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Kragger99 posted:Glad to see some goons say that about Dr. John. I saw one of his recent vids and it sounded like he wasn't against using Ivermectin as a treatment for covid or something, and you can imagine all the comments were "Finally! See! Big Pharma is hiding all these alternate yet working treatments!" I think he's just trying to share data he's found, but I'm getting a real "just asking questions" feeling from him, and it almost reminded me of a very polite Tucker Carlson (yup, that's an oxymoron) or something. Like he leaves open ended questions, and lets the viewer make their own assumptions, which is dangerous, as so many people are grasping for any data that fits their current views (correct or incorrect). Dr. John (who is actually a nurse with a PhD and background educating nurses, for those who haven’t viewed the “about” on his channel) seems to be to be doing a hard heel turn towards vaccine skepticism and pimping ivermectin. I followed him early on in the epidemic. Every single thumbnail and video title promotes vax skepticism now even though his is ostensibly still “pro vax”. He even had one titled “Severe disease (or illness, can’t remember which) after vaccination” which was actually about the incidence of BREAKTHROUGH severe illness after being vaxxed versus not, and NOT about disease or complications CAUSED by vaccination as the title would suggest. 99 percent of the commenters obviously never watched the video and took it to support their antivax stance. Seems pretty clear to me that he started to get a lot more wingnut clicks when he began posting vids about ivermectin and has realized that’s where the youtube eyeballs and money are and has shifted his channel in that direction. He’s currently straddling a weird line where he’s supposedly in favor of vaccine AND therapeutics (ivermectin) but every single video seems to be leaning towards vax skepticism. Also against him: He was big promoting the early Israeli data suggesting “natural immunity” (that acquired from having had covid) was superior to vaccine immunity, but has failed to comment on any of a number of different studies/data since suggesting the opposite. His analysis of the critiques of data supporting ivermectin use seems shady to me as well. I’ve seen enough and am done looking at any more of his content.
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Nov 28, 2021 21:36
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Zwabu posted:Dr. John (who is actually a nurse with a PhD and background educating nurses, for those who haven’t viewed the “about” on his channel) seems to be to be doing a hard heel turn towards vaccine skepticism and pimping ivermectin. I followed him early on in the epidemic. Every single thumbnail and video title promotes vax skepticism now even though his is ostensibly still “pro vax”. Sad to see him on the downward spiral but he's an adult.  Any sane-ish YT alternatives for factual analysis like he used to do?
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Nov 28, 2021 21:45
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Just Another Lurker posted:Sad to see him on the downward spiral but he's an adult. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWMkeMA3sfA Medcram is a channel run by physicians that I also started to follow as the pandemic began. They are about different medical topics but have had a running serious on Covid topics since it began, and the posts mostly from critical care/pulmonary docs that are rooted in solid data analysis and presentation from what I can see. This is the deceptively titled Dr. John video I mentioned earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOyB2PyRf-k Another thing with Dr. John, in addition to his recent output focusing on anecdotes of vaccine complication, he’s also fixated on this idea of “aspiration” and the specific technique of vaccination being done wrong which as far as I know isn’t a thing but seems designed again to promote doubt and skepticism about the whole process. I think the guy is someone for whom being an old bespectacled white guy with a British accent and the title “Dr.” gives him the patina of authority that he doesn’t really have with respect to epidemiology and infectious disease and he’s now no better than the other Dr. Marcy So and So, PhD and Chief of Molecular Science at the Glominoid Institute that are featured prominently in the various disinfo memes on the internet. He’s a loving hack. Zwabu fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Nov 28, 2021 |
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Nov 28, 2021 21:56
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Set posted:There is also the possibility of the Omicron spike protein having different binding affinities to membrane components beyond ACE2 compared to other variants, like the different membrane lipids expressed in the different tissues/cell types. These things are always more complex than just "this protein recognizes this protein", as the environment where the interaction happens as well as any modifications to the proteins can have big effects on how they find and bind each other. Here is a paper where they discuss the probability of cell surface situated sialylated glycolipids facilitating SARS-nCOV-2 entry into cells. This is also not that unexpected since other common beta coronaviruses that cause lower respiratory tract infection such as OC43 and HKU1 also bind to sialic acids. A very common post translational modification of membrane associated and secreted proteins (especially in mammalian cells) is called glycosylation, and during glycosylation sialic acid often also cap the outer end of these heterogenic n-glycans and o-glycans that form. It is thus often beneficial for the virus if it has an accessory glycan binding capacity to it's spike protein as that can enhance binding to it's surface target protein (that will almost always will be glycosylated as it is a surface protein). I think OC43 is also the coronavirus most associated with infecting the brain thanks to that sialic acid binding capacity.
