Linux: vim isn't moe

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mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Poopernickel posted:

just use SSH and tunnel everything

boom, problem solved you're welcome

has anyone used mosh? is it worth it? would IT kill me?

# ? Nov 30, 2021 22:19

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 17:25

Poopernickel: Oct 28, 2005; electricity bad; Fun Shoe

mawarannahr posted:

has anyone used mosh? is it worth it? would IT kill me?

I donked around with it some. [iTerm2 local] + [tmux on remote] is a better fit for my use-case.

Iterm2's tmux integration is serious magic. You don't need to gently caress around with tmux commands, config files, or anything. it "just works" and gives you a native-feeling terminal session that you can reconnect as needed.

Poopernickel fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Nov 30, 2021

# ? Nov 30, 2021 22:26

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

DoomTrainPhD posted:

What the gently caress are you talking about? Deployment happens in a pipeline, no random loving developer laptop get's to deploy anything

ah, you're a stranger to systemd development, i see

Poopernickel posted:

just use SSH and tunnel everything

boom, problem solved you're welcome

ssh -D 1080 owns, though

mawarannahr posted:

has anyone used mosh? is it worth it? would IT kill me?

the only advantage to mosh that i've been able to find is if you're on a link with a high latency and high delta between packets

so if you're on a train while using WWAN, basically

# ? Nov 30, 2021 22:34

SYSV Fanfic: Sep 9, 2003; by Pragmatica

I'm glad to use an OS that does not bundle a buy now, pay later pitch into a core part of the operating system.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/11/microsoft-plans-to-integrate-a-buy-now-pay-later-app-into-edge/

# ? Dec 1, 2021 03:22

outhole surfer: Mar 18, 2003

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

so if you're on a train while using WWAN, basically

does that even matter any more? I was holding open an ssh tcp connection through the sf subway, transbay tube, and all that poo poo a decade ago with umts/hsdpa.

mosh was that thing everyone wanted to keep their eye on for a few years when it came out, because it solved a problem we had at the time, but we didn't consider mosh safe/stable enough to see widespread use. then connectivity got better and mosh was kinda pointless for the majority of the users who thought it was neat.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 05:44

Poopernickel: Oct 28, 2005; electricity bad; Fun Shoe

I have used it on an airplane over the lovely airplane wifi once or twice. The predictive local echo was nice for reducing the apparent latency of stuff I typed.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 09:17

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

nudgenudgetilt posted:

does that even matter any more? I was holding open an ssh tcp connection through the sf subway, transbay tube, and all that poo poo a decade ago with umts/hsdpa.

mosh was that thing everyone wanted to keep their eye on for a few years when it came out, because it solved a problem we had at the time, but we didn't consider mosh safe/stable enough to see widespread use. then connectivity got better and mosh was kinda pointless for the majority of the users who thought it was neat.

connectivity can still be spotty in areas; there's a place near where i live where if you walk down a bike path between some houses, reception just drops for no adequately explainable reason
but connectivity has gotten a lot better for the most part

the only other use-case for mosh i know of is the way i heard about it originally, with someone being trapped in an elevator

# ? Dec 1, 2021 12:34

MrMoo: Sep 14, 2000

mawarannahr posted:

has anyone used mosh? is it worth it? would IT kill me?

mosh should be mandatory installed everywhere whenever you have to access something over anything but a cable on a local LAN segment. Networking staff may be a hindrance because of UDP, but they probably haven't heard of HTTP/3 either. The networking staff at big exchange (tm) are still unaware that HTTP/2 is a thing and that's constantly amazing and an infosec 💩 fest.

mosh also has some sort of type ahead support so it feels more responsive, very noticable long distance.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 12:41

MrMoo: Sep 14, 2000

Oh help me Lunix gurus. I have a family of three apps for MLB and need to move to Docker because of hardware issues.

Simpleton approach:
1: Single Docker container with three apps and NGINX, exposing a single port.

Single responsibility approach:
1: 3 � Docker containers, one for each app, each with an exposed port.
2: 1� Docker container for NGINX as a gateway, forwarding to the other three containers.

The main sticking point is that NGINX needs access to the file system from two of the apps in order to provide sendfile acceleration of videos. How stupid is running NGINX in each container with the two apps that need acceleration, and passing that through the gateway as an additional hop?

Also, does ffmpeg work in Alpine without major issues? Oh what a mess.

MrMoo fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Dec 1, 2021

# ? Dec 1, 2021 12:49

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

MrMoo posted:

Oh help me Lunix gurus. I have a family of three apps for MLB and need to move to Docker because of hardware issues.

