Intel: lol

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Intel: lol

Hasturtium: May 19, 2020; And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

Intel still comes across as scattered and reactive when it pulls poo poo like this and I�m glad they�re getting some flak for it. Is there any kind of decent write up on the differences between that earlier subset of the spec and what�s made it to Rocket Lake before being snuffed out piecemeal with Alder?

# ? Mar 15, 2022 13:13

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 19:23

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

Anand has some of that

It appears to be the whole sapphire vector set, optimized and ready for primetime :bahgawd:

# ? Mar 15, 2022 14:40

repiv: Aug 13, 2009

My understanding was that Alder Lakes big cores are literally the same cores used in Sapphire Rapids, and that's why Alder Lake ended up with vestigial AVX512 support

I guess it was cheaper to waste die space on AL than to roll a separate core design without AVX512

# ? Mar 15, 2022 15:51

Boat Stuck: Apr 20, 2021; I tried to sneak through the canal, man! Can't make it, can't make it, the ship's stuck! Outta my way son! BOAT STUCK! BOAT STUCK!

Is it normal for Alder Lake to run, like, really hot?

My mildly OC'ed, undervolted 12700k is pulling around 180W under load and running around 80 C with spikes to the high 80s on my Asetek 280mm AIO. Does that sound around right, or should I re-paste?

# ? Mar 15, 2022 20:17

Hasturtium: May 19, 2020; And that year, for his birthday, he got six pink ping pong balls in a little pink backpack.

Boat Stuck posted:

Is it normal for Alder Lake to run, like, really hot?

My mildly OC'ed, undervolted 12700k is pulling around 180W under load and running around 80 C with spikes to the high 80s on my Asetek 280mm AIO. Does that sound around right, or should I re-paste?

I think the 180W is probably a bigger contributing factor to heat than the 280mm rad, but I�m also managing temps in the mid-60s on a stock 7940x with a 240mm AIO, so something is amiss. Definitely start with a repaste, then see if you need to go UEFI spelunking to lower the power target.

# ? Mar 15, 2022 20:46

VorpalFish: Mar 22, 2007; reasonably awesome^tm

Boat Stuck posted:

Is it normal for Alder Lake to run, like, really hot?

My mildly OC'ed, undervolted 12700k is pulling around 180W under load and running around 80 C with spikes to the high 80s on my Asetek 280mm AIO. Does that sound around right, or should I re-paste?

180w is a fuckload of power for a CPU.

80s is not exactly dangerous though.

# ? Mar 15, 2022 21:45

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

I�m guessing you don�t have a water temp for the CLC but can you at least tell if the radiator is heating up?

Considering the CPU is running 180W and stable below tjmax it is probably transferring heat fine but the 180W could be wrong I suppose.

I wouldn�t worry about 80s in general, that�s typical air cooling numbers so the cpu is fine with that.

# ? Mar 15, 2022 21:47

Shipon: Nov 7, 2005

Boat Stuck posted:

Is it normal for Alder Lake to run, like, really hot?

My mildly OC'ed, undervolted 12700k is pulling around 180W under load and running around 80 C with spikes to the high 80s on my Asetek 280mm AIO. Does that sound around right, or should I re-paste?

i have about those same temps for the same power output on a 12900k with a 360mm CLC rad (so probably ~15% more cooling power than the 280mm considering the difference between 140/120mm fans). It's a small die and puts out a lot of heat, plus there's the whole kerfluffle with questionable mounting pressure on many boards.

# ? Mar 16, 2022 03:22

Dr. Video Games 0031: Jul 17, 2004

180W is normal for the 12700K. So is 80C with a 280mm AIO. I think some goons here forgot how power hungry the 12700K and 12900K are because nothing about that experience seems unusual, especially for an OCed chip.

Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Mar 16, 2022

# ? Mar 16, 2022 07:20

Boat Stuck: Apr 20, 2021; I tried to sneak through the canal, man! Can't make it, can't make it, the ship's stuck! Outta my way son! BOAT STUCK! BOAT STUCK!

Got it, thanks everyone. I just wanted a sanity check to make sure that ~80-85 C while stress testing on a Alder Lake with a 180W TDP using a 280mm AIO is about right.

With that, and it passing Aida64's stress test overnight, I think I finally have this 12700k dialed in.

