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Nocheez
Sep 5, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?
Nap Ghost

TheSpartacus posted:

I'm been in a mandatory, company wide training on lean manufacturing principles. While in the training, I asked if anyone above front line managers would be attending and they said no, directors/VP/Ceo would not be. I then asked, how can they expect us to implement lean practices when we would have to explain the entire concept to the decision makers every time. Did not receive any answer of value... Once it was clear that management had no intention of actually implementing, finished the training and promptly forgot it all.

About a decade ago I found an article that showed that companies that employ six sigma/lean programs lag behind their competitors in the stock market. My boss did not appreciate me bringing it up during a meeting :lol:

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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
If you paid for the good lean/TPS consultants you would have learned you just rename it for your company so the stock market knows you are large and in charge.

wilderthanmild
Jun 21, 2010

Posting shit




Grimey Drawer

MA-Horus posted:

ok, so legit some of this poo poo DOES work with regards to manufacturing processes. Seriously, some of the kaizens we've done have been really head-scratching, as in "why the gently caress didn't we do this earlier"? Simple poo poo like "Kanban Red/Yellow/Green indicators on raw material boxes to indicate when we should place a resupply order", or "Put order of priority numbers for production orders since everything is stamped RUSH already".

However, for every successfully implemented change I've seen, there've been 10 that failed miserably either due to unrealistic expectations, or lack of will from management/employees.
When you tell employees "follow this new process, it saves us X minutes per part" and they simply say "no" and there's no follow-up, that's weak management.

Outside of manufacturing, in software development specifically, the problem I've noticed most often was that companies often basically make up their own process and call it {insert whatever big name process here}. This would be okay if they treated it like an unproven process they themselves are piloting, but instead they treat as a proven process that shouldn't be questioned or improved.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

That or they cherry-pick parts of the latest fad method and tack them onto their already broken process without actually improving anything.

Doing everything the same lovely way you always did, except you stop commiting to a specification or even project goal and call it "agile", with daily stand-ups at 7:30 because your PM is a sociopath.

Collateral Damage fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Dec 9, 2021

Azuth0667
Sep 20, 2011

By the word of Zoroaster, no business decision is poor when it involves Ahura Mazda.
It still sounds like the consensus is a houseplant could manage a project better than any of those stupid buzzwords.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
The minimum requirement for a management type position is the ability to definitively answer yes or no to steering questions which a houseplant will fail to do. What you really need is a mouse and a maze with two exits.

Thomamelas
Mar 11, 2009

wilderthanmild posted:

Outside of manufacturing, in software development specifically, the problem I've noticed most often was that companies often basically make up their own process and call it {insert whatever big name process here}. This would be okay if they treated it like an unproven process they themselves are piloting, but instead they treat as a proven process that shouldn't be questioned or improved.

The company I work for decided to do Agile reviews. Which basically meant we get reviews twice a year. My boss earned some of brownie points with us when he stood up and asked if that we were getting pay raises twice a year. We are not.

Jack-Off Lantern
Mar 2, 2012

Azuth0667 posted:

It still sounds like the consensus is a houseplant could manage a project better than any of those stupid buzzwords.

I want to see your Venus Flytrap in a suit with tie please somebody talented draw this.

Manufacturing Plant Boss :3

Combo
Aug 19, 2003



They just reworked our COVID policy at work for a positive COVID test.

If you're vaccinated you get paid for up to 7 days, if you're unvaccinated you only get 3 days.

Hope this gets people to get the jab around here but it probably won't.

TotalLossBrain
Oct 20, 2010

Hier graben!
Sounds like fantastic incentive for the unvaccinated infected to drag themselves back to work that much sooner

Zopotantor
Feb 24, 2013

...und ist er drin dann lassen wir ihn niemals wieder raus...

zedprime posted:

The minimum requirement for a management type position is the ability to definitively answer yes or no to steering questions which a houseplant will fail to do. What you really need is a mouse and a maze with two exits.

Or this.

Cthulu Carl
Apr 16, 2006

One of the anti-vaxxer security guards at my office is looking for a new job because my company isn't backing down from their December 31st "Get the loving shot or get the gently caress out, dipshits" deadline. I heard today from someone who talks to him that he's found a new job...


... At AstraZeneca...

... And they require the vaccine too.

Good job, dipshit. You sure showed us.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Cthulu Carl posted:

One of the anti-vaxxer security guards at my office is looking for a new job because my company isn't backing down from their December 31st "Get the loving shot or get the gently caress out, dipshits" deadline. I heard today from someone who talks to him that he's found a new job...
Did he make a huge deal about it on the way out? Because that seems to be the anti-vaxxer way and it continually makes me roll my eyes.

