NFL Draft Thread 2022

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Doltos: Dec 28, 2005; 🤌🤌🤌

Play posted:

this is a very confusing sentence but i gather the gist is that you are superior to all others, no?

Yes. It's also rooted in the overwhelming biological need for a goon to think they came up with the hidden piece of the puzzle when they walk in here talking about not drafting RBs.

Amy Pole Her posted:

Psh Only a goon will say never post a mock
Ignoring this ain�t the forums from 08. All we GOT are redrafts� and Grey Ghost of course

All you've had the past few weeks is defending your racist rear end organization

# ? Feb 8, 2022 23:26

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# ? May 7, 2024 06:04

Big Ol Marsh Pussy: Jan 7, 2007

drat it feels good to still have relevant football to play and not worry about any of this

# ? Feb 8, 2022 23:41

TheGreyGhost: Feb 14, 2012; �Go win the Heimlich Trophy!�

Play posted:

hey I didn't say anything against Grey Ghost!!

just that those three gripes were unrelated things that I doubt anyone here has the exact same opinions on, and I don't recall anyone mentioning strongside linebackers at all before that.

anyways, my (revolutionary, I know) strategy in terms of positional value is to draft the best players you possibly can, preferably but not determinedly at positions of relative need. if a center is actually a worthy pick at that kind of spot, which could be the case in what I see as a surprisingly weak draft, and if your team actually needs a good long term center, I don't see the issue with drafting one. Do the Colts regret drafting Quenton Nelson (guard I know, but why would a guard be worth more than a center?) at that exact same spot? how about Ryan Kelly at pick 18?

whether that guy is worth it is another question, that I'm not sure about yet regardless of the fact that he beat vita vea in wrestling

with RBs the actual rationale is that all teams don't value them enough to draft them high, so you might as well not do so because you know good backs will be available later in the draft. that makes total sense. not drafting them at all is incredibly stupid though, of course, even if sometimes you can hit on an undrafted RB. McCaffrey, Cook, Henry, Jacobs, etc. have all brought great value to their respective teams and they were all first and second round backs.

I don't disagree in a sense. My take on roster building is odd because it's a mixture of extremely bloodless "highest margin over replacement" preferences put up against not taking dudes with obvious problems on tape. Really though, the problem with RBs is that it's just a game of inverse incentives the whole way around.

1. Tautology that RBs are worth nothing means most teams devalue them because they're worth nothing and replaceable. Guys who produce like a first rounder from 20 years ago can be had in the third round because most teams handle that valuation as such. In essence, RBs are like any other speculative asset--they're only worth what the overall market wants to pay as a position, even if there will be edge cases and blue chips throughout that take outlier capital and payments.

2. You only ever have 1 on the field if you're 90% of NFL teams, meaning no need for depth and market saturation, considering like 100 RBs become draft eligible in FBS alone every year. This depresses value.

3. The 25th-75th percentile performances for RBs aren't that insane of a curve. RBs who don't work get cut faster than almost anyone because it's glaringly easy to spot, so the floor to play the position is higher than a lot of positions because there's only ever one and you know what you're looking for.

4. They're the single highest ratio of touches to contact on the field, meaning you're always going to be putting more miles on them marginally than anyone else on the team, even if they're that much better.

5. Their health tends to be a very sudden and swift end, relative to QB or OL where guys just gradually lose their ability or WR where you can do things like move to the slot to prolong a career.

6. The market in offense right now is to run an offense that can theoretically attack anywhere in the passing game to open both passing and running lanes out of sheer panic--as such, the marginal utility of a guy who gains 1 extra YPC is potentially questioned by a WR/TE who can force a safety to play 3 extra yards back and potentially allow more space for the back to run, regardless of actual ability.

And that's all before you get to rookie wage vs. RB career shelf life issues or any other things that Rovell or Schefter jerk off in a closet thinking about.

