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Oenis posted:
Smite was a mistake on multiple levels, god I hate that card.
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Jan 6, 2022 16:51
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NorgLyle posted:There was a point where Bloodmage Thalnos was almost universally agreed on as the 'perfect Legendary card' because he was impactful and useful in almost every deck without feeling like he swung entire games based on who drew him on curve. Now, I can't think of the last competitive deck that I've seen that includes him because the power level of cards and the need for them to have immediate in-game effect is so much higher. While it doesn't detract from your point Thalnos is played in Fel DH.
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Jan 6, 2022 17:02
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Mayveena posted:They have somewhere around 100M players, give or take 20M? There's simply no way for them to know every single interaction that those players can come up with. And once one person knows it, basically everyone knows it. I'm happy that this team actively does balance changes. The original Team 5 wanted to pretend like there wasn't a meta and the game was way less fun then. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell they have anything close to 100M active players. I know that wasn't your overarching point, but yeah. Blizzard don't talk player numbers, they just release milestones of people who have downloaded and played one time. It's useless and misleading. Excluding China, a more realistic guess would be sub 5 million log in once per month.
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Jan 6, 2022 17:41
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Blizzard publishes its MAUs across all titles and they were at 29 million monthly active users for 2020. Quite a lot of that has to be HS though it's not like anyone plays OW HotS or Starcraft anymore.
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Jan 6, 2022 17:47
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I'm really enjoying this meta. Feels more like when I lose to something I want to try the deck rather than growing bored that I've lost to the same deck in the same way over and over again.
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Jan 6, 2022 18:10
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Jeza posted:There isn't a snowball's chance in hell they have anything close to 100M active players. I know that wasn't your overarching point, but yeah. Blizzard don't talk player numbers, they just release milestones of people who have downloaded and played one time. It's useless and misleading. OK so clearly they have fallen since the last data that I saw, and we all know why. Point is still made that trying to dev for what millions of players could come up with is not possible. E: Here is a post where they said they had 100M users of HS back in 2018. Keep in mind as they are finding out now, publicly lying about numbers is a big no no with the SEC. https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...%9D%20said%20J. Mayveena fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jan 6, 2022 |
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Jan 6, 2022 18:19
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Regarding Thief Rogue, I’ve never seen this chart look this lopsided. It’s going to get nerfs. 
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Jan 6, 2022 18:37
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Mayveena posted:E: Here is a post where they said they had 100M users of HS back in 2018. Keep in mind as they are finding out now, publicly lying about numbers is a big no no with the SEC. Agree with your other point, was just offering some clarification to a common misunderstanding. They didn't have 100M active players in 2018 either. They release these milestones for their games based on internal figures and extremely loose definitions to maximise the scope and make them sound impressive. They did the same for WoW and OW. They probably relate to number of accounts that have downloaded and played the game once, ever. As was pointed out, in order to obfuscate their data, they release aggregate active monthly user counts for their entire catalogue of games without differentiation. That way, people cannot use them as proof and clamour that a particular game is dying. And in 2018, they had about 35 million active monthly users across all of their games combined. No Wave posted:Blizzard publishes its MAUs across all titles and they were at 29 million monthly active users for 2020. Quite a lot of that has to be HS though it's not like anyone plays OW HotS or Starcraft anymore. There is WoW and WoW Classic to consider as well I guess, but I would assume the MAUs include China, which is probably the size of the RoW playerbase combined and some change. RoW + China could probably be around 10M~ monthly users for Hearthstone I guess. I did end up doing a little bit of poking around on this topic and it was interesting to see that Blizzard was the smallest and least profitable wing of Activision-Blizzard. Smaller than their subsidiary 'King' gaming who make Candy Crush.
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Jan 6, 2022 19:18
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Sloppy posted:Smite was a mistake on multiple levels, god I hate that card. https://twitter.com/ZeddyHS/status/1478987118571491328 It's funny how everything is on a 2 year cycle lol.. Everything comes back around again, the problem is the Hearthstone balance team doesn't seem to have any institutional or long term memory.
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Jan 6, 2022 19:19
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DrOgreface posted:Regarding Thief Rogue, I’ve never seen this chart look this lopsided. It’s going to get nerfs. I've been messing around with Thief Rogue for Heroic Adventure Mode and pretty competitive too. I'm sure if I actually play it on ladder I'll fall flat on my face 
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Jan 6, 2022 19:22
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Starsfan posted:https://twitter.com/ZeddyHS/status/1478987118571491328 I would suggest it’s because they don’t actually have an institutional or long term team, as a possible explanation.
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Jan 6, 2022 19:43
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Lord_Magmar posted:I would suggest it’s because they don’t actually have an institutional or long term team, as a possible explanation. Zeddy’s complaint isn’t entirely fair. What are they supposed to do, never print another charge minion? They can’t/shouldn’t ignore entire swathes of design space because a certain card was too powerful to be left evergreen. Scabbs is a one-of and Smite costs one more to play than Leeroy.
