Clipperton posted:

No worries - although now I'm wondering if any movie's had a pedo trifecta

MacheteZombie posted:

We wouldn't want the flash to show up too soon though

Grendels Dad posted:

I hope whoever has that weird hateboner for Snyder over at WB gets their poo poo pushed in by reality.

2house2fly posted:

That'd be amusing, considering a Batman movie failing to make all the money in the world is why they showed Snyder the door in the first place

Pirate Jet posted:

I still insist that BvS was only a "flop" due to a series of moving goalposts and nobody serious actually expected it to break a billion before it came out.

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I do wonder if they were convinced that The Batman would massively outsell any Snyder movies for some reason and its failure to make literally all the money in the world is making the suits rethink things.

pospysyl posted:

The main reason I get bummed out about BvS is that the end of that movie proves Luthor right. Superman is all good, but he isn't all powerful: he has to die. It's a dramatization of Jesus in Jerusalem. He's welcomed as a hero, but the crowd turns against him and sentences him to death unjustly. Justice League, then, fulfills the Good Friday promise, bringing Superman back. What distinguishes this from a rote retelling of the biblical resurrection is that restoring Superman is an act of collective will, not divine (in fact, it's anti-divine). It goes to your argument: no individual can be all good and all powerful, but maybe together we could be. The follow-ups to Justice League probably would have challenged this conclusion, but I imagine they would have had a happy ending.

McSpanky posted:

Snyder made the, pardon the pun, critical 'mistake' of engaging with the character of Superman critically as an entity within the world, affected and affecting it by his existence and his choices, instead of as a mere delivery vehicle for feel-good audience thrills and reassurance. Snyder's Superman is no different than any other vision, inherently good and burdened not with the question of whether to help people, but how best to help people -- the key difference being that he actually has to deal with the consequences of that awesome responsibility instead of getting a free-pass smile and handwave at the camera as the music swells and everyone is assured that everything will be alright.
…

KVeezy3 posted:

The dilemma Luthor foregrounds in citing ‘The Problem of Evil’ gets to the preeminent crisis of the superhero genre. When one dons a mask/cape, the premise is that they leave behind their mere individuality that is constrained to society’s laws/social mores, in order to embody ‘Justice’ or whatever — in other words, a claim to universality (Which is why even when their ‘real’ identity is known, the show must go on).

As a man, I’m flesh and blood. I can be ignored. I can be destroyed. But as a symbol — as a symbol, I can be incorruptible. I can be everlasting.
- Batman, Batman Begins

Of course, this premise only works on an abstract level, as concrete action generates the content that fills the empty form and reveals the limits of their proposed universality; i.e. their ‘tribe’ or their political dimension as such. This is what Lex is referring to when he calls Superman a fraud, a “False God’, because Superman’s relationship to and desire to help humanity will invariably radicalize him — this is demonstrated in the ‘Day of the Dead’ scene where Superman rescues a worker from a burning building, and is troubled when reached out to by the people of Juarez, a city ravaged by decades of ruthless global exploitation.

Snyder’s project includes making explicit criticisms of what is usually brushed over in the Batman fantasy: this includes Batman’s targeted violence of the poor, that it’s hosed up that he basically works with the cops, and despite meaning extremely well, and the self-awareness to acknowledge that his extreme efforts over multiple decades hasn’t resulted in change.

There was a time above, a time before. There were perfect things, diamond absolutes. But things fall… things on earth. And what falls, is fallen. In the dream, it took me to the light. A beautiful lie.
- Batman, BvS

Although Superheroes ostensibly stand for big ideas like truth and justice, the stories’ worlds are often divorced of any sense of history, as they practically only exist to lionize the protagonists’ private experiences and psychological struggles. Thus fans are bewildered when Snyder makes the basic critique that ‘meaning well’ does not qualify as ethical, such that they draw a direct causal line between catastrophic events and Superman’s insufficient care levels.

This division is rendered explicit in the prequel to the Superman trilogy: Wonder Woman 1 (Story credit by Snyder). The statement, “Superheroes are the modern incarnation of Greek mythology”, is frequently made to lend a sense of gravitas to what is perceived as a genre for (man)children, but here it’s taken a bit more seriously.

Abstract concepts such as good/evil/love/etc. actualize as supernatural beings, and dictate the fates of mere mortals; Wonder Woman 1 utilizes that as the ‘history’ Diana is taught. Believing that Ares is the architect of the Great War, her confrontation with him brings her face to face with the truth of her divine lineage, including its relative powerlessness in the world — all at the cost of eternal banishment from Paradise. In parallel, the film’s setting evokes the Enlightenment’s utopian dream of human reason’s inevitable mastery of the universe shattered by the world-historical senseless violence of World War I.

