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Terrible Opinions posted:Yeah it was only good if your DM was deliberately giving you no loot, which surprise surprise hurt martials more than casters. I mean the idea that not every character is a walking wizards armoire seems reasonable, but it needs campaign-specific balancing.
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May 9, 2022 18:27
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It seems reasonable but that isn't the game 3.5 D&D is designed to be. There is an assumption in the numbers that you will get the standard weapon/armor/saving throw/ability score items at least.
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May 9, 2022 18:33
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:I started gaming with some of this group in 1978 and the newest members (including DMs) joined in 2019. That's cool. So what is it about 2005-era design that really hits with your group? I'm really curious to know what those games do better than any before or since for you. They were before my time - I didn't get into the hobby until 4e and not into non-D&Ds until a few years after that.
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May 9, 2022 19:31
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:I must be in gamer groups from another reality than the ones that post here. I've tried running FATE-based and PbTA as well as 4e and 5e, but gotten no traction. Arcana Evolved, Weapons of the Gods, d20 7th Sea, Blue Planet, and even Kuro and Earthdawn have been a lot more popular. I'm pretty sure people here like Weapon of the Gods? D20 7th Sea is kind of trash but it's more unremarkable trash than something people hate. People like the concept of Blue Planet even if it's one of those games where it's not super clear how you keep it game-able. Earthdawn is just prequel Shadowrun, and I don't recall anyone caring much about either way about it or Kuro.
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May 9, 2022 19:44
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Yea, Weapons of the Gods is a big surprise on that list. It's a Jenna Moran game with very unusual mechanics. Did they ever try Nobilis/Glitch etc?
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May 9, 2022 19:59
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I never got to play Weapons of the Gods but I thought it was pretty cool when I read it. IIRC the basic "Strike" stat that governed accuracy/defense was too strong or easy to get or something in the corebook, but supplements tuned it down not by changing the rules per se but adding fairly common effects that could flatten/even out/negate it in various contests.
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May 9, 2022 20:30
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hyphz posted:Yea, Weapons of the Gods is a big surprise on that list. It's a Jenna Moran game with very unusual mechanics. Did they ever try Nobilis/Glitch etc? Nobilis was a huge fail so I didn't even try to bring up Glitch. All the players like actual crunch, and the dice roll system in WotG apparently scratched that itch. I guess what the players like is less collab and more following the DM/GMs story. WotG they liked because of the Lore Sheets being in the rules and still allowing them to build themselves into the world. It seems that some players want to have more of the story told to them as the results of their actions, rather than telling it themselves.
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May 9, 2022 20:40
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As seen on r/dndnext: Martials should have spell-like abilities like MMOsquote:Recently I've been playing Lost ark and it got me thinking about how differently martial classes are portrayed in D&D than in many other games. 
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May 9, 2022 22:47
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Absurd Alhazred posted:As seen on r/dndnext: Martials should have spell-like abilities like MMOs Yeah, saw that and sent it to a friend immediately. 4e was your shepherd and you rejected him, chief.
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May 9, 2022 22:54
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SkyeAuroline posted:Yeah, saw that and sent it to a friend immediately. 4e was your shepherd and you rejected him, chief. The thing about something being ahead of its time is that eventually it can be of its time.
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May 9, 2022 22:56
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SkyeAuroline posted:Yeah, saw that and sent it to a friend immediately. 4e was your shepherd and you rejected him, chief. in fairness, can't know that htat person in /particular/ did that. Hell, they might be too young to have played 4e.
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May 9, 2022 23:05
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Sorta fun to watch the tides shift as now everyone that goes in there say like "4e wasn't D&D, they should have called it Fantasy Tactics or something" is getting shouted down. Guy in there trying the old "Fighters are for consistent damage" argument, and being shut down on every point. It warms my heart.
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May 9, 2022 23:23
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like with any other question that revolves around media literacy, people aren't actually stupid, they're just really bad at consciously identifying what they like and why they like it. give them enough time and enough concretely different examples to make comparisons between and they'll start developing not only critical opinions but the language to explain them to others meanwhile the entire field of marketing and branding basically exists to nip this growing sophistication in the bud, because mutually exclusive niches are bad for business 
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May 9, 2022 23:30
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Love poo poo like this so much:Reddit posted:There's obviously a middle ground, for sure. You wouldn't have to write "close burst 6" or some other terms a newbie wouldn't be familiar with. "I sure wish 5e had 4e templating but I could pretend it had something different because I drew an ideological line in the sand in 2014 and I'm afraid of change!"
