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Melee Mech (Shin) Midranged Mech (Theo) Heavy Machine Gun Mech (Raiden) Sniper Mech (Kurena) Missle Pod Mech (Anju)
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Dec 7, 2021 22:01
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Theo's mech can also be distinguished by his habit of leaving tripwire bombs all over the place.
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Dec 7, 2021 22:10
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I like that I was wondering what that sort of disk thing was on top of Raiden's mech and then I realized it's just a bigass magazine for his autocannon.
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Dec 7, 2021 22:27
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Conspiratiorist posted:IDK about you guys but I can tell who's who by their loadouts and piloting styles. The animation team actually put a lot of effort into this - don't dismiss it just because each mech isn't color coded like they're power rangers. Nobody is saying this, or at least I'm not. I even said that they're very competently executed and I can generally tell which one Shinei is piloting, but when it comes to the machine designs themselves I'd be hard pressed to describe how one is distinct from another outside of broad strokes like "this model is supposed to be newer". Like, I couldn't even tell you how many legs any of the combat mechs have, if I'm going to be honest. Fido has four because Fido is cute like a dog. Darth Walrus posted:They remind me more of X-Wings in Star Wars. They aren't that individually distinctive (beyond their unique weapon loadouts), but they're clearly recognisable collectively as hero machines. This is a good way of putting it. Right now the main way I tell which side is which is from Legion machines being more angular, while the human machines are chunkier and more utilitarian looking. It's a similar dichotomy with Empire and Rebel machines in Star Wars, where even if you aren't a nerd who knows what an A-Wing or a Tie Interceptor is you can immediately tell who it belongs to by looking at it.
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Dec 7, 2021 22:28
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Legion Machines are super easy to tell apart from the others for me at least.
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Dec 7, 2021 23:16
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You don't want to overload the audience with technical jargon, but the AoT TV series had a clever trick of putting some technical reference sheets and world-building in the eyecatches around commercial breaks. If you really want to read those details you can pause the stream or DVR recording.
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Dec 8, 2021 00:19
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i love the design of the juggernauts honestly. the knives are kind of dumb every time they try to animate slashing with them, and any agile maneuver has that slight jank in the 3d model that makes me stop taking it seriously, but i think as a machine design the juggernaut has a lot of personality. individual juggernauts don't appear much different from each other, no, why would they? i don't think any scene expects you to know which is which
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Dec 8, 2021 01:52
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Individually IDK, but I've had a lot of moments where the juggernaughts are facing each other and they looked cute. I'd also love tarantula's as a pet though.
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Dec 8, 2021 02:17
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Someone said they killed the nazis but they kinda lied cause it wasn’t the 86 it was dumb robots and the 86 sacrificed themselves defending them Its worse than if the nazis didn’t die at all I’m mad at whoever here said they killed the nazis but did not mention this crucial information
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Dec 8, 2021 13:10
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Tabletops posted:Someone said they killed the nazis but they kinda lied cause it wasn’t the 86 it was dumb robots and the 86 sacrificed themselves defending them I should inform you they are not Nazi's they are just very very racist. And the 86 did not sacrifice themselves defending them.
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Dec 8, 2021 13:32
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Tabletops posted:Someone said they killed the nazis but they kinda lied cause it wasn’t the 86 it was dumb robots and the 86 sacrificed themselves defending them Their refusal to listen to Shin and Lena is what did them in. It was feasible for them to survive the attack had they prepared, but they continued to treat the war as seriously as a a work of fiction (remember the military was wondering whether a movie was playing when klaxons started blaring and footage of the walls falling was displayed on their monitors). It was ultimately their hubris that did them in.
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Dec 8, 2021 15:24
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they were probably doomed regardless, what with how utterly poo poo their military was. it started out worthless and only got worse from there.
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Dec 8, 2021 15:50
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Tabletops posted:Someone said they killed the nazis but they kinda lied cause it wasn’t the 86 it was dumb robots and the 86 sacrificed themselves defending them Elephant Parade fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Dec 8, 2021 |
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Dec 8, 2021 16:49
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2016 broke people's brains.