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Nov 28, 2021 22:03
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Good news I guess, albeit just preliminary stuff https://mobile.twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1465067528581955587
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Nov 28, 2021 22:26
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Zwabu posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWMkeMA3sfA Thanks for the reality check and the Medcram link.  Won't deny that aspiration stuff he was going on about WAS making me feel slightly anxious for no discernible reason, happily had my booster jab last week so i wasn't that far gone. I had known he was a doctor of nursing and not a Dr. and as a believer in the NHS i looked at him in that regard. Guess i shouldn't get complacent on the Internet. 
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Nov 28, 2021 22:29
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I've watched Dr John since the beginning of the pandemic and he's always shown signs of wingnuttery with his unbelievable faith in Vitamin D. He also seems to have a total inability to critically analyze the quality of a study. His general points are right: vaccines + therapeutics are the way forward. His probably is he seems to buy into the conspiracy that ivermectin isn't being used because it doesn't make the pharmaceutical companies enough money. Edit: I also think anyone in the medical field who calls themselves doctor and is not an MD should really put that disclaimer at the beginning of every video.
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Nov 28, 2021 22:34
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EngineerJoe posted:I've watched Dr John since the beginning of the pandemic and he's always shown signs of wingnuttery with his unbelievable faith in Vitamin D. He also seems to have a total inability to critically analyze the quality of a study. I think I cracked when he said maybe it was time to go out and actually get Covid
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Nov 28, 2021 22:35
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gay picnic defence posted:Good news I guess, albeit just preliminary stuff Appropriately, the good news appears to have been deleted.
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Nov 28, 2021 22:37
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:I think I cracked when he said maybe it was time to go out and actually get Covid Yeah that was a pretty dark one. I had to point out to my dad who was excited about it that in most videos he reads studies line by line, but in that one he was reading a newpaper editorial in the same style. Very weird.
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Nov 28, 2021 22:37
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Scarodactyl posted:They noticed the sudden appearance of different symptoms--severe fatigue without loss of smell in particular--and are assuming that it's from the new variant. Great if it's less deadly, but I'm still ready to duck and cover as needed. Boy am I glad I just ordered ten grams of amphetamine
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Nov 28, 2021 22:52
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Appropriately, the good news appears to have been deleted. Ah well, it was nice for the 5 minutes it existed
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Nov 28, 2021 22:53
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:I think I cracked when he said maybe it was time to go out and actually get Covid Must have missed that one. As for the vitamin D, my neurologist put me on D3 supplements way back in 2015 as i have a low level of it and have MS.
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Nov 28, 2021 22:56
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Appropriately, the good news appears to have been deleted. Yep, he had a few clips in a row about how he was wondering if he should try to catch covid a few months ago and that's when I stopped watching every video. I unsubscribed in October when I saw him more than just flirting with the anti-vaxers. Edit: his recent videos questioning the vaccine or about ivermectin are all over 1m views but all his other videos are 300k-500k so that answers that. EngineerJoe fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Nov 28, 2021 |
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Nov 28, 2021 22:56
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:I think I cracked when he said maybe it was time to go out and actually get Covid In all honesty, I was wondering if there is any science that would lend credence to this idea. With how overwhelmingly effective the vaccine is against serious illness, wouldn't catching the delta variant potentially provide greater protection against a future variant that the vaccine might be less effective against? This is, of course, based on my current assumption that Covid will never go away and we will all get it at some point. ... I promise I am asking this in good faith, I am not antimasker or Covid conspiracist or anything.
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Nov 28, 2021 23:03
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Bucswabe posted:In all honesty, I was wondering if there is any science that would lend credence to this idea. With how overwhelmingly effective the vaccine is against serious illness, wouldn't catching the delta variant potentially provide greater protection against a future variant that the vaccine might be less effective against? I have seen a study that suggested getting covid then getting vaccinated gave you an exceptional immune response, I’m not sure if that works as well in reverse though.
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Nov 28, 2021 23:08
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https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1465076600836345860?t=zK6FYE-wsA294K1PuXCBGA&s=19 I am so totally shocked guys
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Nov 28, 2021 23:15
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Omicron is likely everywhere already and probably has been for longer than it’s been known to exist lol
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Nov 28, 2021 23:21
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Austria just confirmed an Omicron case as well, that's the 14th country so far in just 2 days There's a clinic in LA who has some samples which they suspect might be Omicron but they're having a hard time finding someone to sequence them and check https://twitter.com/alexmeshkin/status/1464604739291783174 Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Nov 28, 2021 |
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Nov 28, 2021 23:26
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HD DAD posted:Omicron is likely everywhere already and probably has been for longer than it’s been known to exist lol South Africa was pretty justified in pushing back against it being labeled a "South African variant" just because they happen to have excellent sequence monitoring and spotted it first. It could've come from any number of places and started spreading rapidly in densely-populated, largely-unvaccinated Johannesburg area. I mean, it doesn't really matter where it came from, it's not like it's the "fault" of a person or nation when a virus mutates. If anything, kudos to SA for spotting it. We're lucky it can be monitored by PCR proxy to an extent.
