|
The scene in the committee room still makes me laugh. They hold Superman responsible but, despite their public position of neutrality, the US had troops on the ground and the CIA flying in drones. Love the hypocrisy of the empire on display in these films. This film really lays out what constitutes power and who really has it. (Hint: It's not Superman) Despite the crisis actor lying through her teeth about Superman's involvement in the events in Africa, the questions she asks really does strike a nerve with Clark and you see the doubt set in early on. One thing I wish Zack did was settle a little more time with the newspaper clippings in Wally's room to give you an idea that this entire time Superman has been super busy just helping people. A lot of them range from earth-destroying to just helping a homeless guy in the woods. He isn't really thinking about who he chooses to help, he's just helping. But that montage later on in the film fills that purpose with the visuals. I think this plot point throws a wrench in a lot of people's perception of the character. You don't really have an answer to that question when you're a being like Superman. Anyone you help or action you take results in saving people who otherwise wouldn't be alive if you weren't there. You're just doing what you can for those who need it.
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2022 21:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 19:58 |
|
|
It really is bizarre that BvS has Superman going flat-out heroic in it but because a bunch of the chattering class is talking over it and second-guessing him, it lacks the impact of true heroism. Perhaps the film is trying to say something about that, hmmm?
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2022 21:07
|
|
|
Robot Style posted:An excerpt from a 600+ word comment someone left on one of my videos: what video?
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2022 21:27
|
|
|
Robot Style posted:An excerpt from a 600+ word comment someone left on one of my videos: Adam's Lois is definitely not as snarky as other portrayals, but she still captures what I like about the character: a tough, truth seeking reporter who's still a good and noble person. Also, that last line is more (skin crawlingly) misogynistic than anything in Snyder's filmography lmao.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2022 23:45
|
|
|
Just lmao at anyone who hates Amy Adams' take on Lois Lane. She rules, and she delivers those lines perfectly. She's a general's daughter, so she's gonna have military mouth.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 00:06
|
|
|
I liked the extremely melancholy, almost nihilistic take in Army of the Dead. It felt very much of its time just as Snyder's Dawn of the Dead felt of its time. Dawn of the Dead was about the morning of 9/11. Army of the Dead is about being 20 years into the war on terror. Horror, killing, armies of zombies, they're all just mundane and routine now. The heroes of the earlier, more exciting movie we got a glimpse of in the beginning have all had to go get real jobs, and those jobs are deeply depressing. And, of course, no one in power has learned anything and is still aggravating the situation. Also, Amy Adams is a loving treasure and her take on Lane was great. That guy's comment is deeply weird on every level. Luckily, he included that last line so you can completely dismiss him without engaging with him at all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 01:39
|
|
|
Robot Style posted:Yeah, the same dude also said that nobody with Superman's godlike power could ever be anything but happy about it, and wished there had been a scene where Clark broke a bully's arm as a child and had to choose whether he was going to "punish his tormentors or give humanity a pass". I apologize, I know you're quoting someone and that this is likely exactly the reason you're quoting them, but I can't stop myself from replying that both a scene where Clark decides whether or not to punish his tormentors and scenes of Lois being established as a tough journalist are IN THE MOVIE
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 01:43
|
|
|
Bogus Adventure posted:Just lmao at anyone who hates Amy Adams' take on Lois Lane. She rules, and she delivers those lines perfectly. She's a general's daughter, so she's gonna have military mouth. I hadn't thought of that, but it might explain why she's so comfortable giving General Sanwick the business.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 02:25
|
|
|
Detective No. 27 posted:I hadn't thought of that, but it might explain why she's so comfortable giving General Sanwick the business. Adams and Dana Delany are the only people who have ever really captured that rough and tumble edge of Lois Lane. And there's a nonzero chance that Lois has called Clark "Young, Dumb, and Full of Cum" for doing something boneheaded.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 04:11
|
|
|
How do yall square the whole existence of bonafide "crisis actors" in BvS? I love the movie, and I'm not saying this issue was the crux of its seemingly repulsive quality to lots of moviegoers, but seeing someone mention that phrase reminded me of the the ongoing Alex Jones trial and how that kind of conspiracy theory thinking can come off to a lot of people especially these days. I guess I can understand how, even having no preconceived notions about Snyder, someone could come away from BvS being pretty uncomfortable about what it's actually saying about modern crises and stuff. Like obviously in the movie it's a crisis actor being used purely to cover for CIA (and Lexcorp) actions, and all the deaths involved actually happened, which is very different from stuff like Jones's awful Sandy Hook stuff. Is Snyder just portraying a kind of exaggeratedly stupid version of the obvious reality that corporate America is glad to work with the "deep state" to protect all of their own interests? Because in BvS the crisis actor plot seems so obviously flimsy that it feels like it only works as a really snide portrayal of just how dumb America and its politics are. Martman fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Aug 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 08:00