I have the best 2 cores set to turbo at 51x, the remaining 6 at 50x, e-cores at 40x, ring at 42x, V/F curve set to -0.060v at 48x and -0.090v at 50x+, memory at DDR4-3500 16-18-18-38 gear 1 1.4v, VCCSA at 1.2v. Only took 3 weeks, lol.

# ? Mar 16, 2022 21:24

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

There's also a big difference between stress testing and basically any other workload; they're good for proving that your system is stable (if you're overclocking) or for saying Number Bigger, but beyond that they have very little to do with real-world use-cases.

# ? Mar 16, 2022 23:30

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
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What kind of life expectancy does RAM have? It seems like a lot of my Nehalem/Westmere systems have had DDR3 sticks dying en-masse over the last few years. My thinkpad had a couple DIMMs die, and my HP Z400 workstation has killed like five of its six sticks or something

# ? Mar 17, 2022 05:25

Ihmemies: Oct 6, 2012

I have a 150W default? Power limit with 12700K. While exporting photos with Lightroom (100% cpu usage) I get 65C temps. Kryonaut paste, nh-d15. Games run cooler.

# ? Mar 17, 2022 07:07

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
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video encoding is usually one of the rougher ones for "real-world" use imo. try a ffmpeg transcode of a 1080p video (game capture, movie, etc) with x264 or x265 CRF mode at veryslow or placebo quality. x265 in particular is very amenable to AVX acceleration, it even benefits from AVX-512. But even x264 is very very intensive on AVX2 performance in the higher motion-search quality presets.

note that what gets distributed in handbrake/etc can be very very out of date, and ffmpeg distributes some very convenient statically-linked binaries where it's 60mb but it's got everything compiled in to just run, which is nice for getting started, you can just dump it in a directory and play with a file. the commands kinda suck but simple cases are easy. You can also probably find a way to get Handbrake to tell you what it's doing - it'll probably be in the log file. It's just building a ffmpeg string most likely.

code:

//  -no resolution change, input == output. 
//  -maybe try a 1080p file of a couple minutes length
//  -preset placebo for even more motion search
//  -can output mp4 by changing file extension	
ffmpeg -i "myfile.mp4" -c:v libx264 -preset veryslow -crf 27  -map 0:0 -c:a copy -map 0:1 "x264-veryslow-crf27.mkv" ;

//x265
ffmpeg -i "myfile.mp4" -c:v libx265 -preset veryslow -crf 31  -map 0:0 -c:a copy -map 0:1 "x265-veryslow-crf31.mkv" ;

static build: https://github.com/BtbN/FFmpeg-Builds/releases/download/latest/ffmpeg-master-latest-win64-gpl.zip (you just need the bin/ffmpeg.exe file)

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Mar 17, 2022

# ? Mar 17, 2022 07:43

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

Paul MaudDib posted:

What kind of life expectancy does RAM have? It seems like a lot of my Nehalem/Westmere systems have had DDR3 sticks dying en-masse over the last few years. My thinkpad had a couple DIMMs die, and my HP Z400 workstation has killed like five of its six sticks or something

I don't know of any studies that can answer this, but if you're seeing a high failure rate of widely sourced RAM from this era, it's not impossible.
On the other hand, if it's only specific machine doing the memory-killing, I think it's safe to say that there's something else going on.

Ihmemies posted:

I have a 150W default? Power limit with 12700K. While exporting photos with Lightroom (100% cpu usage) I get 65C temps. Kryonaut paste, nh-d15. Games run cooler.

Yeah, that's about what I'd expect.
Although "100% CPU usage" on Windows isn't really very reliable, because it gives no indication of what part of the EUs (ie. where the INT units, vector units, floating-point units, AES units, and so on and so forth) see any use - and some, like the AVX units, use a lot more power than others.

Paul MaudDib posted:

video encoding is usually one of the rougher ones for "real-world" use imo. try a ffmpeg transcode of a 1080p video (game capture, movie, etc) with x264 or x265 CRF mode at veryslow or placebo quality. x265 in particular is very amenable to AVX acceleration, it even benefits from AVX-512. But even x264 is very very intensive on AVX2 performance in the higher motion-search quality presets.

note that what gets distributed in handbrake/etc can be very very out of date, and ffmpeg distributes some very convenient statically-linked binaries where it's 60mb but it's got everything compiled in to just run, which is nice for getting started, you can just dump it in a directory and play with a file. the commands kinda suck but simple cases are easy. You can also probably find a way to get Handbrake to tell you what it's doing - it'll probably be in the log file. It's just building a ffmpeg string most likely.

