't think he has that in him. He's seen what that DOES to a person and also knows he doesn't have what it takes to not be consumed by it.
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Nov 21, 2021 08:06
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but what if.......he had a twin named ........ venat
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Nov 21, 2021 08:28
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Gnossiennes posted:but what if.......he had a twin
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Nov 21, 2021 10:14
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There is Alphinaud and Bigger Alphinaud.
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Nov 21, 2021 10:50
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Ironslave posted:There is Alphinaud and Bigger Alphinaud.
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Nov 21, 2021 10:58
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Gnossiennes posted:but what if.......he had a twin 
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Nov 21, 2021 11:12
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Ultimately the purpose of Zodiark is to get dunked on.
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Nov 21, 2021 15:08
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Alphinaauud.
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Nov 21, 2021 22:03
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"It will be ours again! A world free of sorrow!" This line from the launch trailer keeps sticking in my head. I knew it sounded familiar and I finally found it where Elidibus says a very similar phrase in 5.3. That whole bit is so perplexing, why is Fandaniel going on about that if he's done with the rejoinings? What's his real game? GAH 2 more weeks can't go by fast enough
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Nov 22, 2021 01:08
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Regy Rusty posted:"It will be ours again! The lines preceding that sound close to Fandaniel, but those two definitely don't. I don't recognize who they are, but they sound like an older character.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:12
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Regy Rusty posted:"It will be ours again! Gonna own when he's lying to Zodiark to get a powerboost or something.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:14
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Onean posted:The lines preceding that sound close to Fandaniel, but those two definitely don't. I don't recognize who they are, but they sound like an older character. I thought this too, but elsewhere on the internet I've seen it pointed out that it's definitely him because in the Japanese version of the trailer it's unmistakably the same VA in both sets of lines. The English VA just seems to be going a bit more over the top. They may well be from different scenes though.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:17
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Maybe the other voice is what he sounds like in his "true" form and not when he's piloting his Asahi meat puppet?
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Nov 22, 2021 01:20
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Rhonne posted:Maybe the other voice is what he sounds like in his "true" form and not when he's piloting his Asahi meat puppet? That would make the most sense, then. They really don't sound the same.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:22
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Onean posted:The lines preceding that sound close to Fandaniel, but those two definitely don't. I don't recognize who they are, but they sound like an older character. It kinda sounds like Fourchenault?
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Nov 22, 2021 01:25
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I don't disagree that the line sounds dramatically different in English, but give the Japanese version a listen if you have doubts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zknxNR97IdA&t=198s That's definitely the same VA doing all of it so I can't imagine it would be different in English.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:26
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Galaga Galaxian posted:It kinda sounds like Fourchenault? If there's one thing I really want to happen in this next xpac, it's me punching Fourchenault. I will settle for someone else punching Fourchenault. Won't somebody please punch Fourchenault.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:30
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That line could be from a flashback to right before (or after) they summoned Zodiark. We're probably going to see some of that.
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Nov 22, 2021 01:35
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A possibility might be that Fandaniel is using his ability to wear bodies to play several different roles. What if he's playing up this cackling loon persona to Zenos because that's useful, but he's something else to someone else?
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Nov 22, 2021 01:36
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Regy Rusty posted:I don't disagree that the line sounds dramatically different in English, but give the Japanese version a listen if you have doubts: That section, and the next bit after it, is pretty different in English vs Japanese (and also French and German I think) overall.
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Nov 22, 2021 02:03
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Regy Rusty posted:I don't disagree that the line sounds dramatically different in English, but give the Japanese version a listen if you have doubts: This is one of the cases where the EN and JP trailers have completely different dialogue, including different characters. The voice at the end of the moon sequence in JP is not emet selch as well. some translations. IIRC the JP is pretty close to the DE/FR versions. code:mightygerm fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Nov 22, 2021 |
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Nov 22, 2021 02:03
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Well that FR line sure is spicy.
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Nov 22, 2021 02:35
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I mean, there are a ton of people who did not buy the idea that Fandaniel actually wants to destroy everything utterly. My own pet theory on what Fandaniel's real play has been was basically that he was looking to replace Zodiark's missing heart with something suitably powerful, like Zenos after he's level ground off an entire continent's worth of sacrifices, and then pull a Hail Mary. EDIT: Of course, I could also see him misreading the situation severely and getting killed. But what he is PLANNING is not the same as what happens when his plans encounter the unstoppable force he's working with.
