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General Battuta posted:No, it was not, I'm sorry, I will never make jokes again anyway let's move on Roadside Picnic is $3 on Amazon today: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0087GJ5WI (it's the newer translation, if that matters to people - I personally do not think it's a bad translation at all and prefer it to the older one, but it seems worth mentioning.)
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Aug 8, 2022 16:19
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Leng posted:...The Poppy War... I liked The Poppy War but it has lots of structural problems (some you pointed out) and the series gets worse as it goes, the third book is badly paced with an outcome that is telegraphed hundreds of pages before it finally happens. There are also a bunch of breadcrumbs dropped that end up not paying off, and she delights in having Rin make the dumbest decisions possible at every turn. Which while I've known people like that in real life, sometimes you want to see characters learn. It seems like despite having an outline most of story was done in a pantser style (especially book 3). I think part of the setup to get into the school took to long, the school session was okay though not enough pantheon stuff (some may have been held back because they go further into it in later books), but the school doesn't seem to matter later, it's not thematically tied into anything and seems an artifact of growing up reading Harry Potter and related books, then enact twist that this isn't YA. The grimdark functions as an antidote to a bunch of twee fantasy where characters just solve problems by killing a few bad guys, this is much more akin to actual warfare and the problems that entails. The heavy borrowing from Imperial Japan was interesting but having read The Rape of Nanking the shock factor wasn't as strong for me. Once I saw what she was going for it made sense that it had to be gritty to fit in all the awful real life stuff that happened. A majority of the readers are like half my age so many had not heard of the Japanese war crimes Kuang's new book drops this month and I'll probably check it out, it does sound similar to a lot of things that are getting releases lately so she'll need to do something unique with the translation gimmick to make it stand out. Xotl posted:At the same time, I tend to feel SF has a bit of a history problem anyways: there's a lot of foundational stuff that seems to be rapidly disappearing into history, and while some of that is clunky stuff that's logically becoming just a footnote, plenty more is worth a read to this day. The problem is there is just too drat much media, sometimes you got to focus and organize. I'm more chaotic, but also that let's me bumble into a lot of things that no one has watched/talked about (and also see a lot of duds, but I've become very surgical in stopping reading/watching something that sucks) In high school we had a science fiction class and the teacher tried to give a sweeping overview of the history of science fiction through the reading, which meant we read ERB, Asimov, Clarke, van Vogt (Slan), and a bunch of short stories, but due to time constraints that still meant skipping a ton and not getting near anything modern. One thing I've seen is for lists is people like to go chronological, but if you haven't read/watched things from 50+ years earlier, it might be too off to be interesting. It's often best to skip back by a decade or two instead of going full time machine unless you are really motivated and want to read H.G. Wells's The Time Machine. Which is good and you should read it. Xotl posted:James Tiptree Jr. - Like Knight, this is another author whose rep entirely rests on her short story output, with her novels being largely passed over. Too many good stories to list: just get the Her Smoke Rose Up Forever anthology. Perhaps the most well respected today of the authors I've listed here, and I think the one most likely to survive. As an aside I think novellas are back but in ebook form as a lot of SF series that are self-published are basically a series of 4-6 novellas instead of full novels. Amazon's keeps attempting to steal Royal Road's lunch but I think they still have the serialized fiction route
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Aug 8, 2022 20:59
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In case anyone hasn't seen it, it's worth having a little chuckle at Robert Silverberg being absolutely goddamn certain that no woman could possibly write like James Tiptree Jr. To be fair to him he was in the middle of a long introduction where he was rhapsodically delighted by her writing but it's still kinda funny.Intro to Warm Worlds and Otherwise posted:It has been suggested that Tiptree is female, a theory that I find absurd, for there is to me something ineluctably masculine about Tiptree’s writing. I don’t think the novels of Jane Austen could have been written by a man nor the stories of Ernest Hemingway by a woman, and in the same way I believe the author of the James Tiptree stories is male.
