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Rarity posted:Kumail Nunjani has been explicitly open about the body dysmorphia and eating disorders he developed bulking up for Kingo but sure go off He also said he was given the opportunity to pick how he looked and he made the choice to get mega jacked in part to counter stereotypes about Indian men in American films. He was obviously dealing with body image issues well before any of this and, surprise surprise, getting jacked didn’t fix those issues. Getting paid to get as jacked as your hearts desire may ultimately have negative psychological consequences if you’re dealing with unresolved issues, but it’s not really in the same category of unpleasant movie making experiences as like, James Cameron trying to drown you in a giant water tank or just getting the poo poo beaten out of you doing stunts. And yes, there’s certainly a concern valid concern that these sorts of ridiculous body images create pressure on other actors to keep up, but there are also plenty of guys who aren’t mega jacked who still get cast as superheros because they’re good looking and okay at acting. Simu Liu and Chadwick Boseman were certainly in shape, but they weren’t Marvel Chris jacked and nobody cared.
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Jul 27, 2022 23:29
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YOLOsubmarine posted:It is, but it’s also something that combat athletes, weightlifters, powerlifters and pretty much anyone who completes in sports with weight classes does multiple times a year. It’s worse when you’re trying to make weight because you’re also cutting way back on food. Weight cutting is really loving bad for people. It fucks up people's kidneys and, if done improperly, can make concussions far, far worse. Effort sto mitigate how hard people can weight cut has either made fighters weight cut more dangerously or, if done very varefully and smartly, improved fighter health. Weight cutting is common but it sure as hell isn't healthy or good. Martman posted:I didn't agree to that at all. Bodybuilding is exclusively about that one subject, and getting more jacked is the only way to get ahead. Disney people don't have to get buff in order to even get the role in the first place... And you think a willingness to commit to doing that wouldn't play a part in the casting process?
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Jul 27, 2022 23:31
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Snowman_McK posted:And you think a willingness to commit to doing that wouldn't play a part in the casting process? Martman fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Jul 27, 2022 |
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Jul 27, 2022 23:32
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You have a weird idea of healthy when it includes starving yourself and sleeping all the time and not doing literally anything but dedicating yourself to that, especially as you will be literally incapable of keeping that schedule up past a certain point where you actually have to work. Healthy eating and diet plans are extremely good, but "go from overweight to buff in 6 months" generally involves extreme measures that are not good for your physical or mental health in the long run.
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Jul 27, 2022 23:37
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Simu Liu and Chadwick Boseman were certainly in shape, but they weren’t Marvel Chris jacked and nobody cared. Look at the other films Boseman made in the same time, like Ma Rainey's Black Bottom, and you'll see he's about a third the size he was in Black Panther. He also had cancer. Also, whether the audience cares is not the same as whether the studio demands it. Martman posted:A willingness to commit to a long-term diet and workout plan that is extremely healthy and gets them very buff would help them, yes. It may also be bad on a societal level that this is true. You're still on the 'being super jacked/ripped is the same as being healthy' and you're wrong. It's not a matter of opinion, you're simply wrong. At the lower end, there's just not really a correlation between looking like you're in shape on camera and actually being healthy. If you're talking the guys who are in serious, action movie shape, they're actually damaging their bodies in a bunch of ways that there is literal decades of research on. This has been explained to you by multiple people. Please notice.
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Jul 27, 2022 23:38
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Martman posted:A willingness to commit to a long-term diet and workout plan that is extremely physically healthy and gets them very buff would help them, yes. It may also be bad on a societal level that this is true. You know, sex is healthy too. And people absolutely don't have to sleep with movie producers to get roles, there are many other ways.
