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Tons of people in the YT comments are complaining about the simplistic war functionality, comparing the game to a mobile game because it's not HOI4. They've went over again and again, you're roleplaying Abraham Lincoln, not General Sherman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKdIccOVn6M lolsnipe, I'm glad we aren't doing bullshit regiment micro anymore. HOI4 is right there for that sort of thing.
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Aug 30, 2022 21:58
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You could probably make the other games economic focused, but that’s Vicky’s niche and making the other games lose their identity seems pointless
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Aug 30, 2022 22:04
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CharlestheHammer posted:You could probably make the other games economic focused, but that’s Vicky’s niche and making the other games lose their identity seems pointless it's not an either/or. EU and HOI are both pretty focused on war and conquest yet do not feel pointless or redundant because of the other
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Aug 30, 2022 22:05
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Cease to Hope posted:it's not an either/or. EU and HOI are both pretty focused on war and conquest yet do not feel pointless or redundant because of the other Well EUs gimmick is it’s not actually focused on anything. So you could make it more economic focused because it doesn’t really matter. Crusader Kings on the other hand had a fairly strong focus
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Aug 30, 2022 22:15
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Honestly, Hearts of Iron would be the game I'd most like to see a Victoria-esque combat system. Obviously you'd still have all the complexity of choosing all the guns and stuff for your guys, and you'd definitely want a couple options for directing advances, but otherwise it seems like it would be pretty similar to how HoI works now. Just say these divisions should go to that commander on that front and let abstract logistics take care of the rest. You basically just do that already, there's just little guys you can fiddle with if you want to exploit the bad AI. If a system just needs a "take this province first please" and "try to get to this line" buttons to basically be HoI, it's not exactly a fundamentally broken system.
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Aug 30, 2022 22:16
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Hellioning posted:Vicky 3's warfare, if it works, will work because there is a robust economic system behind it that you can focus on instead of the warfare. I do think that CK3 has a fairly robust character system that is presented as the primary focus but suffers from being mostly disconnected from how war plays out. As much as managing your vassals and making careful alliances can make wars easier, the busted Men at Arms system and all the classic regiment moving tricks the human player can deploy means that the interpersonal mechanics can fade into the background. I don't think just importing the Vicky 3 mechanics unchanged would be the right move, but CK3 would probably benefit from a more hands off warfare system that emphasises what makes the game unique.
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Aug 30, 2022 22:25
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i think the people who enjoy EU4 combat are wrong and so think vicky 3's combat will be fine. hoi4's front system is super broken and bad lol which is why the premier mods all turn off the warfare aspect, so hopefully that is only used as an example of what to avoid
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Aug 30, 2022 22:35
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CharlestheHammer posted:You could probably make the other games economic focused, but that’s Vicky’s niche and making the other games lose their identity seems pointless That's like saying Victoria makes Imperialism lose its identity despite similar themes; in fact come to think of it Imperialism might be a good model for making EU more economic focused. Basically, you focus on a different sort of economic development; which is easy, because Victoria is about industrialization while EU is more about the emergence of banking, taxation, tariffs, trade, exploration and colonialization. Additionally you have two very different diplomatic systems governing and informing international politics. In EU's time period, especially post-Westphalia, it's about the mechanistic balance of power in an anarchic system with different rising powers struggling to gain hegemony against such a system. While Victoria is governed more by the Concert of Europe, working as a sort of global oligarchy of the Great Powers, coordinating to preserve the status quo with only minor changes until its failure. And so on and so forth for CK which has its own historical context that informs its economic and diplomatic systems.
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Aug 30, 2022 22:47
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Lady Radia posted:i think the people who enjoy EU4 combat are wrong and so think vicky 3's combat will be fine. hoi4's front system is super broken and bad lol which is why the premier mods all turn off the warfare aspect, so hopefully that is only used as an example of what to avoid Why yes, I’m glad that Victoria 3 makes it so I don’t have to deal with that poo poo ever. Hell, it might even make the Brits worth allying!
