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If you do decide to try W&R it also requires some massaging of your brain to make it fit. Please post any questions in the W&R thread though because it does basically require communal help to make it make sense.
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Jun 1, 2022 13:40
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I will say that no other city builder does what W&R does. And when that style of game is mixed with Factorio then you have a truly unique experience. It took me a long time to grok W&R but I get it now. And I also suspect it’s going to end up being the better game but we shall see.
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Jun 1, 2022 13:42
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Tears of pride streaming down my face as I look upon the last ten hours of work and see my factory produce one unit of asphalt.
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Jun 1, 2022 13:48
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"Captain of Industry" is a generic name and pretty bad if you want to search on the internet. Just saying.
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Jun 1, 2022 14:08
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Wipfmetz posted:"Captain of Industry" is a generic name and pretty bad if you want to search on the internet. Just saying. Captain of Industry game works.
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Jun 1, 2022 14:12
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Workers and Resources has a tutorial that is actively hostile to your understanding. And really struggles with the UI communicating fun ideas like importing from the border, importing from warehouses next to the border etc. I might say there's a layer of polish it has compared to Captain of Industry but it's still the the most obtuse game that gets regularly discussed here. Captain of Industry feels a lot like Factory Town at release, in concepts and tutorial polish. Agent based transport until you research belts. Tight knots to untie to get a safe supply of building materials. Homes are there to provide a parallel advancement depending on your production. Tutorial missing a few details that felt automatic to the devs. Should mention Factory Town explains itself pretty well these days so I guess EA works?
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Jun 1, 2022 14:17
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I played CoI until about mid-tech 2 and am enjoying it so far. Its a good mix of Workers and Resources (but less fiddly in many ways, more fiddly in a few others) and Factorio (but much much smaller scale) and terraforming. I think it advances the genre. I am having a hell of a time figuring out the dumping and mining and transporting though. My slag depot will fill up and trucks will just leave it there instead of dumping unless I export, and trucks keep leaving my garbage dumps full instead of dumping all the trash in the ocean, except when it does work randomly.
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Jun 1, 2022 14:21
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zedprime posted:Workers and Resources has a tutorial that is actively hostile to your understanding. What is the import of this? Like should I actively skip the tutorial, as it will make it harder to get the game?
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Jun 1, 2022 14:30
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SlyFrog posted:What is the import of this? Like should I actively skip the tutorial, as it will make it harder to get the game?
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Jun 1, 2022 14:43
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Best way to understand WR is to try a cosmonaut run from the beginning imho.
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Jun 1, 2022 15:05
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Yeah but you’re still going to fail and struggle a lot with WandR. I watched some streamers for CoI which helped but it does need a tutorial even if i grokked it.
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Jun 1, 2022 15:28
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Now I remember why I didn't end up doing W&R - it doesn't really have any goals or missions, right? There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not usually my cup of tea. One thing I would say that had enticed me about CoI, is it felt like it had some overall goals (getting back off the island). I did just load up W&R. The aesthetic is great, but I realized, I have no idea why I should even build anything.
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Jun 1, 2022 16:01
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You have to bring your own story. And it helps to like communism a lot .