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Jan 6, 2022 21:48
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Okay but Smite also does a lot more and can be randomly summoned.
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Jan 6, 2022 22:01
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With the relatively dying userbase, I've been feeling (at the d5-low leg range) that players have been improving in general - but the good players with experimental/bad decks population seems far smaller.
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Jan 6, 2022 22:10
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Disargeria posted:Okay but Smite also does a lot more and can be randomly summoned. The random summoning is a problem with the quest, then, not Mister Smite.
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Jan 6, 2022 22:34
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ferroque posted:The random summoning is a problem with the quest, then, not Mister Smite. Believe it or not he also does more than just being summoned randomly!!
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Jan 6, 2022 22:45
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DrOgreface posted:Zeddy’s complaint isn’t entirely fair. What are they supposed to do, never print another charge minion? They can’t/shouldn’t ignore entire swathes of design space because a certain card was too powerful to be left evergreen. Scabbs is a one-of and Smite costs one more to play than Leeroy. It's just galling when all of these un-interactive tools are gathered in one classes belt. Rogue has the best of practically everything that matters in the game right now.. the best mana cheat, the best card draw, literally the best board clear card of all time, the best burn and the best value generation. It is loving ridiculous. **I tell you, there's nothing like not being able play a single card on either turn 5 or 6 because the poison rogue has the cloak of shadows up and you know that anything you put on the board is getting bounced back to your hand and if you buff your board you are throwing the game. Starsfan fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 00:57
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Frankly, loving good. Because Rogue, unlike say, Quest Warrior, or Control Lock last Season, has to at least make branching decisions. If the numbers are too good on it (and I agree that Smite was an extremely dumb idea) then bring them down, but at least it's having to consider options turn to turn, rather than Quest Warrior 'I will stick to the exact same gameplan regardless of what happens' or Face Hunter 'If you can pay for the card, you play the card' brainless (E: Or, at least, very minimal choices being made by the Player, you could replace either with some pretty simple Visual Basic) approaches. There's a reason why some people, in this very thread, no less, are remarking they don't find it very good whilst simultaneously others are decrying it as the most broken thing the game has ever seen in Standard, and for just once, it's for a good reason. Naturally this is going to make it seem more broken the higher you get, because the more competent and aware of potential plays the player base is going to get. Shockeh fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 01:50
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I am so sick of poison rogues just ignoring my board with double cloak then vanishing my board while developing their own jungle panthers then doing 30 from hand in a single turn It's boring and poo poo to play against I even rustrot their weapon and shadowstep a bunch and they just OTK me with guild trader anyway
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Jan 7, 2022 03:03
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What is it exactly that makes thief rogue so powerful? When I play on ladder, it's fun. But it doesn't seem overwhelmingly good.
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Jan 7, 2022 03:48
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My question is why does Priest always have to either suck or be nerfed into the ground, but poo poo like Mage or Rogue can linger as a top-3 class for-loving-ever basically all the time. Over the past year, every class but two have been the most played for at least one week - Priest and Druid (per today's Vicious Syndicate report). However, Druid has spent a lot of time as the second- or third-most-played class whereas Priest barely scraped into the upper half for maybe half a season before getting gutted. Everyone else can be good and popular, but Priest has to die. Look, I get it, historically Priest decks are cancer but that's a design failure. Blizzard consistently makes Priest a removal/control class without an endgame (gently caress you Warlock), except that the removal needs to be narrow for a class without any loving card draw (gently caress you again Warlock). The best Priest deck right now is 100% RNG; hopefully you draw enough removal to survive and stick your infinite value generators long enough to give you the revival tools that they cannot die while you probably can buff them to hit face. The second "best" deck has a card that does win the game, but only after a quest that is laughably slow to complete when compared to all the other "oops I win" quests, and is positively glacial when compared to the mere infinite value quests you have to try to out-control. Every class has overstatted minions (or for Paladin, buffs) to drop on turns 2-5; Priest has... I dunno, Veilweaver as a 2/3 must-remove? I don't think it has literally any playable overstatted stuff unless you count Lightshower (which, maybe, but much of the time it's just a 6/6 taunt - or, worse, just gets bounced/polymorphed because you're in a class that can't play any other loving threats before that turn).
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Jan 7, 2022 04:25
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Aggro shadow priest was fun for the few weeks it was viable. VS kept a list up for ages after most people stopped playing it I think.
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Jan 7, 2022 05:01
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victorious posted:Aggro shadow priest was fun for the few weeks it was viable. VS kept a list up for ages after most people stopped playing it I think. It's still fun. It's also unplayably bad, because you have no card draw and unlike Hunter your minions are understatted and your reach damage from hand is both limited and overcosted.