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Nov 28, 2021 23:41
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Bucswabe posted:In all honesty, I was wondering if there is any science that would lend credence to this idea. With how overwhelmingly effective the vaccine is against serious illness, wouldn't catching the delta variant potentially provide greater protection against a future variant that the vaccine might be less effective against? are you sure?  Just kidding, I do agree, we should try and keep a critical mind. This is Big Pharma, after all. It's not conspiracy poo poo to say there's for sure a few bad eggs working there. They told people cigarrettes and sugar were healthy in the 40's. And let's not get started with government and medical institutions. Presidents, leaders of state saying not to get vaxxed. And how many nurses turned out to be super antivaxx? I remember it gave me a good crack ping. And remember articles calling people "Booster Bandits" for wanting a 3rd shot? I think best we can do is trust, but verify. The second part is the hard one. Even studies that look really good can get debunked in a few weeks. But hopefully the good folks at Something Awful will figure this out 
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Nov 28, 2021 23:43
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It's just another embarrassment that the US hasn't confirmed an omicron case so far. Not only will we not stop travel from south Africa until Monday, we can't even muster up a few teams of people to test the people coming off the planes.
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Nov 28, 2021 23:50
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Fritz the Horse posted:South Africa was pretty justified in pushing back against it being labeled a "South African variant" just because they happen to have excellent sequence monitoring and spotted it first. It could've come from any number of places and started spreading rapidly in densely-populated, largely-unvaccinated Johannesburg area. I mean, it doesn't really matter where it came from, it's not like it's the "fault" of a person or nation when a virus mutates. If anything, kudos to SA for spotting it. Couldn't imagine why. 
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Nov 28, 2021 23:56
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Austria just confirmed an Omicron case as well, that's the 14th country so far in just 2 days How does that even work? We were able to confirm our first two cases within 24 hours of them entering the country. There's no way the US doesn't have that capability.
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Nov 28, 2021 23:58
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Lolie posted:How does that even work? We were able to confirm our first two cases within 24 hours of them entering the country. There's no way the US doesn't have that capability. Oh we have the capability, we just don't have the political will to use it.
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Nov 29, 2021 00:01
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Pennywise the Frown posted:Couldn't imagine why. Yeah and in South Africa's case you probably also want to push back against "Omicron probably evolved in an immunocompromised person who had a very long course of disease" because then everyone's going to assume it's someone living with HIV/AIDS which is kind of victim blaming and risks more stigma for PLWHA. It could just as easily have been a cancer patient in [country X with detected cases]. We definitely don't need more bigotry toward PLWHA similar to the anti-Asian hatred in the US from "China virus" bullshit. Lolie posted:How does that even work? We were able to confirm our first two cases within 24 hours of them entering the country. There's no way the US doesn't have that capability. Sequencing is more expensive and difficult than PCR but you should be able to find a lab in Los Angeles to sequence them. Cripes there are a ton of big universities and research centers there Also are you sure the 24 hour confirmation was based on sequencing or s-gene dropout on PCR? I thought sequencing took several days but idk how much of that is logistics versus actual instrument runtime. I genuinely don't know, I assume it also depends on the sequencing equipment, the most recent technology is faster obviously.
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Nov 29, 2021 00:07
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Lolie posted:How does that even work? We were able to confirm our first two cases within 24 hours of them entering the country. There's no way the US doesn't have that capability. AIUI confirming that it's Omicron requires a full sequencing of the genome which takes >72 hours, but there's a quicker and cheaper PCR test which is what you normally get when you just take a generic "PCR test". This test only looks for a small number of specific sequences and it fails to find one of them with Omicron - this is the "s-gene dropout" he's talking about. A sample that is positive for all the other sequences but negative for this is almost certain to be Omicron but they can't say for sure until that full test is done.
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Nov 29, 2021 00:11
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Bucswabe posted:In all honesty, I was wondering if there is any science that would lend credence to this idea. With how overwhelmingly effective the vaccine is against serious illness, wouldn't catching the delta variant potentially provide greater protection against a future variant that the vaccine might be less effective against? I don't think there are any studies that specific (covid+vax+reinfection, severity<hospital), but just anecdotally, it seems that catching covid continues to be a bad plan. (Also, opt for takeout)
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Nov 29, 2021 00:18
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i like nice words
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Were there ever any estimates as to how many people died eating horse dewormer? There were stories for days of people losing their intestinal lining, and I wondered what the total damage was for that line of quackery.
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Nov 29, 2021 00:19
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Fritz the Horse posted:
I'm not sure how it was done but they arrived in Sydney from Doha on Saturday evening and were confirmed to have the Omicron variant yesterday (Sunday here) afternoon. I assume the PCR test results made them suspicious, but I know that we've been able to carry out genomic testing with Delta extremely fast and that it's been invaluable in tracing the exact path of transmission.