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Jun 1, 2022 16:02
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SlyFrog posted:Now I remember why I didn't end up doing W&R - it doesn't really have any goals or missions, right? For me at the end of the day storylines in city builders are fake anyway so why not make up my own. I want a nice big self sufficient city with maximum happiness 😀
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Jun 1, 2022 16:08
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euphronius posted:You have to bring your own story. And it helps to like communism a lot . I actually really dig the communist aesthetic part of it. Story is harder for me, but that's a personal preference of mine, not a defect in the game. Mayveena posted:For me at the end of the day storylines in city builders are fake anyway so why not make up my own. I want a nice big self sufficient city with maximum happiness 😀 I absolutely understand that intellectually, it's just not for me. I was the kid who didn't play with Legos because what was the point. I just do better with a generated goal. I don't really care about a story, but I want an overarching goal. Even something as simple as Factorio's and Rimworld's "launch the rocket and get off the planet" is enough for me, but I usually can't just putter about building stuff for its own sake. I'm sick, I know. SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 16:09
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OwlFancier posted:require communal help 
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Jun 1, 2022 17:19
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SlyFrog posted:Now I remember why I didn't end up doing W&R - it doesn't really have any goals or missions, right? I think with W&R the story really is what you build yourself. And, the key thing, is that you really have to build it. Once you lay out a major highway through a region built all with your own domestically produced materials and labour, having trucked every tonne of poo poo every step of the way, that highway itself really means something. It represents years of work for your republic, the product of your own little machine you made. Unlike other city builders where it's just a few dollars, for you it's a major investment and you can't just redevelop it easily either, closing that highway to resurface it or move it would be a big issue because it's likely a major infrastructure route and you would have to actually close it for however long it takes to make the changes. For a communism simulator I find it very appropriate that it is one of the best anti-alienation simulators out there, in the sense that you really get the sense playing it that everything you have done facilitates greater capability for the little video game country you are making, and for yourself playing the game, in the future. It is a similar sense you can get with factorio, when your factory starts being capable of producing more of itself quickly, except W&R does it in a city builder format which I feel like resonates a bit more strongly, especially when it simulates terrain effects quite strongly too, so you get this additional feeling of conquering a landscape and making it conducive to human habitation. A good goal I think to strive for is autarky, producing everything domestically. And on good maps this can necessitate really stretching over the whole map and all the infrastructure projects that entails as well. Also yes this, it is very funny that the communism game requires a vanguard party to teach everyone else how to do it because it's very hard to understand otherwise. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 17:43
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It really feels disgusting when you spend $$$ to have something built .
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Jun 1, 2022 17:43
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OwlFancier posted:I think with W&R the story really is what you build yourself. thanks, this is making me want to play it. wish me luck comrades, i shall be making GBS threads up your thread shortly
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Jun 1, 2022 17:49
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As I mentioned start with the goal of trying to buy as little as possible (becuase it’s a filthy betrayal of your ideals ) I think the game maker is going to support that mode officially soon
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Jun 1, 2022 17:50
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To be clear you absolutely can play it largely like a normal city builder, just buying everything built and selling stuff to make money to buy more stuff. And I usually do buy things like, gravel paths and road segments, because the game has an annoying thing where it builds roads based on segments and it makes a new segment every time you make a junction and it cannot do multiple segments at once as one job. So, it will send out a fleet of work vehicles to deliver half a tonne of gravel which takes ten people like, a day to lay, and then do the same thing for the next segment. It makes small but dense road layouts take absurdly long to lay, so I just rush buy them, and I think that's the biggest issue with the construction system I can think of. But otherwise the game is far more fulfilling if you try to do it cosmonaut style, really leaning into the logistics side of it. They're making a proper mode for this in the next patch apparently so if you want to wait and feel like you would benefit from having the game force you to do it, that's an option too. Along with some very basic but instantly ploppable free buildings that facilitate domestic construction and some nice stuff like being able to hire construction labour and materials at the border. At the moment it's more a sort of optional hard mode that you can do if you want to and relies on basically the honour system, you have to buy yourself an initial city and then just not use it afterwards. It's just that if you don't lean into that feature then you're left with a kind of janky and otherwise fairly unremarkable blend of OTTD and cities skylines. The deep logistics sim is really the standout feature. There is a very good series by hmuda on youtube (using computer narration) and it does a very good job of showing a cosmonaut start and the challenges involved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3SSJ_FUzeY OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 17:53
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Oh right yeah totally buy small roads .
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Jun 1, 2022 17:56
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The cool thing is traffic is not a simulation or something painted on the roads but a situation your choices created.
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Jun 1, 2022 17:59
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euphronius posted:Oh right yeah totally buy small roads . I really hope they come up with something to make those faster to build, full cosmonaut is going to be very unpleasant otherwise lol. euphronius posted:The cool thing is traffic is not a simulation or something painted on the roads but a situation your choices created. Oh yes, it is a very good game for making you absolutely hate car centric design. They're great for servicing remote, low labour jobs like water plants, but jesus christ do not build your city around personal cars like the perfidious western pigdogs, you will die.