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Jan 7, 2022 05:28
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I think you kind of answered your own question. Blizzard has failed to change the design of Priest to make it tolerable to anyone except Priest players. Back when they did the core set it looked like there was room for a mid-range deck to develop but it never got any support. Maybe this year they'll have another go at it?
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Jan 7, 2022 06:28
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thread is right - thief rogue super fun
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Jan 7, 2022 07:05
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Kalko posted:I think you kind of answered your own question. Blizzard has failed to change the design of Priest to make it tolerable to anyone except Priest players. Back when they did the core set it looked like there was room for a mid-range deck to develop but it never got any support. Maybe this year they'll have another go at it? That answers the how, not the why. There's no reason why Warlock can just have insane draw, control, tempo and finishers always but Priest for some reason can only choose one. This is the first year in... ever?... that a zoolock hasn't emerged, but instead Warlock gets to have like six combo/control decks. Mage was bad for a single expansion and it immediately got an insane combo quest finisher. Warrior is on it's millionth version of the same moronic "aggro with a 30-damage combo finisher somehow" deck. Druid can have bullshit nongame aggro along with infinite mana combo horseshit. loving Hunter has a control/value deck. Priest had one half-decent aggro deck and it's the goddamn end of Hearthstone that requires an immediate nerf, and as further punishment it can't even fall back on having a playable control deck because it's so scary to print a "win the game" card (as opposed to a "win the game, but I'm a mage or warlock!" card). Just go back and read the Patch 20.8.2.86605 notes when they nerfed Renew and Apotheosis, it's loving laughable. "Priest heals too much, it feels like you need to remove all their minions, and we want the cards you put in your deck to matter so we're murdering Apotheosis and Renew." Meanwhile the entire second half of this year has seen Warlock healing for 30+ every game on their way to an unstoppable fatigue combo, Paladin has been consistently tier 1-2 with a buffing deck that demands instant removal or silences to everything they play, and Warrior's only real deck is "search for Pirate, add every class card, and profit". It's infuriating to enjoy the tools of the class, play well, and lose anyway because everyone else just has better poo poo. Priest can play just fine for about six turns, then you've run out of either gas or answers and you just loving die in every loving matchup. Or the opponent is playing any one of the million combo decks that you can't disrupt except for playing a 7 mana card that doesn't protect you and also probably misses anyway, or a 5 mana card that also doesn't protect you and also probably misses anyway. In short, for as great as this meta is supposed to be it's yet another time that Priest had to die for it, for no apparent reason. I'm done venting now I think.
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Jan 7, 2022 07:34
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Amen. I felt all of that.
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Jan 7, 2022 08:41
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yeah i mean there's really nothing in the game to entice the new players to even try playing priest. No cards that look fun or powerful, no exposure in top level streaming / pro play... like I imagine I would be pretty pissed if either of my 2 reward track legendarys turned out to be priest cards.
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Jan 7, 2022 09:15
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For anyone interested in the honor battle: We're in the final stretch (the events ends on January 11) and apparently Alliance holds a small lead. Which makes me glad I picked Horde, since I can stop stressing out about grinding 2500 more honor to complete the quest line to receive Vanndar. More information: https://outof.cards/hearthstone/411...e-still-prevail
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Jan 7, 2022 09:50
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Yestermoment posted:What is it exactly that makes thief rogue so powerful? When I play on ladder, it's fun. But it doesn't seem overwhelmingly good. It has very good early game card generation that lets you prepare for a variety of circumstances. It's strong enough on the board to control the first few turns, especially with early Gnolls - a turn 1 or 2 Gnoll is usually GG. It can reset the board in late game with Scabbs, and has burst from hand in the form of Smite and whatever you took from the Wand Thieves. The one game I've lost with it was to bad RNG against Varden Mage; he was able to run me out of damage. But last night I played against the same deck and found my way to a win through 29 armour.
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Jan 7, 2022 09:59
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Oenis posted:For anyone interested in the honor battle: It says 3 billion honour earned in total by both sides, going back to the monthly players chat from a pge or two back, that's probably a pretty good data point to guesstinate current players if anyone wants to do the math? It equates to around 200m games played since early December, right?
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Jan 7, 2022 11:01
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GTO posted:It says 3 billion honour earned in total by both sides, going back to the monthly players chat from a pge or two back, that's probably a pretty good data point to guesstinate current players if anyone wants to do the math? Winner of a game gets 20 honour, doubled if his opponent was from the other faction. Loser gets 10. So there's somewhere between 30 and 50 honour generated per game. I suspect it's towards the lower end of the scale as almost everyone I play is Alliance (as am I), but if the Horde are still close behind then assuming constant average win rates it can't in fact be much worse than 2:1 Alliance. That would set the average honour per game around 36, meaning 83 million games of Constructed have been played. E: so if the typical Constructed player plays 3 games a day (chosen because it's the average number to do a daily), there would be in the region of 800,000 players per day. This equates to a higher player base, as not everyone plays every day. Jedit fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 11:24
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Jedit posted:Alliance (as am I) I always knew you couldn't be trusted.
