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Personally, I was hoping that Kheris would hold off on taking MRD until after 5.0.  Edit: hell of a page snipe.
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Jul 5, 2022 14:48
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AncientSpark posted:They are also a bit more self-buff dependent than DPS classes and there will always be certain self-buffs that a tank will need (whereas they can't complicate the DPS rotation too much until more tools later). You can see this with how crowded their Role Action page is compared to other jobs/roles. There's really not that many ways you can make interesting variations of Rampart or Arm's Length, for example. It's not until I played a tank that I noticed you keep all role actions when you get level synced down. Everyone else's are either available below level 15, highly situational or both.
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Jul 5, 2022 14:51
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One thing that may be relevant about MRD teaching you to always be moving forward: until EW, MRD's spammable aoe skill to gain aggro was not a circular pbaoe like the other tanks. It was instead a frontal cone, and that becomes very noticeable if you do hall of the novice as a MRD - in the lesson about getting and holding aggro on multiple enemies, the MRD's target dummies are arranged so you need to position yourself to catch them all in the cone. Endwalker changed overpower to instead be a circle pbaoe like the other tanks' basic spammable aoe, but originally MRD really did need to be constantly at the forefront of the group to line up the overpower cones appropriately. You can still see NPC marauders using overpower as a cone aoe instead of the new circle.
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Jul 5, 2022 14:54
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SirPhoebos posted:Personally, I was hoping that Kheris would hold off on taking MRD until after 5.0. Agreed, but then again, given how nothing MRD/WAR quest are, maybe it's better she didn't bother, lol
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Jul 5, 2022 15:11
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There used to be more differentiation. PLD did not have an aoe at any level for quite a long time and had a single dps combo while warrior had three different combo finishers and two different second swing abilities. The homogenization has happened progressively over each expac, and with how tanking works in this game I think it’s necessary.
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Jul 5, 2022 15:49
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Jesus, I can't imagine how having no AOE worked on a tank. Did you just keep having to juggle targets? You had aggro combos back then too, right? It wasn't like it is now where just turning on your tank stance makes it basically impossible to lose aggro so long as you're attacking. I didn't do much tanking or healing before ShB, so I've only done the more homogenised versions.
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Jul 5, 2022 16:00
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If I remember correctly, your shield/axe throw abilities generated extra enmity, so when gathering up a crowd of mobs with no AOE you basically just had to ranged attack everybody once or twice.
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Jul 5, 2022 16:06
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Pretty much. Single target attacks on dungeon packs were largely the way to go for everyone, from what I understand, and AOE as standard practice was more of a thing at the time of Stormblood and Shadowbringers overhauls. Back in ARR you couldn't even get Provoke on one job by itself, it was a cross-class skill you had to transfer over. Coherent skill spreads were not exactly present at the time.
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Jul 5, 2022 16:09
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Mr. Nice! posted:There used to be more differentiation. PLD did not have an aoe at any level for quite a long time and had a single dps combo while warrior had three different combo finishers and two different second swing abilities. Yeah, you can see that from how, for example, paladin doesn't get a gap closer until level seventy four, while the other tanks get it significantly earlier.
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Jul 5, 2022 16:10
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Veotax posted:Jesus, I can't imagine how having no AOE worked on a tank. Did you just keep having to juggle targets? PLD had an AOE, but it didn't do damage, it only generated enmity.
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Jul 5, 2022 16:14
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Veotax posted:Jesus, I can't imagine how having no AOE worked on a tank. Did you just keep having to juggle targets? Paladin had Flash, which was an aoe increased enmity and blind, but did no damage. You'd use it to establish aggro and keep up the blind, then primarily cycle through mobs with your single-target rotation. Flash also used MP instead of TP, so it had the benefit of being spammed more easily if needed. Whereas spamming damaging AoEs would fairly quickly lead most melee jobs to being unable to attack any more.
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Jul 5, 2022 16:18
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It's always a little funny going back to do a ARR class quest after finishing an expansion or 2. You've fought enemy armies, gods, dragons, and who knows what else, but now you have to train hard to you can kill this larger than average buffalo. It doesn't break the story for me or anything, it's just a bit silly. After this, the only ARR job quests left that you haven't done will be monk and summoner, right? Considering who you're going to be traveling with, there will be plenty of excuses to pick up monk at any point you feel like. Summoner is a bit odd though, it shares levels with Scholar so it's technically already leveled.
