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That's not always good. Sometimes I really don't want to walk my army all the way over there to go poo poo on some dudes hiding in the woods because they have half the size. Realistic, sure. Tedious? Yes, also that.
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Feb 13, 2022 01:16
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My biggest issue with the RBM AI module is it makes archers engage at absurd ranges. They literally aim up at a 45 degree angle right at the start of a battle and start shooting. It's extremely ineffective and really just wastes ammo unless you micromanage your archers with Hold Fire.
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Feb 13, 2022 04:18
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I wish starting out as a foot archer or infantry was more feasible. I guess that would be a good use of the enlistment mod.
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Feb 13, 2022 04:52
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Godlessdonut posted:My biggest issue with the RBM AI module is it makes archers engage at absurd ranges. They literally aim up at a 45 degree angle right at the start of a battle and start shooting. It's extremely ineffective and really just wastes ammo unless you micromanage your archers with Hold Fire. That's what archers actually did though. Archery was used as footmobile artillery. You didn't generally have them within spitting distance.
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Feb 13, 2022 05:05
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Cup Runneth Over posted:That's what archers actually did though. Archery was used as footmobile artillery. You didn't generally have them within spitting distance. There's debate about it, but the best historical evidence we have suggests that archers typically fired in flat trajectories, well within the maximum potential range of their weapons, in order to maximize their accuracy and effectiveness against armored opponents. Higher angles mean more energy lost to air resistance and less direct angles of impact, both of which impede penetration.
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Feb 13, 2022 05:38
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Voyager I posted:There's debate about it, but the best historical evidence we have suggests that archers typically fired in flat trajectories, well within the maximum potential range of their weapons, in order to maximize their accuracy and effectiveness against armored opponents. Higher angles mean more energy lost to air resistance and less direct angles of impact, both of which impede penetration. Yeah, archers as medieval artillery is very much a 'i played total war and that's how i used them' kind of thing with about as much historical basis. They were skirmishers.
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Feb 13, 2022 11:15
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Voyager I posted:There's debate about it, but the best historical evidence we have suggests that archers typically fired in flat trajectories, well within the maximum potential range of their weapons, in order to maximize their accuracy and effectiveness against armored opponents. Higher angles mean more energy lost to air resistance and less direct angles of impact, both of which impede penetration. Note "armor" here can mean something as basic as heavily padded clothing.
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Feb 13, 2022 11:57
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Arrows are a pain to make and even the heaviest longbow doesn't have an effective range long enough to get more than maybe an arrow or two before cavalry is sitting on top of your rear end. You want that poo poo aimed level to maximize penetration. Also I have to say the best way to quickly test the veracity of anything to do with the military is: Can logistics support it? If not it's a myth. And wasting thousands of arrows by arcing them uselessly is a great way to deplete your stocks while achieving little to nothing. Rynoto fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Feb 13, 2022 |
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Feb 13, 2022 12:38
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With bows it really depends when you're talking about as well. Massed bowmen in the Persian army around 500bc are going to have very different uses & tactics than longbowmen in the 14th century English army. This is a great video showing how good medieval armour was at defeating arrows shot even at short range. Nobody was firing arcing volleys and doing jack poo poo, at least in this period. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...SEx19qgq9r4ESHb
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Feb 13, 2022 14:58
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I have to imagine it also matters what the target looks like. An arcing shot might be worthwhile if the enemy is so densely packed that you'll hit SOMETHING if you fire blindly.
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Feb 13, 2022 15:05
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It was also used as a slowing tactic. Knights in armour that was "arrowproof" would still have to keep their heads looking down so they didn't get one in the eye from an unlucky (or lucky) shot. Has the advantage of making that formation entirely blind to the movements of others. Actually one of the biggest issues I have with this game. I'm wearing cataphract armour. I've got like, 70 armour at this point. Why the gently caress is a sickle/militia arrow to the body still hitting me for so much. dogstile fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Feb 13, 2022 |
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Feb 13, 2022 15:32
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dogstile posted:Actually one of the biggest issues I have with this game. I'm wearing cataphract armour. I've got like, 70 armour at this point. Why the gently caress is a sickle/militia arrow to the body still hitting me for so much. I'm not sure if it's because cutting weapons do too much damage, or armor blocks too little. But the result is it feels like there's no reason to use blunt weapons unless you want to be thematic or get more prisoners. Why bother with armor-piercing blunt damage when your cutting weapon will kill anyone in 1-2 hits?
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Feb 14, 2022 02:20
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Both, i guess? It's kinda nuts, i'd really like them to just revert it to whatever they had in warband where your reward for spending half your kingdoms cash on a suit of armour is that it'd block hits from the peasantry.
