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bob dobbs is dead posted:anyhow, the other question goes, have you actually been working on this stuff for decades yeah sorry i meant she's been keeping notebooks of "if I made this game, here's what I'd do differently" as far as i know ever since she started playing videogames in the first place
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Jan 23, 2022 09:24
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Shame Boy posted:yeah sorry i meant she's been keeping notebooks of "if I made this game, here's what I'd do differently" as far as i know ever since she started playing videogames in the first place i don't tend to play games unless i'm studying them really. anyway we're off topic i think maybe??
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Jan 23, 2022 09:27
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every yospos thread has sometimes week, month, yearlong tangents
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Jan 23, 2022 09:30
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bob dobbs is dead posted:every yospos thread has sometimes week, month, yearlong tangents oh phew so you don't mind me ranting about my weird poo poo? thank god
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Jan 23, 2022 09:33
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Expo70 posted:oh phew so you don't mind me ranting about my weird poo poo? thank god i think a bunch of people are here specifically for the weird poo poo
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Jan 23, 2022 09:36
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better than hbag cuz shes a real adult
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Jan 23, 2022 09:47
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Shame Boy posted:i think a bunch of people are here specifically for the weird poo poo oh that's pretty cool bob dobbs is dead posted:better than hbag cuz shes a real adult thanks i think? i was very silly when i first got here, mostly out of extreme nervousness. now i'm sorta just trying to self-regulate so i don't hammer out enormous run on sentences and huge dense rants. like if i dominate the thread, that feels like defeating the point of what it means to have a thread. i wonder if there's somewhere i should post about my encounters with rich weirdos. is there a place for that? Expo70 fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Jan 23, 2022 |
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Jan 23, 2022 10:14
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bfc has personal threads routinely for the bfc peeps to gawk at peeps who are insanely bad with money bfc's main thread is entitled bad with money - current title is somethinf ridiculous w 'bwm' as initials. direct encounters w rich weirdos is p funny
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Jan 23, 2022 10:34
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oh yeah, one last idiosyncrasy of the pos which is worth mentioning because the game is a mecha game: anime is banned w sometimes a de facto carveout for smoka. no goddamn anime
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Jan 23, 2022 11:14
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bob dobbs is dead posted:oh yeah, one last idiosyncrasy of the pos which is worth mentioning because the game is a mecha game: i'm not really as into anime as i used to be. there are too many things about the industry and the people who consume the media i find abhorrant. i will still watch UC gundam or things like that but ultimately i'm a fan of things with giant robots in them that move and fight in interesting ways, over anything involving japanese animation. i spend a lot of time picking apart footage frame by frame to notice strange behaviours, movement, design features, etc. its been something of an obsession since i was a child and where the design or the animation or the footage comes from is ultimately unimportant to me - only that it is good and interesting. admittedly i like the art style (the wild character and fashion design work on japanese twitter is fascinating) but for the most part, the stories told in it are awful and i don't enjoy media that caters to otaku very much. the weird obsession with tiny vulnerable child girls is very creepy and so are the people that orbit that work. its the same as the creepy idol culture in japan. the "most" anime i like my "anime" is probably patlabor. i have no idea what smoka means or what a defacto carveout is. edit: i'm guessing the culture around anime is what created that rule? i know a lot of fans of that sort of thing can be very unpleasant people who don't realize they're watching foreign cartoons and not like some "radical artform from glorious nippon" or whatever because they've never kissed a girl Expo70 fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Jan 23, 2022 |
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Jan 23, 2022 11:20
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Expo70 posted:i have no idea what smoka means or what a defacto carveout is. smoka is a frequent poster who rightly gets slightly lighter anime rule enforcement. which is cool and good because some slight arbitrariness to the rules is a good way of reminding ourselves that the forums are for fun and not a strict legal democratic system or anything.
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Jan 23, 2022 11:56
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the arbitrariness of the rule is because the forums have been subjected to some of the most ingenious bad faith posting there has ever been, not just because its funny for the mods, altho it is also that
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Jan 23, 2022 11:58
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blah blah worst system of moderation, except for all the others that have been tried.
