Megami Tensei Megathread: two men fuse together and become beautiful

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Megami Tensei Megathread: two men fuse together and become beautiful

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NikkolasKing: Apr 3, 2010

Tired Moritz posted:

Personally I don't like games where you have way too many ways to break the battle system.

Inb4 stux says I don't actually have to use any of the game mechanics that make the game easy.

Same. Gamers should be encouraged to engage with the battle system. How you do this though is a pretty tricky subject. People tend to not do what you want them to do.

# ? Aug 20, 2022 05:27

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# ? May 25, 2024 02:35

Gaius Marius: Oct 9, 2012

Die in the game die in real life. Devs are too cowardly to make it happen tho

# ? Aug 20, 2022 05:32

NikkolasKing: Apr 3, 2010

ImpAtom posted:

I enjoy games like that too but SMT has never really been that kind of franchise because it has been for a significant period of time built around creating your own customized monsters with a degree of freedom significantly greater than something like Pokemon. It's very much a franchise that is about figuring out ways to create ludicrous demons and occasionally it tosses you challenges that justify that. (And even then the highest-end challenges tend to require very specific builds and hard-counter a lot of the most obvious stuff.)

The more flexibility you give the player the more likely your game is going to be built around making builds. That isn't a huge problem as long as the game knows what it is doing and SMT has basically been trending towards focusing on that for a long time, with balance largely being focused around requiring a bit more forethought in how to get broken moves onto powerful demons.

I dunno how it came up but elsewhere we were talking about how gamers make life harder on themselves and poo poo. Final Fantasy VIII is pretty famous for drowning you in tutorials which gamers then ignored and did nothing but spam GFs and not engage with anything the tutorials taught them.

And I was thinking...does Nocturne ever actually explain Press Turn? I can't recall any real explanation of various things. NPCs will drop little hints about things outside of battle but nothing about vital information like Repel/Absorb instantly steals all your enemy's turns. It's a sink or swim game, especially when you get to the infamous Matador.

# ? Aug 20, 2022 05:37

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 20 hours!

NikkolasKing posted:

People tend to not do what you want them to do.

yeh for example you can put in options to allow people to pick and choose what they do or dont enjoy doing however a certain segment of broken brained freaks will decided they have to do whatever theyve decided is the most efficient even if it makes them not have fun. thankyfull as these people can never be pleased you can simply ignore them.

# ? Aug 20, 2022 05:38

Gaius Marius: Oct 9, 2012

NikkolasKing posted:

I dunno how it came up but elsewhere we were talking about how gamers make life harder on themselves and poo poo. Final Fantasy VIII is pretty famous for drowning you in tutorials which gamers then ignored and did nothing but spam GFs and not engage with anything the tutorials taught them.

And I was thinking...does Nocturne ever actually explain Press Turn? I can't recall any real explanation of various things. NPCs will drop little hints about things outside of battle but nothing about vital information like Repel/Absorb instantly steals all your enemy's turns. It's a sink or swim game, especially when you get to the infamous Matador.

The shikome in the hospital explains the basics

# ? Aug 20, 2022 05:39

Tired Moritz: Mar 25, 2012; wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

_{_{(n o i c e)}}

ImpAtom posted:

I enjoy games like that too but SMT has never really been that kind of franchise because it has been for a significant period of time built around creating your own customized monsters with a degree of freedom significantly greater than something like Pokemon. It's very much a franchise that is about figuring out ways to create ludicrous demons and occasionally it tosses you challenges that justify that. (And even then the highest-end challenges tend to require very specific builds and hard-counter a lot of the most obvious stuff.)

The more flexibility you give the player the more likely your game is going to be built around making builds. That isn't a huge problem as long as the game knows what it is doing and SMT has basically been trending towards focusing on that for a long time, with balance largely being focused around requiring a bit more forethought in how to get broken moves onto powerful demons.