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Jul 27, 2022 23:39
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9 hours of sleep a day is not "sleeping all the time" wtf!! Managing calories (but actually also eating a ton of protein and stuff) is not the same as starving yourself. If you don't keep up that schedule when it ends you don't suddenly become unhealthier than when you started or something. I just think people take this "unrealistic beauty standards" stuff and make it personally about celebrity worship instead of acknowledging that the problems are ones put on the public. Chris Pratt is not a victim of Disney. edit: Grendels Dad posted:You know, sex is healthy too. And people absolutely don't have to sleep with movie producers to get roles, there are many other ways. Martman fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jul 27, 2022 |
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Jul 27, 2022 23:40
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Martman posted:I just think people take this "unrealistic beauty standards" stuff and make it personally about celebrity worship instead of acknowledging that the problems are ones put on the public. Chris Pratt is not a victim of Disney. Chris Pratt might not be, but the next five Chris Pratts are, and all the people who want to be Chris Pratt. You talk about these issues as if they are not inextricably connected and it's really icky.
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Jul 27, 2022 23:44
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Interesting, Chris Pratt is back to dad boding in the Terminal List, a show I am currently hatewatching. He's had one shirtless scene and he's back to looking completely unremarkable, just kind of big.
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Jul 27, 2022 23:45
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Snowman_McK posted:Weight cutting is really loving bad for people. It fucks up people's kidneys and, if done improperly, can make concussions far, far worse. Effort sto mitigate how hard people can weight cut has either made fighters weight cut more dangerously or, if done very varefully and smartly, improved fighter health. Weight cutting is common but it sure as hell isn't healthy or good. Yea, and my point is acting like it’s some unique danger that buff actors face is silly. Plenty of people with far fewer resources do it in far more dangerous ways for far less reward. Dehydrating yourself once every couple of years for a shirtless scene isn’t going to have serious long term health consequences. The reason bodybuilders and fighters fall apart is because they do it over and over throughout the year for decades at a time and also absolutely trash their bodies across a lifetime of training. quote:And you think a willingness to commit to doing that wouldn't play a part in the casting process? I think there’s a certain baseline requirement to get into “superhero” shape but I think the guys who are going through these massive transformations are doing it because they want to do it and someone is offering to pay them to do it. It’s also going to vary from role to role with Thor having more particular requirements than Dr Strange or whatever.
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Jul 27, 2022 23:45
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Yea, and my point is acting like it’s some unique danger that buff actors face is silly. Plenty of people with far fewer resources do it in far more dangerous ways for far less reward. Dehydrating yourself once every couple of years for a shirtless scene isn’t going to have serious long term health consequences. The reason bodybuilders and fighters fall apart is because they do it over and over throughout the year for decades at a time and also absolutely trash their bodies across a lifetime of training. No one was saying it was unique. But you did a terrific job arguing against a thing no one said.
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Jul 27, 2022 23:46
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Martman posted:9 hours of sleep a day is not "sleeping all the time" wtf!! Managing calories (but actually also eating a ton of protein and stuff) is not the same as starving yourself. If you don't keep up that schedule when it ends you don't suddenly become unhealthier than when you started or something. I can only assume you are rich as gently caress if you think sleeping 9 hours a day is normal or that being able to not eat anything because you have no obligations and thus it doesn't matter how lovely you feel is healthy. For actual people who exist in the real world you can't in fact be paid to do nothing and it is only in this specific circumstances that it can be considered anything positive instead of a tremendously unhealthy way to live. There is a significant difference between managing calories and going for runs and the insane super-schedules that movie stars are on.
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Jul 27, 2022 23:48
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ImpAtom posted:You have a weird idea of healthy when it includes starving yourself and sleeping all the time and not doing literally anything but dedicating yourself to that, especially as you will be literally incapable of keeping that schedule up past a certain point where you actually have to work. 6 months is absolutely enough time to make a pretty significant and healthy transformation in body composition. It’s not going to make you look like Chris Hemsworth but you can accomplish a lot in 4-5 hours a week of gym time along with a good diet. You could lose ~50lbs of fat and add 10lbs of muscle, especially if you’re starting from a relatively unfit baseline. For a lot of people this still isn’t realistic because they have to work two jobs and take care of kids and can’t afford decent food, etc, but that’s a capitalism problem and movie casting choices aren’t going to change the fact that capitalism is build to grind down the working class Snowman_McK posted:Look at the other films Boseman made in the same time, like Ma Rainey's Black Bottom, and you'll see he's about a third the size he was in Black Panther. He also had cancer. Also, whether the audience cares is not the same as whether the studio demands it. He’s in good shape for Black Panther but he’s not in “impossible for a person with enough money to eat healthy and the free time exercise regularly to achieve” shape.