|
|
|
I didn't like Army of the Dead either. The best thing about Snyder is beautiful shots, and Army had that weird camera thing going on which I just found visually annoying. Crisis actors are different when you're talking about American involvement on foreign soil and American tragedy on American soil caused by American laws.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 08:56
|
|
|
E: ignore figured it out
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 09:38
|
|
|
Darko posted:Crisis actors are different when you're talking about American involvement on foreign soil and American tragedy on American soil caused by American laws. This is where I get interested in Snyder's particular politics etc., because personally I think BvS is really a fascinating movie. Looking back, it's amazing that it was released before Trump was elected, because the entire thing has this paranoid fever-dream vibe that makes way more sense after the fact. I'm just trying to pin down exactly how the idea of a "crisis actor" even fits into modern parlance because it's very uncomfortable and weird.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 10:15
|
|
|
I’m on record as not being a fan of turning Ziri into a crisis actor in the Ultimate Edition, but all it really does is turn the point of the subplot from “Superman needs to carefully consider what his actions represent politically” to “you can’t loving trust billionaires.” Which are both true, I just think the former is more interesting.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 10:34
|
|
|
tbh I completely forgot that her being a crisis actor was not actually part of the theatrical cut. That's such a wild change lmao
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 10:37
|
|
|
I think a convoluted villain plot featuring fake witnesses and a secret hit squad fits the comic genre. Also the terrorist and villagers still all die. The conspiracy just blames Superman for it vs the lex hit squad or cia (was going to be a drone strike).
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 13:57
|
|
|
Pirate Jet posted:I’m on record as not being a fan of turning Ziri into a crisis actor in the Ultimate Edition, but all it really does is turn the point of the subplot from “Superman needs to carefully consider what his actions represent politically” to “you can’t loving trust billionaires.” Which are both true, I just think the former is more interesting. It's not even that. The one part that hits Clark is when she asks "who do you decide who lives" the rest of it is the talking heads assigning politics and messages to simple acts of saving people. The government wants to control who he saves and everyone will assign their own baggage to his actions. Martman posted:How do yall square the whole existence of bonafide "crisis actors" in BvS? I love the movie, and I'm not saying this issue was the crux of its seemingly repulsive quality to lots of moviegoers, but seeing someone mention that phrase reminded me of the the ongoing Alex Jones trial and how that kind of conspiracy theory thinking can come off to a lot of people especially these days. I guess I can understand how, even having no preconceived notions about Snyder, someone could come away from BvS being pretty uncomfortable about what it's actually saying about modern crises and stuff. It comes down to manufacturing consent. Create a crisis then sell a solution to that crisis, which involves furthering the interests of the rich and powerful. Lois was going into a situation to get a scoop and get the rebel's side of the story, the CIA screwed that up and Lex exploited it to create a situation in which he can hire a crisis actor to blame Superman. Notice that the CIA wasn't being blamed for the incident. They claimed neutrality but still had boots on the ground and a drone ready to kill everyone in the compound. The entire war on Iraq was pushed and sold on a lie. It was post-9/11 and people were angry. The US found a target and for the next two decades it became a quagmire, with the people who created that lie not facing any repercussions. Do you think the public would be primed for this kind of news and turn against Superman after the events of MoS where a few city blocks in Metropolis were annihilated? It's not about conspiracy theories so much about using tried and true tactics to get what you want. People like Lex in that universe write policy because that's how billionaires do it in the real world. Edit: Just want to note that we have started a war by having a crisis actor talk about atrocities being committed. The First Gulf War was such one. Video. Gusanos (Cuban exiles) shittalking Cuba because the revolution seized their plantations. White Latinos talking about the horrors of Venezuela but it turns out they're children of people who helped the US in its intervention efforts (or were parts of the old, fascist regime) or are just rich shitheads who care nothing about the indigenous and poor populations. Jimbot fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Aug 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 13:57
|
|
|