Well, video encoding with ffmpeg in the slow modes is also the only way to make full use of threading, if memory serves - so that alone is gonna mean a not-insignificant rise in temperature compared to using a single thread of AVX.
It's also something only a very small (but sometimes very vocal) minority of people engage in.

And it's entirely unsurprising that handbrake et al bundle older versions, because that's the nature of a software ecosystem that doesn't have a central distribution and makes liberal use of libraries instead of static binaries.

# ? Mar 17, 2022 12:28

BurritoJustice: Oct 9, 2012

Someone on the Intel subreddit got an early 12900KS. Good news, it is running at 5.3 all core @ 1.1v. Bad news, it looks like AVX-512 is fully hardware disabled and can't be toggled on even with E-cores disabled

# ? Mar 17, 2022 12:57

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

Paul MaudDib posted:

What kind of life expectancy does RAM have? It seems like a lot of my Nehalem/Westmere systems have had DDR3 sticks dying en-masse over the last few years. My thinkpad had a couple DIMMs die, and my HP Z400 workstation has killed like five of its six sticks or something

Functionally unlimited unless you have defect ram or a thermal or power supply flaw.

Test your wall supply imo

# ? Mar 17, 2022 13:02

mrk: Jan 14, 2004; what the f/2.8 is going on here!

BurritoJustice posted:

Someone on the Intel subreddit got an early 12900KS. Good news, it is running at 5.3 all core @ 1.1v. Bad news, it looks like AVX-512 is fully hardware disabled and can't be toggled on even with E-cores disabled

How many normal users actually use AVX512 instructions in what they do though? Those that specifically work around that sort of thing have specific builds and I hazard to say that an ADL build won't be a part f those builds. So short of benchmark scores, it's generally a non issue for the ,asses?

# ? Mar 17, 2022 15:05

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

The thing that Alder Lake added, and that Sapphire Rapids will now be the only way to get unless you bought one of the first released CPUs, to AVX512 is that you can now do arithmetic on half-precision floating points with single instructions.

# ? Mar 17, 2022 19:10

~Coxy: Dec 9, 2003; R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

Can anyone explain the difference between the i5-1240P and the 1250P? They seem to have the same core arrangement and clock speeds.
Not to mention how bizarre it is that there's also a 1260P and a 1270P both with extremely minor differences in P and E clocks.

# ? Mar 21, 2022 03:59

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
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~Coxy posted:

Can anyone explain the difference between the i5-1240P and the 1250P? They seem to have the same core arrangement and clock speeds.
Not to mention how bizarre it is that there's also a 1260P and a 1270P both with extremely minor differences in P and E clocks.

12500 gets a bigger iGPU - it�s 32 EU rather than 24. That doesn�t mean it�s 33% faster of course, since things are often bottlenecked by memory bandwidth. Probably like 10-15% or maybe 20% faster. It also gets two Media Engines which means twice the encode/decode performance, if you were (say) doing a videoconferencing server or Plex server doing transcodes.

(Note that all of these are much much slower than AMD APUs and Intel mobile laptops. Intel has some speedy iGPUs in laptops (on paper, drivers are the bugbear there) but their desktop iGPUs are much much smaller and lower-performing. It�s 33% more of a pretty slow GPU, maybe like 750 Ti or 960 performance. So I don�t really think 33% more satisfies anyone who wasn�t satisfied before� it�s still a token video output. Both of them have a pretty great video decoder and media block - it�s only hdmi 2.1 4k60 but it does do HDR, AV1, HDMI Org VRR, etc. Quality for QuickSync is supposedly better than AMD but not quite as good as Turing-gen NVENC.)

It also gets an inconsequentially higher single-core turbo table, and can use ECC RAM in a motherboard with the workstation chipset (which so far don�t seem to exist?).