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Dec 8, 2021 16:57
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The 86 sacrificed themselves in a last ditch effort to stay alive that would have also kept the alba alive Whether or not they would turn on the alba immediately after was an open question
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Dec 8, 2021 17:07
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:they were probably doomed regardless, what with how utterly poo poo their military was. it started out worthless and only got worse from there. Oh, for sure it wouldn't have been so simple as doing a few preparations right before the Legion attack and they'd be able to hold. They'd spent the better part of a decade not maintaining their military, not doing any R&D, not training a new competent officer corps after the previous set died in the initial Legion invasion. They had set in motion a lot of stuff that was leading to their doom a long time ago, but they did have opportunities to turn the around. They had very competent at fighting 86 who never really expressed a desire to rebel against them and who could have been used to train up new frontline fighters rather than throwing people into the meat grinder until only a few survived. They had an extremely good position strategically with good defenses and had the best comms system (Para-RAID) of any of the neighboring countries. Their distain for the 86 and complete unwillingness to face reality and take the needed steps to avoid it is what did them in.
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Dec 8, 2021 17:24
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Simple stuff like allowing the use of the mortars and having actual plans for how to reload them would have saved a lot of experienced soldiers and mechs even late in the war. San magnolia's downfall was seeing the 86 as something to be eliminated, rather than humans or even the valuable inhuman military assets they claimed the juggernauts were. Racism was not just bad for the 86, all of san magnolia had to pay that price
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Dec 8, 2021 18:15
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You also had the senior military leadership I think entertaining a death wish out of guilt if Lena's uncle is any indication. Was this week also a break week?
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Dec 11, 2021 17:16
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There is conflicting programming this week (probably sports) so no episode this week. It was scheduled at the start of the season, so not production related.
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Dec 11, 2021 17:40
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Elephant Parade posted:So if I understand correctly, you're saying you'd specifically only have been satisfied if the 86 had personally killed the Alba? That'd have been a very specific route for the story to go down. It was also clearly not something it was building up to, given that none of the 86 ever expressed any interest in a violent rebellion. yes. them sacrificing themselves as a last stand before the robots got into the rest of the city just made it even worse.
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Dec 12, 2021 02:05
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Tabletops posted:yes. them sacrificing themselves as a last stand before the robots got into the rest of the city just made it even worse. What would you have them do? Attempt a civil war while being invaded by genocidal murder robots?
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Dec 12, 2021 02:48
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Tabletops posted:yes. them sacrificing themselves as a last stand before the robots got into the rest of the city just made it even worse.
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Dec 12, 2021 02:52
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of course it's 'justified' in the writing. I'm saying it's garbage evoking some kind of perversion of the happy slave myth, except it's both an intentional genocide and slavery at the same time and every 86 is 100% aware of it. it is wildly lovely. i'm conflicted because I generally don't like to nitpick stories that do something 'unrealistic' or don't pass some kind of logical rationalization sniff test that a lot of off the cuff/reactionary criticism falls into, but at the same time this just reeks of some really poo poo beliefs.
Tabletops fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Dec 12, 2021 |
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Dec 12, 2021 03:06
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Tabletops posted:I'm saying it's garbage evoking some kind of perversion of the happy slave myth You what now.
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Dec 12, 2021 03:21
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Tabletops posted:of course it's 'justified' in the writing. I'm saying it's garbage evoking some kind of perversion of the happy slave myth, except it's both an intentional genocide and slavery at the same time and every 86 is 100% aware of it. it is wildly lovely. i'm conflicted because I generally don't like to nitpick stories that do something 'unrealistic' or don't pass some kind of logical rationalization sniff test that a lot of off the cuff/reactionary criticism falls into, but at the same time this just reeks of some really poo poo beliefs. How. Plus the 86 did not sacrifice themselves for the Alba.
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Dec 12, 2021 03:34
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MonsterEnvy posted:How. how did they not? whats her face mobilized the entirety of the 86 to go die in 85 or whatever to hold off the legion
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Dec 12, 2021 03:41
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Tabletops posted:how did they not? whats her face mobilized the entirety of the 86 to go die in 85 or whatever to hold off the legion I guess you missed the part where the 86 were recalled by Lena to within the walls of the capitol to help with a last stand of the only territory left in control of the humans in the Republic? In the final stand of the republic the 86 were not outside of the walls trying to keep the Alba comfortable, the Alba civilians and 86 alike were being slaughtered en-mass by the Legion who had used their Morpho to crack the otherwise impenetrable walls and invade the city. This has also been pointed out by Lena as well, but if the legion take the capitol the 86 die as well because all the factories needed to supply everyone with their needs, including food, are there.