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Jun 1, 2022 17:59
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I'm not a huge fan of the YT channel but this is the best Captain of Industry video I've seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01e4DjLcvMs Stuck in the game of course because for some reason the coal truck won't deliver to the excavator in my mine (which has a mining tower and mining area set up).
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Jun 1, 2022 18:30
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yay finally got to automation in captain of industry. heres my iron setup:
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Jun 1, 2022 18:34
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In W&R you can keep network continuity pretty well with smart detour design. You can parallelize construction with dirt access roads to split chunks. You run into the pretty real constraints that it's much easier to build roads before the buildings or conflicting roads are there. It'd be cool if this was a little more baked in but you basically have enough tools to run your own public works office and minimize the time anything is spent offline for road construction and it looks cool as gently caress when everyone is driving on dirt or gravel detours while the main roads are being built.
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Jun 1, 2022 18:34
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Mayveena posted:For me at the end of the day storylines in city builders are fake anyway so why not make up my own. I want a nice big self sufficient city with maximum happiness 😀 Give me huge, well simulated sand boxes to play in all day. Missions are fine in character-driven games and the like, but if I'm making a dream city or settlement, why not make my dream city instead of some game design dweeb's? 
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Jun 1, 2022 18:44
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A month-ish ago I was very excited for CoI, and decided to dip my toe back into W&R in the meantime. Now I'm in danger of hurting my neck nodding in agreement with OwlFancier's posts about W&R, and very excited to figure out my first time getting rail setup to a small oil deposit relatively near my new republic as we get one step closer to self-sufficiency
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Jun 1, 2022 18:52
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Oh yeah you can totally plan around it, and in fact you instinctively get to hating any sort of road redevelopment and building everything as overengineered as you can first time to avoid it. You can also get a huge amount of utility out of just a simple dual carriageway, with dedicated overtaking lanes rather than having everyone limited by the speed of the slowest vehicle waiting to do a turn, and stuff like big roundabouts to help with offloading traffic. But at the same time you do have the same IRL constraints that sometimes lead you to overdeveloping an area, or underplanning infrastructure, you know I could just knock out another dozen apartment blocks, and a school, and a kindergarten, and some more services, and I'm sure the existing roads can take it and they'll just need some car parks so they can shift surplus labour around themselves, it's self organizing and I don't need to manually plan bus routes and... oh noooo... Then you're left with a mess of road signs and one way paint and pulling your hair out trying to salvage a mess that really needs half the city knocking down and a total replan from the start to fix, and maybe robert moses did do nothing wrong... Maybe I do need a giant elevated highway cutting right through the city and maybe I do need to demolish the orphanage to put it there. But that's the siren song of car centric design, you have to resist it and do good central planning from the start and resist the urge for convenient expansion, lay your infrastructure first and lay it well, find better ways to move people around. Don't give in to road traffic hell. Do not sprawl... OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 18:55
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SlyFrog posted:I actually really dig the communist aesthetic part of it. Story is harder for me, but that's a personal preference of mine, not a defect in the game. one of the problems with simcity and simcity-likes is that you're given centralized godlike power to... create the kind of distributed automobile-centric urban sprawl which exists BECAUSE there is no central land use planning authority in the united states. like i get it because you want to make a fun game more than you want to make a realistic simulation of urban development, and removing agency and tools from the player is objectively less fun. but its just really loving weird that you are the disembodied Spirit of Government and the best you can do within the bounds of the simulation is create late 20th century southern california urban sprawl. real big problem. and this leads to just weird inconsistencies in the game design. like, rezoning a bunch of land from light commercial to heavy commercial sparks a whole bunch of teardown and densification projects? thats not how this works IRL at all! on the other hand, WnR makes immediate sense. you are the central economic planning committee, go build communism. just the change in setting zeros out any ludonarrative conflicts
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Jun 1, 2022 18:56
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More than any other game I think it really gives you the feeling of legacy decisions. Factorio does it a bit, but by necessity factorio also evolves that out, basically? As you progress in the game you gain access to more and more tools to let you just rip up and replace huge sections of factory. W&R never does that, if you demolish a building the residents have to go somewhere else. If you don't have anywhere else to go, well gently caress it, the game won't let you demolish it. And doing that is going to interfere with a lot of important stuff probably as well. Roads are hard to change, there's a bunch of power and water and heating infrastructure too that had to be set up, and stuff like the heating plant can't have development near it or people will get sick from the pollution, and you can't knock it down and move it because it's keeping ten thousand people from freezing to death and it would take a lot of time to set up a new one and transfer all the pipework over. In a lot of city builders you can just drag over a new road or demolish a chunk and redevelop it. Or yeah, as above, you just rezone it and it magically changes. In W&R you have to plan all of that yourself. And the time it takes to enact it is a major blow to your productivity. So there is a huge incentive to just... live with it? Set something up badly ten years ago and now it's causing problems? Well you just have to deal with that. You could fix it, but fixing it would be more of a ballache than just giving up and developing around it. It can leave you with this... like... almost pollution of the map with suboptimal designs. They're there, they sort of work, but they don't work well enough for you to really want to invest in them, and getting rid of them would be a pain in the arse, so you just sort of pretend they aren't there and try and build a new, better design somewhere else. You end up with a bunch of weird, flawed cities that have realistic problems and as the person who designed it you feel at the same time at fault for that, and also annoyed at them for being so bloody awkward to keep happy. Can't you sort your own poop problems out for god's sake? Just put some more jumpers on it's only minus 20.