Simpleton approach:
1: Single Docker container with three apps and NGINX, exposing a single port.

Single responsibility approach:
1: 3 � Docker containers, one for each app, each with an exposed port.
2: 1� Docker container for NGINX as a gateway, forwarding to the other three containers.

The main sticking point is that NGINX needs access to the file system from two of the apps in order to provide sendfile acceleration of videos. How stupid is running NGINX in each container with the two apps that need acceleration, and passing that through the gateway as an additional hop?

Also, does ffmpeg work in Alpine without major issues? Oh what a mess.

can you not mount a volume into multiple dockers using compose? its trivial with kubernetes (i am not suggesting using kubernetes)

# ? Dec 1, 2021 17:58

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Nomnom Cookie posted:

can you not mount a volume into multiple dockers using compose? its trivial with kubernetes (i am not suggesting using kubernetes)

You absolutely can.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 18:01

Poopernickel: Oct 28, 2005; electricity bad; Fun Shoe

Nomnom Cookie posted:

kubernetes

# ? Dec 1, 2021 18:23

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

DoomTrainPhD posted:

You absolutely can.

ok then yeah do that op

Poopernickel posted:

No

i agree k8s is inappropriate for this use case, it is just what i have experience with

# ? Dec 1, 2021 18:24

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

imagine that i posted a flowchart with the question "are you a hyperscaler" leading to a boolean where yes is "use kubernetes" and no is "don't use kubernetes".

# ? Dec 1, 2021 18:44

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

don't use alpine

# ? Dec 1, 2021 18:57

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Progressive JPEG posted:

don't use alpine

This. Musl is slow and bad.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 18:57

post hole digger: Mar 21, 2011

Progressive JPEG posted:

don't use alpine

ive only started learning about docker in the past couple of weeks. what do you like instead

# ? Dec 1, 2021 18:59

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

post hole digger posted:

ive only started learning about docker in the past couple of weeks. what do you like instead

Debian/Ubuntu is the best choice for a docker container base.

You have to setup some timezone stuff at the top of your dockerfile first though. IE:

code:

FROM debian:bullseye

ENV DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive
ENV TZ=US/Pacific

# Setup tzdata first as to avoid a dialog requesting tzdata setup.
RUN set -e; \
  apt --allow-unauthenticated update; \
  apt --allow-unauthenticated upgrade -y; \
  apt-get install -y apt-utils gpgv2 locales tzdata; \
  localedef -i en_US -c -f UTF-8 -A /usr/share/locale/locale.alias en_US.UTF-8; \
  ln -snf /usr/share/zoneinfo/$TZ /etc/localtime; \
  echo $TZ > /etc/timezone;

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:02

Poopernickel: Oct 28, 2005; electricity bad; Fun Shoe

BlankSystemDaemon posted:

imagine that i posted a flowchart with the question "are you a hyperscaler" leading to a boolean where yes is "use kubernetes" and no is "don't use kubernetes".

this except both arrows go to "don't use kubernetes"

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:09

Poopernickel: Oct 28, 2005; electricity bad; Fun Shoe

it's no coincidence that kubernetes rhymes with diabetes

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:11

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

What are the alternatives to K8s?

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:13

post hole digger: Mar 21, 2011

Poopernickel posted:

this except both arrows go to "don't use kubernetes"

why not

DoomTrainPhD posted:

Debian/Ubuntu is the best choice for a docker container base.

You have to setup some timezone stuff at the top of your dockerfile first though. IE:

code:

FROM debian:bullseye

ENV DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive
ENV TZ=US/Pacific

# Setup tzdata first as to avoid a dialog requesting tzdata setup.
RUN set -e; \
  apt --allow-unauthenticated update; \
  apt --allow-unauthenticated upgrade -y; \
  apt-get install -y apt-utils gpgv2 locales tzdata; \
  localedef -i en_US -c -f UTF-8 -A /usr/share/locale/locale.alias en_US.UTF-8; \
  ln -snf /usr/share/zoneinfo/$TZ /etc/localtime; \
  echo $TZ > /etc/timezone;

interesting thanks. i am most familiar with rhel/centos but will look into this

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:13

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

post hole digger posted:

why not

interesting thanks. i am most familiar with rhel/centos but will look into this

I like RHEL in docker containers as well! It just happens to be a bit fatter.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:14

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

MrMoo posted:

2: 1 Docker container for NGINX as a gateway, forwarding to the other three containers.

This is the option I would choose. As adding more containers (if needed) in the future is easier with this option.