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Dec 12, 2021 03:49
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Tabletops posted:of course it's 'justified' in the writing. I'm saying it's garbage evoking some kind of perversion of the well treated slave myth, except it's both an intentional genocide and slavery at the same time. it is wildly lovely. i'm conflicted because I generally don't like to nitpick stories that do something 'unrealistic' or don't pass some kind of logical rationalization sniff test that a lot of off the cuff/reactionary criticism falls into, but at the same time this just reeks of some really poo poo beliefs. 1. The obvious question here is, "What about the non-Alba who don't believe that? What about the ones who think, equally validly, that their oppressors can go die?" I don't think this question is directly answered, but you might justify it as selection bias—the people who have no motivation to defend San Magnolia aren't going to survive almost five years of brutal combat doing just that, instead burning out, giving up, committing suicide, attempting rebellion, and so on.
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Dec 12, 2021 04:00
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Elephant Parade posted:I mean, is it? Let's consider the motivations of the 86: why do they defend the state that has disenfranchised them? The members of Spearhead believe in the intrinsic value in human life and don't want to abandon the countless lives behind the wall, particularly the few non-racist ones.1 Cyclops, the only second-season San Magnolian 86 who gets any focus, seems to be motivated by a personal loyalty to Vladilena—and here you might call "well-treated slave," except that the loyalty arises not because Vladilena is nice but because she's engaged in an open rebellion against San Magnolian society that grows bolder every day and is clearly intended to culminate in emancipation for the 86. And of course, as people have discussed, abandoning the exterior front to wage a civil war would mean letting the invading Legion force kill everyone, themselves included. In short, they aren't defending San Magnolia because they're "well-treated slaves": they're defending it because it fits their values and is in their own self-interest. i used the well treated slave myth as analogy because it usually imparts agency on behalf of the slave - ie they are Ok with being a slave because they are treated well and it's just like having a job. In this case, they are ok with being slaves that are forced to fight and die as an efficient way to eradicate them while fighting their masters enemies because uhh, they don't wanna kill people? essentially? Your description of them as 'disenfranchised' is an incredible understatement of what is a 1-1 nazi reenactment methodical genocide, with the added bonus of them also being a slave army a-la spartan helots. The genocide and slavery began within all of the characters lifespans, they all knew it was happening and how. The idea that they believe in the intrinsic value of human life is wild to me, when they say over, and over and over again how their lives are forfeit and they all accept that they're just here to die and all 86 will eventually die either directly or indirectly through battle. They know there is no freedom in 5 years of service besides just execution by proxy. My whole point is that the depiction of an enslaved, genocided group simply accepting this fact and in the end willingly dying to protect them and their infrastructure (lol), when they simultaneously all acknowledge that their last stand is pointless in the face of the legions forces. I think it's lovely that the nazis essentially win by default. They die eventually, after the 86, but they win all the same.
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Dec 12, 2021 04:43
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Tabletops posted:i used the well treated slave myth as analogy because it usually imparts agency on behalf of the slave - ie they are Ok with being a slave because they are treated well and it's just like having a job. In this case, they are ok with being slaves that are forced to fight and die as an efficient way to eradicate them while fighting their masters enemies because uhh, they don't wanna kill people? essentially?
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Dec 12, 2021 04:49
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It's almost like two characters had an argument about this exact topic in the series!                   