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Jul 27, 2022 23:57
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YOLOsubmarine posted:
Considering he's in form concealing clothing or a CGI suit for most of the movie, this is difficult to verify. Considering he had cancer his entire time as Black Panther, this does not make much of a point.
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Jul 27, 2022 23:59
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Snowman_McK posted:No one was saying it was unique. But you did a terrific job arguing against a thing no one said. I mean, this conversation started because someone said, essentially “marvel movies are attractive to big name actors because they get paid well and will keep them busy for years and won’t require them to kill themselves physically” and somehow dehydration got brought up as an example of how “insane” the physical demands are. My point was that it’s not really insane unless you consider millions of people who do it for amateur sporting events to even crazier degrees and for little to no money also insane.
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Jul 28, 2022 00:01
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YOLOsubmarine posted:I mean, this conversation started because someone said, essentially “marvel movies are attractive to big name actors because they get paid well and will keep them busy for years and won’t require them to kill themselves physically” and somehow dehydration got brought up as an example of how “insane” the physical demands are. My point was that it’s not really insane unless you consider millions of people who do it for amateur sporting events to even crazier degrees and for little to no money also insane. They are also insane and those sports are terrible for people. Is your take really "Well, do you think boxers and MMA fighters and kickboxers are also crazy and unhealthy?" because that's not hard to answer at all.
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Jul 28, 2022 00:03
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YOLOsubmarine posted:6 months is absolutely enough time to make a pretty significant and healthy transformation in body composition. It’s not going to make you look like Chris Hemsworth but you can accomplish a lot in 4-5 hours a week of gym time along with a good diet. You could lose ~50lbs of fat and add 10lbs of muscle, especially if you’re starting from a relatively unfit baseline. Yes. It's enough time to make a significant change. It isn't going to magically change you unless you are living an impossible schedule. That's the entire point. There is a difference between taking good care of yourself vs the insane hollywood thing and it can't even be based entirely on capitalism because "I don't have to do anything all day except be waited on and go for a run" isn't something that is going to exist in a world where someone isn't being exploited.
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Jul 28, 2022 00:04
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Snowman_McK posted:Interesting, Chris Pratt is back to dad boding in the Terminal List, a show I am currently hatewatching. He's had one shirtless scene and he's back to looking completely unremarkable, just kind of big. There's a lot diet and workout videos about Chris Pratt on YouTube and he's a good case for all of this because Schur asked him to gain a bunch of weight for Parks and Rec, which got him up near 300 pounds, cause fat = funny and then he injured himself trying to get in shape for Zero Dark Thirty.
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Jul 28, 2022 00:13
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Snowman_McK posted:They are also insane and those sports are terrible for people. Is your take really "Well, do you think boxers and MMA fighters and kickboxers are also crazy and unhealthy?" because that's not hard to answer at all. Lots of people, actually most people, do things that are bad for them, that doesn’t actually make them insane. Most of the wrestlers I’ve met happen to be nuts but I think that’s just a coincidence. Most of the powerlifters and Olympic lifters I’ve met are pretty chill despite cutting weight for their hobbies. ImpAtom posted:Yes. It's enough time to make a significant change. It isn't going to magically change you unless you are living an impossible schedule. That's the entire point. There is a difference between taking good care of yourself vs the insane hollywood thing and it can't even be based entirely on capitalism because "I don't have to do anything all day except be waited on and go for a run" isn't something that is going to exist in a world where someone isn't being exploited. I don’t really know what point you’re trying to make here. Can an average person look like Chris Hemsworth? No, of course not, but the average Hollywood person doesn’t look like Chris Hemsworth either. Not even your average Marvel actor looks like Chris Hemsworth. They’re all fit, but guys like RDJ or Paul Rudd or Jeremy Renner are fit in a way that’s theoretically achievable without literally devoting your life to it.
