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pedro0930 posted:Both France and Germany had many obsolete tanks in their inventory, but German had put down doctrinal requirement to have 3-men turret during the interwar years while in 1940 French military establishment still thought 1-man/2-man turrets are good, actually. Bad French tank is not even that high on pop history criticism of French performance in WW2, certainly lower than something like "Maginot Line" or "Surrendered fast" that has even less merit. The 2-man turret is a huge improvement over the 1-man turret. It's not the ideal arrangement, but there's definitely a big difference there between the 38(t) and the R-35. There were a lot of other problems with the R-35, though, in addition to the awkward layout.
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Feb 3, 2022 21:36
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I love the adorable French 2 man tanks but good lord were they a bad idea. You can really see the effects of WWI in French tabk design, what with them trying to make a new FT-17 and the ludicrously low crew counts due to the demographic catastrophe that was the Western Front. Even the big heavy B-1 only has a crew of 4, which boggles my mind. A lot of interwar tanks are weird, but the B-1 takes the cake I think: it really is a 1920s design that was in development hell for a decade and looks the part.
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Feb 3, 2022 23:49
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Speaking of the Chieftain, he actually came out with a pair of videos discussing the development of US armored doctrine before World War II the other day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLkJPGGQ4Jk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erZsghWqGB4 It's really interesting, since it illustrates just what a terrible position US armored forces were in before the war. As bad as tanks like the R-35 might have been, it was still leaps and bounds ahead of something like the M1 Combat Car.
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Feb 4, 2022 00:43
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*1930s US Army general looks at some tank blueprints* looks good, but can we add...more machine guns?
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Feb 4, 2022 01:53
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This tank design is amazing! We'll take one (1).
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Feb 4, 2022 03:15
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Those Bonus Army encampments aren't going to bulldoze themselves! 
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Feb 4, 2022 03:21
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I'm re-watching Der Untergang. Hitler gives Frau Are we sure this isn't a comedy? PeterCat fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Feb 4, 2022 |
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Feb 4, 2022 04:11
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Speaking of the Chieftain, he actually came out with a pair of videos discussing the development of US armored doctrine before World War II the other day: I like how the Cav is like, we can use mechanization, to move the horses around!
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Feb 4, 2022 04:12
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PeterCat posted:I'm re-watching Der Untergang. Could be a bad translation of this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Honour_of_the_German_Mother
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Feb 4, 2022 04:23
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Ensign Expendable posted:Could be a bad translation of this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Honour_of_the_German_Mother I'm being a little flippant, but he gives her this pin:  and says this: 
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Feb 4, 2022 04:37
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^^^^ Isn't that Mrs Goebbels? Anyway, with all the alt-his talk: Is the most plausible Nazi victory scenario the one where the UK and the USSR go to war? How close was the UK to actually fighting the Soviets? I know they toyed with the idea of backing Finland in the winter war, and Churchill seemed to be really excited about bombing the Soviet oilfields in the Caucasus. What stopped him? Or was it just a flight of fancy and something he wanted to do but was never ever going to actually try, like Patton wanting to team up with the Germans to smack Ivan? Was anyone in the UK pulling for war with the Soviets after they invaded Poland? If both Germany and the USSR are fighting the UK simultaneously, that could really push the UK to secure a peace favorable to the Axis. Somehow I feel that Hitler would somehow still find an excuse to backstab the Soviets at some point even if they are working together.
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Feb 4, 2022 04:49
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Mr. Grapes! posted:^^^^ Isn't that Mrs Goebbels? Yeah, I confused my Nazi's. Anyway.
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Feb 4, 2022 05:00
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FishFood posted:I love the adorable French 2 man tanks but good lord were they a bad idea. You can really see the effects of WWI in French tabk design, what with them trying to make a new FT-17 and the ludicrously low crew counts due to the demographic catastrophe that was the Western Front. Even the big heavy B-1 only has a crew of 4, which boggles my mind. A lot of interwar tanks are weird, but the B-1 takes the cake I think: it really is a 1920s design that was in development hell for a decade and looks the part. the french ww2 tank designs didn't happen because of smaller post ww1 generations. one man turrets were used at first because they worked on the ft-17 well enough, and later because they were lighter and cheaper Acebuckeye13 posted:Speaking of the Chieftain, he actually came out with a pair of videos discussing the development of US armored doctrine before World War II the other day: wasn't the m1 like that because it was essentially like the pz1, ie. made as a prototype
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Feb 4, 2022 06:23
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Did Imperial Russia have a strong international espionage setup? I just read something about them having a great many agents around Tokyo during the Russo-Japanese war.
