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https://twitter.com/Kotaku/status/1559579769909411841 That's a very uuuuuuuuh image choice there Kotaku. So I guess kotaku.jpg here.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:04
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I'unno, it conveys something without going real dark, I feel like the image is silly to fuss over on a legit story that I'm glad they covered. Nintendo has been notably skating under the radar despite some real crap workplace setups on both sides of the pond.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:08
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Oh for sure, very glad they've done the story, I guess the image just kinda hit me weird.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:18
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Worth noting that this isn't really 'at nintendo of america.' quote:Hannah screenshotted the sexual comments and attempted to escalate the situation with Aerotek, the staffing company she was contracted under quote:This discrepancy can be explained by the fact that many Nintendo games were not tested by staff who were classified as Nintendo employees. They were employees who worked under the contracting company Aerotek. Of course, NoA turning a blind eye to a company it contracts out to being a shady place to work for is bad, I'm not defending them at all, but it's important distinction. There is mention of one employee who's full time at NoA, though.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:33
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have you ever worked for one of these staffing companies because you straight up work for the parent company its just your payment is handled through the third party contractor. this is nintendo plain and simple. in this setup you literally sit in their org chart. you report to the company's managers.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:37
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anime was right posted:have you ever worked for one of these staffing companies because you straight up work for the parent company its just your payment is handled through the third party contractor. this is nintendo plain and simple.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:38
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Endorph posted:im not disputing that at all? nintendo holds a ton of responsibility here. they hold all the responsibility.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:39
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anime was right posted:they hold all the responsibility. like to clarify, the detail that most of these incidents happened at a subcontractor is relevant to the power dynamics at play here, as the article mentions several times. the headline leaves that detail out, and i felt it was important enough that it should be mentioned. this is not a defense of nintendo. Endorph fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 18:40
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Endorph posted:Yes. I'm not sure why you think I'm trying to say nintendo is blameless Endorph posted:Worth noting that this isn't really 'at nintendo of america.' I have no idea how anyone could think you're saying this isn't Nintendo's fault
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Aug 16, 2022 18:45
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Rarity posted:I have no idea how anyone could think you're saying this isn't Nintendo's fault
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Aug 16, 2022 18:47
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Endorph posted:Worth noting that this isn't really 'at nintendo of america.' no the noa employed guy who harrassed her and got off scot free is very much nintendo of america. they are also absolutely accountable for how contract workers are treated as well as how the contractor they choose behaves. Bentai posted:https://twitter.com/Kotaku/status/1559579769909411841 oh yes very epic the picture is the problem !! thanky ou!!
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Aug 16, 2022 18:50
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Stux posted:no the noa employed guy who harrassed her and got off scot free is very much nintendo of america. they are also absolutely accountable for how contract workers are treated as well as how the contractor they choose behaves.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:51
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yeah, as the article points out, this is the same contractor that has come up in basically every recent labor complaint against NoA - union busting, harassment, intentional churn to keep anyone from triggering eligibility for full time work, etc. this isn't some unknown third party, this is someone they have used and continue to use because it lets them pretend to be shocked, shocked at all the gambling going on here. it's important to acknowledge the shell game going on, as long as it's clear that's all it is.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:56
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given how poorly the workers there are treated, i'd imagine they're also used because of low labor costs. i don't think that's the intent of the post but using subcontractors isn't something you do to give yourself deniability or something.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:58
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Endorph posted:Worth noting that this isn't really 'at nintendo of america.' Disclaimer because it's a tense topic: I'm just giving information to clarify why it's not so divided between NOA and the contractors. With this situation, the contract employees work onsite and under NOA personnel. The staffing companies don't do much past placement of workers and taking instructions from NOA on employee actions (like firing). Not absolving guilt from the staffing companies, but Nintendo does have more control over the contractors than one would assume from hearing 'contractor'. Feels Villeneuve posted:given how poorly the workers there are treated, i'd imagine they're also used because of low labor costs. Both are true in the industry! Contractors are usually on limited-time contracts (a year or less) with mandated month-long breaks between contracts to maintain a legal distance from the contractors being considered "employees" (thus being able to claim benefits). The contracting companies also maintain a culpability if something wrong does happen so companies can shift any issues that occur onto them. Dieting Hippo fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 19:53