All that is to say — it's fruitful to examine Luthor’s precise position as the enunciator of that quote, which is one drawing from the historical trauma of East Germany and life as a U.S. super capitalist. The collapse of the GDR signaled capitalism’s total victory such that all other possibilities are buried in the past where they belong. Superman, whose internationalism draws suspicion from the ruling class and their media apparatuses, evokes deep cynicism from Luthor. He muses throughout the film about the power/knowledge dynamic in a nigh Foucauldian sense, and as such expresses disdain towards an alien figure external to the power-knowledge network having the ability to alter it.

In ZSJL, Snyder draws up a mythical past where international solidarity combats brutal imperialism. In the present day, It’s the outsiders/outcasts who have the perspective to recognize the need for the rebuilding of that broken pact.

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I do wonder if they were convinced that The Batman would massively outsell any Snyder movies for some reason and its failure to make literally all the money in the world is making the suits rethink things.

Pirate Jet posted:

I still insist that BvS was only a "flop" due to a series of moving goalposts and nobody serious actually expected it to break a billion before it came out.

Mr. Apollo posted:

A common argument I still hear from people is that a movie with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman in it should have "easily" been the highest grossing movie of all time.

The Cameo posted:

I think it’s less that and more that once again a new group of people are looking over things and going “the gently caress is wrong with you people”. ZSJL exists because AT&T’s people came in and looked over things, looked at the numbers, saw that both Wonder Woman and Aquaman were mega-successful off the back of BvS while continuing to carry over the Gods Among Us tone and presentation, and said “so you torpedoed this entire thing because people on Twitter yelled at you?”

And now AT&T is selling the whole WarnerMedia company to Discovery Inc., and they’re coming in to look over stuff and going “in a year where every big movie you put out was on your streaming service, none of them came anywhere close to being as big as the Snyder Justice League, and you’re definitively killing off that line of movies with this Flash movie? Do you hate money?”

KVeezy3 posted:

...
Snyder’s project includes making explicit criticisms of what is usually brushed over in the Batman fantasy: this includes Batman’s targeted violence of the poor, that it’s hosed up that he basically works with the cops, and despite meaning extremely well, and the self-awareness to acknowledge that his extreme efforts over multiple decades hasn’t resulted in change.

There was a time above, a time before. There were perfect things, diamond absolutes. But things fall… things on earth. And what falls, is fallen. In the dream, it took me to the light. A beautiful lie.
- Batman, BvS

Although Superheroes ostensibly stand for big ideas like truth and justice, the stories’ worlds are often divorced of any sense of history, as they practically only exist to lionize the protagonists’ private experiences and psychological struggles. Thus fans are bewildered when Snyder makes the basic critique that ‘meaning well’ does not qualify as ethical, such that they draw a direct causal line between catastrophic events and Superman’s insufficient care levels.

....

Ghosthotel posted:

Lots of reasons to hate Jared Leto but always lol'd at people making fun of his vest covered in cop badges as "edgy" when the joker is like THE edgelord of DC comics. (and tbh the vest owned lol)

Ghosthotel posted:

Lots of reasons to hate Jared Leto but always lol'd at people making fun of his vest covered in cop badges as "edgy" when the joker is like THE edgelord of DC comics. (and tbh the vest owned lol)

Bogus Adventure posted:

I know it's inexcusable that it took me until TYOOL 2022 to see Sucker Punch, but I finally did. It's good. Zack Snyder is good. gently caress all the haters.

bushisms.txt posted:

It's one of his best, so prescient still.

Jamie Chung posted:

[The theatrical cut] is PG-13, but it feels like such an R-rated movie. And I think that’s one of the reasons why they altered the story. It’s been so long, but there would’ve been a lot more detail. Each scene would’ve been extended by 10 minutes. We shot the hell out of that movie, and it was so fun. My character was the pilot, but I do know that the fighting sequences were much longer. Gosh, it felt like we trained so long for them. That whole experience in itself was six months, so there’s got to be more out there.

Bogus Adventure posted:

It's a really good trailer for a game with a really good story pitch. Full disclosure, I am a sucker who played and subbed to it for many years.

FilthyImp posted:

It's too bad that it's fallen aside so badly. I feel like a WOW/FF style "here's a streamlined version of the first 3 expansion and story" would be fun.

It also seems like DC/WB bigwigs were really, really scared that the MMORPG would crash and burn and take a bunch of goodwill along with it, or be constrained by/leak plot points. When it first released the Sinestro Corps war was big in comics and the reaction to any tie-ins was basically "nope".

Horizon Burning posted:

https://twitter.com/moviedetail/status/1381092928987262978?lang=en

checkplease posted:

Horizon Burning posted:

Roth posted:

Updated the thread OP to not be this weird salt post anymore

Roth posted:

Updated the thread OP to not be this weird salt post anymore

Roth posted:

Updated the thread OP to not be this weird salt post anymore