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Jan 7, 2022 11:49
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Jedit posted:Winner of a game gets 20 honour, doubled if his opponent was from the other faction. Loser gets 10. Well, 0 if they don't meet the criteria to get quest credit. I've had to be careful about this over the last month plus since (for example) being at 15 health + 2 armor on turn 6 staring down lethal with no out + concede = no honor gained. fake edit: obviously neither gets honor in unranked Constructed or Tavern Brawl, but just in case anyone wasn't aware.
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Jan 7, 2022 11:53
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Amoeba102 posted:I always knew you couldn't be trusted. *unzips trousers* Behold the might of Stormwind!
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Jan 7, 2022 11:56
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Yestermoment posted:What is it exactly that makes thief rogue so powerful? When I play on ladder, it's fun. But it doesn't seem overwhelmingly good. Early tempo rush 4/5s and 2x 3/3s. The rush yeti in particular is dictating the entire metagame right now, of what is worth putting on the board in the first 3 turns. victorious posted:Aggro shadow priest was fun for the few weeks it was viable. VS kept a list up for ages after most people stopped playing it I think. This deck still exists, and didn't make the cut to even mention in the latest vS report due to low numbers, but it has a good enough matchup spread to be playable in very dark horse 3-deck MTQ tournament lineups. edit: aggro shadow priest just won MTQ#2 last night AnacondaHL fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 15:14
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orangelex44 posted:My question is why does Priest always have to either suck or be nerfed into the ground, but poo poo like Mage or Rogue can linger as a top-3 class for-loving-ever basically all the time. Over the past year, every class but two have been the most played for at least one week - Priest and Druid (per today's Vicious Syndicate report). However, Druid has spent a lot of time as the second- or third-most-played class whereas Priest barely scraped into the upper half for maybe half a season before getting gutted. Everyone else can be good and popular, but Priest has to die. The annoying part is that I do honestly like the Xyrella hero card's design. The battlecry does good stuff in midrange decks if they make deathrattles that are worth anything, the hero power is a cool advancement on the base hero power that gives slow control decks a win condition that still feels like a slow control deck, it's just a solid card. But that's the problem with Priest. It has a lot of solid cards, but every other class is getting things that combine into something completely nuts. Priest's identity has ended up being "solid but not thrilling", and that's not a good place to be.
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Jan 7, 2022 15:46
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Lurks With Wolves posted:The annoying part is that I do honestly like the Xyrella hero card's design. The battlecry does good stuff in midrange decks if they make deathrattles that are worth anything, the hero power is a cool advancement on the base hero power that gives slow control decks a win condition that still feels like a slow control deck, it's just a solid card. But that's the problem with Priest. It has a lot of solid cards, but every other class is getting things that combine into something completely nuts. Priest's identity has ended up being "solid but not thrilling", and that's not a good place to be. I agree entirely. Priest has a lot of almost decks. It's quest is almost good, the hero card is almost good, the tempo/buff deck is almost good, the aggro deck is almost good. It has some all-star cards but none of them are drivers to winning - they're all the "glue" stuff like Renew and Palm Reading.
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Jan 7, 2022 16:31
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Questlines are a plague on this game. Or rather, they are a plague on fun. Everything they’ve ever added that amount to “do these specific things and you win automatically” are annoying as gently caress. I don’t care how viable they were by the numbers, if they were a niche deck, or the most dominant of the meta, I don’t want to race the super OP thing it’s impossible to recover from that the player was specifically directed to by a stupid quest or whatever. “Lol just kill them before they get there” is an annoying philosophy. It’s not lost on me that the entire game is just a race to a winnable board state and always has been, but I feel like, a long time ago, there used to be some back and forth. Some “if I clear this board i have a chance, but maybe they recover, but maybe I heal, but ooh they did that, but I drew a taunt! Was that their last threat? Oh poo poo he had that!” But those days are so long gone I just play Battlegrouds mostly.
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Jan 7, 2022 16:54
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Jedit posted:Winner of a game gets 20 honour, doubled if his opponent was from the other faction. Loser gets 10. So there's somewhere between 30 and 50 honour generated per game. I suspect it's towards the lower end of the scale as almost everyone I play is Alliance (as am I), but if the Horde are still close behind then assuming constant average win rates it can't in fact be much worse than 2:1 Alliance. That would set the average honour per game around 36, meaning 83 million games of Constructed have been played. So very roughly, hearthstone has, globally, about 1-1.5m active constructed players...?
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Jan 7, 2022 16:55
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