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Rainbow Knight posted:ah I understand then As a PvE catgirl convert I also want to add to this - Shadowbane. It was awful. It was also amazing. There were no 'PvE' servers, it was a shitshow of bad code and PvP but actually terrific class/race designs, interesting mechanics, and, surprisingly, it worked, for a certain definition of work. Ultimately it was underfunded and the definition of 'works' was too narrow to succeed in the market, but man, that game has some good times too. It wasn't DAoC, but it was a good time for a while
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Dec 10, 2021 08:57
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squirrelzipper posted:As a PvE catgirl convert I also want to add to this - Shadowbane. It was awful. It was also amazing. There were no 'PvE' servers, it was a shitshow of bad code and PvP but actually terrific class/race designs, interesting mechanics, and, surprisingly, it worked, for a certain definition of work. Ultimately it was underfunded and the definition of 'works' was too narrow to succeed in the market, but man, that game has some good times too. It wasn't DAoC, but it was a good time for a while And the spirtual successor to it, Crowfall is just as janky, awful, and amazing. It also launched with fewer bugs than New World. lol and lmao.
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Dec 10, 2021 10:30
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I love how crowfalls launch was so bad they just kinda gave up
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Dec 10, 2021 10:32
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JuffoWup posted:Interview with new world lead:
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Dec 10, 2021 11:58
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GaylordButts posted:5 of the top 6 games by players on Steam right now are PvP only, and the other is New World. They might have tricked a large amount of PvE players into buying the game, but I'm pretty sure all those people nearly immediately quit because the PvE is dogshit in New World, and steamcharts seems to bare that out. You could have an argument about the value of these initial sales versus the damage to their brand, a lot of people who knew nothing about AGS definitely have an opinion about them now, but it's impossible to quantify that sort of thing. I have a hard time buying "the game would be DOA if it was PvP only." What do you think this list would look like if all MMOs were Steam exclusive? New World is in the top 10 purely because it's a hyped MMO - PVP games are popular, but PVP MMOs are not.
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Dec 10, 2021 11:59
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BadLlama posted:I wish pvp games got as much money and support that new world got over the last 18 months but instead we get small sub $10 million dollar budgets then people go lol see pvp doesn't work. open world pvp is bad. No one who isn’t the one ganking likes it. And if you are one of the rare people who enjoys the potential for pvp funnies, there are like 18 of you tops. I’m sorry. You will never get a game with more than 10 million dollar budget in your lifetime. And even then battle Royales have solved the open world pvp formula by resetting it every game. So anyone who is gonna make a persistent world with open pvp is just gonna make a Battle Royale anyways.
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Dec 10, 2021 16:45
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Rexicon1 posted:open world pvp is bad. No one who isn’t the one ganking likes it. And if you are one of the rare people who enjoys the potential for pvp funnies, there are like 18 of you tops. I’m sorry. You will never get a game with more than 10 million dollar budget in your lifetime. And even then battle Royales have solved the open world pvp formula by resetting it every game. So anyone who is gonna make a persistent world with open pvp is just gonna make a Battle Royale anyways. You are 100% wrong but it is okay to keep telling the world no one likes it if it makes you feel better.
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Dec 10, 2021 16:59
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BadLlama posted:You are 100% wrong but it is okay to keep telling the world no one likes it if it makes you feel better. Lol eat my rear end bitch. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 10, 2021 17:03
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Rexicon1 posted:Lol eat my rear end bitch. When and where?
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Dec 10, 2021 17:13
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It’d be nice if they had arenas attached to the cities for ffa pvp. I won’t flag because why would I do that pre-60 but if there was a relatively penalty free spot near each city to just gently caress around and launch life bolts at people before getting clocked I’d enjoy that.
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Dec 10, 2021 17:28
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BadLlama posted:When and where? 
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Dec 10, 2021 17:29
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LuckyCat posted:It’d be nice if they had arenas attached to the cities for ffa pvp. I won’t flag because why would I do that pre-60 but if there was a relatively penalty free spot near each city to just gently caress around and launch life bolts at people before getting clocked I’d enjoy that. Flagging pre 60 was the only way I had the 3 fun fights in the game that I did.
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Dec 10, 2021 17:35
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Reset the New World thread meltdown clock.
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Dec 10, 2021 17:36
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I'd argue that whalebait gacha/service games might have consumed parts of the audience for open world pvp MMORPGs. It's much more efficient/rewarding to buy your way into power, because this way you don't really have to worry about fair fights at all. And the F2P-Prey doesn't really mind it that much or get frustrated with it either, since they have a mutually beneficial relationships with the people that pay for the game. It neatly solves the problem of gankers potentially getting ganked if they can just buy their way into more unfair advantages. All you gotta add is a few incentives, like some account bound currencies that the F2P crowd can collect, and the prey will happily join up to get the crap kicked out of them for a few minutes. And people that want a good and fair fight between players might not be interested in playing loot/level based MMORPGs to begin with. Fighting Games/FPS or other more action focused genres, as well as everything inbetween provide plenty of differing online experiences that allow you to have fair fights. Without the progression grinding. There's a market for pvp, sure, but the geniuses at Amazon that had to learn the hard way about the problems with full player loot were probably not the ones that are going to crack the code. Zwiebel fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Dec 10, 2021 |
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Dec 10, 2021 17:38
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Dec 10, 2021 17:41
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causticBeet posted:PvP required zones that ignore faction would be really fun. They wouldn’t even need to have “better” loot or resources, just be another option for 66 content. The Division does this and I understand it to be a popular part of the game (though it does have better loot).