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Feb 14, 2022 13:55
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Godlessdonut posted:I'm not sure if it's because cutting weapons do too much damage, or armor blocks too little. But the result is it feels like there's no reason to use blunt weapons unless you want to be thematic or get more prisoners. Why bother with armor-piercing blunt damage when your cutting weapon will kill anyone in 1-2 hits? You really only start to run into heavily armored guys as Cavalry, especially since they are a lot less vulnerable to charges. But the way battles go its also fairly easy to just pin them on a tree and just wail on them, making your weapon choice basically irrelevant.
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Feb 14, 2022 14:26
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yeah armor feels kind of weak a lot of the time, which is weird since there's an entirely new item slot to stack extra armor on top of yourself compared to last game (shoulders). Something is up with the calculation.
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Feb 14, 2022 15:25
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Yeah i ended up having to play the RBM armor module to make it meaningful, but the problem is it comes with a massive nerf to archery of all kinds at lower skills which makes their use tedious.
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Feb 14, 2022 15:25
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Archery is inferior to my 36 harpoons, tbh
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Feb 14, 2022 15:54
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One of the issues with weapons is that smithing both makes you way more money than everything else and gives you access to better weapons, earlier. Unlock a T5 axe or polearm head and it doesn't matter what armour you're wearing, a 150+ cut damage weapon is going to one shot anyone.
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Feb 15, 2022 00:59
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This is the way
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Feb 15, 2022 01:05
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MikeCrotch posted:One of the issues with weapons is that smithing both makes you way more money than everything else and gives you access to better weapons, earlier. Unlock a T5 axe or polearm head and it doesn't matter what armour you're wearing, a 150+ cut damage weapon is going to one shot anyone. Putting the "SHI--" in bushido
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Feb 15, 2022 03:07
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MikeCrotch posted:One of the issues with weapons is that smithing both makes you way more money than everything else and gives you access to better weapons, earlier. Unlock a T5 axe or polearm head and it doesn't matter what armour you're wearing, a 150+ cut damage weapon is going to one shot anyone. Seriously, the swinging polearms do so much goddamn damage.
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Feb 15, 2022 16:51
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Panzeh posted:Yeah i ended up having to play the RBM armor module to make it meaningful, but the problem is it comes with a massive nerf to archery of all kinds at lower skills which makes their use tedious. Yep RBM turns heavy armored knights into proper murder robots, but even it can't stop the juggernaut that is the two handed polearm swing from horseback. I use RBM for every playthrough except archery ones because like you said it makes archery tedious and pretty ineffective which it turns out is not fun to do as a player. It's nice to see polearms be *good* in a game for once though because hey, they were the primary weapon melee of choice for all of human history (until the gun was developed enough to make melee combat obsolete) for a reason GruntyThrst fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Feb 15, 2022 |
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Feb 15, 2022 21:54
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GruntyThrst posted:It's nice to see polearms be *good* in a game for once though because hey, they were the primary weapon melee of choice for all of human history (until the gun was developed enough to make melee combat obsolete) for a reason Well, *spears* were the primary melee weapon, sure. And spears on foot suck absolute dogshit, in vanilla at least. All the worst troop types in the game are the dedicated spearmen (looking at you, Vlandian Pikeman, whose pike is shorter than the Sergeants one)
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Feb 15, 2022 21:59
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Some castle maps are easier to defend than others. Especially when you have 2 onagers and the AI goes in with only a ram.  
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Feb 16, 2022 22:40
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I managed to win a siege defence against 5:1 odds and it came down to a 1v1 duel between my guy and the last enemy (my guy won) poo poo ruled
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Feb 16, 2022 23:12
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MikeCrotch posted:Well, *spears* were the primary melee weapon, sure. And spears on foot suck absolute dogshit, in vanilla at least. All the worst troop types in the game are the dedicated spearmen (looking at you, Vlandian Pikeman, whose pike is shorter than the Sergeants one) Honestly no idea how they could really fix spears being useless in a game without going deep into complexities like only heavily trained horses being able to be forced into even a thin spear line or somehow forcing the AI to both ignore targets and keep absolute formation while stabbing forwards and also being able to deal with those that do pierce the shell.
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Feb 16, 2022 23:22
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Let spears swing from side to side and do bludgeoning damage, maybe?