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May 9, 2022 23:49
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theironjef posted:Love poo poo like this so much:
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May 10, 2022 00:04
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Absurd Alhazred posted:The thing about something being ahead of its time is that eventually it can be of its time. Timely. I should have said "it can be timely". Pretend I was more eloquent. 
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May 10, 2022 00:05
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This just proves my theory that was made DND 5e explode wasn't 5e itself but the media exposure. The combination of factors that made DND suddenly so big would have worked with any edition.
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May 10, 2022 02:19
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Absurd Alhazred posted:The thing about something being ahead of its time is that eventually it can be of its time. This was literally what Paizo rules designers said when challenged about how much like 4e Pathfinder 2e is. "4e was ahead of its time and we just didn't recognize how right it was with some of what it did." or something like that.
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May 10, 2022 03:17
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MonsieurChoc posted:This just proves my theory that was made DND 5e explode wasn't 5e itself but the media exposure. 4e would have done gangbusters if it wasn't for the murder-suicide.
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May 10, 2022 03:21
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Toshimo posted:4e would have done gangbusters if it wasn't for the murder-suicide. Also if instead of Atari chasing the MMO market with the video game license, it made something closer to FFTactics or the Shadowrun Returns games in style.
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May 10, 2022 03:48
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https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/395890/RPGs-for-Reproductive-Justice-BUNDLE RPGs for Reproductive Justice [BUNDLE] quote:The profits will be entirely donated to the National Network of Abortion Funds (abortionfunds.org) Don't know the best place to share this but it's a great cause and a ton of content so please share wherever.
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May 10, 2022 03:50
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Ferrinus posted:I never got to play Weapons of the Gods but I thought it was pretty cool when I read it. IIRC the basic "Strike" stat that governed accuracy/defense was too strong or easy to get or something in the corebook, but supplements tuned it down not by changing the rules per se but adding fairly common effects that could flatten/even out/negate it in various contests. It is really cool, but it definitely suffered from some god-stat issues that the one supplement, the Companion, didn't really fix. You had to get fairly esoteric/high level for Strike equalization or neutralization to really get going, and that's going to have to be kind of your whole gimmick if you're going to do it at all. Meanwhile Strike remains king for everyone else, as well as for neutralizers if they don't have the actions or chi to pull off the one or two techniques to do it which won't be a super uncommon occurrence. The spiritual successor Legends of the Wulin did a lot of work to spruce up the system and is generally just a better game mechanically, not least of which by splitting Strike into Strike and Block. Still some pretty rough edges here and there, but definitely worth playing if you get the chance.
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May 10, 2022 04:54
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Bottom Liner posted:https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/395890/RPGs-for-Reproductive-Justice-BUNDLE It has Unbound in it which is worth 25bux all by itself. Good deal.
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May 10, 2022 06:33
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I couldn't find a general thread for Diplomacy, but if I'm on an unclaimed supply center at the start of a fall move and move into another unclaimed supply center AND another player is trying to move into that square then we both get pushed back to where we were(?) I think. If that happens and I'm in the original unclaimed square does that put it under my control?
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May 10, 2022 07:59
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Yes it does.
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May 10, 2022 08:22
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Well hot drat. Its gonna be a fun year in the balkans then. edit: If anyone's interested https://www.backstabbr.com/game/War-in-the-Pocket/5160210280480768/1901/spring My husband is Austria but he's not really into turn based strategy games so he's mostly turned it over to me. Russia reached out offering a non aggression pact with promises of a northward expansion in exchange for not challenging their move into Romania. He's unwilling to openly start poo poo with Turkey (who is IRL married to Italy and so I expect a pincer attack at some point.) but is down for support vs Germany. As you can see Turkey and France aren't sure what's going on, Italy probably got high and forgot to send in orders. I understand Germany is a ruthless war game player, and I have no idea who is playing the UK. Russia is a nice guy but I can absolutely see him loving us over, and it looks like he's moving to surround Bud. I'm wondering who the other players are talking to and if I should start talking to everyone just for chaos since it seems most people aren't communicating. Guildenstern Mother fucked around with this message at 09:21 on May 10, 2022 |
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May 10, 2022 09:05
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Toshimo posted:4e would have done gangbusters if it wasn't for the murder-suicide.
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May 10, 2022 11:01
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4th edition will forever have a special place in my heart because it is what got me back into tabletop rpg after 12 year long break. If someone I know would be willing to give it a shot I would be immediately in boat
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May 10, 2022 11:35
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Actual question because I see it come up a lot, is there actually any evidence that 4e didn't do well? I mean they printed a billion books for it over a long period and gave it a ton of support, there was just a very vocal set of detractors. A bunch of people yelling collectively on a forum about how not D&D it is has nothing to do with sales and how much play it gets though.
