|
dordreff posted:Tracking the Chupacabra: The Vampire Beast in Fact, Fiction and Folklore by Benjamin Radford is pretty good. Very in-depth investigation of the spread and origins of the chupacabra, both the Texas style hairless dog type and the original Peurto Rican lizard monster type. The writing is a bit dry and academic sometimes but the investigation is well done and his conclusions are interesting. He's also written a few similar books on other paranormal topics, though none of them focus on one specific cryptid like the Chupacabra one does. This dude IMO pretty definitely lays out what inspired the original Chupacabra sighting and the answer is both interesting and pretty funny. There's an episode of the Monstertalk podcast that goes into it as well. Radford used to be a cohost on that back when I started listening but left the show amidst sexual harassment allegations from one of the other hosts. I remember reading up on it at the time (back when I had way too much time on my hands) because I was interested to see why he left and from I remember the "skeptical community" (lol) is also pretty skeptical when it comes to abuse allegations! Book is still worth a read, at least to me, but that's what I think of whenever I see that guys name. On the less credible front, Mysterious America by Loren Coleman has been one of my favorites since I was a kid. The tone is serious and semi-academic but Coleman fully believes that there is for example an unidentified species of American lion roaming the midwest, and he makes a better case than most. Coleman is true believer but he does good research and witness interviews. It's kind of endearing- it makes me wish I could still believe in Bigfoot and some of the stories still creep me out if I read them at night in the right mood. Edit: Should have kept reading. twistedmentat beat me to the point about Radford and put it better to boot. Double Edit: Speaking of podcasts Monsters Among Us is one I really like. It's a call in show where people report monster experiences and other supernatural stuff. The host is very cheesy in a way that really works for me (he has a good radio voice but really leans into sounding mysterious and dramatic). The stories are all over the place- anywhere from a mundane "I saw moving lights in the sky" to "a flying demon pulled me out of my trailer". I'd recommend checking out the "Hometown Legends" episodes for starters- those are explicitly people calling in local urban legends. It's a good show to just throw on since you don't really need to pay attention to any given story and it has good, spooky audio design. This is one of the only threads I actually post in so hopefully I haven't made this recommendation before. BrownPepper has a new favorite as of 18:47 on Feb 13, 2022 |
#
?
Feb 13, 2022 18:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 08:40 |
|
|
I'm listening to an interesting episode of MonsterTalk this morning, about the paranormal aspects of Bigfoot encounters vs the "actual species" interpretation of them. They have two guests on who are true believers, but in Bigfoot as part of a spectrum of some type of paranormal entity rather than an animal species. The interesting part is learning that a lot of the famous Bigfoot encounter stories have a bunch of other weird elements that don't make it to typical recounts, presumably because they shift the story away from them just being some kind of mysterious animal. I know there are lots of stories that have a bit of that, it's just the scale of this that surprises me. Like, the famous Ape Canyon encounter (miners shoot at one, then get their cabin harassed all night by a pack of them)? Turns out the original account has multiple ghosts and a sign in the sky leading them to the mine, and a pencil that magically appears for one of the miners in his moment of need. It's absolutely bonkers compared to the version I've heard. I don't believe in either possibility but honestly, I'd probably find full-on supernatural wackiness easier to swallow than there being some kind of lost ape species living all over the country without anyone ever finding a shred of verifiable evidence. e: Turns out this was a March 31 episode, I hope I'm being April Fooled 
Captain Hygiene has a new favorite as of 19:40 on Feb 13, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2022 18:54
|
|
|
Captain Hygiene posted:e: And..... I'm apparently not?  I was thinking, the cryptozoology/paranormal believer overlap is wild enough that I'd easily believe someone could have any one of the views addressed here, but it went on long enough that I became certain it was an extended comedy bit. It is a crazy listen, two guys who come off as pleasant, funny, and intelligent straightfacedly explaining that they don't believe in the extraterrestrial hypothesis for UFOs, because they're related to fairy manifestations. And uniting that, Bigfoot, orbs, a woman in white, and I forget what else on the way to finding a commonality between worldwide folklore. Completely wild 
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2022 20:50
|
|
|
Yeah the multi-dimensional Bigfoot thing is more and more of a trend. I think with the rise of cellphone cameras and non-stop social media access to everything the writing is on the wall for a lot of people as far as these things being real animals. So the culture pivots to stuff that's lot harder to empirically prove. But its been around since at least the 70's- check out John Keel's Guide to Mysterious Creatures. I think of it as kind of a parallel trend that is becoming more in vogue with people who legitimately believe/hope that there is something to Bigfoot or whatever other cryptid while the more zoological approach has become a lot more about reality show grifting. Edit: Dumb typos
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2022 21:32
|
|
|
True believers are weird.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2022 22:23
|
|
|
BrownPepper posted:
Loren Coleman is an energetic and, I think, sincere guy but very credulous and perhaps not as smart as he thinks. I saw a talk of his once that completely fell apart 5 minutes into question time when Coleman didn't know some basic biology about his topic. Podcast-wise I always liked Thinking Sideways, which has now finished but there's a huge backlog of episodes. The presenters are sceptical but hardcore debunkers and while they have some irritating tics, these don't overwhelm the show
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2022 23:46
|
|
|
nonathlon posted:Loren Coleman is an energetic and, I think, sincere guy but very credulous and perhaps not as smart as he thinks. I saw a talk of his once that completely fell apart 5 minutes into question time when Coleman didn't know some basic biology about his topic. Yeah I saw him at a lecture some years back and felt the same way. He is sincere and likable, so he got me excited enough to want to believe him, but there was some pretty fundamental stuff even I could see didn't hold up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 01:19
|
|
|
According to Peter Byrne, one of the grand old men of classic Bigfooting, Coleman tried to rip off Byrne's archives http://www.bigfootencounters.com/stories/byrne_on_coleman.htm That's colored my perception of him for a long time now, I see him as an insincere con artist Dr. Jerrold Coe has a new favorite as of 03:39 on Feb 14, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 01:30
|
|
|
BrownPepper posted:Yeah the multi-dimensional Bigfoot thing is more and more of a trend. I think with the rise of cellphone cameras and non-stop social media access to everything the writing is on the wall for a lot of people as far as these things being real animals. So the culture pivots to stuff that's lot harder to empirically prove. But its been around since at least the 70's- check out John Keel's Guide to Mysterious Creatures. I think of it as kind of a parallel trend that is becoming more in vogue with people who legitimately believe/hope that there is something to Bigfoot or whatever other cryptid while the more zoological approach has become a lot more about reality show grifting. Yeah there's been a schism in the 'Squatcher community for decades, they even have to hold separate conventions for the two camps Snowglobe of Doom posted:Bigfoot's psychic powers are also super popular among spiritualists these days, there's a ton of sasquatch oracles who claim to communicate with bigfoot creatures regularly. They even have their own conventions (probably because they're too kooky for the sciencey bigfoot researchers and got laughed out of the regular bigfoot conventions) Snowglobe of Doom posted:Here's another guy who's not quite as kooky as the previous example but still too kooky for the "serious" bigfoot hunters and he's real angry about it
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 02:21
|
|
|
Snowglobe of Doom posted:Yeah there's been a schism in the 'Squatcher community for decades, they even have to hold separate conventions for the two camps Oh yeah, I'm well aware of that too. The two seemingly normal guys just straightfacedly going in at 150% and tying it to all that other supernatural poo poo was what threw me off in this case. Jetto Jagga posted:According to Peter Byrne, one of the grand old man of classic Bigfooting, Coleman tried to rip off Byrne's archives http://www.bigfootencounters.com/stories/byrne_on_coleman.htm Ingesting, I hadn't heard that before and I didn't get those vibes off him at all. Probably nobody trust my character judgment!
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 02:38
|
|
|
Captain Hygiene posted:Oh yeah, I'm well aware of that too. The two seemingly normal guys just straightfacedly going in at 150% and tying it to all that other supernatural poo poo was what threw me off in this case. Oh so you aren't prepared to admit the existence of a magic ape roaming the Pacific Northwest? Sounds like someone needs to keep an open mind. I suggest you look into tulpa though forms and no I don't have schizophrenia. Was that march 31 of this year? it does sound very funny.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 03:22
|
|
|
BrownPepper posted:Oh so you aren't prepared to admit the existence of a magic ape roaming the Pacific Northwest? Sounds like someone needs to keep an open mind. I suggest you look into tulpa though forms and no I don't have schizophrenia. 2021 because March 31 hasn't happened yet this year  It is very funny either way.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 03:53
|
|
|
Yea within Cryptid communities where is a stark divide between people who think they're just searching for an unknown animal and approach it more grounded and science based, and then the people who put a more theosophical lense on everything. I'd also put the young earth creationists in this even though they'd see theosophy as magic and witchcraft. Guess which side has more money and is on TV more often? Yea its not the people who are trying to do this scientifically.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 04:17
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:I'd also put the young earth creationists in this even though they'd see theosophy as magic and witchcraft. They've got their own answer, it's those dang ol nephilim with their mystical part-angel powers causing problems to this day.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 04:25
|
|
|
Captain Hygiene posted:2021 because March 31 hasn't happened yet this year Maybe it hasn't happened yet in your dimension  I know creationist groups have funded trips to search for Mokele-mbembe which is pretty funny. Presumably the idea is that if there's still a living dinosaur it invalidates the fossil record and therefore evolution.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 04:43