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Aug 8, 2022 21:34
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General Battuta posted:No, it was not, I'm sorry, I will never make jokes again
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Aug 8, 2022 21:51
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Bang that story out and I will read it for you free gratis in my best Duke Nukem voice from my sauna-like, telephone booth-sized recording studio. I can also do a passable E.B Farnum if you write in a hick homozog who flies a crop duster and figures out what chemtrails do. ^^^that's a Deadwood reference MartingaleJack fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Aug 8, 2022 |
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Aug 8, 2022 22:30
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Life After Life (Todd Family #1) by Kate Atkinson - $3.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008TUQ60G/ A God in Ruins (Todd Family #2) by Kate Atkinson - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NERQQXG/ The Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084FY1NXB/ I, Robot by Isaac Asimov - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FC1PW0/ Nightwings by Robert Silverberg - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CHW661Q/ Born with the Dead by Robert Silverberg - $0.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083H65T6Z/
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Aug 8, 2022 23:10
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MartingaleJack posted:Bang that story out and I will read it for you free gratis in my best Duke Nukem voice from my sauna-like, telephone booth-sized recording studio. I can also do a passable E.B Farnum if you write in a hick homozog who flies a crop duster and figures out what chemtrails do. I'm sorry, I can't write that story now that I know it's based on a hateful conspiracy theory. I tried to write today but all that come out of me was this poem about my botched circumcision. All of this really happened to me. circumcised age thirty five, daikatana milah knives, cut my dick up like bryan cranston in drive white jacket, scorpion back it, foreskin shredded like flak hit exsanguinating from glans, mohel got bad hands, "my god im so sorry", it's too late i'm unmanned reduced to a wax stump, induced to get rear end pumped, cant cum from the front cause i got a gristly scar lump meant to convert to the tribe, now masturbation's proscribed, zero sense in my pipeline, dakota access denied bleeding wont stop! rabbis intervene - hebrew orbital laser cauterizing it clean call my dick temple prime cause its gettin the nod. only now do i realize — GDI offends god! you cant kill the messiah! kane enters left. "call me nehemiah, i'll rebuild what was cleft" peace through technology! reverse the chronology, undo the mistake that caused this pathology it's done, i'm rehung, i'll name my first son tiberian! but now the rabbis wont have me, i dont meet their criterion seudet mitzvah aborted, my conversion is thwarted. that red scorpion flag has em all disconcerted peace through power
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Aug 8, 2022 23:47
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Anyway um I finished the last Terra Ignota book! And I thought it was all right! But maybe a little "hopepunk" for me. Also I like how the outcome is a horrifying dystopia if you don't buy that JEDD actually is an omnibenevolent being from another universe deprived of his powers by incarnation here, and is in fact, instead, just a very weird guy
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Aug 8, 2022 23:50
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It's best not to think about Madame's pride in raising "an alien" I was very charmed by the creation of the new nation-strat, Kith, though.
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Aug 9, 2022 00:09
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Kazzah posted:It's best not to think about Madame's pride in raising "an alien" now kith
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Aug 9, 2022 00:12
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I appreciate that the professor of the class I took in science fiction introduced me to James Tiptree and J.G. Ballard, yet am still unable to process the fact that she had never once heard the term "space opera" before I mentioned it to her.
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Aug 9, 2022 01:20
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I clicked the link for ministry of the future, and while there are a shitton of reviews, there is nothing that tells you the plot other than a few mentions of climate change.
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Aug 9, 2022 01:55
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:I clicked the link for ministry of the future, and while there are a shitton of reviews, there is nothing that tells you the plot other than a few mentions of climate change. There's not really one plot. It mostly kinda follows several notable people for a while after a heat wave kills like 15 million people in India. If you've read World War Z, it's vaguely like that, except the climate instead of zombies.
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Aug 9, 2022 02:52
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Tars Tarkas posted:I I can't tell you how many times I've been talking about movies with people who haven't watched anything older than them. There are even camps that actively refuse to watch/read older stuff and get mad when you suggest watching/reading the sources current directors and authors are referencing. This seems most prevalent in adult fans of youth-centered media The other problem is that anything older than X years has been visited by some combination of the sexism/racism/homophobia/ciscentrism fairy, making it hard to read in tyol 2022. I couldn’t read Lensman in 2002, for example. I know you alluded to this but it’s a significant issue even for the “good stuff”.