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Feb 4, 2022 09:04
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Mr. Grapes! posted:Is the most plausible Nazi victory scenario the one where the UK and the USSR go to war? How close was the UK to actually fighting the Soviets? I know they toyed with the idea of backing Finland in the winter war, and Churchill seemed to be really excited about bombing the Soviet oilfields in the Caucasus. The 1940 plan of helping Finland would have meant invading Norway and Sweden through mountains with only one road, in winter, with troops that couldn't even ski. They would never have made it to Finland, what with now having to defend the Narvik-Kiruna route against counter attacks. But even then the Allied preparations for the operation were enough to get Stalin to open a negotiations channel to Finnish government, leading to peace. Stalin wasn't a gung ho risk taker like Hitler, so I find a Russo-British war very unlikely unless Churchill sends the British expeditionary force to capture Moscow.
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Feb 4, 2022 10:28
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Arbite posted:Did Imperial Russia have a strong international espionage setup? Yes, huge. Look up the Third Section and the Okhrana that succeeded it. They mainly targeted Russian dissidents and revolutionaries, both within Russia and abroad, but European revolutionaries considered the Russian Empire their main enemy for most of the 1800s, thanks to its financial and military support of conservative monarchies and attempts to stymie democratic and constitutionalist revolutionary movements all over. They also engaged in intelligence and counterintelligence generally, and supposedly served as the model for the Soviet programs that followed.
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Feb 4, 2022 11:08
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Fuschia tude posted:Yes, huge. Look up the Third Section and the Okhrana that succeeded it. They mainly targeted Russian dissidents and revolutionaries, both within Russia and abroad, but European revolutionaries considered the Russian Empire their main enemy for most of the 1800s, thanks to its financial and military support of conservative monarchies and attempts to stymie democratic and constitutionalist revolutionary movements all over. They also engaged in intelligence and counterintelligence generally, and supposedly served as the model for the Soviet programs that followed. Chances are the Soviet programmes that followed had a lot of the same staff in, even, especially early on (see: the Stasi being full of former Gestapo)
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Feb 4, 2022 12:07
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Fuschia tude posted:Yes, huge. Look up the Third Section and the Okhrana that succeeded it. They mainly targeted Russian dissidents and revolutionaries, both within Russia and abroad, but European revolutionaries considered the Russian Empire their main enemy Interestingly, this generally lead to other european major governments either ignoring the Okhrana actions happening on their soil or even outright supporting them. Because most of the people Okhrana wanted to murder were people who the local goverments also wanted to have an accident, and an Okhrana guy getting caught killing a socialist revolutionary would be much preferable to a scandal involving the local cops murdering revolutionaries.
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Feb 4, 2022 12:40
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Fuschia tude posted:Yes, huge. Look up the Third Section and the Okhrana that succeeded it. They mainly targeted Russian dissidents and revolutionaries, both within Russia and abroad, but European revolutionaries considered the Russian Empire their main enemy for most of the 1800s, thanks to its financial and military support of conservative monarchies and attempts to stymie democratic and constitutionalist revolutionary movements all over. They also engaged in intelligence and counterintelligence generally, and supposedly served as the model for the Soviet programs that followed. Quite interesting, thank you.
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Feb 4, 2022 13:17
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PeterCat posted:I'm being a little flippant, but he gives her this pin: That's the Golden Party Badge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Party_Badge. It was a special award given to party members, male and female, for excellence in the arts of being an abhorrent human being. In typical Nazi fashion they were all numbered so someone else couldn't hold it or wear it.
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Feb 4, 2022 14:12
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:That's the Golden Party Badge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Party_Badge. It was a special award given to party members, male and female, for excellence in the arts of being an abhorrent human being. In typical Nazi fashion they were all numbered so someone else couldn't hold it or wear it. So you're saying Nazis invented NFTs?
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Feb 4, 2022 14:51
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Cyrano4747 posted:So you're saying Nazis invented NFTs? Loser nerds have always been obsessed with exclusivity and "collectability." A similar thing, that was even crazier, were the SS-Ehrenring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-Ehrenring. Each ring was bespoke, holding the name of the holder and the date of issue, and on death of the holder had to be interred in Wewelsburg Castle. If the holder died in combat, the SS members had to go out of their way to retrieve it because it was considered comparable to a banner or other award. About 36% of them are missing and it's believed there's a bag full of them at the bottom of a lake in Germany, which would be worth a lot of money. It's peak, taking your stupid cosplay poo poo way too seriously.
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Feb 4, 2022 15:05
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Cyrano4747 posted:So you're saying Nazis invented NFTs? To be fair to the Nazis (new thread title), any token that isn't fungible is an NFT. Like my drivers license is an NFT if we're using it as a dictionary definition rather than using it as a term to refer to a specific form of 21st century scam. I guess we gotta blame...100,000 year old bead necklaces?
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Feb 4, 2022 15:07
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Update regarding my previous post about the Nazis, you do not, in fact, gotta hand it to em.
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Feb 4, 2022 15:34
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Most of the Golden Party Badges belonged to people who joined the Party early, and there was all sorts of prestige related to that, so it makes sense that the Nazis wouldn't want people wearing them who weren't "entitled" to them. It was a kind of stolen valor situation.