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Jan 23, 2022 12:02
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:smoka is a frequent poster who rightly gets slightly lighter anime rule enforcement. which is cool and good because some slight arbitrariness to the rules is a good way of reminding ourselves that the forums are for fun and not a strict legal democratic system or anything. aaah, i see. the closest thing to that sort of thing you'd likely get out of me is screenshots of various cockpits and discussions about their arrangements and designs or like... probably mecha design influences through history or something like fashion and uniform design discussion, or maybe bringing up specific artwork as an example of a motif but i get that probably won't fly here. shame cuz i love talking/dissecting that stuff. on a technical basis, discussing stuff like why the xi gundam looks the way it does and what the features do, or how its movements against the penelope were meant to be evocative of stuff like fighter merging into one circle/two circle and how penelope is optimized for straight runs (with big huge sensor boons to give it vertical binocular vision to cut thru the minovsky interference) vs xi which is far more an omnidirectional weapon is super interesting to me - really good faith super geeky poo poo idk bob dobbs is dead posted:the arbitrariness of the rule is because the forums have been subjected to some of the most ingenious bad faith posting there has ever been, not just because its funny for the mods, altho it is also that aaaah makes sense.
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Jan 23, 2022 12:07
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bob dobbs is dead posted:better than hbag cuz shes a real adult alright let's get you back to the home grandpa
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Jan 23, 2022 13:29
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also lain is a GOOD anime (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 23, 2022 13:30
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hbag posted:also lain is a GOOD anime it was mind-bendingly prophetic. some how adult me who sits around in a kigu in the dark under six monitors with three computers with hair that i cut all by myself myself, bitching about stuff on the internet could not have imagined how so. glorious Expo70 fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Jan 23, 2022 |
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Jan 23, 2022 13:37
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i, for one, support the ban on anime
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Jan 23, 2022 13:52
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oh found an old concept here, which needs ripping a new anus.  I was playing with the idea for a hall-sensor responsive controller input device which honestly i realize is pretty terrible now. i do want to resurrect the stottle concept of a hybrid stick/throttle with a single unified bridging though. its super flawed, but the idea of changing the input type you supply the system with automatically based on hand position is an idea i really wanna test.    i debated for a while putting a beam splitter on the stick over the part the palm presses into the stick and another for the throttle, so it could assign an on-press when you occupied those positions but i'm guessing if i built the thing it would probably feel pretty bad. need to clay it out and really get a feel for it. need to get off my rear end and look into 3d printing and get a teensy board to code and play with... blahhh
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Jan 23, 2022 13:58
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*runs into the thread* did anyone mention arbitrary application of rules? Boy do we have research about that! There's a whole scale of different angles to tackle the idea that rule bending and rule breaking is not only good but also necessary, ranging from systems and modelling (rules operate on an abstraction of the world that necessarily lose critical but non-measurable facets of the real world, which people close on the ground may have better awareness of and may arbitrarily embrace by choosing what to enforce and ignore), down to specific cognitive effects around definitions of expertise, without forgetting things like dynamics of wanting to evolve rules. I'm going to briefly use this opportunity to introduce one paper, because I gotta pace myself. This one is a chapter of Advancing Resilient Performance, titled Development of Resilience Engineering on Worksites by A. Komatsubara. This looks at the idea of guides, rules, and manuals in the context of nuclear incidents. The paper picks two cases: 1. Tokaimura Nuclear Accident in Japan at the JCO Plant in 1999, where 3 workers violated the procedure to produce a small batch of liquid-type uranium fuel. They knew the procedure but they used an incorrectly sized tank to mix uranium powder into liquid acid, in an attempt to reduce workload and production time. Then, a criticality accident occurred, because size is super important in these things. 2. Retreating from a Nuclear Power Plant, 2011. The author state that it is not formally reported but at the Great Eastern Japan Earthquake (in 2011), a nuclear power plant was said to have allowed workers from inside the plant building to escape outside without measuring their radiation doses. If individual dosimetry had been performed—as prescribed by the manual—the evacuation would have been delayed detrimentally, threatening people’s safety. So the question there is when is it okay to break some rules and never okay to break others. The author defines three types of manuals:
Type 1 is more or less "do not grab the sword by the blade" -- there's nothing good that can happen of that, and it some cases physical laws are at play (criticality events, explosions, whatever) and the rules are never to be broken. Type 2 are considered to be a "social promise," usually for the smoother working of the system. An example given is driving on the right side of the road (left side in Japan, where the author lives). Doing such is pretty much always recommended to prevent accidents and make sure the road is safe, but in emergency situations, drivers can be expected to deviate from the norm to keep the system functional. Type 3 are guides about standard treatment methods. Even if they are standard, there is a high expectation that people applying them will be able to use their judgment to adapt and adjust to local situations. An example given there is people following support and service procedures for staff helping customers in a store. In short:  The paper does mention that not all workers are equal, and it depends on their resilience potential: quote:Resilient behaviour in types 2 and 3 is not unconditionally allowed for every worker. It is determined by the relative relationship between the magnitude of the situation change and the worker’s resilience potential. In short, if the worker’s resilience potential is small in relation to the magnitude of the situation change, resilient behaviour is likely to result in undesirable outcomes. It would be beyond his capacity. In order to obtain good outcomes from resilient behaviour, the worker’s resilience potential must be large enough for the magnitude of the change. Resilience potential is defined (in another document by Hollnagel) as being the combination of one's ability to respond to new situations (do you know the procedures), the ability to monitor (do you know what to look for), the ability to learn (can you draw the right lessons from experience), and the ability to anticipate (changes, future demands, new constraints). The paper gives a model where it suggests a visualization to make decisions. The first one is the case where the worker should be allowed to be resilient:  And a second one where the worker should not be allowed to deviate from any rule nor improvise:  Line A indicates the level of resilience potential of the worker. Line B indicates the level of resilience potential required by the worker at that time. Both lines are wavy, indicating their respective dynamics. If the worker has a rich resilience potential, the line A moves up. Workers are allowed resilient behaviour in the situation where line B is below line A. On the other hand, line B moves upward as the situation deviates from the normal. As a result, line B goes up beyond line A, resulting in the case presented in the second image. So the idea is that in more critical situations, you must be able to identify which type of rule each one is (Type 1/2/3), and get an idea of who has the capacity to break some of them safely according to type. Higher levels of expertise, experience, and whatever attributes boil down to resilience potential. People are likely to take shortcuts and break rules, so if all rules are treated like type 1 rules and people figure out some are breakable, it's likely many employees with less expertise (or understanding of where rules come from) may eventually inadvertently break them to terrible effects. If some rules are absolutely unbreakable, they likely have to be treated differently from the preferably unbreakable rules. Knowing both can exist and which is which can be a huge game changer in unexpected situations. --- In conclusion, banning for anime is unlikely to be a rule 1 type of situation. It may most likely be a type 2 rule in contexts where anime posting tends to extremely derail the functioning of the forums and it's a bad look onto anyone, and its banning could be compared to mandating driving on the right side of the road. In emergency situations you may sometimes be allowed to post one image, but you'd better have a pretty good dang excuse. Japan of course drives on the left and you can expect to anime post all the time there. That Hollnagel grid I linked to is sort of neat and is one of the thing I've decided to use to track how good the on-call rotations I help with at work might be headed over time, by applying a reduced version of it more at a team level than an individual level. The other paper I'll want to introduce at a later point is titled "Can We Trust Best Practices? Six Cognitive Challenges of Evidence-Based Approaches" and discusses whether the idea of best practices makes sense, and the situations in which medical workers are expected not to respect them. MononcQc fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Jan 23, 2022 |
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Jan 23, 2022 16:16
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so does the legal system logically fit into that somewhere? as kind of the ur-type of a system that should be as firm and fair as possible, but the frailty of overly specific laws is known, so there is an overarching system and theory for how to map generalized rules down into specific situations
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Jan 23, 2022 16:32
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Poopernickel posted:Imagine a world where "The Office" became a high-culture treasure 500 years from now, with The Office scholars picking apart the meaning of when Kevin spilled his chili in that one episode. The office is high culture, and scholars do pick apart it's meanings. Expo70 posted:oh that's pretty cool You could create a thread in BFC. You'll be dealing with a different set of personalities. I'd encourage you to walk around everywhere but GBS, if only to pick up a handful of amusing threads.