So all that said, do I think RBs are undervalued right now? Probably. Look at what the Browns could pull off this year with terrible quarterbacking and a defense that played the exact same coverage on 60% of downs. A good running game that actually makes PA a convincing threat is never going to go away--it's just a matter of if you can craft a complimentary team to that. If you have a defense that can hold an opposing team's explosive plays down, you could absolutely get by on being a good running team that throws PA shots--the Niners or Titans prove that. The problem is that to some extent, the only reason you can build those defenses now is investing high picks in the CB/Edge infrastructure needed to limit things. A world where RBs occupy those spots more inevitably pushes DBs/WRs down in the pecking order and LBs up, but the math in the passing game for running 11 personnel now is just so proven that I just don't see the valuations changing drastically. Defenses tend to draft/build reactively to the market, so until you see teams go full Shanahan and run every run scheme in the world to hide their QBs, it's hard to see the market shift as a whole right now.

# ? Feb 8, 2022 23:45

Silly Burrito: Nov 27, 2007; SET A COURSE FOR
THE FLAVOR QUADRANT

MrLogan posted:

Some of us are hoping a third gets Ramczyk when the Saints start the fire sale.

I'd love a first rounder for Taysom Hill too but

Ornery and Hornery posted:

they have a choice?

From https://neworleans.football/how-the-saints-can-clear-80-90-million-in-cap-space-this-offseason-without-cutting-anyone/

quote:

The first place you always want to look for breathing room is roster bonuses. New Orleans puts these in the future years of contracts and later converts them into signing bonuses. Doing this allows the team to prorate the cap hit over the contract�s life instead of taking it all on at once. This amount can be spread out over five years. The Saints will typically tack on voidable years to maximize the savings in the current year, but I�m only going to use the years on the books while doing this.

Here are the players who have roster bonuses and how much the Saints can save by reworking their deals:

� Marshon Lattimore: $15 million roster bonus. Total savings of $12 million.
� Taysom Hill: $9 million roster bonus. Total savings of $7.2 million.
� Ryan Ramczyk: $8.5 million roster bonus. Total savings of $6.8 million.
� Alvin Kamara: $6 million roster bonus. Total savings of $4.5 million.

Total savings from converting roster bonuses: $30.5 million

Players with big base salaries are also often targeted for cap savings. This process works the same way as the roster bonus. The team can take the base salary, convert it into a signing bonus and prorate the cap hit instead of taking it all on at once. The downside is it pushes money into the future and creates bigger burdens.

Here are some players with high base salaries.

� Michael Thomas. $15.35 million base salary. Total savings of $10.2 million.
� Cam Jordan: $13.6 million base salary. Total savings of $9.1 million.
� Andrus Peat: $10.85 million base salary. Total savings of $7.2 million.
� Ryan Ramczyk: $10.5 million base salary. Total savings of $8.4 million.
� Marshon Lattimore: $9.1 million base salary. Total savings of $7.3 million.
� Bradley Roby: $9.5 million base salary. Total savings of $7.1 million.
� Demario Davis: $7.5 million base salary. Total savings of $5 million.
� David Onyemata: $7.5 million base salary. Total savings of $3.8 million

Total savings from converting base salaries: $58,100,000

Not all of these moves are realistic or wise. Converting someone�s base salary essentially extends your commitment to that player and makes it harder to escape their deals in the future. So, New Orleans will have some decisions to make when moving forward. Roby, for example, is more likely to be released than restructured. His release would create $9.4 million in cap space.

The Saints will also almost certainly add some voidable years to Marcus Davenport�s fifth-year option and lower his $9 million cap hit down to something around $3 or 4 million. That clears at least another $5 million in cap space.

There is an extremely realistic path to clearing $80-90 million in cap space without cutting anyone or doing anything aggressive with the contracts.

# ? Feb 8, 2022 23:47

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:

Yes you can find talent in every round of the draft. The best value in drafting is trying to pick the most physically talented players with the most projectable history/production with the least injury issues at the most important positions. A center or guard is already way behind nearly every other position (aside strong side LBs I guess) in the last category so they have to be an absurd outlier at the other categories to get drafted high in the first. It's something the NFL understands about drafting that a lot of people on this forum don't get which is why this argument comes up every year for a decade.

Jamarr Chase is a good example in a way because, even though WR is a much more valuable position, people like to use top ten picks for physical freak athletes at the most important spots (QB, LT, DE, maybe CB) and 'you can always find good receivers later in the draft'. But he was such a outlier in terms of measurables and was so insanely productive in college so it made sense to pick him that high because it was really really likely that it would translate into a dominant player.