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Jul 5, 2022 16:20
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Gruckles posted:Paladin had Flash, which was an aoe increased enmity and blind, but did no damage. You'd use it to establish aggro and keep up the blind, then primarily cycle through mobs with your single-target rotation. Let's just say that TP's death in Shadowbringers was unmourned for this very reason.
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Jul 5, 2022 16:24
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Rhonne posted:It's always a little funny going back to do a ARR class quest after finishing an expansion or 2. You've fought enemy armies, gods, dragons, and who knows what else, but now you have to train hard to you can kill this larger than average buffalo. It doesn't break the story for me or anything, it's just a bit silly. How silly it feels depends on how well they made an excuse for why you have to do things as that job. Like if you've got to cleanse some taint it makes sense that you have to use conjury to do it, even if you're not very good at it because you haven't trained in specifically that. But if you've got to kill a buffalo, well you have a dozen powerful and stylish ways of doing that already. Although silliest is probably DRG where the inititial quests are about you chasing down a criminal called Estinien.
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Jul 5, 2022 16:43
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Gruckles posted:Paladin had Flash, which was an aoe increased enmity and blind, but did no damage. You'd use it to establish aggro and keep up the blind, then primarily cycle through mobs with your single-target rotation. Tanking in general used to be more difficult, more plates to keep spinning so to speak. Best practices was also to pop out of tank stance after establishing aggro to keep the dps up. I don't miss it. I very much prefer the current style get aggro and aoe than constantly cycling through mobs to hit them with a single part of your rotation.
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Jul 5, 2022 17:18
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Reading all of these posts about how the game used to be really drives home the “there’s never been a better time to start!” message, doesn’t it?
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Jul 5, 2022 17:39
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Rap Game Goku posted:I don't miss it. I very much prefer the current style get aggro and aoe than constantly cycling through mobs to hit them with a single part of your rotation. Why cycle through targets? Tank AoEs all do more average potency per GCD with three or more targets. There's some niche uses to single target, like PLD eventually getting more MP back if they need to spam Clemency for some reason, but in general use the AoEs are fine.
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Jul 5, 2022 17:45
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Marauder was pretty funny in ARR because it didn't get a DPS tank stance when upgraded to warrior, so for soloing and PvP you didn't need or want the WAR stance anyway. Meanwhile, cross-class skills worked differently, eg. Flash could be cross classed by almost anyone and it helped get gold in crowded FATEs because more enmity = more contribution, without having a cast time or requiring a target. Because the base classes had access to way more cross-class skills (and had more slots for them than jobs), marauder could just pick the DPS buff/cooldown of each class and become a murder machine without really losing much from not using the job stone.Gruckles posted:Paladin had Flash, which was an aoe increased enmity and blind, but did no damage. You'd use it to establish aggro and keep up the blind, then primarily cycle through mobs with your single-target rotation. Onean posted:Why cycle through targets? Tank AoEs all do more average potency per GCD with three or more targets. There's some niche uses to single target, like PLD eventually getting more MP back if they need to spam Clemency for some reason, but in general use the AoEs are fine. 
orcane fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 17:47
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I’m slightly disappointed that Paladin is the only job that uses shields, because I just realized that there was a missed opportunity for a Marauder Shields shoutout
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Jul 5, 2022 17:52
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orcane posted:"than", not "then" Ah. The sentence structure threw me off (it's not wrong, but my brain saw it only a certain way, probably due to firework-induced insomnia this past week), and I thought it was a misspelling... Onean fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 17:56
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Regalingualius posted:Reading all of these posts about how the game used to be really drives home the “there’s never been a better time to start!” message, doesn’t it? Absolutely; I'm really glad I got in on this circa mid-Shadowbringers; there certainly have been some big improvements even since then (The MSQ streamline efforts, praetorium overhaul, duty support, etc.) but man I'm glad thr overall battle system got hammered into roughly this shape back the.
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Jul 5, 2022 18:01
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Onean posted:Ah. The sentence structure threw me off (it's not wrong, but my brain saw it only a certain way, probably due to firework-induced insomnia this past week), and I thought it was a misspelling... Sorry, phone postin' and didn't catch it. Point is that things are better now.
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Jul 5, 2022 19:20
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Yeah, if nothing else SB has a fond place in my heart for the system changes
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Jul 5, 2022 19:56
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:We need an NPC that clonks Alisaie and Alphinaud's heads together like The Three Stooges whenever they get out of line. This is why the writers should have kept Moenbryda around longer
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Jul 5, 2022 21:44
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Maxwell Lord posted:This is why the writers should have kept Moenbryda around longer Now I'm sad.
