|
Brawnfire posted:Except DS9 and Voyager, who used the TNG designs, which were arguably quite similar to the TOS films... ENT kept the design and even went out of it's way to explain TOS Klingons! And I thought it was pretty clever even.
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 00:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 15:31 |
|
|
Lower Decks Klingons are just TNG also It's really just the TOS movies that did the work (and the JJverse but that barely counts)
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 00:07
|
|
|
I'm not sure why Disco is going out of their way to pretend that Klingons don't exist in the future now They did the big galactic meeting and I think the only notable AQ race not represented were the Klingons
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 00:08
|
|
|
Eimi posted:ENT kept the design and even went out of it's way to explain TOS Klingons! And I thought it was pretty clever even. Right! I literally forgot entirely about ENT in that post lmao
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 00:19
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I'm not sure why Disco is going out of their way to pretend that Klingons don't exist in the future now It's because everyone hates the new Klingons and they don't have a easy explanation for reverting them, so just don't show them. They could just do it and no one would care but 
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 00:40
|
|
|
They redid the Klingon makeup at the beginning of Season 2
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 00:48
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I'm not sure why Disco is going out of their way to pretend that Klingons don't exist in the future now According to Enterprise, the Klingons join the Federation by the 2400s. Maybe though the writers got gunshy because of the massive shitstorm that erupted from the last time they tried to do anything with them on Discovery and were just like "Ya know, gently caress that noise."
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 01:14
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:They redid the Klingon makeup at the beginning of Season 2 They could keep tweaking it. Honestly just giving them 80s metal hair again was an enormous improvement.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 01:35
|
|
|
It's challenging to include Klingons when your only recipe for resolving a central conflict is a hugfest. The first time we'll get to see a Klingon will be some storyline about identity and self discovery, like a Klingon who wants to pen a cupcake shop or something. Not really cupcakes, but something that can be explained by a lazy cupcake analogy. The B story is gonna have a lot of unexplained ultraviolence. Love this show Haramstufe Rot fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Jan 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 01:43
|
|
|
Haramstufe Rot posted:It's challenging to include Klingons when your only recipe for resolving a central conflict is a hugfest. The first time we'll get to see a Klingon will be some storyline about identity and self discovery, like a Klingon who wants to pen a cupcake shop or something. Not really cupcakes, but something that can be explained by a lazy cupcake analogy. Burnham murdered the leader of a galaxy wide cartel last season and it immediately fell apart so violence is the solution.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 02:00
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I'm not sure why Disco is going out of their way to pretend that Klingons don't exist in the future now My half-baked theory is that they expect Worf to show up in Picard and don't want to have two different types of Klingon makeup on shows airing at the same time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 02:26
|
|
|
socialsecurity posted:Burnham murdered the leader of a galaxy wide cartel last season and it immediately fell apart so violence is the solution. The Crimson Dawn follows absolute cognatic Imperial gavelkind. One well placed assassination and "boom".