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Jun 1, 2022 19:11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvOwCDPXTCo Orbital Potato had a good series in alpha that got me excited about the game so I imagine this new one will be worth watching for at least some early game tips.
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Jun 1, 2022 19:12
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Is Kingdoms Reborn any good? I'm sort of enjoying Settlement Survival but the tech tree seems so disjointed. You unlock one tech, and the following tech in the branch is something kind of unrelated.
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Jun 1, 2022 19:29
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Wanted to pipe in on the W&R Chat to show off to new folks- If you're like me and really like to make things Pretty and not *just* efficient, you can do that in W&R too, at least with the help of mods. I really can't fully engage with a lot of management games if they don't trick me into thinking I'm doing something creative and not *solely* balancing an equation. I was afraid I wouldn't get the creativity side of it, but once I saw the mod community and got into the nitty-gritty, you can do a lot of beautiful stuff. (...Beautiful if you like Soviet-style brutalism, I guess.) Here's a smattering of screenies to coax you. Some I'm sure I've posted here before and there's a ton more in the dedicated thread too.    (you do not need to build massive train+highway cloverleafs like this and you shouldn't.)    It really is about the only game that I can name that has this intersection of aesthetic quality and functional challenge. Satisfactory has a little bit of it, but its still really just a Number Go Up factory, more or less. Other factory games really only have the meaty mechanics, and that seems similar for a lot of transit/transport games too. Or in something like Transport Fever that definitely allows for some aesthetic creativity, it often doesn't feel meaty enough in the right ways.. Hard to explain. Cities: Skylines is amazing for purely zen-garden building, but has almost 0 challenge past a certain early point in the game and then becomes finding ways to game the insane truck-based industry hell. Workers lets me make awesome looking poo poo while still having to worry about getting every ton of gravel to that awesome poo poo. It rules.
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Jun 1, 2022 20:44
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What's the best W&R for stupid stoned babies
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Jun 1, 2022 20:46
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tokin opposition posted:What's the best W&R for stupid stoned babies Like, guide, or approach..?
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Jun 1, 2022 20:49
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Guide, apologies. I'm baby
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Jun 1, 2022 20:51
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Qubee posted:Is Kingdoms Reborn any good? I'm sort of enjoying Settlement Survival but the tech tree seems so disjointed. You unlock one tech, and the following tech in the branch is something kind of unrelated. I really like it, and they're still putting out updates every three or four months which vastly upgrade the game. It's still very much a standard city builder - lay down specific buildings to build economy chains to make better population - but it does it very well. The economy is tough without being razor's edge danger, but you have to accept early on that you can't produce everything your town needs, so you'll have to set up import and export routes. And the tech tree is also a little disjointed (research Beekeeping to get to better roads!) but at least the tree is fully visible so you know how to get where you're going. Also, the soundtrack is really good.
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Jun 1, 2022 20:59
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 17:37 |
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My people are starving to death while my potato farmer just sits on his throne of spuds.
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Jun 1, 2022 21:03
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