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Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
Don’t live in the same building where leaded fuel is stored, IMO.

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Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

I always wondered what Dirk Pitt's heating bill must've been and how he could afford it on a government salary.

His Dad was a US Senator, which means there's a solid chance he had family money.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

Zorak of Michigan posted:

His Dad was a US Senator, which means there's a solid chance he had family money.

They were also an oil family or something iirc, like Beverly Hillbillies gone City Slicker after a few generations

Preoptopus
Aug 25, 2008

âрø ÿþûþÑÂúø,
трø ÿþ трø ÿþûþÑÂúø
Any 5g being turned on incidents today?

Scam Likely
Feb 19, 2021

I texted my conspiracy nut coworker about how I'd be dead today according to what he's proselytized for the better part of 2 years, and he said to "run and get some glutothione liquid form (???)", because it "cleans you [sic] liver and is a good cardiovascular detox."

Sadly it was too late. I'd died like all the other vaxxed people exposed to the same frequency that's been used at airports for years.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Scam Likely posted:

I texted my conspiracy nut coworker about how I'd be dead today according to what he's proselytized for the better part of 2 years, and he said to "run and get some glutothione liquid form (???)", because it "cleans you [sic] liver and is a good cardiovascular detox."

Sadly it was too late. I'd died like all the other vaxxed people exposed to the same frequency that's been used at airports for years.

No, you see, he got the math wrong. He didn't carry the crazy in one particular formula so now it's going to be another six months.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Preoptopus posted:

Any 5g being turned on incidents today?

A bunch of foreign flag carriers cancelled flights to the US but no crashes reported.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

Could've checked Finland first. They've had great 5G coverage in dense areas for a good while now. and an ashen wasteland is all there's left

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!

Ola posted:

and an ashen wasteland is all there's left

Yes, but what has changed since the 5G rollout?

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

idgi

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Preoptopus posted:

Any 5g being turned on incidents today?

Verizon agreed not to use their spectrum

golden bubble
Jun 3, 2011

yospos

I'm not old enough to remember this firsthand, but it's remarkable to hear the same F-35 comments but 30 years earlier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xJBvKJht78

LimaBiker
Dec 9, 2020




The 5g stuff is problematic because altitude radar systems work with incredibly small signal levels. They transmit a couple watts of power, and receive something like a millionth of that back to the receiver.
They have been engineered to reject the out of band signals there were a few decades ago, and do that just fine. All receivers are sensitive to out of band signals despite everyone's best efforts. But the signals there used to be were just too small to punch through the filters of the old altimeters.

The now scheduled 5g transmitters have an ERP of about 1500w. Although they're 200MHz below the radar altimater freqeuencies, such a strong transmitter will interfere with the very quiet radar signals. Filters need to be redesigned to reject such strong out of band signals.

You can engineer a radar altimeter that can cope with it. But that was never done because it was never necessary, and if you would design it like that no one would buy it because it is much more expensive.
Of course, if it's a recently made altimeter, they've probably been made with 5g interference in mind.

In Europe, there's a bigger space between the altimeter band and the 5g band, so the practical issues don't exist here.

Arson Daily
Aug 11, 2003

Interestingly there are restrictions on doing GPS RNP approaches when near an airport with the problematic 5G towers. Any one know why a purely GPS approach would be affected by this?

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Arson Daily posted:

Interestingly there are restrictions on doing GPS RNP approaches when near an airport with the problematic 5G towers. Any one know why a purely GPS approach would be affected by this?

Because you’re still using radar altimeter data as part of the approach, specifically for MDA and DH, depending on exactly what approach you’re talking about.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Arson Daily posted:

Interestingly there are restrictions on doing GPS RNP approaches when near an airport with the problematic 5G towers. Any one know why a purely GPS approach would be affected by this?