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Aug 30, 2022 22:51
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man the livestream was nice seeing the game in motion but also it was so hard with wiz trying to move the game along and give broad overviews of things but also explain why they were doing things. But what's his name actually at the controls kept getting totally stuck in pause getting into the weeds in things that don't need getting into while ignoring the things wiz really wanted to explain a little more...
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Aug 30, 2022 22:53
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Lance of Llanwyln posted:My favorite aspect of EU IV warfare, aside from fort fuckery and the AIs eagerness to clown-car the player even if the actual war objective is halfway across Europe, is how it’s almost existentially terrified of giving battle on even slightly unequal terms. You almost have no choice *but* to bait or exploit it. It would usually rather faff about sieging poo poo in Siberia at 0.01 warscore per province, eating max attrition the entire time (to the extent attrition matters for the AU) than try to prevent you from steamrolling the war goal and/or the AI capitals, inevitably causing them to lose the war, but in a way that feels annoying and pathetic rather than climatic. yeah it's really bad. people talk about it as it's "interesting decisions" but it's not, it's solved problems just annoying. oh look i have full front-line-filling infantry stacks ready to reinforce in nearby provinces, oh i wait until movement is locked to order moves. it's not interesting at all.
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Aug 30, 2022 22:53
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Are there EU4 total conversions that get rid of/minimize war? Kinda like HOI4s The New Order. Doesn’t have to be story based but I basically drop my EU4 run whenever I am confronted with a big war because it’s aggravating
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Aug 30, 2022 23:01
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Having watched the stream I now want to be the worlds biggest producer and exporter of explosives. Game needs to come out already.
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Aug 30, 2022 23:03
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My greatest hope for combat in v3 is that the system is simple enough that we don't have these types of situations because there just isn't enough there for the player to really have to work with, while also allowing technology to change how wars are fought over the time period in a way that allows for wars longer than a month. And also that we don't have things like Belgium doing weird poo poo like teleporting their soldiers into an invasion of St. Petersburg on day one of the war instead of defending, say, Belgium. The best case scenario is that you give a general an army, give them a directive, and then the general tries their best to fulfill that directive based on character traits and the composition of their army.
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Aug 30, 2022 23:03
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TwoQuestions posted:Tons of people in the YT comments are complaining about the simplistic war functionality, comparing the game to a mobile game because it's not HOI4. They've went over again and again, you're roleplaying Abraham Lincoln, not General Sherman. Cool now post the follow up video OPB posted once the full warfare system was revealed where he was more critical about the implementation. Most of the major decisions Lincoln had to grapple with aren't actually possible in the game, there aren't two different theaters for East and West, you can't do the Anaconda plan or the Peninsula campaign, you can't restrict troops from entering the border states, etc. You choose generals and press either go or stop.
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Aug 30, 2022 23:09
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I'm sure there will be dlc and expansions to flesh out the strategic aspect of combat more.
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Aug 30, 2022 23:20
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:You keep saying stuff like this. It's not a narratively structured game ili, it's a sandbox. There shouldn't be any balance here. The game is the experience of building sandcastles in the sandbox and experiencing the ants move If you want an ambitious game that tries to simulate the world to be a mindless toy then you'll always have console commands.
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Aug 30, 2022 23:23
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Mantis42 posted:Cool now post the follow up video OPB posted once the full warfare system was revealed where he was more critical about the implementation. I don't feel like of the stuff you are talking about has ever been a thing anyway. You could do those actions but none of them would ever feel thematic or important. The only Paradox game where the combat isn't just following scripts based on your knowledge of AI flaws is HoI. And I can't imagine looking at the actual gameplay in streams, where there is an endless list of things to do and tweak and mess with regarding internal and external politics alone and wanting to then also tack on a generic micro-based combat system that takes your attention away from the actually fun and important parts of the game.
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Aug 30, 2022 23:27
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Lady Radia posted:i think the people who enjoy EU4 combat are wrong and so think vicky 3's combat will be fine. hoi4's front system is super broken and bad lol which is why the premier mods all turn off the warfare aspect, so hopefully that is only used as an example of what to avoid TNO and...what else?