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Nov 22, 2021 02:40
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sweet geek swag posted:If there's one thing I really want to happen in this next xpac, it's me punching Fourchenault. I will settle for someone else punching Fourchenault. Won't somebody please punch Fourchenault. I've instead got money on Fourchenault being the next Morally Questionable Tragic Sadboy. We're in for years of him getting fanart of watching the twins wistfully from a distance or hugging them lovingly, despite the fact that by the end of Endwalker he will have somehow racked up multiple verifiable Geneva Convention violations. Gearhead posted:I mean, there are a ton of people who did not buy the idea that Fandaniel actually wants to destroy everything utterly. I feel like at this point these people are in denial to the point where they're straight-up ignoring a lot of the text, which is gonna lead to them being... pretty mad when he keeps wanting to blow up the planet. He's been demonstrably weird, yes, but everything he's done has been consistent enough with wanting to kill the whole planet that we can't just assume he's not gonna do it. This isn't the sort of game with empty, meaningless lies, which is what Grim Fandaniel would be telling if he weren't doing that; if someone is lying they at least do it in a way that tells us things, and that's not even true of Onlyfandaniel if he's not telling the truth.
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Nov 22, 2021 03:03
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There is good chance thats all misleading. The Fandaniel like could always be him saying it, seemingly sincerely, and then mocking the sentiment.
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Nov 22, 2021 03:14
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Cleretic posted:I feel like at this point these people are in denial to the point where they're straight-up ignoring a lot of the text, which is gonna lead to them being... pretty mad when he keeps wanting to blow up the planet. There's always the possibility that he isn't telling the whole truth. Or that he's putting on an act. Who knows, really? We'll all find out in a couple of weeks.
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Nov 22, 2021 04:00
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Fandaniel definitely has an aspect to his motivations that we don't know, since we have no idea why he wants to end the world. That said, the main reason for suspecting that he has reasons beyond just being a little poo poo is mainly that he told us not to think he had any, and because he is a little poo poo we don't want to do what he said.
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Nov 22, 2021 04:09
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Rand Brittain posted:Fandaniel definitely has an aspect to his motivations that we don't know, since we have no idea why he wants to end the world. I mean, he's working for a group of people whose god eats people to create new people and new world laws. There is a certain logic to looking for the ulterior motive when one of their number shows up and goes 'MY DEATH DRIVE OUTSHINES THE SUN!'
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Nov 22, 2021 04:28
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if a guy shows up and says "i want to end the world and kill everyone and don't think about why i want to do that there is no deeper reason", then there is obviously a deeper reason
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Nov 22, 2021 05:06
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Farg posted:if a guy shows up and says "i want to end the world and kill everyone and don't think about why i want to do that there is no deeper reason", then there is obviously a deeper reason On one hand yes, on the other hand Kefka and Neceron and Exdeath and Zeromus and...
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Nov 22, 2021 05:15
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ImpAtom posted:On one hand yes, on the other hand Kefka and Neceron and Exdeath and Zeromus and... Who all get portions of the game explaining their nihilistic deathwishes.
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Nov 22, 2021 05:17
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I should say, I don't think there's no deeper reason, I think there's going to be a very good reason he wants to destroy the world. But it is going to be a reason he wants to destroy the world. There are people (not here, I should say) who outright think that he's just bald-faced lying about that and he really just wants to do the same Ascian rejoinings as all the rest. Which is just not true; too much effort has been put into setting him up that way for them to just throw it all out as 'nah, it was all lies'. Incidentally, because I bring this stuff up relatively often: most of the extremely story-stupid people I bring up are people I've seen on Reddit. I might start posting extraordinarily stupid takes I see over there, because some of it's just wild; last week I outright saw someone ask if the WoL was a dragon, and I disn't even know where they got that idea well enough to tell them they were wrong. Although the official forums do occasionally bring out some real bad-take gems, too. That's not only where I found the most vehement Emet Defender ever, who literally tried to say that all of Shadowbringers was Emet saving the world and we should all be thanking him (and also that he's not dead, as a separate thing), it's also where I found another staunch royalist, Moofia's not the only one playing the game.
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Nov 22, 2021 05:30
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I tend to take Fancy Dan at his word, but realistically there isn't a contradiction between him wanting everyone including himself to die and wanting to restore the world of the Ancients. Indeed, killing everyone in the Source in a giant sacrifice to Zodiark might be the best way to speedrun the Rejoining and the Restoration of the Ancient world all at once. Or at least Fandaniel might think it is.
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Nov 22, 2021 05:31
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Some people respond to adversity with accelerationism, and Ascians are racking up a shitload of Ls. So, ya know, gently caress it. "Torch the place on my way out" is a fine enough justification. Plus it seems the Ascians have been causing calamities but have also been holding them back to avoid another 13th situation, so maybe he's like "I want to go out with a bang and see some heavy poo poo" Also Ascians know if they kill everyone (and everything?) in the world then, many years later, everything will start over anyways because of Aether and the lifestream. Maybe he'd rather hit a big "do-over" button than let the heroes win.
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Nov 22, 2021 05:33
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I don't think grim fandango wouldn't even be entirely wrong in the hypothetical assessment of "just kill them all," the source's heroes are clearly the biggest threat to any attempted further rejoinings and just outright wiping out most if not all life would certainly remove that roadblock. Might even be a reason for the towers, gives a controlled kill switch for the apocalypse that they can turn it off after most/all sentient life on erozea's been torched so they don't have a void 2.0.
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Nov 22, 2021 06:19
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