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 02:34
|
|
|
The Bloop posted:Lower Decks Klingons are just TNG also Ma'ah looks like he has the "cord only, no plates" look of TMP Klingons. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 02:49
|
|
|
DaveKap posted:When I watched the first two episodes of Discovery I thought "holy poo poo, we're straight up gonna get, like, a movie version of Trek but as a TV show. This is gonna be nuts!" Little did I know they blew a ton of budget to create what was essentially a pilot movie that the rest of the show could never really live up to. Nah. You knew it in your heart. Search your feeli^H^H^H^H^Hwrong franchise. The Bloop posted:Sure ok (not actually true) but like most things with discovery the problem is that the changes are very bad instead of cool and good Case in point, the TOS films arguably changed them more than Discovery did, both in terms of appearance and culture, and it was very cool and good. Haramstufe Rot posted:Love this show Not sure if joking.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 03:11
|
|
|
Peachfart posted:They could just do it and no one would care but You're posting in a thread where people complain about things that didn't even happen in the show they are complaining about
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 05:33
|
|
|
I have a feeling they're gonna save the Klingons for the final season of Discovery... and try to do a 'full circle' ending with a long-descendent of the House of T'Kuvma or something.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 05:41
|
|
|
They missed their big chance when they didn't have the Klingons holding the torch as Federation members when even Earth had left and used that to bookend season one.Hipster_Doofus posted:Case in point, the TOS films arguably changed them more than Discovery did, both in terms of appearance and culture, and it was very cool and good. But there's a big difference to changing them when they'd been in three episodes and when they'd been in hundreds of episodes and become the most fleshed out race in the show.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 05:45
|
|
|
It’s just weird when you have a scene with Vulcans, Romulans, Andorians, Ferengi, Cardassians, and even Xindi in the room, but no Klingons
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 05:49
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:It’s just weird when you have a scene with Vulcans, Romulans, Andorians, Ferengi, Cardassians, and even Xindi in the room, but no Klingons Another explanation could be "Hey, the Burn made a lot of people go crazy and self-destruct" and if there's one species in Star Trek that I'd put near the top of the list as likely to exterminate itself under the right bad conditions, it'd be the Klingons... But then again I'm not writing this show, so who knows what they're gonna go with.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 05:54
|
|
|
ALL Klingons are monks now. They really like making Klingons into monks so here we go, all of them are monks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 06:10
|
|
|
Klingons got way into LARPing and now all of them just chill on Kronos and pretend it's Klingon Skyrim.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 06:34
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:Another explanation could be "Hey, the Burn made a lot of people go crazy and self-destruct" and if there's one species in Star Trek that I'd put near the top of the list as likely to exterminate itself under the right bad conditions, it'd be the Klingons...
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 14:08
|
|
|
Haramstufe Rot posted:It's challenging to include Klingons when your only recipe for resolving a central conflict is a hugfest. The first time we'll get to see a Klingon will be some storyline about identity and self discovery, like a Klingon who wants to pen a cupcake shop or something. Not really cupcakes, but something that can be explained by a lazy cupcake analogy. Blood cupcakes 
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 14:31
|
|
|
Charity Porno posted:You're posting in a thread where people complain about things that didn't even happen in the show they are complaining about Like good episodes. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 14:33
|
|
|
8one6 posted:Klingons got way into LARPing and now all of them just chill on Kronos and pretend it's Klingon Skyrim. I imagine them coming across that renfair planet from Lower Decks and thinking "actually, that's way closer to what we're about than this dying to a hull breech or a radiation leak bullshit, let's do this instead"
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 14:35
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:That’s perfectly fine, but they haven’t even mentioned offhand what has happened to them Imagine having the Xindi in an episode before the loving Klingons Madness
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 15:08
|
|
|
Brawnfire posted:I imagine them coming across that renfair planet from Lower Decks and thinking "actually, that's way closer to what we're about than this dying to a hull breech or a radiation leak bullshit, let's do this instead" Also I realized that planet is an Enterprise reference, from the episode where Orions try to take over the ship, they are lured to a planet that has very large flying reptillians, and given it's close to what would become Federation space I can easily see that as the site of the Renfair planet.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 15:25
|
|
|
I still maintain that the best thing the Disco after S3 can do, is make itself a time loop that never happened, or expose itself as an alternative timeline. I mean come on, it still says that whatever happened in PIC or LDS or in the other shows will collapse. Even the future parts of ENT do not mean anything since Burn will collapse everything and anything done before is meaningless in the long run.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 22:11