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Jul 28, 2022 00:17
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There's a difference in cutting for a movie and cutting for lifestyle. When your actual job is based around weight and youre wealthy, you counter it by living posh enough to not overly stress enough else where it's manageable. People are juxtaposing their lives and eating habits onto people that don't have 9 to 5s. Stars generally cut themselves down to a perfect level with trainers and dieticians and then do a water and fast cut right before they shoot their 8 pack scenes before going back to manageable. It's fine. Bodybuilders and MMA fighters have it a little worse off because they too often self manage, which creates more problems.
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Jul 28, 2022 00:56
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I think the issue with MCU actors getting insanely buff and cut in short periods of time with huge amounts of support from a studio is not that it's unhealthy for them but that it imparts unhealthy body image ideas to people watching who think they should look like that even though it takes an immense amount of hard work that is difficult if you don't have that support behind you. And probably steroids. I don't think it's that hard on the actors themselves, in the scheme of things.
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Jul 28, 2022 01:15
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live with fruit posted:Downey did most of his later Marvel stuff in his pajamas. Not even the later stuff. Beginning with Iron Man 2, he just wore the chest piece over a mo-cap suit. By the time of Age of Ultron--possibly even Iron Man 3--he wasn't in the suit at all and he just wore the mo-cap suit with tracking dots on his face.
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Jul 28, 2022 01:18
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Lots of people, actually most people, do things that are bad for them, that doesn’t actually make them insane. Most of the wrestlers I’ve met happen to be nuts but I think that’s just a coincidence. Most of the powerlifters and Olympic lifters I’ve met are pretty chill despite cutting weight for their hobbies. Most people don't dehydrate themselves, reducing the cushioning around the brain, then go get punched in the brain. Yes, most people eat chips, this is bad for you. Weight cutting and fighting professionally for little to no money, is also bad for you. This does not make them equivalent. Metis of the Hallways posted:I think the issue with MCU actors getting insanely buff and cut in short periods of time with huge amounts of support from a studio is not that it's unhealthy for them but that it imparts unhealthy body image ideas to people watching who think they should look like that even though it takes an immense amount of hard work that is difficult if you don't have that support behind you. And probably steroids. I don't think it's that hard on the actors themselves, in the scheme of things. Getting in shape really quickly isn't great for you. It's also not that they're getting in shape, they're doing a version of it that looks good on camera, which does not coincide and often directly contradicts actually being healthy. Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jul 28, 2022 |
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Jul 28, 2022 01:35
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Ah. I doubt they would have recast that either. I disagree. I have family that go to a really poo poo church and don't talk about it, but that poo poo rubs off. I had a 17 year old teen family member who's super cool in life and so nice and then somebody said "love is love" around us, and she went off on a tangent about "by that logic, so is pedophilia and bestiality". I was so shocked that she said it my jaw just hung open. Anybody who thinks that way should be de-platformed..
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Jul 28, 2022 01:43
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ImpAtom posted:I can only assume you are rich as gently caress if you think sleeping 9 hours a day is normal or that being able to not eat anything because you have no obligations and thus it doesn't matter how lovely you feel is healthy. For actual people who exist in the real world you can't in fact be paid to do nothing and it is only in this specific circumstances that it can be considered anything positive instead of a tremendously unhealthy way to live. getting 8-9 hours of sleep is both normal and good for you. I'm not crazy rich and I do this.
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Jul 28, 2022 01:46
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ImpAtom posted:Yes. It's enough time to make a significant change. It isn't going to magically change you unless you are living an impossible schedule. That's the entire point. There is a difference between taking good care of yourself vs the insane hollywood thing and it can't even be based entirely on capitalism because "I don't have to do anything all day except be waited on and go for a run" isn't something that is going to exist in a world where someone isn't being exploited. 50 pounds and six months on a lot of people is going to look crazy different. and impossible schedule is the discipline to sacrifice some things to eat healthy and work out 5 times a week. But in terms of Hollywood, most of those actors also are on some sort of steroids I suspect, and when it comes to the shirtless shots they are 100% dehydrating themselves for like a day before they shoot, so that is unhealthy.