Nobody gives a poo poo about your principled stand for freedom. You're not inspiring the company to change their ways, you're not starting a mass revolt among workers, you're not changing anybody's thinking. All that's going to happen is that your rear end gets fired today, your replacement starts tomorrow, and all your co-workers basically forget you ever existed by next week.

Cthulu Carl
Apr 16, 2006

MagusofStars posted:

Did he make a huge deal about it on the way out? Because that seems to be the anti-vaxxer way and it continually makes me roll my eyes.

Nobody gives a poo poo about your principled stand for freedom. You're not inspiring the company to change their ways, you're not starting a mass revolt among workers, you're not changing anybody's thinking. All that's going to happen is that your rear end gets fired today, your replacement starts tomorrow, and all your co-workers basically forget you ever existed by next week.

I actually don't know because I've learned a valuable skill for maintaining my sanity and my paycheck when I'm in the office now - When I recognize certain voices, I immediately grab my headphones and put some music on for a few minutes.

nvidiagouge
Sep 30, 2021

by Fluffdaddy

Cthulu Carl posted:

I actually don't know because I've learned a valuable skill for maintaining my sanity and my paycheck when I'm in the office now - When I recognize certain voices, I immediately grab my headphones and put some music on for a few minutes.

The grandmaster level of this perk is looking them right in the face while they're talking and nodding with interest while not processing a single word of what they're saying.

ClothHat
Mar 2, 2005

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF THE LUMPEN-GOBLITARIAT
protip: trust no links I post
My boss quit with no notice because the CEO is too horrible to work with and now she's my direct supervisor again ugggggggghhhh :(

CitizenKain
May 27, 2001

That was Gary Cooper, asshole.

Nap Ghost
I actually wonder what my direct supervisor does. I know that they have a lot meetings with other groups, and probably management things, but this guy is something else. A previous manager would still have a one on one once every two weeks, along with a weekly team and weekly group call. Not to mention would just chat occasionally.
This current guy shows up for the team meeting, and then disappears the rest of the week. I haven't talked to him for longer then 5 minutes in over a month. Might even be two by this point. Coworkers say the same, so he's off doing..something?

I don't need someone micromanaging things at all, been there before, but it would be nice to have someone check in occasionally.

nvidiagouge
Sep 30, 2021

by Fluffdaddy

CitizenKain posted:

I actually wonder what my direct supervisor does. I know that they have a lot meetings with other groups, and probably management things, but this guy is something else. A previous manager would still have a one on one once every two weeks, along with a weekly team and weekly group call. Not to mention would just chat occasionally.
This current guy shows up for the team meeting, and then disappears the rest of the week. I haven't talked to him for longer then 5 minutes in over a month. Might even be two by this point. Coworkers say the same, so he's off doing..something?

I don't need someone micromanaging things at all, been there before, but it would be nice to have someone check in occasionally.

My immediate suspicion in a situation like this is that they're preparing some kind of massive reorganization that he's prepping for but I am admittedly traumatized by years of dumb management decisions.

Combo
Aug 19, 2003



TotalLossBrain posted:

Sounds like fantastic incentive for the unvaccinated infected to drag themselves back to work that much sooner

They have to have a clean covid test and then its 5 or 10 days after before they can return to work, so that's helpful at least.

bred
Oct 24, 2008

CitizenKain posted:

so he's off doing..something?

It's me and I'm playing with my daughter or walking the dog.

KinkyJohn
Sep 19, 2002

Head of marketing came around while I was wearing a mask in an open office environment with lots of people around. Completely maskless he smugly said boy you sure are taking this covid thing seriously huh? I said "yep."

He's not at work today because he has covid. What a loving champ.

Killmaster
Jun 18, 2002

Super Waffle posted:

My old company were absolute bastards with payment terms. 90 days from date of invoice, but we also had a lovely thing in the fine print we called the Discount Chain. See, we give ourselves 90 days to pay your invoice, but if we go extra fast and pay you within 30 days, we give ourselves a 1.5% discount. If we manage to pay you in 15 days, we give ourselves a 3% discount!

I used to work in AP at a large online retailer. Standard practice was to always take the payment terms discount from the contract, no matter how late the invoice was paid, and then force the vendor to jump through a bunch of hoops to get the discount reversed.

Grimdude
Sep 25, 2006

It was a shame how he carried on
I've always found it odd that terms or theories or whatever like lean sigma six exist when the principles feel like they should already exist.

I'm probably not explaining this well, but shouldn't reducing waste and repetition just be the default? Are they not already aware that minimizing errors and waste is good?