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Dec 10, 2021 17:47
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Merrill Grinch posted:Reset the New World thread meltdown clock. lol you need higher standards for meltdowns. This thread has given some of the greatest meltdowns in MMOHMO history. You deserve better.
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Dec 10, 2021 18:15
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I was confused by that reply and wasted several minutes going a few pages back hoping for that sweet sweet fix.
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Dec 10, 2021 18:21
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Rexicon1 posted:open world pvp is bad. No one who isn’t the one ganking likes it. And if you are one of the rare people who enjoys the potential for pvp funnies, there are like 18 of you tops. I’m sorry. You will never get a game with more than 10 million dollar budget in your lifetime. And even then battle Royales have solved the open world pvp formula by resetting it every game. So anyone who is gonna make a persistent world with open pvp is just gonna make a Battle Royale anyways. or they'll make rust
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Dec 10, 2021 18:30
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The last time I played open world PvP was in vanilla World of Warcraft back in 2005. I played a mage back then, which meant I was the gank victim 99% of the time, especially while leveling. I still have nightmares about questing in Stranglethorn Vale and getting one-shot by level 60 rogues, who would then proceed to spam the /cry and /dance emotes and then corpse-camp me. I did not enjoy the experience at all, and haven't played an open-world PvP game since then. I'm slowly leveling in New World and haven't turned on the PvP flag even once. I'm hoping that by the time I reach level 60, there will be a fair amount of compelling end-game PvE content. If not, oh well. It's not like the game has a monthly subscription, and I already feel like at 40 hours played I've gotten my money's worth.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:26
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Wow is probably the worst open world pvp game because almost none of the systems are designed to support it. When every mechanic encourages you to play solo and stay hyper focused on the critical path, PvP ends up being a nuisance and an afterthought. One of the big requirements for having a good open world pvp game is a heavy emphasis on horizontal progression - when “higher level == bigger number” and there’s no additional nuance you get lovely pvp like wow where being lower level is basically a static “you lose” condition.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:55
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You haven't had the full open world PvP experience until you've been PKd in deceit. Break the bone knight wall and watch them crumble or gently caress with someone until the Lich Lord kills them.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:55
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causticBeet posted:Wow is probably the worst open world pvp game because almost none of the systems are designed to support it. When every mechanic encourages you to play solo and stay hyper focused on the critical path, PvP ends up being a nuisance and an afterthought. Speaking of systems to support it, I felt like world pvp should just be like the little forts in Hellfire Peninsula, or any other objective like that. Keep pvp locked into certain areas around and people are kept out of each other's way.
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Dec 10, 2021 22:25
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Open world pvp games exist and thrive, they are BRs and multiplayer survival games. You could make an amazing hardcore full loot pvp mmo for comparatively not a lot, you just have to go into it knowing you're making a smaller game for a subniche audience, which investors don't wanna hear. Even the larger MMO market is peanuts compared to the actual moneymakers, like mobile games or CoD and such.
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Dec 10, 2021 23:24
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Open world pvp games exist and thrive, they are BRs and multiplayer survival games. You also have to go into the mindset for it to work. As said, progression needs to be more side grade and less of a vertical movement. Ark as mentioned is one I have played and agree thinking of it. Dieing in that game was just "welp, gotta craft a new set of armor and spear". But it wasn't a big deal. Really good one off drops weren't used unless you had odds in your favor or in the case of the rifle, used for harder tames. Blueprints were prized because then you could recraft said lost items and were where the real progression happened. Levels was mostly just unlocking new crafting recipes. Any stat increase was minimal as there were trade offs. This is why I was wondering if the crafting system as seen including its output was how it played out in the alpha where full loot pvp did exist. Because if dieing meant you had to play gambling roulette to get similar gear back, no one is going to be subscribed for long.
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Dec 10, 2021 23:34
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RE: ARPGs I'm looking forward to Diablo 4, although it's not coming out in 2022. I hope we get PoE 2 sometime next year.
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Dec 10, 2021 23:57
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Slow News Day posted:RE: ARPGs I'm not judging you by any metric, but I for one can't spend a single cent on actiblizzard ever again. That and while I enjoyed D3, it's very flawed and was more flawed when it came out
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Dec 11, 2021 00:03
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JuffoWup posted:You also have to go into the mindset for it to work. As said, progression needs to be more side grade and less of a vertical movement. Ark as mentioned is one I have played and agree thinking of it. Dieing in that game was just "welp, gotta craft a new set of armor and spear". But it wasn't a big deal. Really good one off drops weren't used unless you had odds in your favor or in the case of the rifle, used for harder tames. Blueprints were prized because then you could recraft said lost items and were where the real progression happened. Levels was mostly just unlocking new crafting recipes. Any stat increase was minimal as there were trade offs. What it boils down to is the MMO model, being a forever game with static stuff that you play with and grind for, is antithetical to how most people like their pvp games: a relatively even playing field that you can drop in and out of. You don't really even gain a whole lot by shoving them together. You can have huge multiplayer battles in stuff like planetside or battle royales without the vertical progression that is a staple of mmos.