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Jan 23, 2022 16:35
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:so does the legal system logically fit into that somewhere? as kind of the ur-type of a system that should be as firm and fair as possible, but the frailty of overly specific laws is known, so there is an overarching system and theory for how to map generalized rules down into specific situations Well the legal system is a different beast there. Resilience Engineering is usually concerned with "making sure people and the system are safe" in what is generally a work context. I figure the legal system and context is a challenge there because the way rules are applied and enforced differs based on each jurisdiction. For example, my understanding is that the US legal system is very much a "letter of the law" thing where if you can defend an interpretation of the words that allows your behaviour, regardless of what it is, you might be good. On the other hand, systems that focus more on "the spirit of the law" where obviously gaming the words to bypass the intent can still be punished as being a bad-faith action. If I recall, HN was particularly appalled by GDPR because their laws was written far more in "spirit of the law" contexts where you couldn't know if specific things were allowed or not and the intent was to protect end users' data. So the US adtech folks were freaking out because there was no straightforward way to game the laws as written. But even then, you can probably infer some of them based on which agency sets the rules (is it the federal, state or municipal government? the insurers? EPA? CDC? OSHA? a foreign country and their equivalents?), the penalties ("cost of doing business" in breaking toothless laws), and the types of trials you may get, and so on. None of it is super accurate though, and some authors (cf. Sidney Dekker - The Safety Anarchist) argue that since deregulation at government levels does not necessarily remove liability, it in turns sometimes means insurers and legal departments end up creating more rules for workers to respect than if you just had laws in the first place, and the overall framework is worse to navigate because each organization ends up creating disjoint and partially overlapping standards that don't apply equally to all places. The more rules you have, the more chances you have to end up breaking some of them, so paradoxically, deregulation and then the fear of liability may increase their actual liability. Most of resilience engineering authors have a tendency to just want tight and frequent feedback loops between the sharp end (people doing the work on the ground) and people at the blunt end (management, regulators) to better keep understanding in line with actual challenges of work taking place. E: for example, I believe Dekker argues that in countries where the intent of a safety law is to ensure actual safety, enforcement agencies may serve as a way to share improvements and techniques across worksites and to de-silo work practice, where the inspector goes around with a mindset of "trying to help make things safer". You still get the basics of building codes, but past the base standards the idea is to help people run safely and sharing good ideas around may be part of that. In jurisdiction where law is enforced through liability and penalties, you tend to get inspectors who are checklist-driven and mostly try to make sure there is no fault and they are looking for adherence to pre-defined factors, where the basic rules and the higher objectives mostly use the same mechanisms of pass/fail adherence. There is of course give and take in style in each case and professional, but he makes a point that the overall framework's structure has a deep impact on how it gets applied day-to-day. MononcQc fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Jan 23, 2022 |
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Jan 23, 2022 16:45
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MononcQc posted:E: for example, I believe Dekker argues that in countries where the intent of a safety law is to ensure actual safety, enforcement agencies may serve as a way to share improvements and techniques across worksites and to de-silo work practice, where the inspector goes around with a mindset of "trying to help make things safer". You still get the basics of building codes, but past the base standards the idea is to help people run safely and sharing good ideas around may be part of that. In jurisdiction where law is enforced through liability and penalties, you tend to get inspectors who are checklist-driven and mostly try to make sure there is no fault and they are looking for adherence to pre-defined factors, where the basic rules and the higher objectives mostly use the same mechanisms of pass/fail adherence. There is of course give and take in style in each case and professional, but he makes a point that the overall framework's structure has a deep impact on how it gets applied day-to-day.  And here's one page on the counter-intuitive effects of deregulation: 
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Jan 23, 2022 16:57
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Expo70 posted:oh found an old concept here, which needs ripping a new anus. I feel like i'm missing something here...both the stick and the lower pad seem to be right-handed, but you could never use both at once with the same hand
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Jan 23, 2022 18:04
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there's a reason that aristotle put decency over lawfulness
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Jan 23, 2022 18:22