Yeah personally I like it when SMT fusion was about plugging up weaknesses and stacking buffs and debuffs so you don't get blown up when the enemy do their spirit bomb but with the single target buffs, the strategy turned into stacking buffs into one dude and watching him blow up the boss. Which is just not as fun for me.

I mean, dampeners are 100% there because of the AOE supercharged attacks. And they clearly wanted the elemental block skills to be used since they were in most midgame demons' kits but since dampeners were so cheap and easy to get, you don't really keep them in a demon's kit because you can just buy them. It's so strange that they made such a cheap and accessible item completely invalidate a support skill group.

# ? Aug 20, 2022 05:41

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 20 hours!

yeah its almost like they were making an entry in a famously new player unfriendly series that they wanted ot have broader appeal and so they put in various tools for people to use if they were having a tough time, while making them optional so people used to the series didnt need to use them. so crazy lol

# ? Aug 20, 2022 06:06

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 20 hours!

exactly the same brain thing as people mad the nocturne remaster had an optional inheritance select option. exact same brain.

# ? Aug 20, 2022 06:08

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Tired Moritz posted:

Yeah personally I like it when SMT fusion was about plugging up weaknesses and stacking buffs and debuffs so you don't get blown up when the enemy do their spirit bomb but with the single target buffs, the strategy turned into stacking buffs into one dude and watching him blow up the boss. Which is just not as fun for me.

I mean, dampeners are 100% there because of the AOE supercharged attacks. And they clearly wanted the elemental block skills to be used since they were in most midgame demons' kits but since dampeners were so cheap and easy to get, you don't really keep them in a demon's kit because you can just buy them. It's so strange that they made such a cheap and accessible item completely invalidate a support skill group.

The dark secret of SMT is that using items has almost always done that. The only reason it doesn't come up more is because people have "but what if I need it" syndrome but you can pretty trivially gently caress over a lot of major bosses with even some items, let alone stuff like Persona where actually using items instead of hoarding them because you might need them someday lets you easily skip past the early game "dungeons might take 2 days instead of 1" stuff.

Really the only change SMTV does is take away one of the barriers that make people sit on their 5 Magic Mirrors until the final boss or whatever.

(Also SMTV absolutely has multi-target buffs.)

# ? Aug 20, 2022 06:34

Tired Moritz: Mar 25, 2012; wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

_{_{(n o i c e)}}

ImpAtom posted:

The dark secret of SMT is that using items has almost always done that. The only reason it doesn't come up more is because people have "but what if I need it" syndrome but you can pretty trivially gently caress over a lot of major bosses with even some items, let alone stuff like Persona where actually using items instead of hoarding them because you might need them someday lets you easily skip past the early game "dungeons might take 2 days instead of 1" stuff.

Really the only change SMTV does is take away one of the barriers that make people sit on their 5 Magic Mirrors until the final boss or whatever.

(Also SMTV absolutely has multi-target buffs.)

Yeah but not in early game where dampeners are most effective. And yeah I use items too but imagine if in Nocturne, they just gave you easy access to buff stones to deal with Matador instead of asking you to actually fuse the buffs on your demons.

# ? Aug 20, 2022 06:45

Einander: Sep 14, 2008; "Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."

Tired Moritz posted:

Yeah but not in early game where dampeners are most effective. And yeah I use items too but imagine if in Nocturne, they just gave you easy access to buff stones to deal with Matador instead of asking you to actually fuse the buffs on your demons.

That sounds good, actually? Like, either way, you're using a resource. The difference is that if it's an item you need to use, then you don't run into a boss and get stuck for half an hour while you manually assemble a solution, you just discern what you need to do and do it. Most of the time when I run into something that's looking for a specific answer, then if I can hobble together half the solution and throw it at the problem until I luck into a win, I do. Because that takes about as long as the grinding-based solution, and I'd much prefer to confront the problem on a tactical level rather than a strategic one.