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May 10, 2022 14:11
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Glagha posted:Actual question because I see it come up a lot, is there actually any evidence that 4e didn't do well? I mean they printed a billion books for it over a long period and gave it a ton of support, there was just a very vocal set of detractors. A bunch of people yelling collectively on a forum about how not D&D it is has nothing to do with sales and how much play it gets though. It didn't do well enough. They were trying to pitch it as a brand separate from Magic, and it never pulled in, like, Transformers or Barbie level money. Now, this is purely in the corporate sense, the "have your best year all the time" sense. But it is also why 4E faded. Glazius fucked around with this message at 14:26 on May 10, 2022 |
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May 10, 2022 14:24
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Short answer: it did fine, but it appears to be perceived as a failure by the people in charge. Longer answer: we can't say for sure, because the publicly available data is sparse, inconsistent, and unreliable. But it was reported to be profitable, sold a lot of books, and seemed to rake in money despite some serious handicaps like being sold as print-only with a less than great online character builder. Acquisition Inc. was a wildly popular series from Penny Arcade at the height of their popularity and laid the groundwork for the current explosion of Actual Plays. A great deal the 'D&D is cool now' public perception predates D&D Next, although not at the current levels. But none of that really matters because the people currently steering D&D (rightly) see 5e as an overwhelming incredible success beyond their wildest dreams, especially when viewing D&D as a brand. While we can quibble about why that was (a working online tool, PDF sales, and more virtual-friendly rules...), since 5e was at least partially conceived as a reaction against and return from 4e that means that 5e's success is defined as 4e's failure.
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May 10, 2022 14:40
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Mike Mearles has said every edition of D&D outsold the previous.
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May 10, 2022 14:48
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Covermeinsunshine posted:4th edition will forever have a special place in my heart because it is what got me back into tabletop rpg after 12 year long break. If someone I know would be willing to give it a shot I would be immediately in boat There are people who keep playing it. There was even an instance of a recurring convention last weekend, apparently!
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May 10, 2022 15:03
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Tibalt posted:Short answer: it did fine, but it appears to be perceived as a failure by the people in charge. 4E character builder is widely regarded as one of the best though? Or was it poo poo at launch and became amazing after?
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May 10, 2022 15:06
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I imagine that it's not hard to make money on 5e considering they have like 5 people actually producing game content and the rest of the brand is just marketing and making expensive accessories while you get free advertisement from Critical Role.
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May 10, 2022 15:07
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Tibalt posted:But none of that really matters because the people currently steering D&D (rightly) see 5e as an overwhelming incredible success beyond their wildest dreams, especially when viewing D&D as a brand. While we can quibble about why that was (a working online tool, PDF sales, and more virtual-friendly rules...), since 5e was at least partially conceived as a reaction against and return from 4e that means that 5e's success is defined as 4e's failure. I’ve been wondering about the next edition of dnd because I realized 5th ed is creeping closer to a decade since release. It looks like wotc is happy to ride this wave of popularity by putting out splat books and improving the digital side of the game, so do people think they’re worried an edition shift would lose a lot of momentum? I’m also curious what they would do with 6th ed mechanically but that’s a different question.
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May 10, 2022 15:11
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Chakan posted:I’ve been wondering about the next edition of dnd because I realized 5th ed is creeping closer to a decade since release. It looks like wotc is happy to ride this wave of popularity by putting out splat books and improving the digital side of the game, so do people think they’re worried an edition shift would lose a lot of momentum?
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May 10, 2022 15:27
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MonsieurChoc posted:4E character builder is widely regarded as one of the best though? Or was it poo poo at launch and became amazing after? From a business perspective, it was too generous for something you could download once and play with indefinitely. And that's without getting into all the virtual tabletop stuff they had planned that never happened. Point is, it was great but if a few things were different it could have started the current D&D revolution earlier. (I personally don't think it would have, just based on how the internet has changed since 4e came out, but it could have.)
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May 10, 2022 15:35
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MonsieurChoc posted:4E character builder is widely regarded as one of the best though? Or was it poo poo at launch and became amazing after?
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May 10, 2022 15:43
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MonsieurChoc posted:4E character builder is widely regarded as one of the best though? Or was it poo poo at launch and became amazing after? They could also be talking about the Silverlight character builder, which was kind of garbo when they came out with that.
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