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Jul 28, 2022 01:49
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Snowman_McK posted:Most people don't dehydrate themselves, reducing the cushioning around the brain, then go get punched in the brain. Yes, most people eat chips, this is bad for you. Weight cutting and fighting professionally for little to no money, is also bad for you. This does not make them equivalent. There are people who cut weight for sports other than combat sports who are not “insane” or stupid. There are also people who do combat sports who understand the risks but enjoy the competition just like people who mountain climb or race motorcycles or any number of dangerous hobbies people engage in without being insane. Judging everyone who weighs risks differently than you as stupid or nuts is condescending. And cutting out water for a day to film a shirtless scene for a lot of money is way less dangerous or crazy than all of those things that millions of people already do just for fun.
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Jul 28, 2022 01:51
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It's less a spectrum of healthy and unhealthy behaviours and more a spider web. Controlling calories and weight training and getting into good shape is healthy. Doing it incredibly quickly is not. But superhero actors will still reap some of those health benefits but at a more exorbitant cost. Still, if you're regularly eating takeaways, have a largely sedentary existence, drinking every day or even a lot at the weekends, smoking and doing many things that a lot of people would consider quite normal, they are probably still much healthier than you. Didn't know I was commiting self abuse when cutting down either. News to me. Karloff fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Jul 28, 2022 |
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Jul 28, 2022 01:55
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I think the word "moderation" is what everyone is forgetting. It's healthy to work out, in moderation. It's healthy to cut weight, in moderation. Be it moderate time or intensity. Getting Kingo-shredded is not moderate, it is extreme. A majority of people literally cannot get to the levels Nanjiani or Hemsworth or Jackman did. It's a mental exercise, you have to be a very specific kind of person to do that. Even noted crazy person Christian Bale wasn't shredded at his largest size - Batman was big but not really dry. Pretending, or even intimating that you can look like Kingo in a healthy manner, let alone in a quick turnaround, is very unhealthy for others. Nanjiani was right to tell people it was unhealthy. So was McElhenney. Young people see those physiques and try to emulate them, and it is not a healthy thing to do. It is equivalent to the girls who got super skinny in the 90s, or the current wave of surgery-enhanced women with huge plastic asses.
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Jul 28, 2022 03:40
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YOLOsubmarine posted:There are people who cut weight for sports other than combat sports who are not “insane” or stupid. There are also people who do combat sports who understand the risks but enjoy the competition just like people who mountain climb or race motorcycles or any number of dangerous hobbies people engage in without being insane. Judging everyone who weighs risks differently than you as stupid or nuts is condescending. I never used the word stupid, and nothing else you said actually challenges the idea that weight cutting is dangerous and is harmful and has nothing to do with health. I think we've now talked entirely past each other and should probably just stop. well why not posted:I think the word "moderation" is what everyone is forgetting. It's healthy to work out, in moderation. It's healthy to cut weight, in moderation. Be it moderate time or intensity. Getting Kingo-shredded is not moderate, it is extreme. cutting weight is a very different practice to losing weight. It involves a combination of losing some fat over a shortish period of time but mostly losing water weight over a much shorter period of time. It is, by nature, unhealthy. It's done to maintain a size advantage in various sports, primarily but not exclusively combat sports. Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jul 28, 2022 |
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Jul 28, 2022 03:42
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Cutting weight is a type of losing weight. It's also a colloquialism for losing weight. Language is hard.
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Jul 28, 2022 04:04
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well why not posted:Cutting weight is a type of losing weight. It's also a colloquialism for losing weight. Language is hard. amputation is also a type of losing weight but I probably wouldn't use the terms interchangably.
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Jul 28, 2022 04:07
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Sandwolf posted:If that’s true that really sucks. Disney is loving lovely as hell for taking the one cool black man superhero (Sam Wilson’s Captain America is complicit in the system) and replacing him with a woman just feels lovely. Why no black man superhero? My brother, black panther literally teams up with the cia in the first one
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Jul 28, 2022 04:15
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Cutting weight is by definition unsustainable, dangerous weight loss done to make weigh-in limits in combat sports, and involves extremely dangerous stuff like sitting in a sauna long enough that you can't walk back to the scale. Many of you are showing your rear end on how little you know about any of this poo poo.