There are still people out there who think they should have taken Penei Sewell

# ? Feb 8, 2022 23:50

Hamhandler: Aug 9, 2008; [I want to] shit in your fucking mouth. [I'm going to] slap your fucking mouth. [I'm going to] slap your real mother across the face [laughter]. Fuck you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you.

TheGreyGhost posted:

I don't disagree in a sense. My take on roster building is odd because it's a mixture of extremely bloodless "highest margin over replacement" preferences put up against not taking dudes with obvious problems on tape. Really though, the problem with RBs is that it's just a game of inverse incentives the whole way around.

1. Tautology that RBs are worth nothing means most teams devalue them because they're worth nothing and replaceable. Guys who produce like a first rounder from 20 years ago can be had in the third round because most teams handle that valuation as such. In essence, RBs are like any other speculative asset--they're only worth what the overall market wants to pay as a position, even if there will be edge cases and blue chips throughout that take outlier capital and payments.

2. You only ever have 1 on the field if you're 90% of NFL teams, meaning no need for depth and market saturation, considering like 100 RBs become draft eligible in FBS alone every year. This depresses value.

3. The 25th-75th percentile performances for RBs aren't that insane of a curve. RBs who don't work get cut faster than almost anyone because it's glaringly easy to spot, so the floor to play the position is higher than a lot of positions because there's only ever one and you know what you're looking for.

4. They're the single highest ratio of touches to contact on the field, meaning you're always going to be putting more miles on them marginally than anyone else on the team, even if they're that much better.

5. Their health tends to be a very sudden and swift end, relative to QB or OL where guys just gradually lose their ability or WR where you can do things like move to the slot to prolong a career.

6. The market in offense right now is to run an offense that can theoretically attack anywhere in the passing game to open both passing and running lanes out of sheer panic--as such, the marginal utility of a guy who gains 1 extra YPC is potentially questioned by a WR/TE who can force a safety to play 3 extra yards back and potentially allow more space for the back to run, regardless of actual ability.

And that's all before you get to rookie wage vs. RB career shelf life issues or any other things that Rovell or Schefter jerk off in a closet thinking about.

So all that said, do I think RBs are undervalued right now? Probably. Look at what the Browns could pull off this year with terrible quarterbacking and a defense that played the exact same coverage on 60% of downs. A good running game that actually makes PA a convincing threat is never going to go away--it's just a matter of if you can craft a complimentary team to that. If you have a defense that can hold an opposing team's explosive plays down, you could absolutely get by on being a good running team that throws PA shots--the Niners or Titans prove that. The problem is that to some extent, the only reason you can build those defenses now is investing high picks in the CB/Edge infrastructure needed to limit things. A world where RBs occupy those spots more inevitably pushes DBs/WRs down in the pecking order and LBs up, but the math in the passing game for running 11 personnel now is just so proven that I just don't see the valuations changing drastically. Defenses tend to draft/build reactively to the market, so until you see teams go full Shanahan and run every run scheme in the world to hide their QBs, it's hard to see the market shift as a whole right now.

can you tell me the difference between outside zone, wide zone, and stretch zone while we have you here?

from what I've gathered is they're different aiming points for the back, and wide zone is going to be more designed to cut inside and outside more towards taking the edge if it's there... is stretch zone different, or a synonym for one of the two basically?

# ? Feb 8, 2022 23:54

Doltos: Dec 28, 2005; 🤌🤌🤌

Hamhandler posted:

can you tell me the difference between outside zone, wide zone, and stretch zone while we have you here?

from what I've gathered is they're different aiming points for the back, and wide zone is going to be more designed to cut inside and outside more towards taking the edge if it's there... is stretch zone different, or a synonym for one of the two basically?

Just where you run. Inside zone is on your guard, wide zone is off your tackle, and outside zone is lining up your RB by your TE. The differences in blocking schemes for Oline comes down to where you plant your drive foot before engaging in a block. So for instance inside zone teams will have guards driving with their play side foot to hit defenders with double teams and second level gap seals.

# ? Feb 9, 2022 00:26

TheGreyGhost: Feb 14, 2012; �Go win the Heimlich Trophy!�

Hamhandler posted:

can you tell me the difference between outside zone, wide zone, and stretch zone while we have you here?

from what I've gathered is they're different aiming points for the back, and wide zone is going to be more designed to cut inside and outside more towards taking the edge if it's there... is stretch zone different, or a synonym for one of the two basically?