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Nov 29, 2021 00:21
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Captain Stalin posted:Were there ever any estimates as to how many people died eating horse dewormer? There were stories for days of people losing their intestinal lining, and I wondered what the total damage was for that line of quackery. The real damage is the people who don’t get vaccinated because they are convinced that ivermectin is a miracle cure that will one hundred percent cure and prevent any major sequelae from covid. My wife and I have a friend like that and it’s maddening.
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Nov 29, 2021 00:42
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Anne Whateley posted:I don't think there are any studies that specific (covid+vax+reinfection, severity<hospital), but just anecdotally, it seems that catching covid continues to be a bad plan. The current CDC analysis is that vaccination and natural immunity are both pretty good, and they don't have sufficient evidence to say one is more protective than the other. But they did find one particular combination that seems to be more protective than all others, which is getting covid first and vaccinated second. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/vaccine-induced-immunity.html quote:Substantial immunologic evidence and a growing body of epidemiologic evidence indicate that vaccination after infection significantly enhances protection and further reduces risk of reinfection, which lays the foundation for CDC recommendations. This doesn't mean you should try to catch covid before you get vaccinated -- the whole point of getting vaccinated is to avoid or blunt a covid infection in the first place. But if you think you have natural immunity from a prior infection, there is still a benefit to vaccination. The reverse does not appear to be true so far.
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Nov 29, 2021 00:52
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Of course the CDC uses “2019-ncov” in their urls instead of “covid-19”.
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Nov 29, 2021 01:12
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I understand that on a population level, infected, then vaxed may provide modestly better protection (for an unknown duration). On an individual level, based totally anecdotally on what I've seen, I don't feel protected from symptomatic covid or serious long-lasting symptoms, even if my odds of ending up in the hospital or dying are lower. I definitely would/do/have recommended the vaccine to people who had covid. But I wouldn't recommend deliberately getting covid to anybody.
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Nov 29, 2021 01:17
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There's already been several news stories of people who attended "Covid parties" to try and get some 'natural immunity' or because they thought it was a hoax and they ended up in the ICU or even deadquote:An undisclosed number of people from the town of Edson in Alberta in Canada have ended up in the ICU after attending a “Covid party,” according to news reports. quote:A 30-year-old man who believed the coronavirus was a hoax and attended a “Covid party” died after being infected with the virus, according to the chief medical officer at a Texas hospital.
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Nov 29, 2021 01:52
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I don't know if the terminology is a technical one predating covid but getting "already infected" to regularly be called "natural immunity" seems like a pretty big PR win for anti vax. Like you're debating two legitimate strategies to avoid the worst of COVID.
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Nov 29, 2021 02:14
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brugroffil posted:I don't know if the terminology is a technical one predating covid but getting "already infected" to regularly be called "natural immunity" seems like a pretty big PR win for anti vax. Like you're debating two legitimate strategies to avoid the worst of COVID. I could be wrong, but I don't feel like it is a new thing. I'm used to getting yearly flu shots, and checking to see how good the vaccination maps up to the strains actually spreading in a given year, and thinking in terms of variable protection as well as reduced severity of illness. I'm also used to wondering how long my immune response will last against a particular bug, like when there is a cold circulating through the community and I catch it, but it continues to circulate and I worry about catching it again.
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Nov 29, 2021 02:22
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brugroffil posted:I don't know if the terminology is a technical one predating covid but getting "already infected" to regularly be called "natural immunity" seems like a pretty big PR win for anti vax. Like you're debating two legitimate strategies to avoid the worst of COVID. It's a technical term predating COVID but so is "infection-acquired immunity", a much better synonym. E: Or "Rolled-the-dice-with-death-and-got-lucky-this-time-acquired immunity"
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Nov 29, 2021 02:22
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"my strategy for getting immunity to COVID is to get COVID first"
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Nov 29, 2021 02:25
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brugroffil posted:I don't know if the terminology is a technical one predating covid but getting "already infected" to regularly be called "natural immunity" seems like a pretty big PR win for anti vax. Like you're debating two legitimate strategies to avoid the worst of COVID. It’s ridiculous - vaccinated people will also get natural immunity through exposure to COVID, except with a significantly reduced chance of dying or ending up in the hospital. Québec and Ontario have daily trackers for new cases, hospitalizations, and ICU admissions by bac status, and the numbers clearly show that, while the shots’ protection against infection has waned (unvaxxed are 3-4 times as likely to test positive), protection against hospitalizations remains high (8-9 times), while protection against ICU admission is roughly the same as it was in the summertime. Why would people take those risks for the same natural immunity they would get anyway?
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Nov 29, 2021 02:25
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