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Jul 28, 2022 04:15
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Cutting weight is by definition unsustainable, dangerous weight loss done to make weigh-in limits in combat sports, and involves extremely dangerous stuff like sitting in a sauna long enough that you can't walk back to the scale. Many of you are showing your rear end on how little you know about any of this poo poo. Even within the context of combat sports how extreme it is varies. Some guys fight pretty close to their natural in-shape weight so while they may still have a cut it’s basically just dieting and maybe dropping water intake at the very end of camp. Other guys are trying to shed 15 pounds of water weight in a couple of days and getting concussed on their bathtub when they pass out. But dehydration for a movie scene isn’t the same as a fighter cutting weight. It’s significantly less dangerous, which was the original point.
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Jul 28, 2022 04:28
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I am nearing the end of Jessica Jones Season 1 and getting increasingly concerned about the following seasons because I think I like this show for David Tennant's Kilgrave, and definitely not for the title character.
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Jul 28, 2022 04:58
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Roth posted:I am nearing the end of Jessica Jones Season 1 and getting increasingly concerned about the following seasons because I think I like this show for David Tennant's Kilgrave, and definitely not for the title character. There's less and less Kilgrave in Season 2 and 3. Some interesting concepts in 2 and 3, but definitely steps down from Season 1 IMO.
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Jul 28, 2022 04:59
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LionArcher posted:50 pounds and six months on a lot of people is going to look crazy different. and impossible schedule is the discipline to sacrifice some things to eat healthy and work out 5 times a week. But in terms of Hollywood, most of those actors also are on some sort of steroids I suspect, and when it comes to the shirtless shots they are 100% dehydrating themselves for like a day before they shoot, so that is unhealthy. Any celebrity that gets insanely shredded in ~6 months is absolutely on some kind of gear, albeit one that is heavily regimented and controlled with lots of oversight to monitor things. Yes it can be done with sufficient sacrifice and discipline but also you need "supplements" and proper medical expertise to go along with that. Which is fine honestly, the moral handwringing over steroids and other chemical enhancements in movies or sports or whatever is very dumb. But it would be good for everyone if the truth was admitted to openly because otherwise it just reinforces a lot of body dysmorphia and what not as people try to chase what is pretty much unattainable without a ton of money or being some sort of genetic freak. Roth posted:I am nearing the end of Jessica Jones Season 1 and getting increasingly concerned about the following seasons because I think I like this show for David Tennant's Kilgrave, and definitely not for the title character. Yeah they kind of hosed up the way they retired Kilgrave in S1.
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Jul 28, 2022 05:19
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Sandwolf posted:If that’s true that really sucks. Disney is loving lovely as hell for taking the one cool black man superhero (Sam Wilson’s Captain America is complicit in the system) and replacing him with a woman just feels lovely. Why no black man superhero? I think that's a very fair take. There is some fan pushback to Disney's reticence to recast T'Challa/Black Panther. I stumbled on this while doomscrolling because I couldn't sleep last night https://twitter.com/fayettevillainT/status/1549813478944292864 https://insidethemagic.net/2022/07/black-panther-wakanda-forever-boycott-th1/ They've got some interesting tweets in it on the matter: https://twitter.com/EmansReviews/status/1551078770068578304 https://twitter.com/guy_lnd/status/1551200567271329793 It's a rough spot because Boseman was a wonderful talent, but they are 100% correct that if aliens kidnapped Robert Pattinson today (or he died from trying to make pasta), WB would recast Bruce Wayne in a heartbeat.
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Jul 28, 2022 07:09
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This is largely unrelated except in the most tangential of ways, but one of my favorite things about Arnold was that he was very, very shrewd with body building. He used that as his in to Hollywood and then only kept up as much of his physique as he really needed to and is in pretty great shape now because of it. Also he was so monstrously jacked in Conan that he literally had to slim down to be able to do the choreography because his muscles were too big to be able to properly sword fight at all.
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Jul 28, 2022 07:13
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