So, a lot of coaches won't really teach there being a difference and will interchange. From some of the offseason reading I did, there are at least distinctions between Outside Zone and Wide zone by people like Alex Gibbs.

Outside zone is probably the most narrow definition--get to the true edge (TE or T, whoever is farthest out), cut based on the sealed block, back goes upfield from the cut. You're essentially trying to run at the D gap or beyond and beat the entire defense to one point on the map. Most often, Stretch Zone is synonymous with this since it aims essentially beyond where all your blockers line up to stretch the whole of the defense.

Wide zone brings the target in--it's always the playside T's hips that a back runs to with the same note that they cut based on where the block seals and go, with one big caveat. Wide zone will allow for an inside lane for if a defense slants or overloads or fits the edge on the playside, and it's only trying to go as wide as the C gap but will settle for B or even A. This often can look like a cutback, but it's sort of debatable if it is or not (Alex Gibbs would say no since it's just trying to create a double team that a back recognizes inside of like 3-4 steps, modern guys would disagree). It's nominally harder to do, but a good back who makes good decisions and hits holes fast can do more damage with it since it's a more accommodating design and allows a bit more variety.

Really, if we were being honest, the plays should be called inside zone, mid zone, and outside zone, but we do this tight/inside, wide, outside chicanery because Alex Gibbs had serious opinions about it and we pretend the 90s Broncos were better than they were.

# ? Feb 9, 2022 00:29

TheGreyGhost: Feb 14, 2012; �Go win the Heimlich Trophy!�

Doltos posted:

Just where you run. Inside zone is on your guard, wide zone is off your tackle, and outside zone is lining up your RB by your TE. The differences in blocking schemes for Oline comes down to where you plant your drive foot before engaging in a block. So for instance inside zone teams will have guards driving with their play side foot to hit defenders with double teams and second level gap seals.

This beat me to it and describes the climbing action as well. Another thing to think about is that the further you try to stretch wide, the less a lineman can initially step out, so it's partial calculus of how far versus out the line is trying to go.

# ? Feb 9, 2022 00:30

Cavauro: Jan 9, 2008

Anybnody of the smart guys know why Drew Sample got drafted in the second round?

# ? Feb 9, 2022 00:33

Henchman of Santa: Aug 21, 2010

Can we have an RB rundown while we're on the subject?

# ? Feb 9, 2022 00:36

Chucktesla: Jul 13, 2014

Seems like a good draft to get a good complimentary back or an underused workhorse back with an incomplete skillset to hold you over until next year when Robinson, Charbonnet and bigsby are available

# ? Feb 9, 2022 01:20

TheGreyGhost: Feb 14, 2012; �Go win the Heimlich Trophy!�

Henchman of Santa posted:

Can we have an RB rundown while we're on the subject?

Chucktesla posted:

Seems like a good draft to get a good complimentary back or an underused workhorse back with an incomplete skillset to hold you over until next year when Robinson, Charbonnet and bigsby are available

More or less this. I�m watching some tape, but RBs this year are essentially awesome if you need a zone guy and meh with a couple gems if you�re looking to run gap schemes for my initial take. Doltos might beat me to the effort post since he seems to take more interest in the position than me. Odd class to my eye.

# ? Feb 9, 2022 06:20

Amy Pole Her: Jun 17, 2002

Doltos posted:

All you've had the past few weeks is defending your racist rear end organization

You�re in for a shock when you actually read the complaint. Turns out the real racists were from Jersey! (Unbelievable, I know)

Amy Pole Her fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Feb 9, 2022

# ? Feb 9, 2022 12:51

Doltos: Dec 28, 2005; 🤌🤌🤌

Yeah the difference is I don't knee jerk defend my racist rear end team lmao

# ? Feb 9, 2022 18:15

Chucktesla: Jul 13, 2014

Please tell me there is a decent power/short yardage back that can pass pro besides Dameon Pierce that will be available on day three, Joshua Kelley and Larry rountree just aren't getting it done

# ? Feb 9, 2022 18:56

Diva Cupcake: Aug 15, 2005

Have you seen the BYU back? Allegier. He looks like a bruiser.