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Aug 9, 2022 03:56
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General Battuta posted:I'm sorry, I can't write that story now that I know it's based on a hateful conspiracy theory. I tried to write today but all that come out of me was this poem about my botched circumcision. All of this really happened to me. I'm recording this tomorrow, I will have you know. But only if the kids are out of the house because I have to belt it out Killer Mike from Run The Jewels. MartingaleJack fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Aug 9, 2022 |
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Aug 9, 2022 04:16
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Tars Tarkas posted:I liked The Poppy War but it has lots of structural problems (some you pointed out) and the series gets worse as it goes, the third book is badly paced with an outcome that is telegraphed hundreds of pages before it finally happens. There are also a bunch of breadcrumbs dropped that end up not paying off, and she delights in having Rin make the dumbest decisions possible at every turn. Which while I've known people like that in real life, sometimes you want to see characters learn. It seems like despite having an outline most of story was done in a pantser style (especially book 3). I think part of the setup to get into the school took to long, the school session was okay though not enough pantheon stuff (some may have been held back because they go further into it in later books), but the school doesn't seem to matter later, it's not thematically tied into anything and seems an artifact of growing up reading Harry Potter and related books, then enact twist that this isn't YA. The grimdark functions as an antidote to a bunch of twee fantasy where characters just solve problems by killing a few bad guys, this is much more akin to actual warfare and the problems that entails. The heavy borrowing from Imperial Japan was interesting but having read The Rape of Nanking the shock factor wasn't as strong for me. Once I saw what she was going for it made sense that it had to be gritty to fit in all the awful real life stuff that happened. A majority of the readers are like half my age so many had not heard of the Japanese war crimes I tapped out of this book near the end of the first section because I thought it was just a ho-hum YA magic school story. Not that I would necessarily have enjoyed the grimdark that much more, but it's pretty funny that the author buried the lede so deep.
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Aug 9, 2022 05:55
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I mean it's weird because others are right, it does put some grimdark stuff upfront, it's just the tone of the whole Sinegard section feels YA-esque in ways I really struggle to pin down, it's something about the language and motifs I think? Then it very suddenly doesn't, it's full-bore grimdark.
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Aug 9, 2022 06:12
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Young fantasy authors shoukd be legally forbidden from writing magical scools into their scenarios, they just can't help themselves
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Aug 9, 2022 07:38
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i dig the circumsicion rap
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Aug 9, 2022 07:54
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General Battuta posted:I'm sorry, I can't write that story now that I know it's based on a hateful conspiracy theory. I tried to write today but all that come out of me was this poem about my botched circumcision. All of this really happened to me. Can you autograph this? I wish to display it prominently in my home.
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Aug 9, 2022 09:03
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:I mean it's weird because others are right, it does put some grimdark stuff upfront, it's just the tone of the whole Sinegard section feels YA-esque in ways I really struggle to pin down, it's something about the language and motifs I think? Then it very suddenly doesn't, it's full-bore grimdark. Yeah, these days there isn't that much that's off-limits for YA in terms of content. But the way it's framed is different. I think in YA there is more focus on how the violence affects the characters (usually the protagonist), how they overcome trauma, etc. Whereas in GRRM style grimdark fantasy, the violence exists mainly to reflect tone and setting: "This is a dark, realistic world so I have to show some people getting flayed or whatever". Sailor Viy fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Aug 9, 2022 |
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Aug 9, 2022 09:18
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ulmont posted:The other problem is that anything older than X years has been visited by some combination of the sexism/racism/homophobia/ciscentrism fairy, making it hard to read in tyol 2022. I couldn’t read Lensman in 2002, for example. I know you alluded to this but it’s a significant issue even for the “good stuff”. From a films/TV perspective this is also true, but another issue there is that all the big streaming services have bucketloads of stuff made in the last twenty years or so, but less and less going back further than that. For anything made prior to 1970 you can watch five musicals and that's about it. If you want to watch six Sharknado films you can, but it'll cost you £7 to watch The Third Man.
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Aug 9, 2022 09:42
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Pirate it all.
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Aug 9, 2022 09:48
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Years ago I read a book that I'm pretty sure I heard about through this thread but now I can't remember the title or author. It involved someone on Earth manifesting super powers every year, each time twice as powerful as the previous one. Anyone know it?
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Aug 9, 2022 10:46
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eszett engma posted:Years ago I read a book that I'm pretty sure I heard about through this thread but now I can't remember the title or author. It involved someone on Earth manifesting super powers every year, each time twice as powerful as the previous one. Anyone know it? qntm's fine structure
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Aug 9, 2022 10:52
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Tars Tarkas posted:It seems like despite having an outline most of story was done in a pantser style (especially book 3). Seriously if she had yanked out the Sinegard stuff and released it as a YA prequel, it would have been totally fine. I was trying to think of how you could fix the tonal promises of the book and in this case, I really think "prologue", from a Vipress POV maybe; or super young Rin, running from the last Poppy War, in a location that's clearly Speer; or even a Mugen POV of the aftermath of the destruction of Speer that ends on young Altan and others getting locked up as a research subject in the lab would have been good. Then weave in way more of the shamanistic stuff throughout the early parts of the book, particularly since Tikany still believes in shamans and also there's been a bunch of Cike who were recently locked away within living memory. It doesn't have to be super in your face or anything, but just some hints of the graphic violence to come would have helped a lot. It would have better foreshadowed some of the plot twists too. These fixes aren't hard to do either! (Seriously, once the book started leaning hard into "omg you're a Speerly too!" I struggled to take it seriously.) Sailor Viy posted:I tapped out of this book near the end of the first section because I thought it was just a ho-hum YA magic school story. Not that I would necessarily have enjoyed the grimdark that much more, but it's pretty funny that the author buried the lede so deep. The military academy bit was probably the best written part of the book imo. It was so plodding along very predictably but at least character arcs were being set up. And it all gets abandoned. Part II and Part III had much weaker character writing. SurreptitiousMuffin posted:I mean it's weird because others are right, it does put some grimdark stuff upfront, it's just the tone of the whole Sinegard section feels YA-esque in ways I really struggle to pin down, it's something about the language and motifs I think? Then it very suddenly doesn't, it's full-bore grimdark. I put it down to the quippy dialogue style, the lack of subtext, and also because of how emotionally immature Rin's narration comes across. She starts out 14 and ends the book 19. 3 of those years are at Sinegard. Yet there is no sense of maturation in her introspection and there really should be, because there's a world of difference between a 14-year-old, a 17-year-old and a 19-year-old. Tars Tarkas posted:The heavy borrowing from Imperial Japan was interesting I was kind of annoyed by how flatly that was portrayed, and also the transplanting of the opium smuggling motives from not-Britain to not-Japan. Not that I'm saying every book has to be super nuanced, but this one really tried to do too much all at once. Tars Tarkas posted:As an aside I think novellas are back but in ebook form as a lot of SF series that are self-published are basically a series of 4-6 novellas instead of full novels. Amazon's keeps attempting to steal Royal Road's lunch but I think they still have the serialized fiction route Hop over to the romance side of the US Kindle store; romance authors are pumping out 15k installments of serials on a weekly basis and selling each one for $2.99-$3.99  which is way better than what you'd get on Vella and for 95% of the web serial authors on Royal Road who don't make more than monthly double digits on their Patreons despite cranking out 5x episodes a week.The only fantasy author (straight fantasy, not fantasy romance) I've seen doing this is Sarah K.L. Wilson who has a couple of the serials: Phoenix Heart - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P3T6H9L Dragon School - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H13392P I haven't read any of books, I just thought what Wilson was doing from a business perspective was interesting. General Battuta posted:I tried to write today but all that come out of me was this poem about my botched circumcision. All of this really happened to me. MartingaleJack posted:I'm recording this tomorrow, I will have you know. But only if the kids are out of the house because I have to belt it out Killer Mike from Run The Jewels. https://youtu.be/S5QYeOJI3lk
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Aug 9, 2022 13:02
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Tars Tarkas posted:One thing I've seen is for lists is people like to go chronological, but if you haven't read/watched things from 50+ years earlier, it might be too off to be interesting. It's often best to skip back by a decade or two instead of going full time machine unless you are really motivated and want to read H.G. Wells's The Time Machine. Which is good and you should read it. I think you could safely go back to the 1960s and have a reasonable semblance of both modern style and subject matter, though some of the social elements are still going to be painful if you're sensitive to that. The New Wave arriving in the mid to late 60s throws things off a bit, in that you get a lot of very heavy-handed stylistic experiments as people try to shake things up (but also some great stuff), but it gets assimilated into the mainstream by the mid 70s with people on either side of the divide being less conscious about it and SF is the better for it. quote:As an aside I think novellas are back but in ebook form as a lot of SF series that are self-published are basically a series of 4-6 novellas instead of full novels. Amazon's keeps attempting to steal Royal Road's lunch but I think they still have the serialized fiction route I know Tor has recently made a push to specifically release novellas, which has been nice; I have to admit to really preferring short to mid-length fiction over modern doorstopper sizing, probably an artifact of a lot of my foundational reading being so much older fiction that came out in such small page counts. I don't think Tor themselves have a nice list of them all, but this fellow over on reddit has compiled them: https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/owjpi2/tor_novellas_list/
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Aug 9, 2022 13:16
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General Battuta posted:This literal game exists and was my childhood? Except you do have to do adventure game bullshit too. Hell yes, someone other than me who remembers Rama. I played the poo poo out of that back in the day. You'd better believe I looked at the close-up 3d view of every single item and asked Puck for his opinion on it, too. I replayed it recently in dosbox and a lot of it still holds up really well. It does get kind of shaky towards the end; I think the puzzles in the octospider lair aren't as well designed, and the endgame time limit has some really nasty bugs in it, like one puzzle that involves moving sliders to match colours where every notch you move a slider by also subtracts five minutes (!) from your remaining time.
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Aug 9, 2022 13:52
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Around the time it came out, I read a great critical essay about the use of real history and specifically the Nanjing Massacre in the Poppy War, but for the life of me I can't find it.
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Aug 9, 2022 13:56
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ToxicFrog posted:one puzzle that involves moving sliders to match colours where every notch you move a slider by also subtracts five minutes (!) from your remaining time. 
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Aug 9, 2022 14:11
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ToxicFrog posted:Hell yes, someone other than me who remembers Rama. I played the poo poo out of that back in the day. You'd better believe I looked at the close-up 3d view of every single item and asked Puck for his opinion on it, too. I could never get past the Pattern puzzle in the Nine Princes in Amber game.
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Aug 9, 2022 14:39
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StrixNebulosa posted:To Ride Hell's Chasm, by contrast, is outstanding top to bottom, it has a happy/satisfying ending, and it's a standalone! I easily highly recommend digging into it! Thanks for recommending this, I just finished it. Took me a bit to get used to Janny Wurts' prose but once I did it was an easy read. I have some issues with the ending: Felt a bit rushed, and I wish we could have seen more from the group hiding out in the tower at the end. Also the brief romantic stuff felt unnecessary but it was so minor I don't really mind. But it was a really good straightfoward fantasy book, which was what I wanted. Also nice to have so many characters who are just good people trying their best  .I want to read more of Janny Wurts' stuff but I'm not really ready to start a 14 book series or however long her Wars of Light and Shadow series is.
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Aug 9, 2022 16:18
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I am almost all the way through book six of the Wheel of Time on my first re-read in almost 20 years. Current mood: jesus loving christ there isn't a likable character in the entire goddamn series, they all deserve each other and I hope The Pattern burns in all fairness Rand is still somewhat tolerable if only because he's the only one that knows he's insane I really wanted to make it to the brando sando volumes but I'm dying here folks.