Altitude accuracy is significantly less than longitude and latitude. For a sub meter GPS in lat/long height error will be over 2 meters vs mean sea level. Odds are the terrain you're over varies significantly from mean sea level and you'd be putting your faith in the gps ellipsoid approximation of the earth and the map onboard your aircraft being absolutely perfect. Even then you're off by over 2 meters which is going to be like 5% of a decision height in the best case scenario.

Arson Daily
Aug 11, 2003

MrYenko posted:

Because you’re still using radar altimeter data as part of the approach, specifically for MDA and DH, depending on exactly what approach you’re talking about.

But we're not though. The only approaches we use the radar altimeter for are CAT II/III and some HUD specific ones. Unless the airplane is using the rad alt to derive some very narrow RNP values as part of a multi sensor thing we're not using it as part of our call outs or anything, its purely off of the GPS and Baro altimetery.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Arson Daily posted:

But we're not though. The only approaches we use the radar altimeter for are CAT II/III and some HUD specific ones. Unless the airplane is using the rad alt to derive some very narrow RNP values as part of a multi sensor thing we're not using it as part of our call outs or anything, its purely off of the GPS and Baro altimetery.

GPWS is going to be using the radar altimeter though.

Blue Footed Booby
Oct 4, 2006

got those happy feet

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1484000818344955906

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

LimaBiker posted:

The 5g stuff is problematic because altitude radar systems work with incredibly small signal levels. They transmit a couple watts of power, and receive something like a millionth of that back to the receiver.
They have been engineered to reject the out of band signals there were a few decades ago, and do that just fine. All receivers are sensitive to out of band signals despite everyone's best efforts. But the signals there used to be were just too small to punch through the filters of the old altimeters.

The now scheduled 5g transmitters have an ERP of about 1500w. Although they're 200MHz below the radar altimater freqeuencies, such a strong transmitter will interfere with the very quiet radar signals. Filters need to be redesigned to reject such strong out of band signals.

You can engineer a radar altimeter that can cope with it. But that was never done because it was never necessary, and if you would design it like that no one would buy it because it is much more expensive.
Of course, if it's a recently made altimeter, they've probably been made with 5g interference in mind.

In Europe, there's a bigger space between the altimeter band and the 5g band, so the practical issues don't exist here.

This is only really a problem because no one wants to deal with Honeywell to get new RALTs.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

This is cool and well worth the ~$270 they probably spent to do it

Ola
Jul 19, 2004


Must've been one hell of a crosswind.

cigaw
Sep 13, 2012

Ola posted:

Must've been one hell of a crosswind.

I really appreciate this joke.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1484281046887800832

They drew Slim Alberta.

RoastBeef
Jul 11, 2008


TIL you can get charged with "Air Piracy"

https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1484299029462847495?s=20

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
What does that have to do with the southern district of new york though?

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008


Piracy still has universal jurisdiction, look at the conditions:

quote:

(2) There is jurisdiction over the offense in paragraph (1) if—
(A) a national of the United States was aboard the aircraft;
(B) an offender is a national of the United States; or
(C) an offender is afterwards found in the United States.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/46502

Part C is the age old anyone can hang a pirate they come across thing. I assume here there was a US national on the plane.

Regardless it effectively bans these government officials from coming to the US I guess.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

I don't see how that indictment could hold up though because the treaty is pretty specific in that you have to be onboard the aircraft?

https://treaties.un.org/doc/db/Terrorism/Conv2-english.pdf

quote:

(b)Outside Special Aircraft Jurisdiction.—
(1)An individual committing or conspiring to commit an offense (as defined in the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Seizure of Aircraft) on an aircraft in flight outside the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States—

I guess maybe they're saying that they're an accomplice? But that'd mean that the pilots themselves were the hijackers and that makes no sense.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
It could be read as offense against an aircraft.

Platystemon fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Jan 21, 2022

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

I would be so pissed.

Has a passenger ever sued an offending passenger for damages caused by a delay like this? I'm not for litigation on everything but that poo poo is insane.