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Dec 11, 2021 00:07
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:What it boils down to is the MMO model, being a forever game with static stuff that you play with and grind for, is antithetical to how most people like their pvp games: a relatively even playing field that you can drop in and out of. You don't really even gain a whole lot by shoving them together. You can have huge multiplayer battles in stuff like planetside or battle royales without the vertical progression that is a staple of mmos. Pretty much this, and you also have an issue with competing mindsets. pvpers want to jump in and be able to immediately pvp, and pvp is generally best when done on a level playing field. Mmoers are used to the whole grind to become more powerful then wreck poo poo at max level mmo thing, and get real care mad when some dude with 40 hours played runs by and clowns on them. I think NW actually had pretty good potential to strike a balance and then devs hosed around with the equalizing system rip
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Dec 11, 2021 00:42
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Jack-Off Lantern posted:I'm not judging you by any metric, but I for one can't spend a single cent on actiblizzard ever again. I work in finance and I always have a streaming quote for ATVI up because I just want to see them plummet. 
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Dec 11, 2021 00:53
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I was a massive griefer in UO back when I was 14, unfortunately I matured
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Dec 11, 2021 03:26
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I went through all that trouble to get rid of the nazis, and yall went and blew up US East!? Edit: oh. i hoped for a minute everyone was free
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Dec 11, 2021 03:33
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:What it boils down to is the MMO model, being a forever game with static stuff that you play with and grind for, is antithetical to how most people like their pvp games: a relatively even playing field that you can drop in and out of. You don't really even gain a whole lot by shoving them together. You can have huge multiplayer battles in stuff like planetside or battle royales without the vertical progression that is a staple of mmos. You can. But the market size holds you back. And Eve Online pretty much has an iron grip on it. That is technically a full loot pvp mmorpg. But the game was built to limit and control the scope in battles. A player that spends more of their xp time on mining barges to maximize rock munching isn't going to be as good in a rifter as the guy that spend all their xp time on it. However, the differences are relatively small and is still skill based (there literally videos and training for such things as how to get close to point a ship in an interceptor/frigate while maximizing angular velocity to minimize damage from turret tracking). Again on equipment, everyone's rifter is the same. There isn't a variation from higher ship building skills or anything. Same goes with the equipment. It all has a very fixed set of stats. But as said, the market size for that genre is pretty small. Seen by the fact that CCP eventually sold themselves from being an independent studio to eventually landing up as a subsidiary of Tencent.
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Dec 11, 2021 03:39
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I mean, league of legends has both the “drop in and out whenever you want” and also meta progression right? So clearly it’s possible to have both as long as you make sure you pitch players of similar level against each other. In an MMO, maybe this could come in the form of PVP zones that are level capped? That way players at all level ranges feel like they can contribute to the war effort, rather than be cannon fodder.
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Dec 11, 2021 04:01
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I mean I'm really surprised that Great Cleave, Edengrove and Shat Mt. aren't forced PvP zones in a PvP-focused game but 
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Dec 11, 2021 04:02
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Slow News Day posted:I mean, league of legends has both the “drop in and out whenever you want” and also meta progression right? So clearly it’s possible to have both as long as you make sure you pitch players of similar level against each other. League of Legends also boasts an incredibly toxic community and while I'm sure there are multiple factors there, one of the most frustrating parts of the experience was that absolutely terrible matchmaking in terms of skill parity between/across teams. I haven't touched it in years so maybe it's improved but when I do come across anything about LoL or Riot it's usually in a very negative context. Also, It's still Friday primetime in the US and NW currently has 85k online. loving lol. Reminds me of a place I worked years ago where the store was losing thousands of $ a month but they just sucked up the loss to save the embarrassment of admitting that they had made a horrible choice in location. Vorenus fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Dec 11, 2021 |
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Dec 11, 2021 04:11
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Because this is now my poo poo posting thread, here is the legal poo poo from myth of empires https://www.docdroid.net/JKdB6BG/031136862283-pdf https://www.docdroid.net/rC1n4uJ/031136862284-pdf
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Dec 11, 2021 04:59
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Thats a bummer, I was looking forward to mount and blade but Chinese and multiplayer
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Dec 11, 2021 05:10
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BadLlama posted:Thats a bummer, I was looking forward to mount and blade but Chinese and multiplayer My man have I a game for you. I hope you like your UI to look like a pachinko parlour. https://store.steampowered.com/app/567630/Blood_of_Steel/
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Dec 11, 2021 05:11
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Hows that different than conquers blade?
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Dec 11, 2021 05:26
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