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The dicta in that case is not precedent and does not change the fact that innocent people accept pardons without admitting guilt.
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Aug 28, 2022 04:19
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StumblyWumbly posted:Flynn and Nixon were pardoned before they were convicted. It's often seen as admission of guilt, but I think a recent SCOTUS case made that not legally true. I thought Flynn had plead guilty prior to being pardoned, then tried to walk that back and change his plea after being convicted somehow but it all came out in the wash after Trump pardoned him?
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Aug 28, 2022 04:32
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Captain_Maclaine posted:I thought Flynn had plead guilty prior to being pardoned, then tried to walk that back and change his plea after being convicted somehow but it all came out in the wash after Trump pardoned him? Yeah, short version is he plead guilty as part of a deal, but sentencing got delayed in part because the judge thought Flynn deserved a harsher sentence than the plea deal wanted. Then Flynn got me lawyers and changed his plea, in part because of the texts saying the FBI thinks trump is a dumb rear end in a top hat. I can find cases where someone in prison is pardoned after new evidence comes out showing they're , innocent, so I can see the point that accepting a pardon does not equal guilt. But I feel like that's a significantly different situation than what we've got here StumblyWumbly fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Aug 28, 2022 |
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Aug 28, 2022 05:02
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Well then I hope you'll pardon me.  Fair enough, Nixon was pardoned "for crimes he might have committed", so it was certainly before a charge being brought though after the resignation. I didn't say "guilt" (and haven't) because guilt is (legally) only assigned by a judge or jury. Not being alive at the time, it does appear that Ford's pardon didn't go well, maybe lost him the election, and he said as such. I still think T being marched into prison would lead to 1M people driving their cars with spare gas jugs into every federal agency they can find, and for this reason I don't believe any president would feel they had any choice but to issue a pardon. I'm certainly not trying to suggest that on some random Tuesday a pardon will show up, only that it becomes a matter of national security after a conviction. There's also international optics but ugh. Doesn't matter much. That's weeks away. Sigh, years.
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Aug 28, 2022 07:10
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Fart Amplifier posted:This is a myth and makes no sense. Many innocent people accept pardons. Fart Amplifier posted:The dicta in that case is not precedent and does not change the fact that innocent people accept pardons without admitting guilt. Not to mention the hundreds of posthumous pardons. Corpses can't "legally admit" poo poo. It's completely incoherent gibberish that people have latched onto because the internet loves playing a game of telephone about legal minutiae.
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Aug 28, 2022 08:49
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cr0y posted:
LOUD NOISES
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Aug 28, 2022 11:49
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Yikes! https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1563843608264019971
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Aug 28, 2022 12:58
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50% of all documents collected from Trump had some manner of food stain on them. Do you take the over or the under?
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Aug 28, 2022 14:31
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We need an independent burger taint master
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Aug 28, 2022 14:37
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:50% of all documents collected from Trump had some manner of food stain on them. Under, there's a lot and I doubt he reads fast.
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Aug 28, 2022 14:49
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Mulva posted:Under, there's a lot and I doubt he reads fast. Yeah but he throws food and talks with his mouth full, I expect. So, we just talking the MAL docs? Or all the docs that have been in his presence since Jan 2017? MAL docs, I’ll take the over. More than 50% have some sort of food, beverage or spittle staining. Some researcher will make a whole career cataloging the food stains on his documents and indexing them to White House meals. One finding will be that he likely kept parts of his dinner in his pockets and the next time he wore those clothes he’d snack on the left overs. Sometimes, months later while on diplomatic trips a bit of special sauce with a uniquely identifiable composition from a previous meal will be splattered all over documents that were never within 1000 miles of the White House.
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Aug 28, 2022 15:23
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Just noticed this https://mobile.twitter.com/tomiahonen/status/1563514950647414784
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Aug 28, 2022 15:24
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Charlz Guybon posted:Just noticed this If there is this many informants, I'm convinced that my earlier post about a food delivery guy being an informant isn't going to be that far from the truth. Maybe not an informant, but likely some eye witness will end up being like a wait staff or Uber Eats delivery person who got to see classified documents and decided to call the FBI.
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Aug 28, 2022 15:34
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Also, that guy estimates Trump is looking at 19,600 years of prison just for the theft. If he sold them, it's way worse.
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Aug 28, 2022 15:40
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Charlz Guybon posted:Just noticed this Some of that is interesting but ignore anything with numbers or extrapolation of those numbers because that’s all conjecture.
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Aug 28, 2022 15:40
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Charlz Guybon posted:Just noticed this God drat. Even MORE coffee boys, losers and liars with uncreative nicknames?
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Aug 28, 2022 15:41
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BiggerBoat posted:God drat. Even MORE coffee boys, losers and liars with uncreative nicknames? That picture in the second tweet is intentional.
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Aug 28, 2022 19:24
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Charlz Guybon posted:https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1445426081499172864?s=21&t=A5x8fFVNdASgACFEvkcuvA Sounds familiar https://news.yahoo.com/cias-communications-suffered-catastrophic-compromise-started-iran-090018710.html
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Aug 28, 2022 22:47
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Charlz Guybon posted:Just noticed this No mystery. 
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Aug 29, 2022 02:56
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FizFashizzle posted:That picture in the second tweet is intentional. Who is he?
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Aug 29, 2022 03:23
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Oracle posted:Who is he? Mark Meadows. Trumps Chief of Staff at the WH.
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Aug 29, 2022 03:35
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Is Maggie just this dumb, or is it an act? https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1564077921618255874
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Aug 29, 2022 04:03
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The simplest most explanative explanation for all this is that Donald Trump has been a foreign asset since before he was President.