`Nemesis
Dec 30, 2000

railroad graffiti

slidebite posted:

I would be so pissed.

Has a passenger ever sued an offending passenger for damages caused by a delay like this? I'm not for litigation on everything but that poo poo is insane.

i'd guess any losses would be above the limits of small claims court so then you're in real lawyer territory... so sure, you can win, but can you collect?

Mr. Funny Pants
Apr 9, 2001

`Nemesis posted:

i'd guess any losses would be above the limits of small claims court so then you're in real lawyer territory... so sure, you can win, but can you collect?

You'd think the airlines, given that they have in-house lawyers, would want to make an example of a few of these assholes for the head-on-a-pike effect to discourage anyone else from pulling that poo poo.

Arson Daily
Aug 11, 2003

I looked it up and a 777-300 burns around 7.5 metric tons of fuel per hour, so this jerkoff burned up about 5000 gallons of jet fuel because they wouldn't wear a piece of paper across their face.

`Nemesis
Dec 30, 2000

railroad graffiti

Mr. Funny Pants posted:

You'd think the airlines, given that they have in-house lawyers, would want to make an example of a few of these assholes for the head-on-a-pike effect to discourage anyone else from pulling that poo poo.

well the airlines could, but they did the usual and made the FAA do it. Unruly passengers are getting hammered with big fines, 10k to 55k. Not sure what a simple mask refusal will get, but anyone who gets fined also loses precheck.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
\

Arson Daily posted:

I looked it up and a 777-300 burns around 7.5 metric tons of fuel per hour, so this jerkoff burned up about 5000 gallons of jet fuel because they wouldn't wear a piece of paper across their face.
Hopefully the airline delivers a $20,000 fuel bill to this rear end in a top hat.

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

hobbesmaster posted:

I don't see how that indictment could hold up though because the treaty is pretty specific in that you have to be onboard the aircraft?

https://treaties.un.org/doc/db/Terrorism/Conv2-english.pdf

I guess maybe they're saying that they're an accomplice? But that'd mean that the pilots themselves were the hijackers and that makes no sense.

Not sure what you are reading but the treaty you linked is pretty specific that someone who exercised control of the aircraft unlawfully is the offender.

That would exclude the pilots acting under threat of force.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKN0SpWeILo

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/qatar-releases-video-hits-back-airbus-a350-paint-row-2022-01-21/

quote:

Qatar Airways is pressing for compensation of $618 million plus $4 million a day and halted taking new A350 deliveries. Airbus has said it will fight the claim in full.

In the video lasting just over a minute and a half released on YouTube, Qatar Airways showed rows of defects on the skin of some of the A350s grounded by the country’s regulator.

The jet video capped 24 hours of intense exposure for the usually secretive aviation world after Airbus took the rare step of revoking a separate Qatar order for smaller A321neos.

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

That could be disastrously bad.

It calls into serious question the quality of bonding of those panels, which directly affects lightning strike safety. In my experience paint quality and panel bonding quality tend to be correlated on aircraft. Corrosion protection is a direct trade off for panel bonding quality. I'd be checking the bonding tests they did with a microscope.

Also the article mentions lighting strikes hit aircraft once per year, but that should be clarified to once per 1000 flight hours.

Lightning strikes encountering lower than expected conductivity due to thick paint, poor bonding, or hitting carbon fiber rather than the mesh screen will increase (milliseconds matter here) the amount of time an area receives the strike and can greatly increase the damage to the aircraft. (e.g. structural holes, CF delamination, damage to electronics)


Hopefully the A350 also has a second lightning/EMI/HIRF mitigation internal to the aircraft, not just that mesh. IIRC one of the Boeing composite planes has aluminum paneling and/or foil covering areas with cable runs.

CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jan 22, 2022

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

I wonder how Airbus is going to spin that

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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

If Delta’s aren’t also breaking it could be something specific to their paint? Seems odd for this to only hit one customer

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