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Feb 4, 2022 15:50
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:About 36% of them are missing and it's believed there's a bag full of them at the bottom of a lake in Germany, which would be worth a lot of money. Similarly, the nazis made a big deal about the flag they carried in the Beer Hall Putsch, the "Blood Banner." It was considered a sacred object, to the point where new nazi flags were rubbed with it to "consecrate" them. It went missing some time in 1944 - it may have been destroyed by Allied bombing, kept in a box in someone's attic, or picked up and and sent home by Allied troops as a souvenir.
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Feb 4, 2022 16:07
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Cessna posted:Similarly, the nazis made a big deal about the flag they carried in the Beer Hall Putsch, the "Blood Banner." It was considered a sacred object, to the point where new nazi flags were rubbed with it to "consecrate" them. Actually,
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Feb 4, 2022 16:11
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You realize that's fictional, right? Is That the Joke?
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Feb 4, 2022 16:26
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That is the joke, yes
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Feb 4, 2022 16:32
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Cyrano4747 posted:So you're saying Nazis invented NFTs? Nazi Fascist Tokens?
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Feb 4, 2022 16:47
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Phanatic posted:Nazi Fascist Tokens? Non Fungible Totenkopf
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Feb 4, 2022 16:51
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:In typical Nazi fashion they were all numbered so someone else couldn't hold it or wear it. Is this the same Nazi fashion in which the Order of Lenin were also individually numbered and marked in a little booklet?  
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Feb 4, 2022 17:11
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Laws regarding possession of state awards in Russia are strict in general. You're not allowed to sell them, the most you can do is authorize a state or municipal museum to store or display them. The law was only passed in 2001 so a ton of valuable awards were sold off in the 90s.
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Feb 4, 2022 17:23
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Ensign Expendable posted:The law was only passed in 2001 so a ton of valuable awards were sold off in the 90s. There was a time in the early 90s when Barqs root beer would give away a Soviet medal (or similar object) when you sent them a "proof of purchase." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTXnOubIWOk
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Feb 4, 2022 17:37
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Nenonen posted:Is this the same Nazi fashion in which the Order of Lenin were also individually numbered and marked in a little booklet? I think with the Order of Lenin it was more for tracking the medals, 431,418 were given out in the history of the Soviet Union, and less, "This is so and so's badge so you can't wear it." The Golden Party Badge number was their party membership number, except Hitler's was 1 instead of 555 or 55, they inflated party numbers by 500 in the early days. The Nazis were more obsessed with "stolen valor," mainly from projection because most of them except Hitler and Goring were obsessed with pumping up their own credentials since a lot of their pre-party history was fabricated or misrepresented to make them seem better. Goebbels for instance would not correct rumors or assertions his clubbed foot was a WWI injury because he didn't serve and he was born with it, which obviously isn't a good thing for a high ranking Nazi.
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Feb 4, 2022 17:40
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Cessna posted:There was a time in the early 90s when Barqs root beer would give away a Soviet medal (or similar object) when you sent them a "proof of purchase." Well this is just the most "Triumph of capitalism over communism" thing I've ever seen, in the tackiest way.
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Feb 4, 2022 17:42
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Tomn posted:Well this is just the most "Triumph of capitalism over communism" thing I've ever seen, in the tackiest way. Yeah, it might be absolutely peak early 90s, complete with the neon blue ~~~~way cool!!!~~~~
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Feb 4, 2022 17:44
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Beardless posted:He usually does, and he especially likes to discuss track tensioning. The Chieftain drove M1s and usually spends some quality time with the suspension and tensioning arrangements of anything he covers. He even drives the S-tank when he gets to that one. This is a really well-thought out tank. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOn6QrN6pCA Three parts !
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Feb 4, 2022 18:47
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There's at least one former TC in the thread right? Obviously a taller tank has disadvantages in that it makes it easier to see you, but to you as the TC is the additional visibility that is provided by being higher up an advantage at all?
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Feb 4, 2022 19:02
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feedmegin posted:Chances are the Soviet programmes that followed had a lot of the same staff in, even, especially early on (see: the Stasi being full of former Gestapo) I mean, maybe. But there was a five year period between the October Revolution and the establishment of the Soviet Union (during which zero governments outside of the Baltics recognized the post-Tsarist republic; it was an interesting time) when it was completely up in the air how things were going to shake out, including who was going to win the civil war and what the ultimate structure of government was going to be. The main thing the new people in power did with the imperial secret police was arrest and prosecute them, because the former had spent their entire revolutionary lives being surveilled, persecuted, infiltrated, and killed by the latter. So that would be a long time that any former Okhrana agent would have had to stay underground before they would get a chance to pop up again and join the Soviet apparatus.
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Feb 4, 2022 19:17
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