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Feels Villeneuve posted:given how poorly the workers there are treated, i'd imagine they're also used because of low labor costs. The point of contracting is that it lets you treat workers as completely disposable. They are obligated to do the work, and you have no obligations (other than paycheck) to them.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:03
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there was an article a few months ago about how noa aggressively dangles the full time employment carrot over contractors and generally treats them all like garbage
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Aug 16, 2022 20:04
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i believe employers are still liable if a FTE manager violates harassment law against a contract employee (or in cases where the company directs a staffing agency to remove an employee for discriminatory reasons) i think there may be confusion here between "contractors" as in people who are temp workers paid by a staffing agency rather than NOA directly, and "contractors" as in the practice of designating employees as "independent contractors" who genuinely have almost no employment protections
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Aug 16, 2022 20:24
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that said idk how much of this is really worthwhile to hash out without knowing like, the literal org chart on what was happening
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Aug 16, 2022 20:27
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Feels Villeneuve posted:i believe employers are still liable if a FTE manager violates harassment law against a contract employee (or in cases where the company directs a staffing agency to remove an employee for discriminatory reasons) Yes, it does not help that there exist multiple different forms of "contracting" when it comes to employees. There are also contractors that are full time, benefitted employees of a contracted company that aren't affiliated with the contracting entity. Our local power plant uses/used contracted workers for overnight safety monitoring, and they were themselves full time employees, just not of the plant
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Aug 16, 2022 20:28
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Feels Villeneuve posted:that said idk how much of this is really worthwhile to hash out without knowing like, the literal org chart on what was happening With this setup you'll have the contractors as the general work force performing testing, with FTEs in management in the department and at least one FTE on each team acting as a lead for the group performing tasks like interacting with developers or determining assignments for the contractors. Occasionally a contractor will also be designated a "lead" as well but this is at a much lower pay rate than what an FTE will earn, and will still be below the FTE on that team. Also on terminology, "contracting" here does refer to permatemps that work almost-year-long contracts with month-long breaks between contracts. They are not paid nearly as well as other "contractors/consultants" that are FTEs of the staffing company they belong to.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:30
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Magmarashi posted:There are also contractors that are full time, benefitted employees of a contracted company that aren't affiliated with the contracting entity. Our local power plant uses/used contracted workers for overnight safety monitoring, and they were themselves full time employees, just not of the plant yeah there are (relatively) reputable staffing companies where the contractors are FTEs for the staffing company, but presumably the treatment and the prevalence of practices like deliberately limiting hours/inducing churn to not have to pay health benefits get more common the cheaper the contract gets
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Aug 16, 2022 20:34
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at my last job i actually originally got hired through aerotek because we have a local office here (well. had. they split, as the article mentions, so now there's three different names in-town instead of the one location), and the time i spent there waiting for waiting for interviews or people to come process me soured me somewhat on the place, just because it had a huge veneer of like.... almost preying on desperation, i guess? they actually were somewhat annoyed by the fact i was pretty well qualified for a lot of the jobs i was trying to apply for (including a triple digit typing speed) and they tried to talk me down from the place i ended up working at (which made me permanent within like three months so lol wonder why they didn't want me getting that job). Finding out about all the labor violations and that they kinda shrugged off one of their workers coming to them with harrassment allegations doesn't surprise me in the slightest; it obviously doesn't absolve NoA whatsoever, both are culpable here but for different reasons.
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Aug 16, 2022 21:57
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the allegations specifically mention full time managers harassing contract workers which NOA would almost certainly be liable for
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Aug 16, 2022 21:58
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Including the head of the testing department! Clearly a horrific culture from the top down.
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Aug 17, 2022 00:19
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Dieting Hippo posted:With this setup you'll have the contractors as the general work force performing testing, with FTEs in management in the department and at least one FTE on each team acting as a lead for the group performing tasks like interacting with developers or determining assignments for the contractors. Occasionally a contractor will also be designated a "lead" as well but this is at a much lower pay rate than what an FTE will earn, and will still be below the FTE on that team. This was 100% the case when I was a temp tester for Activision. The temp agency only existed as an on-paper liaison between the employee and the company. I was technically a Volt temp, but I never interacted with anyone from Volt the entire time I was there. The relationship only existed to deny proper benefits, and so ATVI didn't have to announce hundreds of layoffs every year when they "expired" temp contracts. We didn't even have the breaks between yearly contracts at the time, we were in a full permatemp situation with people being temps for 5+ years.