# ? Feb 9, 2022 19:03

Chucktesla: Jul 13, 2014

I feel like he's gonna be gone by round 3

# ? Feb 9, 2022 19:14

Amy Pole Her: Jun 17, 2002

Doltos posted:

Yeah the difference is I don't knee jerk defend my racist rear end team lmao

The projection. Woof. Why mess up Greys top notch analysis with your strange misinterpretation of the Flores� complaint? Cmon man we can all enjoy watchin the clips!

# ? Feb 9, 2022 20:29

Eifert Posting: Apr 1, 2007; Most of the time he catches it every time.; Grimey Drawer

Big Ol Marsh Pussy posted:

drat it feels good to still have relevant football to play and not worry about any of this

I haven't done a mock in like a month.

Well... 4 weeks.

# ? Feb 9, 2022 20:33

YOLOsubmarine: Oct 19, 2004; When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."

Eifert Posting posted:

I haven't done a mock in like a month.

Well... 4 weeks.

Hard to care about the draft when you�re going to be picking last

# ? Feb 9, 2022 20:42

Amy Pole Her: Jun 17, 2002

It�s a mad world that Mike Browns nailing the draft but alas.. it�s inspiration for the rest of us fans of bottom dwellers

# ? Feb 9, 2022 21:01

The Puppy Bowl: Jan 31, 2013; A dog, in the house.

*woof*

Bengals have been phenomenal drafters for over a decade. Marvin Lewis ran a great scouting department which admittedly was a complete reformation of what existed before his tenure.

I was definitely one of those who strongly believed the Bengals should go Sewell over Chase. Badly underrated Chase's talent and the value of his prior connection to Burrow.

# ? Feb 9, 2022 21:07

GOOD TIMES ON METH: Mar 17, 2006; Fun Shoe

Mike Brown isn't doing the drafting, he hired competent executives and scouts to do it. Stephen Ross hasn't seemed interested in this approach

# ? Feb 9, 2022 21:16

Eifert Posting: Apr 1, 2007; Most of the time he catches it every time.; Grimey Drawer

Genuinely outside of insecure GMs I have no idea why more teams don't actively involve coaches in the scouting process The way the Bengals do. They had a few years where they struggled in the draft but on a whole ever since about 2009 they've been very strong.

# ? Feb 9, 2022 21:20

Amy Pole Her: Jun 17, 2002

GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:

Mike Brown isn't doing the drafting, he hired competent executives and scouts to do it. Stephen Ross hasn't seemed interested in this approach

But Grier!

Meh. Guess we�ll see what effect McDaniel will have with Grier. He pretty openly collaborated with his HC on the draft

Amy Pole Her fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Feb 9, 2022

# ? Feb 9, 2022 21:26

Cavauro: Jan 9, 2008

bengals haven't made a great selection under zac taylor that wasn't the obvious pick. just kidding. the kicker rocks

# ? Feb 9, 2022 21:31

Chucktesla: Jul 13, 2014

Picking a great quarterback in the draft makes everyone look like geniuses. Justin Herbert bought Tom telesco like three more years as chargers gm even though you can look at the rest of that 2020 class and wonder why anyone responsible for that still has a job

# ? Feb 9, 2022 21:42

Eifert Posting: Apr 1, 2007; Most of the time he catches it every time.; Grimey Drawer

They just need to figure out how to draft offensive linemen remotely consistently.

Literally the only time they drafted a lineman in the past 8 years who's worth a drat was when he was the first offensive lineman off the board.

Ogbuehi, Price: 1st round, awful
Fisher: Second round, awful
Bodine, Jordan: 4th round, awful.

I'm not going to drag players in the later rounds but the only one they've gotten rounds 5 through 7 That I would say belongs in the league is the current worst lineman starting right now and at best seems like a career backup. It's too early to talk about the two guys they drafted this year in the first four rounds, Carman has been a disappointment this year and Smith might have potential but who knows.

# ? Feb 9, 2022 21:51

BlindSite: Feb 8, 2009

Eifert Posting posted:

Genuinely outside of insecure GMs I have no idea why more teams don't actively involve coaches in the scouting process The way the Bengals do. They had a few years where they struggled in the draft but on a whole ever since about 2009 they've been very strong.

They'll always have input but coaches more than GMs seem to have that issue where they just fall in love with a prospect and overlook their short comings, seemingly under the belief that despite all evidence to the contrary they'll be able to fix their flaws. That and you get dumb poo poo like Matt Rhule having a weird fetish for giant long arms, so much so that he wouldn't let the best LT on the roster play LT and believed that a rookie AP tackle was a guard and projected to a guard and despite playing all season at LT well for the chargers, still referred to him as a guard.