Jimbot posted:It's not even that. The one part that hits Clark is when she asks "who do you decide who lives" the rest of it is the talking heads assigning politics and messages to simple acts of saving people. The government wants to control who he saves and everyone will assign their own baggage to his actions. Minor point but the CIA didn't screw that up, Lex sabotaged the meeting. KGBeast knew "Jimmy" was a CIA agent and had a tracker on him and deliberately exposed him to cause a situation where Superman needed to intercede to save Lois Of course, if the CIA hadn't meddled in the first place, Lex wouldn't have been able to exploit their hamfisted attempt at tracking the rebels, so I guess it's a tomato tomato kind of a deal
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 14:22
|
|
|
That's what I mean. Lois touted that the US claimed neutrality in policy and principal before the general retorts. CIA is there against the US's public position and they still drag Superman for doing what they're doing. It's very much a CIA thing to do, but the US controls the CIA, they don't control Superman so it's not okay when he goes there to save someone.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 14:26
|
|
|
I didn't see her as a crisis actor in the Ultimate Cut, I thought she was a person of opportunity like Lex catching on to the handicapped guy for vandalizing the Superman monument that got taken advantage of. Like I doubt she wasn't for real devastated in the moment and the villagers are for real massacred.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 14:44
|
|
|
Neo Rasa posted:I didn't see her as a crisis actor in the Ultimate Cut, I thought she was a person of opportunity like Lex catching on to the handicapped guy for vandalizing the Superman monument that got taken advantage of. Like I doubt she wasn't for real devastated in the moment and the villagers are for real massacred. I believe Senator Finch says later in the movie, just before the congress bombing, that Ziri lives in America.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 14:51
|
|
|
Pirate Jet posted:I believe Senator Finch says later in the movie, just before the congress bombing, that Ziri lives in America. I thought that was just after the incident and that she's still a citizen of Nairomi (sp?). But on that same note, I wouldn't consider her a crisis actor because the crisis sure as hell absolutely happened. Her part was just to lie about who did it. When people go into crisis actor conspiracy poo poo they're saying there's a massive conspiracy to fake entire mass shootings and stuff. Good time to rewatch BVS Ultimate Cut I guess 
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 15:01
|
|
|
It's been awhile but doesn't Lex threaten her refugee status or something to keep her testifying?
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 15:07
|
|
|
MacheteZombie posted:It's been awhile but doesn't Lex threaten her refugee status or something to keep her testifying? That's where I'm mixed up, I thought like the massacre happens, Lex hooks her up (I'm assuming to get her to the US+money+whatever) to bear false witness.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 15:09
|
|
|
I paused my watch last night due to having to do other things but I'll keep posting thoughts on the film as I watch it. The 4k version is pretty dark (as are all HDR version) so I'm only watching it at night. Films super gorgeous in 4k, though. Highly recommend it if your TV is decent and has good HDR.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 15:15
|
|
|
Neo Rasa posted:Good time to rewatch BVS Ultimate Cut I guess KWaste cut is great if you haven't seen already
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 16:03
|
|
|
Flipgrip posted:KWaste cut is great if you haven't seen already I haven't and I would love to. Where do I see that?
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 16:15
|
|
|
I think I was also getting confused about whether Ziri was actually there (or anywhere near the incident) to begin with. But, fair point that either way it doesn't turn it into real "conspiracy theory" stuff.quote:Edit: Just want to note that we have started a war by having a crisis actor talk about atrocities being committed. The First Gulf War was such one. Video. Gusanos (Cuban exiles) shittalking Cuba because the revolution seized their plantations. White Latinos talking about the horrors of Venezuela but it turns out they're children of people who helped the US in its intervention efforts (or were parts of the old, fascist regime) or are just rich shitheads who care nothing about the indigenous and poor populations.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 20:23
|
|
|
I should have used a different term. I forgot that the Alex Jones trial was going on and he used that word a ton and its meaning taking on more negative connotations. But yeah, the only reason why that lady is there is to build a case against Superman so Lex can get his import license for kryptonite. The Senator wasn't buying (but her colleagues were, hence the jolly rancher scene of the guy literally eating out of the hand of the billionaire). So more extreme measures were taken.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 20:32
|
|
|
Flipgrip posted:KWaste cut is great if you haven't seen already Haven't finished it yet but so far you're right, it is!
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 21:49
|
|
|
Yeah I still have mine on my Plex I'm pretty sure. Now that I know the process they used
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 22:02
|
|
|
When was that original outline of JL 2+3 set up? Before or after Avengers IW / Endgame? I'm probably very late to that discussion but I was thinking about how similar some of the beats were. Bad guy wins at first, heroes use time travel to fix things, billionaire hero sacrifices himself to save the world...