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Aug 30, 2022 23:29
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I think the old system was bad and the new system is also bad but could be good if they gave a bit more decision making power and had the decision of how to conduct a war integrated into the political system.
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Aug 30, 2022 23:31
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If I had to choose between V3 heavily abstracted combat and per-unit micro it's no contest at all, but after watching it in motion I wouldn't mind a tiny tiny bit more control and granularity. We'll see how it goes!
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Aug 30, 2022 23:42
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To be honest I think the new system is bad, but hating the old system has become so engrained in peoples identity they will take slop as long as it’s different
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Aug 30, 2022 23:42
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i think generals doing stupid poo poo and loving up is such an iconic part of the vicky era that anything which forces you to hand it off to general moron mccheese because putting him in charge was a necessary political compromise to get other things done is good. the specifics of the new system might be bad but like, this is wiz we're talking about, dude did like 3 revisions of stellaris's entire gameplay mechanics because they were varying degrees of bad, i think his team can handle revamping a single bad system if they need to
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Aug 30, 2022 23:50
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Hellioning posted:TNO and...what else? kaiserreich is similarly more of a CYOA these days but you're right it doesn't completely turn it off. you get my point tho lmao Baronjutter posted:If I had to choose between V3 heavily abstracted combat and per-unit micro it's no contest at all, but after watching it in motion I wouldn't mind a tiny tiny bit more control and granularity. We'll see how it goes! ya maybe but like you say it's such a clear improvement it's tough to get my hands up in the air that it is bad rn
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Aug 30, 2022 23:52
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If you made a number line with vanilla HOI4 at 0 and TNO at 1 KR is probably a 0.25. it's still fundamentally about normal HOI4 gameplay, you just get some extra minigames and fun events sprinkled in.
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Aug 31, 2022 00:02
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There was a Reddit AMA with a reviewer today that was interesting because they mentioned that the US is actually pretty difficult to play traditionally. The tax laws suck and there's massive resistance to changing them, so it's very easy to industrialize but all the benefits and profits go to the capitalists and the government barely benefits. And dealing with Mexico is a bit dangerous cause other GPs are fairly willing to get in your way. And massive amounts of internal friction with regards to slavery and the capitalists hoarding all the wealth. You can still do well by playing by the strengths it has, but trying to do a standard strategy of empowering workers too early can destroy them apparently.
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Aug 31, 2022 00:11
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Lmao if you think I'm empowering a single worker
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Aug 31, 2022 00:15
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having a huge laff at the nuclear take that the game all about strategic warfare and being paradox's take at the ever popular genre of WW2 hex based grog games should remove all of that and just be a slider for more or less gun We'll see how this current system works, but I personally kind of predict it'll turn the game kind of like Imperator in the way that everyone starts to feel and play the same, with the fronts removing a sense of tactics and defensive terrain, etc, that prompts your nation building and how you do things. So it'll be more about just your internal country, which everyone runs on the same internal markets with a few fluff buildings and mostly universal resources. Different starting laws and cultural stuff, sure, but in an era about change that's not going to last. I think the luster of the war system will wane within the first play through. Still, we'll see actually touching it, ofc.