I think coaches should always have their input because you don't want some high pick never seeing the field because the coach doesn't like him but its definitely a balancing act.

# ? Feb 9, 2022 23:17

Doltos: Dec 28, 2005; 🤌🤌🤌

Henchman of Santa posted:

Can we have an RB rundown while we're on the subject?

Lots of mediocre talent with Isaiah Spiller flirting with a top 50 pick.

Kenneth Walker is a shifty bowling ball that should have been in the top 4 Heisman discussion for the Miami game alone and also a one year wonder. Mel Tucker kind of let him do whatever he wanted this year which transformed him from a one cut back to a workhorse. He's got solid burst, nothing world beating, and keeps his feet churning. Could see him sticking but I don't know if he can get past the same arm tackles he got a lot in the big ten. Isaiah Spiller is a fluid athlete, big, powerful, good hands. Took a ton of shotgun snaps in that offense and basically got to work against DEs a lot. Really strong feet but he's not going to break anyones ankles. Probably wouldn't be much in a traditional pro set but you never know with big guys. He's fast enough but probably won't blaze into the second level. Don't really need that if you're running 4 personnel though. Breece Hall is the Matt Campbell career maker. Another big, all world athlete. Wants to blow past everyone with his speed. Doesn't block worth a poo poo but you probably wouldn't use him on passing downs anyway. Can be a power back and was definitely used in a ton of goal line situations, juts seems to not be his forte. Don't really blame him though especially considering how fast he is. James Cook was part of Georgia's run game this year. Not very good, super shifty though. Could probably be a very annoying change of pace back to deal with. Kyren Williams is ND's guy. He's kind of small even though they list him at 200. Very hard to tackle. Never stops running, gets thin, falls forward. Another annoying change of pace guy probably. Can't block worth a poo poo as well. Can catch passes. Zamir White destroyed his leg in several places several times and lost all his speed. Could have been a top 5 pick but is now just a plodding example of why football is an awesome blood sport. Big Brian Robinson was Nick Saban's brilliant solution to everyone being smaller than Bama. Is just very big. That's it. Sat forever, got injured, still might be taken high. I see him as a pure battering ram at the next level. Way too slow to be a feature back. Dameon Pierce is a weird old school RB that was used for blocking a lot and hammering short yardage plays. Decently fast, very explosive. Super underutilized because he just didn't fit their offense, also didn't help that the whole Gators program was in a state of flux with their coaching problems.. Might be a sneaky later pick. Rachaad White is one of the weirdest prospects and I don't know why he's a RB. Herm is a beautiful enigma. Anyway White is a WR playing RB for some reason. Literally Ty Montgomery. I don't know why he's there. As a WR he's a pretty decent 2nd day prospect, as a RB he might be perfect in an air raid offense but probably nothing else. He's also old and a JUCO transfer so who knows what his potential could be with right coaching. Jerome Ford was a wash out for Bama's insanely deep backfield and ended up being one of the myriad of transfers that flood out of Bama every year. Ended up at Cinci and was probably the only glimmer of hope they had in the playoffs against Bama. One of the best pure runners in the draft. Going to probably be one of the best testers at the combine with Hall. Great burst, great change of direction, really smart, good size. Probably a 2nd round pick but he's not a third down back at all and will probably fall because of that.

I might have to part two this because there's literally like 10 more RBs that are all 2nd-5th round picks.

# ? Feb 9, 2022 23:38

TheGreyGhost: Feb 14, 2012; �Go win the Heimlich Trophy!�

Doltos posted:

Lots of mediocre talent with Isaiah Spiller flirting with a top 50 pick.

Kenneth Walker is a shifty bowling ball that should have been in the top 4 Heisman discussion for the Miami game alone and also a one year wonder. Mel Tucker kind of let him do whatever he wanted this year which transformed him from a one cut back to a workhorse. He's got solid burst, nothing world beating, and keeps his feet churning. Could see him sticking but I don't know if he can get past the same arm tackles he got a lot in the big ten.