And yeah, "fuse together the perfect demon for this situation" is a grinding-based solution. I see the ideal behind "solve problems by fusing demons at it!", except that these are also resource management games, so creating the perfect demon for a situation is expensive. In a game with reduced compendium costs or no limit on demon slots (skill slots or team slots, both apply), then sure, I'd be more enthusiastic about that sort of thing. But not if the alternative to Dampeners is running into a boss, figuring out the answer in five minutes, and then spending thirty assembling the answer to a problem I already understand.

# ? Aug 20, 2022 07:55

KingSlime: Mar 20, 2007; Wake up with the Kin-OH GOD WHAT IS THAT?!

Man im bummed

This soul hackers 2 poo poo is dire. Doesn't even feel like an smt game AT ALL. At least I saved 60 bux I guess

# ? Aug 20, 2022 09:53

Tokyo Sexwale: Jul 30, 2003

Tired Moritz posted:

Yeah but not in early game where dampeners are most effective. And yeah I use items too but imagine if in Nocturne, they just gave you easy access to buff stones to deal with Matador instead of asking you to actually fuse the buffs on your demons.

boy are you going to be disappointed when you find out what a dekaja rock is

# ? Aug 20, 2022 14:09

Ibram Gaunt: Jul 22, 2009

KingSlime posted:

Man im bummed

This soul hackers 2 poo poo is dire. Doesn't even feel like an smt game AT ALL. At least I saved 60 bux I guess

Really? I didn't see many reviews but it didn't seem that bad..What makes you say this

# ? Aug 20, 2022 15:10

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

I don't think that poster has played it, which is funny

# ? Aug 20, 2022 15:16

Tired Moritz: Mar 25, 2012; wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

_{_{(n o i c e)}}

Tokyo Sexwale posted:

boy are you going to be disappointed when you find out what a dekaja rock is

He can just red capote back, no?

# ? Aug 20, 2022 16:16

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 20 hours!

with you its more like red cope lol

# ? Aug 20, 2022 16:24

KingSlime: Mar 20, 2007; Wake up with the Kin-OH GOD WHAT IS THAT?!

Arist posted:

I don't think that poster has played it, which is funny

There's these things called gameplay videos, they're pretty neat.

Ibram Gaunt posted:

Really? I didn't see many reviews but it didn't seem that bad..What makes you say this

I don't know what it is about the battles, everything outside of that seems ok I guess. I showed footage to two friends last night who were really excited to get the game, after a few minutes they were like...why does this seem like a weird lovely mobile game? Why are the animations terrible?

Ymmv but I know I'm not the only one who was turned off by a few minutes of gameplay. I'm really not trying to just be negative, we were all excited to pick this up ASAP.

This feels like Tokyo mirage sessions with a light SMT paint job. Also wtf is up with those battle themes? Ugly stuff

KingSlime fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Aug 20, 2022

# ? Aug 20, 2022 17:29

cdyoung: Mar 2, 2012

KingSlime posted:

There's these things called gameplay videos, they're pretty neat.

I don't know what it is about the battles, everything outside of that seems ok I guess. I showed footage to two friends last night who were really excited to get the game, after a few minutes they were like...why does this seem like a weird lovely mobile game? Why are the animations terrible?

Ymmv but I know I'm not the only one who was turned off by a few minutes of gameplay. I'm really not trying to just be negative, we were all excited to pick this up ASAP.

This feels like Tokyo mirage sessions with a light SMT paint job. Also wtf is up with those battle themes? Ugly stuff

Because it's being made for the Switch and not something more powerful like say a PS5 or an X-Bone?

# ? Aug 20, 2022 18:18

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

tms owned though

# ? Aug 20, 2022 18:23

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

cheetah7071 posted:

tms owned though

hell yeah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxJ97dG-HLw

# ? Aug 20, 2022 18:30

Ibram Gaunt: Jul 22, 2009

I played and enjoyed Caligula 2 last month which looks and plays much worse than this so I'll probably like it despite the warts.

# ? Aug 20, 2022 18:35

Sakurazuka: Jan 24, 2004; NANI?