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Aug 9, 2022 17:51
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ulmont posted:The other problem is that anything older than X years has been visited by some combination of the sexism/racism/homophobia/ciscentrism fairy, making it hard to read in tyol 2022. I couldn’t read Lensman in 2002, for example. I know you alluded to this but it’s a significant issue even for the “good stuff”. Not anything older than X years, but a lot of it, and disproportionately in "pulpier" fiction, for some reason. Why this should be so is an interesting question. The introduction to Robin Buss's Penguin translation of The Count of Monte Cristo, which discusses the book in the context of the emergence of the distinction between "popular" and "literary" novels and makes a case for the value of "popular" literature to an extent, acknowledges that "the popular novel tends to reinforce rather than to challenge prejudices," though of course it doesn't always do so. Buss seems to see this as the result of the reliance on stereotypes as shortcuts to quickly establish character and setting. But probably a bigger part of it is that European and Northern-US "literary" novelists in the late 19th and early 20th centuries didn't have to confront "the Other" as directly as writers of "adventure" fiction did. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Aug 9, 2022 |
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Aug 9, 2022 18:30
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Silver2195 posted:Not anything older than X years, but a lot of it, and disproportionately in "pulpier" fiction, for some reason. Why this should be so is an interesting question. I have always felt that our culture has a group of story archetypes that, through design or natural progress, are repeated and evolve from generation to generation to meet the current demands of the zeitgeist. The two easiest ones to examine, and the ones that had the most sales potential, seem to be the can the coming of age and the hero/heroine's journey structure. These have the most sales potential because they can reach the broadest audience, but they don't become classics unless they twist the structure into a shape that seems relevant to the current zeitgeist. For example, the rise of anti-hero stories in the 80's. They follow the hero's journey structure with an undercurrent of distrust in authority. I think a novel can be a breakout hit and "literary" at the same time if it is bold enough and relevant enough. Wish I had more time to do a longer examination, but I have to get back to moving boxes around my 100+ F garage so the kids can have a pool party. This post probably contained elements of heat stroke.
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Aug 9, 2022 19:27
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Spime Wrangler posted:I am almost all the way through book six of the Wheel of Time on my first re-read in almost 20 years. One of the most grating things about his writing is that his prose sounds like it was made via a soundboard. He uses the same phrasing for things, the same sorts of descriptions of things, over and over and over. It really wears on a binge read. I got through 4.5 before just giving up. I may go back. Somewhat related: You guys know that trope where it's like "John heard inhuman screaming, but he soon realized the screams were coming from him". I swear to loving god it's in literally half of the books I've read and I am 100 percent sure it's not possible to be screaming like that and not realize it. I get they're trying to highlight the disassociation associated with intense trauma, but find a new cliche
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Aug 9, 2022 19:48
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I havent gotten into Discworld before but i just read Guards Guards and loved it. Have had Small Gods recommended, where else to keep reading?
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Aug 9, 2022 19:59
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StashAugustine posted:I havent gotten into Discworld before but i just read Guards Guards and loved it. Have had Small Gods recommended, where else to keep reading? Read the rest of the guards books in order. https://imgur.com/t/terry pratchett/DFj6x
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Aug 9, 2022 20:01
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zoux posted:Somewhat related: You guys know that trope where it's like "John heard inhuman screaming, but he soon realized the screams were coming from him". I swear to loving god it's in literally half of the books I've read and I am 100 percent sure it's not possible to be screaming like that and not realize it. I get they're trying to highlight the disassociation associated with intense trauma, but find a new cliche The one time I dissociated while screaming I realized it, but was like, “Oh hey, you’re gonna do that now, body?” (Carefully assess situation and realize it’s quite horrific actually.) “Ok. I guess this is a proportionate response. Carry on then.”  So yeah, there’s a lot more that you can do with that. I’m guessing most writers can’t mine their personal experience, so they go with what they’ve read countless times before. It’s also real obvious for drug experiences, when the author’s never been on whatever drugs and they go for the real cliche poo poo like “dude thought he was an orange” Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Aug 9, 2022 |
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Aug 9, 2022 20:45
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zoux posted:One of the most grating things about his writing is that his prose sounds like it was made via a soundboard. He uses the same phrasing for things, the same sorts of descriptions of things, over and over and over. It really wears on a binge read. I got through 4.5 before just giving up. I may go back. you sound like of those hussies with a plunging neckline who could use her bottom striped!!
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Aug 9, 2022 21:17
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