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Dec 12, 2021 05:25
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the 86 are most certainly not ok with what the alba have done to them, they are not "happy" slaves by any definition of the word. in the first season they pretty well directly stated that they continue to fight rather than exact revenge out of a personal self interest to stay alive. the 86 did not come into the city to protect the alba, they came into the city because when under threat of a massive overwhelming invasion falling back to a more concentrated position makes them better able to not die, and if they did want to kill the alba lena gave them the perfect opportunity to do so. lena let them in as a means of protecting the alba, but whether or not the 86 intend to immediately gun down the alba right after the legion are defeated is unknown, and openly questioned by the narrative, as per ^ ultimately the way the story is going i don't think that's what will happen but the idea that the japanese internment soldiers (which the 86 are at least somewhat an allegory for) should have returned from the war and immediately opened fire on civilians preceding a national coup as the only moral outcome of that event is some questionable ethics to me
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Dec 12, 2021 06:14
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The well treated slave analogy breaks down considering how often the 86 on the front lines are mistreated; not being given any support, the bare minimum maintenance for their mechs, and verbally abused regularly by their handlers up until Lena shows up. The point of something like the Jannissaries is to have a Us vs Them mentality, the people who have perks defending an oppressive system and everyone else who are just envious. The 86 on the front lines are instead constantly reminded they aren't seen as human. They aren't okay with their situation, but that's a problem for the future, in the meantime they need to secure their present and if that temporarily means working with the Albans so be it; lots of groups historically have made similar alliances of convenience.
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Dec 12, 2021 17:37
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Yeah, retreating inside San Magnolia was a matter of self-interest for the 86, too. They swapped out a small fortress for a big fortress for their last stand, and a last stand was necessary because they were already surrounded by omnicidal robots. It wasn't so much a sacrifice as it was mutual benefit.
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Dec 12, 2021 18:15
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ninjewtsu posted:ultimately the way the story is going i don't think that's what will happen but the idea that the japanese internment soldiers (which the 86 are at least somewhat an allegory for) Considering that the order interning the 86 was (not specifically mentioned in the anime, but is mostly just minutiae) 6609 (i.e. reverse numerical order of Executive Order 9066 for Japanese internment) that seems like a pretty reasonable assumption.
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Dec 12, 2021 21:45
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I mean, didn't the first season clearly lay out that if they tried to turn their guns on the Albans they'd just get mortared/mined to death on the way to the capital, and if they're dying anyway, they'd rather die fighting than just lay down and get their brains harvested by killer robots.
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Dec 12, 2021 23:31
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Did you want the 86s to be gunning down the Albans while holding off an invasion or something?
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Dec 13, 2021 06:02
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Tabletops posted:My whole point is that the depiction of an enslaved, genocided group simply accepting this fact and in the end willingly dying to protect them and their infrastructure (lol), when they simultaneously all acknowledge that their last stand is pointless in the face of the legions forces. I think it's lovely that the nazis essentially win by default. They die eventually, after the 86, but they win all the same. The 86 aren't fighting to protect the Alba, they're fighting to live. You can lol at the idea that they're protecting infrastructure, but last I checked, guns shoot bullets. People eat food. Future mecha need gas. They could almost certainly sweep through whatever defenses remain in the interior, but do any of them know how to run the factories? Do they have time to figure out the logistics of war when the guys involved in that all have a bullet to the brain? This isn't to say they are stupid, mind you, just that it is reasonable to expect that they probably suffered a lot of brain drain at the barrel of a gun. The people who know how to make sure shipments go to the right places at the right times probably don't do particularly well in giant robot combat. Spearhead (our general stand-in for the 86 as a whole) were defined by their stubborn refusal to die, even knowing full well that they'd been put in a situation where death was almost inevitable. Are you really so shocked that the same show is pressing that theme to the 86 more generally? That they're much more interested in surviving another day than enacting a bloody race pogrom on the people who tried to genocide them by proxy? Do you think it improves the themes of the show to have them decide 'gently caress it, we're all going to die we might as well go out on a brutal murder spree before the robots kill us?
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Dec 13, 2021 06:47
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tabletop's position is basically that the story should not have constructed itself such that the 86 would choose to protect the alba, and placing them in a circumstance where doing so makes sense makes the story worse. and i dunno "the 86 should have genocided the alba back" seems like a lovely alternate take even ignoring that the show has presented that as a very real possibility and not particularly condemned the idea
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Dec 13, 2021 07:15
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With all these delays at this point I’m expecting the rest of the season to go full Evangelion and have the last few episodes be a bunch of unanimated pencil sketches and a two minute high school romcom segment.
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Dec 13, 2021 08:43
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