|
|
|
Der Kyhe posted:I still maintain that the best thing the Disco after S3 can do, is make itself a time loop that never happened, or expose itself as an alternative timeline. On a long enough timeline, this is true of anything really. So I'm not sure I've ever understood this sort of criticism. It doesn't diminish the past events.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 23:48
|
|
|
It makes everything a prequel and that's limiting and unsatisfying
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2022 23:58
|
|
|
Pretty silly self-inflicted perspective.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2022 00:38
|
|
|
It doesn't bother me to be honest...it's so far out in the future, and there's nothing stopping Trek from just retconning it down the road
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2022 00:44
|
|
|
I just finished watching Paths of Glory followed by Saving Private Ryan and that all makes sense but then I read the newspaper and, what the gently caress? Germany are leaders in a "European Union" and this is presented as a peaceful good thing? It really ruins the work that was established before. At least England is still opposed to the Germany hegemony. So, I guess they are the good guys?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2022 00:44
|
|
|
Khanstant posted:Pretty silly self-inflicted perspective. Me? Yeah you can hand wave and retcon but jumping centuries ahead with the low level of give a poo poo evidenced by the discovery writers means that you'll have to do that if you want to write any meaningful or major changes to tech level or alpha quadrant races in the in-between time It's not that prequels are necessarily bad, but unless great care is being taken (it's not) they're necessarily limited Star Trek always dealing with possible futures is one out, but that will further balkanize the franchise unnecessarily. There's a big difference between an episode or movie being "alternate" and a whole series. It's just not great stewardship of the property, imo
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2022 00:52
|
|
|
The important thing about Star Trek isn’t consistency or canon or the relations between shows. It’s that the show actually be good. If the show is good Star Trek fans can make up rationalizations for how it all fits together. But that’s contingent on the show being any good in the first place. Nobody gives a gently caress that Discovery had Spock on it, how does this fit into ~canon~ except the hacks who write the show.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2022 01:35
|
|
|
skasion posted:The important thing about Star Trek isn’t consistency or canon or the relations between shows. It’s that the show actually be good. If the show is good Star Trek fans can make up rationalizations for how it all fits together. But that’s contingent on the show being any good in the first place. Nobody gives a gently caress that Discovery had Spock on it, how does this fit into ~canon~ except the hacks who write the show. Not empty quote
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2022 01:38
|
|
|
skasion posted:The important thing about Star Trek isn’t consistency or canon or the relations between shows. It’s that the show actually be good. If the show is good Star Trek fans can make up rationalizations for how it all fits together. But that’s contingent on the show being any good in the first place. Nobody gives a gently caress that Discovery had Spock on it, how does this fit into ~canon~ except the hacks who write the show. I am in no way claiming that's the most important thing. It's not not important, though. If you don't want to fit your show into a larger universe, don't set it in one. Thing is, not loving up continuity doesn't make your show worse. You can do both things. Discovery isn't doing either thing, though. Every change and retcon would be forgiven if the show was amazing, but they're like an additional stick in the eye when the show is mediocre to bad
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2022 01:42
|
|
|
My point is that the joyless search for consistency with Previously Released Star Trek Product (as interpreted by network tv producers rather than by wiki nerds) is part of what made the show poo poo in the first place. It’s not enough to have a show about exploring strange new worlds, it has to have Klingons and Vulcans and deltas on the shirts and Harcourt loving Mudd. Discovery is not the first Trek show to try and pull this self-referential bullshit. It was the original sin of Enterprise that poisoned everything that show did.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2022 01:52
|
|
|
"It has to have X" is also a shaggy dog. Like, modern Trek is all about green skinned sex-crazed Orions. Those didn't exist during the TNG/DS9 era, unsure about Voyager since I didn't watch. Like, Star Trek is about optimism and exploration.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2022 01:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 15:31 |
|
|
For me consistency is more like (for one example) having a general understanding of the capabilities and more importantly the limitations of extant technologies because that's pretty important for meaningful storytelling in a setting like Trek. The same can be said for the relationship between civilizations, the general layout of the trek map/ powers that be, and the social and technological advancements between eras. An established setting gives you an amazing baseline to work from, or to, you know, poo poo all over Telling good stories is by far the most important thing, we all agree on that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2022 02:10
|
|