Co-sign. He got to go against a lot of incredibly bad tackling for a good chunk of the year, but what's impressive is that OL really didn't do him many favors. He had great vision, but I just don't know if he's fast enough or big enough to really be able to do the same omnitool stuff at the next level. My concern is essentially that he's going to show up to the league and start playing like Knowshon Moreno or Isaiah Crowell where he puts up some crazy games here and there but just isn't dynamic enough to matter.

quote:

Isaiah Spiller is a fluid athlete, big, powerful, good hands. Took a ton of shotgun snaps in that offense and basically got to work against DEs a lot. Really strong feet but he's not going to break anyones ankles. Probably wouldn't be much in a traditional pro set but you never know with big guys. He's fast enough but probably won't blaze into the second level. Don't really need that if you're running 4 personnel though.

I like him as essentially an in-between of Joe Mixon and what the Bengals used to ask Gio Bernard to do. He's not big enough to really run at guys, and he's not going to break a poo poo load of tackles so much as just be really sudden and kind of drag forward for a few extra yards. I do think he could be an interesting every-down back though which is a rarity in this class.

quote:

Breece Hall is the Matt Campbell career maker. Another big, all world athlete. Wants to blow past everyone with his speed. Doesn't block worth a poo poo but you probably wouldn't use him on passing downs anyway. Can be a power back and was definitely used in a ton of goal line situations, juts seems to not be his forte. Don't really blame him though especially considering how fast he is.

Mostly agree. He's got big D'Onta Foreman energy where he's sort of inexplicably fast for his frame but doesn't really look like a true burner on the tape to me just because of how long that OL took to develop his blocks and how far along run fits would occasionally be. I think he could easily turn out to be the best in the class, but I'm worried about mileage with him too given how many carriers he's had and how dependent on his burst he is.

quote:

James Cook was part of Georgia's run game this year. Not very good, super shifty though. Could probably be a very annoying change of pace back to deal with.

Eh, I think he's going to be an elite 3rd down back for a team that wants that. He's a really good receiver and blocker in the backfield, so I think you put up with the fact that he misses holes on occasion trying to freelance. A good OL could make him look like a loving genius and get him paid once until he's out of their protective shield and starts missing reads. Call him something between Gio Bernard and Kareem Hunt.

quote:

Kyren Williams is ND's guy. He's kind of small even though they list him at 200. Very hard to tackle. Never stops running, gets thin, falls forward. Another annoying change of pace guy probably. Can't block worth a poo poo as well. Can catch passes.

I love to watch him play, but he's a 3rd down back exclusively, so long as your line isn't poo poo. Kelly's so dependent on zone looks to get his guys space to move out there that they have some super bad habits when it comes to trying to be decisive in the NFL or trying to do anything. I like him as a comparison to what Chuba Hubbard was.

quote:

Zamir White destroyed his leg in several places several times and lost all his speed. Could have been a top 5 pick but is now just a plodding example of why football is an awesome blood sport.

If we're talking about the dude where some NFL PEDs or time off might make him outplay his position--it's Zeus. It's unlikely as hell, but if you watch his tape he should've been a Zeke/Gurley caliber back. Could be a Zach Moss for you though.

quote:

Big Brian Robinson was Nick Saban's brilliant solution to everyone being smaller than Bama. Is just very big. That's it. Sat forever, got injured, still might be taken high. I see him as a pure battering ram at the next level. Way too slow to be a feature back.

TJ Yeldon without the burst. The single worst Saban back since Glenn Coffee.

quote:

Dameon Pierce is a weird old school RB that was used for blocking a lot and hammering short yardage plays. Decently fast, very explosive. Super underutilized because he just didn't fit their offense, also didn't help that the whole Gators program was in a state of flux with their coaching problems.. Might be a sneaky later pick.

Agreed here. I actually think the smart move would be to use him the way the Steelers tried to use Najee this year--let him run but try to keep giving him matchups where he can grab the ball and run.

quote:

Rachaad White is one of the weirdest prospects and I don't know why he's a RB. Herm is a beautiful enigma. Anyway White is a WR playing RB for some reason. Literally Ty Montgomery. I don't know why he's there. As a WR he's a pretty decent 2nd day prospect, as a RB he might be perfect in an air raid offense but probably nothing else. He's also old and a JUCO transfer so who knows what his potential could be with right coaching.