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Aug 29, 2022 06:00
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Bar Ran Dun posted:The simplest most explanative explanation for all this is that Donald Trump has been a foreign asset since before he was President. Actually he's several foreign assets.
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Aug 29, 2022 06:05
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lol, this dude has sold state secrets to every Charlz Guybon posted:Just noticed this Speaking of, I genuinely laughed out loud when I scrolled down to see that second picture.
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Aug 29, 2022 09:45
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Bar Ran Dun posted:The simplest most explanative explanation for all this is that Donald Trump has been a foreign asset since before he was President. Donald Trump is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.
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Aug 29, 2022 15:20
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VideoGameVet posted:Donald Trump is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life. Sample size 1.
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Aug 29, 2022 15:48
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https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1564258626683928578
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Aug 29, 2022 15:51
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MixMasterMalaria posted:Sample size 1. It’s from an excellent movie (name of person changed, of course). The Manchurian Candidate.
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Aug 29, 2022 16:49
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The conspiracy theorist in me is screaming that this was planted by their informant, putting higher pressure on the timing of the raid. Since it was with criminal evidence, isn't that free for the FBI / Jan 6 Committee to use? I really hope it's juicy
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Aug 29, 2022 17:04
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Judge Schnoopy posted:The conspiracy theorist in me is screaming that this was planted by their informant, putting higher pressure on the timing of the raid. No, the crime-fraud exception is pretty narrow, and covers only communications that themselves are in furtherance of a crime. Just being found with crime stuff doesn't count. It's not surprising that there'd be a handful of A-C privileged stuff in the piles of documents they seized, given how much there was and the degree to which Trump persistently mixed his government and personal business.
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Aug 29, 2022 17:21
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My guess is that the privileged documents probably have nothing particularly interesting. I know he's had some bad lawyers but they're probably not going to put confessions of guilt on paper. It's probably just boring lawyer poo poo.
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Aug 29, 2022 17:25
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I wonder if Trump is going to dig his heels in on the executive privilege argument, considering the DOJ seems to be dismissing it completely without acknowledgment. Which, yeah, they probably decided that executive privilege doesn't exist for a former president, but will Trump accept that?
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Aug 29, 2022 17:32
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Tibalt posted:I wonder if Trump is going to dig his heels in on the executive privilege argument, considering the DOJ seems to be dismissing it completely without acknowledgment. Which, yeah, they probably decided that executive privilege doesn't exist for a former president, but will Trump accept that? Not totally sure anyone gives a gently caress whether he does.
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Aug 29, 2022 17:34
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Tibalt posted:I wonder if Trump is going to dig his heels in on the executive privilege argument, considering the DOJ seems to be dismissing it completely without acknowledgment. Which, yeah, they probably decided that executive privilege doesn't exist for a former president, but will Trump accept that? Executive Privilege is to protect the executive branch of government (the president) from harassment by other branches of government. The FBI and DOJ are in the executive branch, executive privilege doesn't apply. How does the current president protect himself from himself and why would he want that? His claiming privilege here is just because he knows his fans are idiots or he's an idiot or some of both.
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Aug 29, 2022 17:37
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Tibalt posted:I wonder if Trump is going to dig his heels in on the executive privilege argument, considering the DOJ seems to be dismissing it completely without acknowledgment. Which, yeah, they probably decided that executive privilege doesn't exist for a former president, but will Trump accept that? it's totally up to Biden to let trump claim executive privilege so
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Aug 29, 2022 17:39
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Tibalt posted:I wonder if Trump is going to dig his heels in on the executive privilege argument, considering the DOJ seems to be dismissing it completely without acknowledgment. Which, yeah, they probably decided that executive privilege doesn't exist for a former president, but will Trump accept that? So what if he does? The judge just says, "lol, try again." He can make any argument he likes. He's dealing with laws now, and his opinion is irrelevant. It's not like they don't have tools to deal with him.
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Aug 29, 2022 17:44
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this seems even dumber than usual https://twitter.com/hugolowell/status/1564281220091072518
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Aug 29, 2022 18:03
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:this seems even dumber than usual It's dumber than usual. The DOJ didn't decide what it could use in the investigation. They got a warrant from the courts, employed a filter team, and ultimately at any criminal trial the courts will review whatever was collected and exclude anything that was improperly collected and retained. Assuming that anything collected was actually privileged (between Trump and his personal lawyer), I assume it would already have been returned by the filter team, and the investigation would have no knowledge of it. Anything that was not privileged and was evidence for any crime (related or not) should be fair game.
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Aug 29, 2022 18:10
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Yeah, the point of a special master is to prevent the prosecutor from even seeing stuff they shouldn't have. You can argue that it shouldn't matter even then because they still have to follow rules of evidence with things not relevant to their investigation, but if you can use a special master to just completely avoid the issue altogether so that they can't even see the documents they shouldn't get, then thats ideal. But the DOJ already saw everything. The whole reason for a special master is now moot. Their job is not to decide what the DOJ can or can't use, they aren't the judge. There's nothing special about the special master once everyone has seen the documents, then if there's a document later on that you think the DOJ shouldn't be able to use, argue it to the judge when it comes up later. edit: as someone mentioned earlier, I think Trump read about a special master, thought it was the coolest thing ever, and he is now directing his lawyers to go this route. If they try to explain to him that its no longer relevant, then he'll get mad and bellow out "SHUT UP, GO DO THE SPECIAL MASTER LAWMAN THING NOW!" Rigel fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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