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Feb 17, 2022 03:41
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Rynoto posted:Honestly no idea how they could really fix spears being useless in a game without going deep into complexities like only heavily trained horses being able to be forced into even a thin spear line or somehow forcing the AI to both ignore targets and keep absolute formation while stabbing forwards and also being able to deal with those that do pierce the shell. Isn't the core spear problem being that you just mash downblock and they're useless? Hence the arena spearfight being chest bumping while stabbing each other for 2 damage, or the classic mount and blade spinstab moves, or whatever. Why should a spear thrust be blockable with a shortsword or anything short of a shield?
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Feb 17, 2022 04:10
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Spears should also be thrustable at the same speed that you can swing a sword, so that their reach can actually be used. I suspect the game just looks at their length and then decides that since they're so long they must be really slow, and so they're treated like you're trying to thrust with a 10 foot long dark souls megasword instead of a particularly strong stick.
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Feb 17, 2022 04:23
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dogstile posted:Let spears swing from side to side and do bludgeoning damage, maybe? Isn't that how they worked in the original M&B, or am I remembering wrong?
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Feb 17, 2022 06:57
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Shear Modulus posted:Spears should also be thrustable at the same speed that you can swing a sword, so that their reach can actually be used. I suspect the game just looks at their length and then decides that since they're so long they must be really slow, and so they're treated like you're trying to thrust with a 10 foot long dark souls megasword instead of a particularly strong stick. yeah their incredibly slow thrusting speed seems like the main problem to me
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Feb 17, 2022 07:10
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litany of gulps posted:Isn't the core spear problem being that you just mash downblock and they're useless? Hence the arena spearfight being chest bumping while stabbing each other for 2 damage, or the classic mount and blade spinstab moves, or whatever. Why should a spear thrust be blockable with a shortsword or anything short of a shield? It's deeper than that, people expect that their Vlandian Pikemen in braced stance would be the appropriate hard counter to a cavalry charge, but nope horsey boys cut through spear infantry like cavalry was the hard counter to spear walls.
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Feb 17, 2022 07:31
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Godlessdonut posted:Some castle maps are easier to defend than others. Especially when you have 2 onagers and the AI goes in with only a ram. Which castle was this? Sounds like it would make a good custom battle.
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Feb 17, 2022 08:02
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Been a while since I played M&B, but I remember having tons of fun with an army that leaned heavily towards horse archers. It only struggled when we had to dismount for sieges. Is there a counter to horse archers in Bannerlord, or some other reason to rely less heavily on them?
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Feb 17, 2022 08:12
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Caufman posted:Been a while since I played M&B, but I remember having tons of fun with an army that leaned heavily towards horse archers. It only struggled when we had to dismount for sieges. Is there a counter to horse archers in Bannerlord, or some other reason to rely less heavily on them? No, in fact they're apparently more OP in Bannerlord than ever. The bow reigns supreme like never before.
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Feb 17, 2022 08:30
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Wafflecopper posted:yeah their incredibly slow thrusting speed seems like the main problem to me just spitballing here, and the length might cause balance / center of gravity issues, but it would be cool if you could tap X to choke up on a spear and wield it overhand
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Feb 17, 2022 09:41
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You really should be able to hit people with either end of the spear. Yes it's got a pointy end but it's also a big stick and you can hit people with either end of the stick, you aren't reduced to trying to stab a guy while holding the stabby bit as far away from you as possible.
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Feb 17, 2022 10:15
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Cup Runneth Over posted:No, in fact they're apparently more OP in Bannerlord than ever. The bow reigns supreme like never before. Does the AI ever run out of arrows? I guess in theory you could run them out of ammo and then square up, but its a lot of effort. dogstile fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Feb 17, 2022 |
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Feb 17, 2022 10:41
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dogstile posted:Does the AI ever run out of arrows? I guess in theory you could run them out of ammo and then square up, but its a lot of effort. Yes, but most of the good horse archer units are carrying two quivers of ammo. Horse archers have improved AI in bannerlord and benefit from having a fairly good range on their shots compared to IRL along with horses that can go fast forever without really tiring out. But yes, if you just want to chillax in the battles, go do your recruiting in the khuzait lands and enjoy not having to worry too much.
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Feb 17, 2022 12:50
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dogstile posted:Does the AI ever run out of arrows? I guess in theory you could run them out of ammo and then square up, but its a lot of effort. Yes, this is one of the reasons the Imperial archer tree is weak because they only have 1 quiver, unlike other bow troops who have 2. Crossbow troops usually have 1 bag of bolts also so its good to micromanage when they can fire, but the bolts do a lot of damage so they are often better for Vlandians/Sturgians/Imperials who don't have better options. Also crossbowmen tend to be better in hand to hand than other bowmen with the exception of Fians. Worth noting that defenders in a siege do have infinite ammo though.
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Feb 17, 2022 13:27
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