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Aug 17, 2022 07:12
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non-gaming Tech does this for cafeteria workers, janitors, bus drivers, quality assurance, outsourced low-level programmers, on and on. it's an explicit class system so that socially comfortable mostly-white and asian people (men and women equally) never have to worry about "the wrong kind of folks" competing for the good jobs and social respect at the companies. that includes poor and neurodivergent white guys but consult The Rest of the Internet for those issues. I've seen and lived it tangentially as a white dude, so this is a perspective that could be corrected by actually-discriminated people and I don't speak for them when I dropped out of Cornell and eventually ran out of money studying for an NYC developer position, I had to get a temp job in Ithaca and they staffed me in the Cornell library with my black shirt + khaki pants uniform selling books to rich kids ala Frank Grimes from The Simpsons. yep, definitely took pride in both of those "Cornell jobs" equally... Analytic Engine fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Aug 17, 2022 |
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Aug 17, 2022 09:56
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How the gently caress is Stux not threadbanned from this thread? Isn't the material a little too serious for their style of posting?
Scholtz fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Aug 17, 2022 |
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Aug 17, 2022 10:20
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Stux is the forum’s ghost of Christmas past who instantly appears whenever there is a lovely derail. Sometimes they have a bug up their rear end and go off on poo poo that really doesn’t matter, sometimes it’s for a good reason. I think it’s funny but YMMV  But if you think it’s an issue there is a feedback thread for this sort of thing
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Aug 17, 2022 11:54
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I think of him as more of a canary in a coalmine, but it's a similar idea. Anyway yes, please take it to the feedback thread, that's a more appropriate place to hash it out if you think it's necessary.
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Aug 17, 2022 12:11
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Metis of the Hallway posted:I think of him as more of a canary in a coalmine, but it's a similar idea. Anyway yes, please take it to the feedback thread, that's a more appropriate place to hash it out if you think it's necessary. Completely seriously, which thread is it where it's OK to ask how someone can have a 16 year rap sheet with at least 1 infraction every single month and yet they're still getting 6ers, cause that's what actually confuses me Magmarashi fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Aug 17, 2022 |
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Aug 17, 2022 17:58
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Magmarashi posted:Completely seriously, which thread is it where it's OK to ask how someone can have a 6 year rap sheet with at least 1 infraction every single month and yet they're still getting 6ers, cause that's what actually confuses me QCS
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Aug 17, 2022 18:01
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fursonally i would rather talk about labor abuse at nintendo of america than forums grudges
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Aug 17, 2022 18:08
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The labor abuses are horrifying and it's been very depressing seeing how the general response is that it's "not nintendo" or that it's not a huge deal because nintendo cultists are extremely deranged.
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Aug 17, 2022 18:16
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Looper posted:fursonally i would rather talk about labor abuse at nintendo of america than forums grudges
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Aug 17, 2022 18:35
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Ibram Gaunt posted:The labor abuses are horrifying and it's been very depressing seeing how the general response is that it's "not nintendo" or that it's not a huge deal because nintendo cultists are extremely deranged. reminds me of when one of the reports on various tech companies and how relatively unethical they are in their manufacturing processes came out a few years ago w nintendo above like, apple and google, somehow, and it was the same reaction lol
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Aug 17, 2022 18:41
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One of the largest gaming mod aggregate services, Nexus Mods, just released an absolutely incredible news article about a ban they recently did.quote:Recently there's been some silly drama on our site that was sparked by someone uploading a mod for Spider-Man Remastered. The mod replaced the very few Pride flags the game actually has with the already prevalent USA flag texture from the game. The mod was removed from Nexus Mods and the author was banned.
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Aug 18, 2022 01:34
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Nexus, as far as I’m aware, has repeatedly done a great job of cutting down on bigotry and the absurd amounts of drama in the modern mod scene. Good for them.
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Aug 18, 2022 01:38
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That's the kind of message I would LOVE to see any of my employers post.
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Aug 18, 2022 01:41
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That owns
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