CitizenKain
May 27, 2001

That was Gary Cooper, asshole.

Nap Ghost

nvidiagouge posted:

My immediate suspicion in a situation like this is that they're preparing some kind of massive reorganization that he's prepping for but I am admittedly traumatized by years of dumb management decisions.

Already some of those around with department shuffles. He came from a huge company and I think is used to having a lot of people who manage that part.

Or more likely, he only took the job because it paid him to move to the southwest and he's near retirement age.

Otto Octopus
Aug 12, 2009

MagusofStars posted:

Did he make a huge deal about it on the way out? Because that seems to be the anti-vaxxer way and it continually makes me roll my eyes.

Nobody gives a poo poo about your principled stand for freedom. You're not inspiring the company to change their ways, you're not starting a mass revolt among workers, you're not changing anybody's thinking. All that's going to happen is that your rear end gets fired today, your replacement starts tomorrow, and all your co-workers basically forget you ever existed by next week.

Today we got a pages-long screed emailed to the company that was exactly this. Among the highlights: company is forcing you to get the “mark of the beast”. Also COVID is no worse than the flu :rolleyes: The company is also apparently denying her personal freedoms, religious freedoms, and medical exclusions. I’m just like, well which one is it?

Like regardless of whether she has valid points or not, it’s couched in the energy of “I’m gonna lead the workers revolution against the MARK OF THE BEAST”

very first reply was just a company wide email that said “bye bye”

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

KinkyJohn posted:

Head of marketing came around while I was wearing a mask in an open office environment with lots of people around. Completely maskless he smugly said boy you sure are taking this covid thing seriously huh? I said "yep."

He's not at work today because he has covid. What a loving champ.

Guy I knew in high school moved to change which city he worked for to avoid a vaccine mandate. His wife is providing daily FB updates about his ventilator and oxygen levels. Dude isn't 40 yet.

nvidiagouge
Sep 30, 2021

by Fluffdaddy

CitizenKain posted:

Already some of those around with department shuffles. He came from a huge company and I think is used to having a lot of people who manage that part.

Or more likely, he only took the job because it paid him to move to the southwest and he's near retirement age.

There are managers out there smart enough not to gently caress with something when it's working, maybe you finally got your unicorn haha.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Grimdude posted:

I've always found it odd that terms or theories or whatever like lean sigma six exist when the principles feel like they should already exist.

I'm probably not explaining this well, but shouldn't reducing waste and repetition just be the default? Are they not already aware that minimizing errors and waste is good?
Actually I love waste.

The appeal of something like Lean is that it agrees with you that waste is bad and then gives you a list of things other people have done to reduce waste that you can try. It's not all getting high with a guru in a yurt at a corporate retreat discussing business philosophy.

TotalLossBrain
Oct 20, 2010

Hier graben!

Hyrax Attack! posted:

Guy I knew in high school moved to change which city he worked for to avoid a vaccine mandate. His wife is providing daily FB updates about his ventilator and oxygen levels. Dude isn't 40 yet.

:allears:

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.



Bread Liar

CitizenKain posted:

I actually wonder what my direct supervisor does. I know that they have a lot meetings with other groups, and probably management things, but this guy is something else. A previous manager would still have a one on one once every two weeks, along with a weekly team and weekly group call. Not to mention would just chat occasionally.
This current guy shows up for the team meeting, and then disappears the rest of the week. I haven't talked to him for longer then 5 minutes in over a month. Might even be two by this point. Coworkers say the same, so he's off doing..something?

I don't need someone micromanaging things at all, been there before, but it would be nice to have someone check in occasionally.

They're schmoozing up to their bosses, trying to get a promotion.

Thomamelas
Mar 11, 2009

JnnyThndrs posted:

90 days? That’s terrible, I work for state government, notorious for being slow payers, and we generally pay within 60. Even at 60 days, the vendors(quite reasonably) grumble about it, I can’t imagine having to regularly deal with a 90 day level of anger.

Government agencies slow pay. But it's not malicious. It's just the slowness of bureaucracy. Corporations also slow pay but will treat you like poo poo. I've literally been called a deadbeat because I pointed out that they were 30 days past due. And a lecture that I should learn to budget better. Did I mention that it was causing me financial issues? Nope. Just the usual AP person bullshit.

nvidiagouge
Sep 30, 2021

by Fluffdaddy

Thomamelas posted:

Government agencies slow pay. But it's not malicious. It's just the slowness of bureaucracy. Corporations also slow pay but will treat you like poo poo. I've literally been called a deadbeat because I pointed out that they were 30 days past due. And a lecture that I should learn to budget better. Did I mention that it was causing me financial issues? Nope. Just the usual AP person bullshit.