Agreed on the skillset, but I would say he's more similar to Rod Smith from a few years ago where he can inexplicably run through his entire offense on a play and then looks like he's on another planet or another. Having him do what N'Keal Harry or Brandon Aiyuk did for them would've been a smarter move, but maybe he's just a guy who cannot handle

quote:

Jerome Ford was a wash out for Bama's insanely deep backfield and ended up being one of the myriad of transfers that flood out of Bama every year. Ended up at Cinci and was probably the only glimmer of hope they had in the playoffs against Bama. One of the best pure runners in the draft. Going to probably be one of the best testers at the combine with Hall. Great burst, great change of direction, really smart, good size. Probably a 2nd round pick but he's not a third down back at all and will probably fall because of that.

Ford might be the best back for actual running out there this year, but holy poo poo can he not catch or block consistently--got Ridder killed a couple times.

# ? Feb 10, 2022 01:26

The Puppy Bowl: Jan 31, 2013; A dog, in the house.

*woof*

I've watched a couple of RB cut ups and of those Ford and Walker were the only ones that really impressed. If Ford's passing game limitations dropped him to the 4th I'd be all about that for depth in the Raven's run heavy offense.

# ? Feb 10, 2022 04:34

Eifert Posting: Apr 1, 2007; Most of the time he catches it every time.; Grimey Drawer

I think Ford will be excellent in the nfl.

# ? Feb 10, 2022 04:51

Chucktesla: Jul 13, 2014

Doltos posted:

Dameon Pierce is a weird old school RB that was used for blocking a lot and hammering short yardage plays. Decently fast, very explosive. Super underutilized because he just didn't fit their offense, also didn't help that the whole Gators program was in a state of flux with their coaching problems.. Might be a sneaky later pick.

Seems like he has decent hands too. I wouldn't want to have them live in 20/21/22 personnel with a 220 pounder playing fullback, but having Ekeler and Pierce on the field at the same time and being able to line up in the I or empty with five viable pass catchers sounds like something a saints-style offense would love to have

# ? Feb 10, 2022 05:26

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

Just kill me

https://twitter.com/allbrightnfl/status/1492248698184552448?s=21

# ? Feb 11, 2022 22:50

Ches Neckbeard: Dec 3, 2005; You're all garbage, back up the truck BACK IT UP!

Better than Darnold

# ? Feb 11, 2022 22:57

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

That good, huh

# ? Feb 11, 2022 22:59

TheGreyGhost: Feb 14, 2012; �Go win the Heimlich Trophy!�

FizFashizzle posted:

Just kill me

https://twitter.com/allbrightnfl/status/1492248698184552448?s=21

Figuring out QB1 on the team draft boards right now is a funny exercise.

- Ridder probably is going to be a weird "majority" QB1. Part of it is because he meets the Parcells rules and won; part of it is because he's got raw talent and isn't obviously going to limit the offense; part of it is that he's a top-3 processor in the draft on making reads. E.g. the most old school and most overconfident new school guys are both going to like him.

- Corral just doesn't do any one thing well enough to be QB1, especially in his Fisher Price offense, even if I think he's the best risk/reward guy. He's going to be a consistent QB 2/3 on most boards as a result. I'm so so worried he's going to be a Rosen at this point.

- Pickett is similar to Corral but will have the benefit of play "pro style" (read: boring) football prior to this year. He's probably the cleanest progression guy so hey, just hope you give him time to think. He'll be QB1 for coaches who need to win immediately or the risk averse but doesn't have crazy upside. Maybe someone will think he's a new Burrow.

- Willis is going to be the yearly tools guy--if you sat him for a year maybe he could be good. A coach who feels zero pressure but needs a QB could Mahomes him. Or he could be Jake Locker. Exciting! Someone will have him as a QB1 and talk themselves into him as a Josh Allen/Mahomes reclamation of raw talent (this is a bad gamble statistically but also extremely cool and funny)

- Howell is going to be so so so loving bad man. He's like 70% of Corral in every conceivable meaning of the phrase. No one's putting him at QB1

# ? Feb 11, 2022 23:03

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# ? May 7, 2024 06:04

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

FizFashizzle posted:

Just kill me

https://twitter.com/allbrightnfl/status/1492248698184552448?s=21

is he the one with the thumb that doesn't work right

# ? Feb 11, 2022 23:17

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > NFL Draft Thread 2022

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