In short I�d basically think of it as being a home-server kinda SKU given the ECC and the media engines. I don�t think it�s really got anything for average home-users or even most prosumers to care about, unless you want ECC.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Mar 21, 2022

# ? Mar 21, 2022 04:30

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
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Potato Salad posted:

Functionally unlimited unless you have defect ram or a thermal or power supply flaw.

Test your wall supply imo

So, two systems. One is my Thinkpad W510, I�ve had two of the 4 dimms I installed die in 6 years, one after a couple years and another a couple years later. Laptop power supply, always OEM units. I did try to use lovely aftermarket packs for a while and I suppose it�s possible those weren�t the nicest, but it generally should have been OK.I don�t feel like it�s been super excessive but it�s been a trickle of dead sticks every now and then. Laptops are a pretty harsh operating environment too.

The other one was a hand-me-down HP Z400 workstation and the power supply in that one has always been iffy actually. It seems like more of them are dying over the last couple years which also coincides with the time I upgraded the cpu to a X5650. Which could be the CPU stressing the PSU more as well I suppose. But it�s murdered I think 5 sticks over the years. I know the PSU sucks (it absolutely would not run an R9 280 despite that being inside the rating) but HP did everything possible to make that fucker nonstandard. The 24-pin connector is nonstandard and you need an adapter to use a normal PSU as a replacement, and I think when I went to look at it the PSU mounting or size was also nonstandard. So is the motherboard mount pattern iirc.

Maybe I should just migrate my stuff off that system and retire it then, lol :ohdear:

# ? Mar 21, 2022 05:01

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

Intel W680 looks pretty interesting as a workstation chipset, especially since the entire range of Alder Lake CPUs can do ECC.

# ? Mar 21, 2022 07:36

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:

Intel W680 looks pretty interesting as a workstation chipset, especially since the entire range of Alder Lake CPUs can do ECC.

Is that true? It only shows in the 12500 and above.

# ? Mar 21, 2022 08:01

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

Paul MaudDib posted:

Is that true? It only shows in the 12500 and above.

You're right, it's all of Alder Lake-S which doesn't include the -K series processors.

# ? Mar 21, 2022 08:15

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

Paul MaudDib posted:

The 24-pin connector is nonstandard and you need an adapter to use a normal PSU as a replacement, and I think when I went to look at it the PSU mounting or size was also nonstandard. So is the motherboard mount pattern iirc.

If I had a gun to my head and had to give my wildest guess, one of the mobo power pins anticipating 3.3v is receiving 5v, and power protection / fine conditioning features are only mostly solving the problem

obviously it's impossible to know what the cause of all that murder is

# ? Mar 21, 2022 10:07

BurritoJustice: Oct 9, 2012

~Coxy posted:

Can anyone explain the difference between the i5-1240P and the 1250P? They seem to have the same core arrangement and clock speeds.
Not to mention how bizarre it is that there's also a 1260P and a 1270P both with extremely minor differences in P and E clocks.

vPro is the difference. Intel mobile chips always have models with slightly shifted names that are the vPro enabled equivalent of another model. The 1250p is a 1240p with the full vPro Enterprise set (plus 0.1ghz on the iGPU for whatever reason), same goes for the 1270p and 1260p.

Last gen it was the case with the 1135G7/1145G7, 11900H/11950H etc.

They often add 0.1GHz or so to one of the boost numbers, but the real diff is vPro and all the matching certifications.

# ? Mar 21, 2022 14:38

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

Not gonna lie, vPro or any kind of OOB BMC is a pretty loving fantastic feature that it's hard to live without once you have it.

# ? Mar 21, 2022 15:58

FuturePastNow: May 19, 2014

I was running a Z400 with a w3690 and a GTX 1070 on its stock 475W power supply and it was fine. It never had a problem, but when I retired that machine a couple years ago I took a close look in it and there were several leaking capacitors on the motherboard

# ? Mar 21, 2022 16:28

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:

You're right, it's all of Alder Lake-S which doesn't include the -K series processors.

-K processors are part of Alder Lake-S. ADL-S refers to anything that shares that series of client desktop dies.

Also the K skus have ECC now too. 12600K for example.

However, the 12400 and below do not have ECC, it�s not all alder lake skus. I did see an article to that effect but if it�s the case it�s not documented in Ark, it may be a misinterpretation of �consumer chips support ECC� and not �every chip supports ECC�.