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:Guess which side has more money and is on TV more often? Yea its not the people who are trying to do this scientifically. Well there's 'scientific' and then there's  scientific , there's plenty of ghost hunting shows which use bullshit equipment like EMF readers, 'ghost box' radio scanners, laser grid movement detectors, etc etc.. There's a huge amount of these devices being sold on Amazon and eBay and entire companies specializing in this stuff: https://www.ghoststop.com/None of this poo poo is even that new, people were attempting rudimentary EVP audio recordings back in the 1940s and 50s, Tony Cornell from the Cambridge University Society for Psychical Research was building devices which monitored EMF, audio, temperature and movement back in the early 80s, and the Fairy Investigation Society in the UK was using a rudimentary form of ghost box/radio receivers to communicate with marsh fairies back in the 1920s: quote:Sleigh may have been a founding member, but nothing is subsequently heard of him in connection with the FIS: he eventually retired to Gloucestershire, where he lived an idyllic rural existence. Craufurd, however, remained at the heart of the FIS until his death in 1957. His work was, in part, organisational. He wrote, for example, the editorial to the first FIS newsletter. He seems also to have been an ambassador for the organisation, making contact with non-members: including apparently Arthur Conan Doyle, who also corresponded with Claire Cantlon about fairy sightings.8 But he was true, too, to his scientific roots. He continued to experiment and, Craufurd being Craufurd, he experimented with the radio. In 1927, in fact, he was messing around with some form of wireless device when he heard a harmony: “I began with an electrical apparatus of my own design and a nearly worn-out torch-battery, and one day I heard fairy music, the sound of harps and bells.”9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy_Investigation_Society https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-08/the-rise-fall-and-rebirth-of-the-fairy-investigation-society/9382520  The 'Expedition Bigfoot" show on the Travel Channel also used a lot of bullshit scientific equipment. Weirdly enough they also crossed over into the spiritual/conspiracy elements of squatching as well, with weird light orbs appearing in one episode and mysterious black helicopters in another
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 05:24
|
|
|
Snowglobe of Doom posted:Well there's 'scientific' and then there's I love how so much "scienctific" ghost stuff is just recycled pop culture ideas about ghosts from TV and movies.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 05:25
|
|
|
One of the other MonsterTalk episodes I listened to today was about ghost hunting equipment, and it was kind of weird how much of it was "here is an explanation for exactly how this device and/or the environment commonly produce a completely prosaic explanation for the weird things ghost hunters see, also I am still receptive to the idea that ghosts could still be doing some of it" 
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 05:34
|
|
|
Jetto Jagga posted:I love how so much "scienctific" ghost stuff is just recycled pop culture ideas about ghosts from TV and movies. Yea that's why i put that in the magic side of things, also there's no evidence that ghosts do make things colder or whatever so how do they know that stuff works? Though i have to admit the idea of static and white noise actually containing messages from somewhere else is extra creepy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 05:48
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:Yea that's why i put that in the magic side of things, also there's no evidence that ghosts do make things colder or whatever so how do they know that stuff works? Yeah there's a lot of dramatic promise to stuff like that, which is why I like a lot of 70s horror stuff which takes a scientific tack but isn't pure cliche, films like The Changeling and all those great UK ghost stories
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 05:55
|
|
|
A ton of Stephen King novels just kind of take it for granted that psychic abilities are a real thing that is just about to be recognized scientifically. I think it must have been a pretty mainstream idea.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 19:30
|
|
|
The entire third act of the Watchmen graphic novel only makes sense if you take for granted that ESP is real. I would not put it past Alan Moore to have assumed that to be the case.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 20:23
|
|
|
I think at this point it’s more likely there are weird extradimensional beings that are sometimes spotted than a giant ape nobody has a found a body or even taken a decent pic of.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2022 20:45
|
|
|
BrownPepper posted:A ton of Stephen King novels just kind of take it for granted that psychic abilities are a real thing that is just about to be recognized scientifically. I think it must have been a pretty mainstream idea. It was mentioned i think earlier in this thread that in the 70s there was a real sense among, science literate common people and some actual scientists esp and other stuff like that was really something that was just about to be proved to exist and become a fact of life. It was very much "there's so much circumstantial evidence, there has to be something to it!" and no, it was just that it was really easy for hucksters to make people think that they had actual powers. Even when Uri Geller was exposed on Carson with help from James Randi people still really bought into it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD7OgAdCObs
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2022 00:49
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:It was mentioned i think earlier in this thread that in the 70s there was a real sense among, science literate common people and some actual scientists esp and other stuff like that was really something that was just about to be proved to exist and become a fact of life. The Parapsychological Association was created in 1957 "to advance parapsychology as a science, to disseminate knowledge of the field, and to integrate the findings with those of other branches of science". They were accepted as an affiliate organization of the esteemed American Association for the Advancement of Science in 1969 and although attempts have been made to strike them off they're still a member to this day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parapsychological_Association Ambitious Spider posted:I think at this point it’s more likely there are weird extradimensional beings that are sometimes spotted than a giant ape nobody has a found a body or even taken a decent pic of. Alternatively: 