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 23:25
|
|
|
Roman posted:When was that original outline of JL 2+3 set up? Before or after Avengers IW / Endgame? I'm probably very late to that discussion but I was thinking about how similar some of the beats were. Bad guy wins at first, heroes use time travel to fix things, billionaire hero sacrifices himself to save the world... Very before. If they stuck to their original timeline, the entire trilogy would have been done before Endgame.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 23:26
|
|
|
Martman posted:That's fair, and I tried to acknowledge that fact, but also I will admit I'm pretty ignorant of a lot of modern history. My point is, the first time I've ever even heard that term is from Alex Jones's insane poo poo; I understand that he didn't invent the concept of media disinformation, but the particular image of "random lady who was paid to be on TV to do propaganda, even if a cursory journalistic effort should reveal the fraud" is weird to me. Like, is that something that has ever actually happened? Or is it just an exaggerated version of real propaganda. remember the infamous story leading up to the iraq war, where saddam's soldiers were tearing babies out of incubators and leaving them to die on the hospital floors? a story delivered by a fifteen year old girl? a story that was corroborated by amnesty international? well, it was fake. it even goes along with the cursory journalistic effort thing: the witness 'nayirah' was actually the daughter of kuwaiti ambassador to the united states. so, yeah, it happens and someone like alex jones helps the powers-that-be by associating the idea with crazy people.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 23:26
|
|
|
Horizon Burning posted:remember the infamous story leading up to the iraq war, where saddam's soldiers were tearing babies out of incubators and leaving them to die on the hospital floors? a story delivered by a fifteen year old girl? a story that was corroborated by amnesty international? well, it was fake. it even goes along with the cursory journalistic effort thing: the witness 'nayirah' was actually the daughter of kuwaiti ambassador to the united states. so, yeah, it happens and someone like alex jones helps the powers-that-be by associating the idea with crazy people.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 23:41
|
|
|
Burkion posted:Very before. They would have beat Marvel at Endgame and had a billion dollar movie featuring a Chinese superhero before Shang Chi.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 23:46
|
|
|
Horizon Burning posted:remember the infamous story leading up to the iraq war, where saddam's soldiers were tearing babies out of incubators and leaving them to die on the hospital floors? a story delivered by a fifteen year old girl? a story that was corroborated by amnesty international? well, it was fake. it even goes along with the cursory journalistic effort thing: the witness 'nayirah' was actually the daughter of kuwaiti ambassador to the united states. so, yeah, it happens and someone like alex jones helps the powers-that-be by associating the idea with crazy people. And the "crisis actor" (sic) for Iraq War 2: This Time It's An Actual War Crime, was bootlicker and disgusting moral coward Colin Powell, of Mỹ Lai whitewashing fame, with his faked-up cartoons of we-can't-prove-they-exist-but-if-they-did-exist-here's-what-they'd-look-like "mobile weapons labs" or some poo poo. Anyway, enough of this. Rebel Moon when?
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2022 23:47
|
|
|
Roman posted:When was that original outline of JL 2+3 set up? Before or after Avengers IW / Endgame? I'm probably very late to that discussion but I was thinking about how similar some of the beats were. Bad guy wins at first, heroes use time travel to fix things, billionaire hero sacrifices himself to save the world... It would have been some time during the production of BvS (so 2015 or earlier), since the scene with Flash coming back in time with his post-apocalyptic armor would have been expanded on in the JL sequels. The idea was that when the League came up with the idea to use time travel to solve things, they ran into the problem that time travel doesn't necessarily mean space travel, and unless they were very careful about their target date, Flash would most likely just end up floating in space since they needed to hit the same spot in Earth's orbit. So Cyborg calculated two potential times when Earth would be in the same place in both times and Bruce would be close by enough to hear Flash's message. Bruce remembers Flash's visit from BvS, and tells them to choose the other date because obviously the first one didn't work.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2022 00:26
|
|
|
And in choosing the second date Batman is able to save the day and prevent the Dark Future, at the cost of his life. Barry also gets town apart by the Speed Force/Cosmic Treadmill/location flux but it doesn't matter since Bad Future averted.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2022 02:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 19:58 |
|
|
I will forever argue to my grave that unless something tops it, WB missing the opportunity to have landed this saga before 2020 is the biggest studio blunder in history. I only say this because its not just the fact they didnt do it, its the near decade they have been spending and spending to fix it with not much to show for it financially and hinging on a lot of risky properties to sustain it in the near future. Thats including all of this during global pandemic which they could have avoided and then releasing the finished version of the very movie that sprung the leak and it ended up being their most relevant film since 2018. And we are still a year away from even knowing if they can start to salvage it. Its a runaway train and everyone is afraid to pull the brake. AccountSupervisor fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Aug 6, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2022 03:02
|
|