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leper khan posted:The office is high culture, and scholars do pick apart it's meanings. proof that we are living in the worst timeline
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Jan 23, 2022 18:36
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rotor posted:a microwave should have one control: a knob for setting how long you want it to run i have used both an ancient microwave with a big chunky mechanical dial and a modern industrial panasonic with a digital knob and they both were terrible the mechanical dial was slower than a keypad and the digital would take two tiny clicks to overshoot from :45 to 1:30 then ten slow clicks backwards in 5 second intervals to revise
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Jan 23, 2022 21:45
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how is a mechanical dial slower than a keypad? when i was a kid, our microwave had a clockwork dial you cranked like an egg timer. you want 2 minutes? grab dial, rotate 45 degrees to the "2." that's it. i'd say that is tied with pressing a dedicated "2:00" button in time and complexity, and faster than any other potential keypad interface. it also has the nice feature of direct proprioceptive mapping -- rather than thinking about how many minutes something might need to cook, you just intuitively know stuff like "two burritos goes to the 5 o'clock position" and "more turning = more hot" and that is great ergonomics right there. using a free spinning rotary encoder dial for the same purpose sounds terrible. especially when implemented poorly like that. gently caress why can't people ever seem to get encoders to work correctly?? it's always too sensitive, or not sensitive enough, or it misses clicks, or the interface doesn't respond in sync with the physical clicking, or ahhhghahhhghgah
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Jan 23, 2022 21:57
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Shame Boy posted:i think a bunch of people are here specifically for the weird poo poo not me, I'm just here for arguments about brace styles, languages and what kind of bagels are best (salt)
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Jan 23, 2022 22:12
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one being this was from the era of “microwave cooking” books with pictures of roasts and seven course meals on the cover so you had a 30 minute linear timer so everything you’d ever want to do was between 12-2 and it was difficult to differentiate between the tiny arc fractions which would cook the frozen meal nicely to burnt to a crisp. you can still get these dials on cheap small microwaves
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Jan 23, 2022 22:13
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PCjr sidecar posted:you can still get these dials on cheap small microwaves its actually very hard to find microwaves with dial interfaces now. I have one on my wishlist for when i finally get tired of the POS i have now, and its entirely aimed at people who have trouble with fine manipulation skills.
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Jan 23, 2022 22:17
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oh man i saw some old infomercial for microwave cooking and it was hilarious how much of it was "get a ceramic plate really hot in the microwave, now grill poo poo on it." i couldn't figure out how it could be superior to just getting a hot plate in anything but the most dire no-counter-space circumstances
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Jan 23, 2022 22:19
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Achmed Jones posted:oh man i saw some old infomercial for microwave cooking and it was hilarious how much of it was "get a ceramic plate really hot in the microwave, now grill poo poo on it." i couldn't figure out how it could be superior to just getting a hot plate in anything but the most dire no-counter-space circumstances dorms and rvs and such
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Jan 23, 2022 22:20
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rotor posted:dorms and rvs and such so you mean dire no-counter-space circumstances? plus the hot plate is still better
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Jan 23, 2022 22:22
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Jan 23, 2022 22:22
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^^^^^^ lovelyAchmed Jones posted:so you mean dire no-counter-space circumstances? some dorms specifically outlaw hotplates, which is why i mentioned them
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Jan 23, 2022 22:23
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rotor posted:its actually very hard to find microwaves with dial interfaces now. I have one on my wishlist for when i finally get tired of the POS i have now, and its entirely aimed at people who have trouble with fine manipulation skills. https://www.google.com/search?q=mechanical+microwave+oven&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari ?
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Jan 23, 2022 22:24
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here you go https://m.aliexpress.com/item/10050...8f1436a1&gclid=
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Jan 23, 2022 22:28
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rotor posted:^^^^^^ lovely ah yeah, good point. my dorm had a rule against them but our RAs never gave a poo poo. if they had i would've ditched it though and i guess needed a ceramic thing to microwave!
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Jan 23, 2022 22:30
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