Edit:

Also cert management, as the other containers don't have to be running HTTPS, only the frontend, so you only have one container that has to deal with HTTPS certs.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:22

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

DoomTrainPhD posted:

What are the alternatives to K8s?

real alternatives offered by real yospos posters:
* simply do not have more than 3 EC2 instances
* docker swarm
* bake an AMI for each app and run everything in ASGs
* have a single mission critical server that is never allowed to have even a minute of downtime, even for a kernel update

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:24

Poopernickel: Oct 28, 2005; electricity bad; Fun Shoe

unpopular opinion: Unless you're working at ~*EnTeRpRisE ScAle*~, containers are almost always unnecessary. They add another layer of complexity and offer no benefit over just using your distro's package manager and systemd sandboxing.

The pendulum will swing away from containers within the next 4 years, guaranteed.

Poopernickel fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Dec 1, 2021

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:25

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

Poopernickel posted:

The pendulum will swing away from containers within the next 4 years, guaranteed.

some of us have had containers since 1999

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:48

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Poopernickel posted:

unpopular opinion: Unless you're working at ~*EnTeRpRisE ScAle*~, containers are almost always unnecessary. They add another layer of complexity and offer no benefit over just using your distro's package manager and systemd sandboxing.

The pendulum will swing away from containers within the next 4 years, guaranteed.

It's an unpopular opinion because it's wrong lol.

Nomnom Cookie posted:

real alternatives offered by real yospos posters:
* simply do not have more than 3 EC2 instances
* docker swarm
* bake an AMI for each app and run everything in ASGs
* have a single mission critical server that is never allowed to have even a minute of downtime, even for a kernel update

I laughed at docker swarm.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 19:55

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Hey guys, this thing that sandboxes your application, makes dependency management easier, locks down dependencies, and makes development much easier for developers is just a fad because it requires learning something new and a tiny bit of setup.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 20:00

Tankakern: Jul 25, 2007

as if docker doesn't have any downsides

it makes dependency management easier because it hides all dependencies

# ? Dec 1, 2021 20:07

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Tankakern posted:

as if docker doesn't have any downsides

it makes dependency management easier because it hides all dependencies

I never said containers didn't have any downsides, but those downsides are far outweighed by the upsides.

Edit* If anything, I would recommend not using docker in favor of podman if you can do so.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 20:10

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

Tankakern posted:

it makes dependency management easier because it hides all dependencies

true and good

# ? Dec 1, 2021 20:14

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

true and good

# ? Dec 1, 2021 20:15

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

oldie but goodie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPRvc2UMeMI

# ? Dec 1, 2021 20:24

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

in my day they called containers "application pools" or "servlets"

# ? Dec 1, 2021 20:28

Poopernickel: Oct 28, 2005; electricity bad; Fun Shoe

When you do a docker, your dockered thing has more dependencies, not less. Because now it depends on docker too, in addition to all of the stuff that still has to go into the docker image. And it probably also depends on some server that hosts the docker image, unless you rebuild it every time. And extra configuration for the host system that's running dockerd.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 20:35

NihilCredo: Jun 6, 2011; iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Poopernickel posted:

When you do a docker, your dockered thing has more dependencies, not less. Because now it depends on docker too, in addition to all of the stuff that still has to go into the docker image. And it probably also depends on some server that hosts the docker image, unless you rebuild it every time. And extra configuration for the host system that's running dockerd.

you honestly think you just wrote a very insightful post, don't you

# ? Dec 1, 2021 20:54

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Poopernickel posted:

When you do a docker, your dockered thing has more dependencies, not less. Because now it depends on docker too, in addition to all of the stuff that still has to go into the docker image. And it probably also depends on some server that hosts the docker image, unless you rebuild it every time. And extra configuration for the host system that's running dockerd.

Podman is daemonless.
Everything you just said about more dependencies is not a bad thing when it means your application is sandboxed, and you don't have to deal with different distributions/package managers, or different versions of dependencies.

Either you are trolling, or very bad at Linux.

# ? Dec 1, 2021 20:55

Perplx: Jun 26, 2004; Best viewed on Orgasma Plasma; Lipstick Apathy

if all your apps have first party docker images and your setup is simple you actually have less configuration than any other setup

# ? Dec 1, 2021 20:55

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 17:25

FlapYoJacks: Feb 12, 2009

Perplx posted:

if all your apps have first party docker images and your setup is simple you actually have less configuration than any other setup

No no, don't you see, Docker is a dependency! A DEPENDENCY! IT'S ONE MORE! UNACCEPTABLE!

# ? Dec 1, 2021 20:57

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