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Aug 31, 2022 00:19
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Gaius Marius posted:Lmao if you think I'm empowering a single worker
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Aug 31, 2022 00:20
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Mantis42 posted:Most of the major decisions Lincoln had to grapple with aren't actually possible in the game, there aren't two different theaters for East and West, you can't do the Anaconda plan or the Peninsula campaign, you can't restrict troops from entering the border states, etc. You choose generals and press either go or stop. Adding an ability to split fronts might be nifty in the future though. Might be a bit fiddly though so I'm fine if they took their time with a feature like that and left us with a nice functional game for now. These are the devs who overhauled Stellaris multiple times. I'm fine with a 'good enough' combat system, especially since combat isn't the meat of the gameplay. Gamerofthegame posted:We'll see how this current system works, but I personally kind of predict it'll turn the game kind of like Imperator in the way that everyone starts to feel and play the same, with the fronts removing a sense of tactics and defensive terrain, etc, that prompts your nation building and how you do things. So it'll be more about just your internal country, which everyone runs on the same internal markets with a few fluff buildings and mostly universal resources. Different starting laws and cultural stuff, sure, but in an era about change that's not going to last. I think the luster of the war system will wane within the first play through. Still, we'll see actually touching it, ofc. Honestly, if there's anything to be worried about it's the Belgian naval invasion of Russia. That is to say, just broken AI nonsense in general. They're surely going to look at that specific case, but with so many interacting scenarios- especially when it comes to deciding when it's appropriate to launch an invasion over the sea- I can imagine there will be some obnoxious situations where the game breaks. The rebellion in the Dutch East Indies also looked like a mess, in terms of the military interface. I hope they find a way to simplify that kind of scenario.
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Aug 31, 2022 01:02
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I think that the new war system is conceptually a happy medium between moving mans on the map and "press button to attack", but the implementation looks a bit janky (so, a Paradox game). The way that fronts often split seems to force you to micromanage your armies' front assignments more often than you'd want to, and we've seen a good deal of fronts with zero troops on either side and questionable, logistic-defying front assignments from the AI in what they've previewed so far. I'm sure it will improve by release and afterwards but more than that I'm just extremely excited to play Victoria 3 and even if the combat is as bad as it could possibly be I don't think it will have a big impact on my enjoyment.
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Aug 31, 2022 01:07
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my one and only plan is to construct socialism with <nation> characteristics
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Aug 31, 2022 01:23
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Eiba posted:I'm pretty sure you could play any major country on the map (and most minor countries too, I'd bet) and never even go to war and have an interesting and dynamic game that derives from the unique material and social conditions of your chosen country. The idea that you'll lose your country's sense of uniqueness because you can't manually move your troops around the terrain, which is still there and meaningful, is an interesting prediction. I guess we'll see. See, I am not entirely sure the various countries will ultimately feel that different, though. Maybe in terms of Europe/US versus otherwise, but unique material, social conditions? Will there be a gulf of difference for either between, say, GB and Germany? And again, it's a game about social and economic upheaval, the starting conditions of how your country is legally probably won't mean too much. i mean i'm still buying it
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Aug 31, 2022 01:24
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I'm optimistic about the game, it's just so hard to tell from streams and reviews. Sometimes the jank and bad designs don't become obvious in a paradox game until you've really put some serious hours in. I'm just hoping the game can generate some interesting stories and history. I want to set out to create a socialist utopia but I mean utopia isn't free so I'll need a good industrial base and oops I don't have all the resources I need so I guess I'll have to do a little colonialism but it's for a good long term cause... and before I know it I'm just yet another awful imperialist power.
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Aug 31, 2022 01:36
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I loving hate warfrare in all Paradox games so Vicky 3 is ideal for me.
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Aug 31, 2022 02:03
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If nothing else I am absolutely willing to buy Vicky 3 as a mod platform.
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Aug 31, 2022 02:05
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after imperator i swore i wouldnt preorder a paradox game ever again just like after hoi4 and after sengoku and after march of the eagles .... but it's too late.
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Aug 31, 2022 02:29
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Paradox, I am ready to be hurt again.
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Aug 31, 2022 02:38
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Gaius Marius posted:Lmao if you think I'm empowering a single worker Honestly the most fun in V2 was playing a country as absolutely aggressive and regressive as possible, crushing revolts until there's a couple million communists pop up to overthrow your government. It was one of the better features of V2 where if you gave your people everything they wanted they just became boring liberals and conservatives whereas if you went hardcore PartyLine you got the FunStuff.
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Aug 31, 2022 02:43
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Continuing to read Late Victorian Holocausts just makes me want to crush the British Empire more.
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Aug 31, 2022 03:09
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