Yeah I work for the feds and one of the things we do regularly and well is pay. Yes, it takes a bit, but you can count on it happening with no bullshit after the contract is signed.

Azuth0667
Sep 20, 2011

By the word of Zoroaster, no business decision is poor when it involves Ahura Mazda.

zedprime posted:

The minimum requirement for a management type position is the ability to definitively answer yes or no to steering questions which a houseplant will fail to do. What you really need is a mouse and a maze with two exits.

Human management doesn't even do that. Open trap = yes, closed trap = no. Venus flytrap still has them beat.

Azuth0667
Sep 20, 2011

By the word of Zoroaster, no business decision is poor when it involves Ahura Mazda.

Jack-Off Lantern posted:

I want to see your Venus Flytrap in a suit with tie please somebody talented draw this.

Manufacturing Plant Boss :3

Paging applewhite.

pumped up for school
Nov 24, 2010

nvidiagouge posted:

Yeah I work for the feds and one of the things we do regularly and well is pay. Yes, it takes a bit, but you can count on it happening with no bullshit after the contract is signed.

I work for a very small, very niche consultancy / subcontractor. Too small for our own "on call" legal for every contract. Which means I review my own, but can kick it up if I really have to. It is my least favorite aspect of my job.

The only time I will sign a >60 day contract is if my client is directly contracted to gov't. Because while it will be slow, I know they'll get paid.

New clients are Net 30. Good clients, there's usually an MSA. Recent repeat clients w/o an MSA maybe they get 45-60 days. Instant refuse to sign any "pay when paid." And I've lost several clients to it. I'm not a bank. The most offensive ones are the "within 30+ days of payment from client" which just means they are making interest off your money.

The reverse discount / penalty for timely payments I've seen people try to sneak in just a couple of times. I don't need a discount for doing my job on time and you doing me the favor (?) or paying me for services rendered.

I did have one poo poo-rear end company this year, new client, try 2 things: change the payment structure of a contract from unit rates to time and expenses rate after the proposal, and that got signed. Then they argued about our payment terms (their recommended insert was weird archaic language like "the 4th day of the fourth month") and demanded a revision to the contract. That revision took a month of back and forth. So I billed them for my admin time. Told them my hands were tied now that we're on T&M.

impossiboobs
Oct 2, 2006

Thomamelas posted:

Government agencies slow pay. But it's not malicious. It's just the slowness of bureaucracy. Corporations also slow pay but will treat you like poo poo. I've literally been called a deadbeat because I pointed out that they were 30 days past due. And a lecture that I should learn to budget better. Did I mention that it was causing me financial issues? Nope. Just the usual AP person bullshit.

I am the AP dept at my office, and the owners want us to pay everything at 60 days (before I was there they did 75) even though the terms we signed almost always say 30. Luckily, my boss isn't an idiot (and has to fight with the owners every day about spending money on things that are necessary), so I have some leeway. If a vendor asks about payment status, I tell them the date we plan to pay (usually @ 60 days) and most will just accept that and be happy that they have a date. The AR people often don't care if they're in a big enough company, they just want to be able to tell their boss "I called them, they'll pay next Wednesday". If they come back and say that's not fast enough, I tell them we pay 60 days by default (and I also tell them I think it's dumb as hell but my hands are kind of tied), but the owners will make exceptions if the vendor kicks up a fuss, so I'll just put you on the "made a fuss" list and you'll be paid at 30 days. I can't do it for every vendor, but I have found a balance.

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.

pumped up for school posted:

"within 30+ days of payment from client"

Typo or does this literally make no promises whatsoever?

smellmycheese
Feb 1, 2016

https://twitter.com/VeryBadLlama/status/1469756987105763333

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Atopian posted:

Typo or does this literally make no promises whatsoever?

This is a typical lovely B2B term. You, the person buying/contracting from a business and selling to a client is saying that you won't pay your vendor for the job they did on your behalf until 30 days after your client pays you.

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deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

I'm applying for jobs. Last month I applied as the director of ecommerce for this place and didn't get the job but the company's values were really impressive, they were all about maintaining a healthy work-life balance, etc. The application was pretty painless.

This month they have a new posting for basically one step down from that role, managing a specific subset of the business's ecommerce. Okay, cool, that's more in line with my experience, so I go to apply again.

This time I had to take a 60 question questionnaire full of questions like:


:thunk:

Other questions were things like a choice between

"I appreciate new opportunities at work"
and
"I would never use sick time if I'm not actually feeling sick."

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Dec 13, 2021

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