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2022 01:17
|
|
|
That clip is incredible. I don't know about his ESP energy level but Geller has some very powerful Israeli nightclub guy energy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2022 01:26
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:It was very much "there's so much circumstantial evidence, there has to be something to it!" and no, it was just that it was really easy for hucksters to make people think that they had actual powers. Harry Houdini also debunked a lot of fake spiritualists and had a huge falling out with Sir Arthur Conan Doyle over it: quote:In the 1920s, Houdini turned his energies toward debunking psychics and mediums, a pursuit that was in line with the debunkings by stage magicians since the late nineteenth century.[84] Doyle was a massive sucker for this kind of thing, he totally fell for the whole Cottingley Fairies photos hoax and used his fame to really push it in the mass media, even though a lot of other journalists at the time immediately saw through it
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2022 01:42
|
|
|
Now I want a period drama of Doyle and Houdini investigating the paranormal like a latter day Mulder and Scully. Doyle will have a framed needlework picture in his study of a classic-looking ghost with the words “I want to believe” under it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2022 02:18
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:Now I want a period drama of Doyle and Houdini investigating the paranormal like a latter day Mulder and Scully. Doyle will have a framed needlework picture in his study of a classic-looking ghost with the words “I want to believe” under it. "Joaquín Argamasilla, known as the 'Spaniard with X-ray Eyes'" could be an early recurring villain. Not as scary as Tooms IMO.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2022 02:35
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:Now I want a period drama of Doyle and Houdini investigating the paranormal like a latter day Mulder and Scully. Doyle will have a framed needlework picture in his study of a classic-looking ghost with the words “I want to believe” under it. I got you covered: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOu9CnoTs9I
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2022 02:45
|
|
|
Christ, I’ve never heard of this. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2022 02:51
|
|
|
Ugh now I gotta watch that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2022 03:59
|
|
|
It didn't get great reviews and was canceled after one season, don't get your expectations up
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2022 05:02
|
|
|
I can get behind cryptids because there's lot of earth humans havent fully ventured in and even more ocean than that. Not that there is an actual big foot out there, most likely some funny bears that happened to be walking up right at the time. I guess im more of a believer of places that have had almost zero human exploration that might still have some lost remnants of some thought to be extinct animals. Like the tasmanian tigers and what not. Ghost/paranormal is all bologna but it sure is fun tho
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2022 07:02
|
|
|
Snowglobe of Doom posted:Harry Houdini also debunked a lot of fake spiritualists and had a huge falling out with Sir Arthur Conan Doyle over it: I started reading James Randi's Flim-Flam! this week and the entire first chapter is about the Cottingley Fairies.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2022 07:59
|
|
|
Snowglobe of Doom posted:It didn't get great reviews and was canceled after one season, don't get your expectations up Hence the "ugh," the trailer made it quite evident it was not good. But I will watch the worst trash if it aligns with my interests, and the turn-of-the-century ghostbusting adventures of Doyle and Houdini aligns with several of my interests.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2022 12:12
|
|
|
Speaking of James Randi, so I was going to recommend the documentary Exposed: Magicians, Psychics and Frauds about him. But then it turns out it was just a renamed version of An Honest Liar. You should watch it anyway.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2022 12:31
|
|
|
The MonsterTalk podcast got me interested enough to finally check out John Keel's Mothman Prophecies, thinking it was a spooky fictionalized story based on his research experiences. Nope, it's apparently an actual serious writeup, and like two chapters in, he's already going on about how bending spoons, telepathically moving stuff, and seeing ghosts are an official Scientifically Recognized PhenomenonTM for a notable portion of the population. Lol, ok buddy 
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2022 21:53
|
|
|
That book goes some places.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2022 22:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 08:40 |
|
|
Captain Hygiene posted:The MonsterTalk podcast got me interested enough to finally check out John Keel's Mothman Prophecies, thinking it was a spooky fictionalized story based on his research experiences. Nope, it's apparently an actual serious writeup, and like two chapters in, he's already going on about how bending spoons, telepathically moving stuff, and seeing ghosts are an official Scientifically Recognized PhenomenonTM for a notable portion of the population. Lol, ok buddy Here's what the Parapsychological Association currently has to say: quote:What is the state-of-the-evidence for psi? Real strange that these phenomena are apparently super real and proven but no one ever successfully claimed Houdini or James Randi's large cash prizes if they could demonstrate them. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2022 22:58
|
|