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Jul 5, 2022 21:53
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Maxwell Lord posted:This is why the writers should have kept Moenbryda around longer She really got done dirty by the story.
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Jul 5, 2022 22:01
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Regalingualius posted:I’m slightly disappointed that Paladin is the only job that uses shields, because I just realized that there was a missed opportunity for a Marauder Shields shoutout White and Black Mages use shields  (ARR counts dammit!)
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Jul 5, 2022 22:03
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Qwertycoatl posted:White and Black Mages use shields I wholeheartedly agree; my set of Tidal Wand + Tidal Buckler and Allagan Scepter/Tremor Cudgel/Inferno Cudgel + Ancient Buckler have been ready to go in my Armory Chest for ages, ready for use at a moment's notice!
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Jul 5, 2022 22:28
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Feldegast42 posted:She really got done dirty by the story. Even Noraxia was in the Scions longer than Moenbryda.
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Jul 5, 2022 22:58
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NyoroEevee posted:I wholeheartedly agree; my set of Tidal Wand + Tidal Buckler and Allagan Scepter/Tremor Cudgel/Inferno Cudgel + Ancient Buckler have been ready to go in my Armory Chest for ages, ready for use at a moment's notice! It's really sad you can't freely glam those in, though I know the reasons why
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Jul 6, 2022 01:04
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as I pretty much leveled up through the entire game using BLM when I started, I'm pretty glad I didn't have to, well, deal with cross-class skills. Having to level up other classes just to mix and match getting skills? Kind of a pain in the rear end. That went double for tanks too.
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Jul 6, 2022 01:15
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Kerzoro posted:as I pretty much leveled up through the entire game using BLM when I started, I'm pretty glad I didn't have to, well, deal with cross-class skills. Not only that, you had to level two classes to get your job stone! Back in ARR they really wanted to force people to engage with the whole "play any class on one character" thing, it was weird.
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Jul 6, 2022 01:21
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An artifact of 1.0 gameplay as I understand it; I'm very glad it got reworked before I even gave it a shot for the first time because man, having to cross-class just to do your job sounds awful.
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Jul 6, 2022 02:24
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It was! Poor melee DPS had to all level dragoon to the 40s to get a cooldown, I think every caster had to level black mage for swiftcase, provoke was a cross class skill so you might run into warriors that didn't have it...
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Jul 6, 2022 04:26
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Hellioning posted:It was! I had THM at 28 for all of HW because of this.
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Jul 6, 2022 04:56
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I’m reminded of how FF Tactics did something really similar when they made Dark Knight, previously a guest party member job only, into a player attainable one in the rerelease, but made it such a total pain in the rear end that it just wasn’t worth it unless you really wanted it. Off the top of my head, it involved: -Maxing out Knight and Black Mage, which were on two different trees for Job advancement; -Almost maxing out a few other physical-oriented Jobs; and -Getting 20 killing blows, which doesn’t sound too bad on paper… except that really meant waiting for the corpse to fully despawn, which took 3 of the corpse’s turns (a long time in the game’s system), so you’d usually just have to kill all but one of the enemy team and then twiddle your thumbs while you waited out the clock.
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Jul 6, 2022 16:20
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I only played the original playstation tactics so was very confused by your post until I just came back to it and saw the word "rerelease." I read that as "release" at first.
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Jul 6, 2022 16:39
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Regalingualius posted:-Getting 20 killing blows, which doesn’t sound too bad on paper… except that really meant waiting for the corpse to fully despawn, which took 3 of the corpse’s turns (a long time in the game’s system), so you’d usually just have to kill all but one of the enemy team and then twiddle your thumbs while you waited out the clock. If you're not already harvesting souls for precious precious abilities, what are you even doing. It's faster to let an enemy crystalize than it is to farm the JP to actually buy skills.
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Jul 6, 2022 18:02
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It sounds like the remake of FFT is quite a bit different than the original.
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Jul 6, 2022 18:11
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Mr. Nice! posted:It sounds like the remake of FFT is quite a bit different than the original. It's the same game with a different localization of the script, and a couple more side quests, story battles, and cut scenes. They also added two new jobs, Onion Knight and Dark Knight. OK was (poorly) designed to reward you for mastering every job on one character, and Dark Knight turned your character into an unstoppable death god. The PSP version also had a set of multiplayer battles that didn't make it into the iOS/Android rerelease.
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