(and to be clear it�s always been spotty, pentiums/celerons and i3s usually have for the last 5 years or so, but not with 10th/11th gen iirc, and the higher skus that might compete with xeons didn�t. Now it�s flipped and high end core gets it and cheaper ones don�t.)

So unless ark is wrong, this is something that distinguishes 12500 and 12400. It also looks like the same applies to Alder-P, the 1240P is branded as a Core and the 1250P is branded Mobile Xeon.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/134586/intel-core-i512400-processor-18m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz.html

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/96144/intel-core-i512500-processor-18m-cache-up-to-4-60-ghz.html

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/134589/intel-core-i512600k-processor-20m-cache-up-to-4-90-ghz.html

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/132221/intel-core-i51240p-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz/specifications.html

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/199340/intel-xeon-w1250p-processor-12m-cache-4-10-ghz.html

# ? Mar 21, 2022 21:40

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

I wonder what the power delivery on W680 boards will be like - ECC for workstation + overclocking available if the system ever starts to seem sluggish seems like a very attractive position.

# ? Mar 21, 2022 21:53

BurritoJustice: Oct 9, 2012

The W-1250P is a comet lake xeon (6c/12t), different to the i5-1250P which is a business focused but consumer chip (4C+8c/16t).

It's unlike Intel to double up on names like this, so it's understandable confusion.

It's strange, the vPro versions of mobile CPUs have the same tray price. There must be some additional validation fees otherwise we would never see the 1165g7 in favour of the 1185g7, but it's the opposite in reality.

Are there any good guides on how to use vPro for remote management? I'd love to be able to control UEFI settings and everything remotely. All I've used it for is to remote secure erase a laptop I returned.

# ? Mar 21, 2022 22:15

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

No real guides to recommend, but you're gonna need to get familiar with MeshCommander.

EDIT: Looks like Chapter 21 of Active Platform Management Demystified is a QuickStart guide.

# ? Mar 21, 2022 22:54

Shrimp or Shrimps: Feb 14, 2012

BurritoJustice posted:

Someone on the Intel subreddit got an early 12900KS. Good news, it is running at 5.3 all core @ 1.1v. Bad news, it looks like AVX-512 is fully hardware disabled and can't be toggled on even with E-cores disabled

Is that just binning or has something changed? 1.1v for 5.3 all p-core seems crazy low and I don't think I've come across posts where people have managed to overclock their 12900k's to that level at that voltage. If it was just binning you'd suppose there must be quite a lot of silicon lottery winners out there that it'd come up more frequently.

Shrimp or Shrimps fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Mar 22, 2022

# ? Mar 22, 2022 00:28

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:

Is that just binning or has something changed? 1.1v for 5.3 all p-core seems crazy low and I don't think I've come across posts where people have managed to overclock their 12900k's to that level at that voltage. If it was just binning you'd suppose there must be quite a lot of silicon lottery winners out there that it'd come up more frequently.

It�s the same as 9900KS, Intel is skimming off the golden samples and selling them as their own sku. You won�t see anything close on an �average� 12900K and even a good sample won�t do what an average 12900KS will.

That said you�re not wrong that people are observing some pretty drastic variability in quality across their 12900K. It�s possible it�s the result of an improvement in process and more people will see the higher results; it�s also possible the newer chips are worse on average because Intel started skimming KS sample chips off.

# ? Mar 22, 2022 00:36

BurritoJustice: Oct 9, 2012

Shrimp or Shrimps posted:

Is that just binning or has something changed? 1.1v for 5.3 all p-core seems crazy low and I don't think I've come across posts where people have managed to overclock their 12900k's to that level at that voltage. If it was just binning you'd suppose there must be quite a lot of silicon lottery winners out there that it'd come up more frequently.

Asus motherboards have some voodoo function that reads the VID table and estimates the quality of the silicon. 80-90 is average, 101~ ish and you're looking at more than double retail. I saw a 12900KS sample that hit 150 SP.

They're just selecting bonkers chips.

# ? Mar 22, 2022 07:17

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

So what's up with the 12th gen U series laptops? I thought they were supposed to be out in March but there are no signs it seems. TBH I'm glad if theyr'e delayed because it'll make me feel better about just getting my 11th gen X1 but still.

# ? Mar 23, 2022 09:50