Atlus games always look pretty slick at least

# ? Aug 20, 2022 18:51

MoonCrab: Nov 19, 2014; A mildly pertubed emoji face

Extremely ftw that good videogame TMS has become my guiding light when navigating other peoples SMT reviews and opinions.

# ? Aug 20, 2022 20:01

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 20 hours!

cheetah7071 posted:

tms owned though

tms is currently being prescribed as a drug free insomnia relief alternative

# ? Aug 20, 2022 20:07

Neeksy: Mar 29, 2007; Hej min vän, hur står det till?

Ibram Gaunt posted:

I played and enjoyed Caligula 2 last month which looks and plays much worse than this so I'll probably like it despite the warts.

Same, I can overlook budget and a really small production team (seriously Caligula 2 looks like it was made by a indie-sized studio in comparison when i looked at the credits) as long as there is something going on in the story/ideas/character department.

# ? Aug 20, 2022 20:12

cdyoung: Mar 2, 2012

cheetah7071 posted:

tms owned though

For the life of me I can't get through the gravure dungeon. :<

# ? Aug 20, 2022 20:32

RevolverDivider: Nov 12, 2016

TMS was a much better game then SMTV

# ? Aug 20, 2022 20:33

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 20 hours!

if youve had a lobotomy, sure.

# ? Aug 20, 2022 20:38

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Sakurazuka posted:

Atlus games always look pretty slick at least

I feel like I live in a different world from people where any modern SMT game besides P5 was particularly slick. I enjoyed the hell out of SMTV but a visual tour de force it was not.

P5 looked loving amazing but I am pretty sure it's budget was higher than SMTIV, IVA, V and SH2 put together.

(SH2 had a budget of a buck fifty mind youm)

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Aug 20, 2022

# ? Aug 20, 2022 20:41

RillAkBea: Oct 11, 2008

cdyoung posted:

Because it's being made for the Switch and not something more powerful like say a PS5 or an X-Bone?

It's being made for every system except the switch though.

# ? Aug 20, 2022 20:41

Sakurazuka: Jan 24, 2004; NANI?

ImpAtom posted:

I feel like I live in a different world from people where any modern SMT game besides P5 was particularly slick. I enjoyed the hell out of SMTV but a visual tour de force it was not.

P5 looked loving amazing but I am pretty sure it's budget was higher than SMTIV, IVA, V and SH2 put together.

(SH2 had a budget of a buck fifty mind youm)

'Looking slick' and 'good graphics' are not the same thing

# ? Aug 20, 2022 21:14

TurnipFritter: Apr 21, 2010; 10,000 POSTS ON TALKING TIME

Abdiel has slicked back hair, but otoh the world of SMTV is mostly sand, which isn't really slick. SMT5 is a land of contrasts.

# ? Aug 20, 2022 21:32

Stux: Nov 17, 2006; Can't post for 20 hours!

ImpAtom posted:

SMTV but a visual tour de force it was not.

this. it needed ray tracing and epic god rays. as it stands it looks like complete rear end just like breath of the wild.

# ? Aug 20, 2022 21:38

TurnipFritter: Apr 21, 2010; 10,000 POSTS ON TALKING TIME

Stux posted:

this. it needed ray tracing and epic god rays. as it stands it looks like complete rear end just like breath of the wild.

Is Divine Arrowfall not enough

# ? Aug 20, 2022 21:42

MoonCrab: Nov 19, 2014; A mildly pertubed emoji face

cdyoung posted:

For the life of me I can't get through the gravure dungeon. :<

Fear not, in the superior "boneless" version, the (bad) gravure dungeon is replaced with a much improved fashion dungeon. All you need to do, is purchase the correct edition.

# ? Aug 20, 2022 21:51

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Sakurazuka posted:

'Looking slick' and 'good graphics' are not the same thing

I know. I'm saying that even in that respect they are not exactly overwhelming. I don't hate how they look or anything but I wouldn't rank them particularly high in that regards except for maybe the Personas (for the time.)

But then again I enjoyed all the handheld games and I never found Persona 3 Portable to look notably worse than P3PS2 so :shrug: