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WindwardAway posted:I, too, love getting role information, but I like getting it as any alignment. I don't think scum!Psycho's first thought is specifically to copy HCT when supposedly you and he both know that whatever he is, he was roleblocked twice, and scum!Psycho would risk losing a potential misyeet if HCT has a towny role. And idk how AI the roles are in this game, probably most are NAI, but HCT himself did say that he believes his role doesn't really benefit scum, and he's OK with being copied for that matter. My wording was poor. Role info is useful for anyone. But for scum it lets you set up a kill, for town, you might catch someone in a lie or with a scum biased role. And why isn't HCT a good choice. It is an offensive role to some extent as he deployed it on people he was suspicious of. It is an active role that can be copied because it was blocked. It is a good of a choice as any.
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Sep 12, 2022 14:12
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A Sometimes Food posted:Exactly what I said, I dont trust Psycho. I see a lot of posting just by Psycho and a couple of others all day, but at the end of the day, they were seen going to Spork, and Spork died. All the rest of this, just seems like activity to look better. Talk about your reads other than me. You are relying on a claim and absolutely nothing else. The moment I flip, people are gonna read my case on you and realize your entire posting history is too thin to be anything other than scum. Even Grandi at least has SOME thought about me other than the claim. You literally have nothing
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Sep 12, 2022 14:26
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@Grandicap if you're not going to consider my words, you better listen to my words when I flip. Seriously, if you look at anything, look at my case on ASF. He literally has no reads other than on Cloacamazing and Circl throughout this whole game. He voted RWC and defended his lack of voting RWC on d1 without actually elaborating on any read on RWC. You really think that's town?
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Sep 12, 2022 14:31
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PsychoSoldier posted:@Grandicap if you're not going to consider my words, you better listen to my words when I flip. I see what you are saying on ASF. If you are town I will pursue it.
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Sep 12, 2022 14:32
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Like, if it weren't for the track and lingering doubts, I wouldn't be on you today. But you were tracked to a body and you are a good player, I'm not letting you weasel out of it.
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Sep 12, 2022 14:33
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He never elaborates his read on me. Just leaves it all to the claim. I don't care that I've been tracked to the body. I didn't kill Spork. He shouldn't have been able to drink the potion the same night because drinking the potion counts as a night action, and he was flipped as part of the same night phase that I gave it to him.
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Sep 12, 2022 14:34
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Grandicap posted:Like, if it weren't for the track and lingering doubts, I wouldn't be on you today. But you were tracked to a body and you are a good player, I'm not letting you weasel out of it. See, this is why I didn't want to start here with a scum game. Because no one will trust my town game just because I can post a lot as either alignment. But just seriously look at ASF and tell me he's not scum.
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Sep 12, 2022 14:35
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Grandi, can you at least talk about where your reads are at pending on my flip? Only reason I'm even trying to convince you is because I currently believe your town, but I'd like to hear your thoughts beyond feeling you need to prove my claim.
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Sep 12, 2022 14:40
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And if you are scum, I don't want you to be able to make up your course of action after I flip. Show the rest of us that you're actually evaluating the field.
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Sep 12, 2022 14:41
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Can we talk about the fact that there is an incredible amount of resistance to flipping ASF for absolutely no reason at all, except that Psycho got tracked to Spork? So if Psycho flips town, are you guys gonna continue to resist flipping ASF by coming up with excuses or what?
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Sep 12, 2022 14:48
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My short list is: You, ASF (Definitely not both though, this doesn't read as a bus) Neverhelm feels bad to me too, but that might be some of the defense he's making on you, so if you flipped town, I would have to re-evaluate. I believe both shopkeeps are benign third parties. Just the way they are both skirting around the edges, I could see them having some sort of internal competition going on that flavors their win cons, but I don't think either are flat out scum. I think a lot pins on your flip actually. If you are scum or town I have a good idea where to go, without your flip I am a bit listless. Circl reads a lot worse if you are town, and drat near cleared if you are scum. I can see that claim happening as a scum tracker getting a gift dropped in their lap. Especially how they pulled off of the gas.
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Sep 12, 2022 14:48
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That's the problem with today in general. No one that wants to flip me is bothering to lay out reads elsewhere or consider what happens in the world I flip. And not just "do you agree with my case" on anyone - just where any of your heads are at in general. If you vote me, I will flip town. And when I do you're going to have to look elsewhere. And if the lot of you just have lame duck explanations like "Well, we should have killed ASF", then we have another RWC situation on our hands where scum can veil their intentions in not voting scum!ASF today. And who knows, maybe you guys don't even push ASF tomorrow. But the point is that not enough of you are actually putting your accountability out there.
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Sep 12, 2022 14:51
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I'd rather asf here ##vote asf PsychoSoldier is contributing good content, this is not remotely a lylo situation and we can reevaluate later.
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Sep 12, 2022 14:56
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I will gladly vote asf if psycho doesn’t happen. I’m voting psycho based on content and night actions.
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Sep 12, 2022 14:56
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Grandicap posted:My short list is: Why does Circl read worse if Psycho is town? He didn't even try to kill Psycho, he just prompted him to claim his action which I think was entirely reasonable.
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Sep 12, 2022 14:57
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Grandicap posted:My short list is: Don't bury Circl after I flip. The fact he backed off makes him townier in my eyes because if he's scum, he can just push the claim and I probably would have been hammered. It would have been completely understandable because I didn't deny targeting Spork so his info is true, regardless of my alignment. I don't think he backs off to vote ASF of all people(who I firmly believe is scum) in that world. He could have parked his vote and been like "I'll consider it," but he went to joining the same wagon I was pushing at first. I don't think Never pushes RWC like that if he's scum. Never, Wind, Neo, and Circl were instrumental in even making the RWC wagon a thing and never backed off. You're telling me they just threw their double voting Godfather under the bus on d1 instead of pushing for "one more day" so he could get investigated or something?
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Sep 12, 2022 14:58
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binus what about psycho's content is worth a vote to you other than that d1 ping you bring up
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Sep 12, 2022 14:58
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b-minus1 posted:I will gladly vote asf if psycho doesn’t happen. I’m voting psycho based on content and night actions. Explain what content
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Sep 12, 2022 14:58
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b-minus1 posted:I will gladly vote asf if psycho doesn’t happen. I’m voting psycho based on content and night actions. Yeah, well, Psycho has content and as far as I'm concerned ASF doesn't have any content whatsoever. I think it's a no-brainer to vote out ASF first, everyone in the world can deal with Psycho tonight and tomorrow if they aren't convinced he's town and that's fine by me. Plus, look at it this way. If Psycho is scum, what good does copying HCT's role do if he's just going to get wagoned again tomorrow? I assume he can't copy and use HCT's role at the same time, so I doubt it's a problem. I want to hear his read on HCT after he copies the role, because regardless of Psycho's alignment that information will be extremely useful for reading HCT later on, once Psycho does actually flip.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:00
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Seriously, though, Cloacamazing was right there as a valid option. So was I. Those four could have given reason to swap, but stayed steady on RWC. Maybe Cloacamazing is scum and that explains it, but even then, RWC is a pretty strong role. And I know for a fact Cloacamazing's role is not a role worth sacrificing your double godfather after I scanned her.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:00
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PsychoSoldier posted:Don't bury Circl after I flip. The fact he backed off makes him townier in my eyes because if he's scum, he can just push the claim and I probably would have been hammered. It would have been completely understandable because I didn't deny targeting Spork so his info is true, regardless of my alignment. I don't think he backs off to vote ASF of all people(who I firmly believe is scum) in that world. He could have parked his vote and been like "I'll consider it," but he went to joining the same wagon I was pushing at first. Actually, I think Circl's vote is currently on CPig - and it didn't look like it was a committed vote just yet, nor was his vote on you when he outed his track, because he hasn't unvoted before voting in any of his posts today. So he's not committed yet to whoever he wants to vote.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:02
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Actually, this makes sense. I just said I don't think ASF and Psycho are scum together. I think a Psycho flip provides more info, but a scum ASF flip will very much slide me away from going after Psycho tomorrow.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:02
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a psycho town flip would be the scum team's dream version of having their lawyer send evidence during discovery, but also 300 boxes full of other random documents
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Sep 12, 2022 15:03
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And it's not a if Psycho is town then Circl is scum. It does make them look worse in my eyes, but it was the counterbalance to if Psycho is scum Circl is someone I will never vote, ever.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:04
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PsychoSoldier posted:Talk about your reads other than me. You are relying on a claim and absolutely nothing else. The moment I flip, people are gonna read my case on you and realize your entire posting history is too thin to be anything other than scum. My reads are that you're scum, you're posting a lot to look like a productive player to get past the fact that you were tracked to a kill. I'm somewhat suspect on Windward and Neverhelm for posting with you and acting like this is anything other than activity for the sake of activity, but hey we'll see when you flip.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:04
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PsychoSoldier posted:Seriously, though, Cloacamazing was right there as a valid option. So was I. Those four could have given reason to swap, but stayed steady on RWC. Maybe Cloacamazing is scum and that explains it, but even then, RWC is a pretty strong role. And I know for a fact Cloacamazing's role is not a role worth sacrificing your double godfather after I scanned her. At least that matches up with what she said, lol She brought up my post that I made earlier about her only being scum if her role is better than RWC's, and said her role is definitely not. Ofc she could be lying, but if you're confirming this, then that makes two people who say her role isn't some sort of amazing scum power. And if you're not scum together, then I fully believe the theory that her role isn't OP.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:04
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also someone brought up a good point on binus, that he mentioned liking my case on rwc but never voted there d1. In past games town binus when agreeing with me pretty often casually votes with me. Not necessarily a scum tell but definitely souring me on him a bit
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Sep 12, 2022 15:04
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Nep-Nep posted:a psycho town flip would be the scum team's dream version of having their lawyer send evidence during discovery, but also 300 boxes full of other random documents Lmao
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Sep 12, 2022 15:05
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Grandicap posted:And it's not a if Psycho is town then Circl is scum. It does make them look worse in my eyes, but it was the counterbalance to if Psycho is scum Circl is someone I will never vote, ever. Ah ok, gotcha, that makes sense. And yeah, ftr I agree with that.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:05
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WindwardAway posted:Actually, I think Circl's vote is currently on CPig - and it didn't look like it was a committed vote just yet, nor was his vote on you when he outed his track, because he hasn't unvoted before voting in any of his posts today. So he's not committed yet to whoever he wants to vote. It is, but I meant his initial move was to join me and you on ASF, which if they're partnered and has every reason to vote me, I'm not sure why he would ever do that. And keeping his mind open just kind of further proves my point. Hell, in the world ASF is town, deciding to vote CPig instead of just flipping back to me or pushing harder on ASF is a good look too.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:05
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A Sometimes Food posted:My reads are that you're scum, you're posting a lot to look like a productive player to get past the fact that you were tracked to a kill. I'm somewhat suspect on Windward and Neverhelm for posting with you and acting like this is anything other than activity for the sake of activity, but hey we'll see when you flip. Ah yes, sorry, I'm such a potato wolf that I would expend all of my thread energy defending a partner and aiding with another partner. Wow, I know you haven't seen my scum game, but I'm not that bad, lmao. I do have a pretty good awareness of what looks partnered or not; I would never be that careless.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:07
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@Circl, are you ok with me throwing a jail at you randomly over the next few days, robs us of an investigation, but should make scum at least think twice about going after you? I already plan on hitting myself with it sporadically too.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:08
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@A Sometimes Food: you accuse Neverhelm and me of posting for the sake of activity, but really, are you doing any better? What are you posting about that hasn't already been said? Are you contributing any unique ideas to help us solve, or to help us find you as town? Cause I don't think you are. You're gonna have to do a hell of a lot more convincing if you want me to believe you're town.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:09
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A Sometimes Food posted:My reads are that you're scum, you're posting a lot to look like a productive player to get past the fact that you were tracked to a kill. I'm somewhat suspect on Windward and Neverhelm for posting with you and acting like this is anything other than activity for the sake of activity, but hey we'll see when you flip. This is just proving my point. Literally no reads other than I'm scum and two people defending me are scum. No independent reads outside of relying on the zeitgeist push of the day and only looking at it one way.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:09
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WindwardAway posted:@A Sometimes Food: you accuse Neverhelm and me of posting for the sake of activity, but really, are you doing any better? What are you posting about that hasn't already been said? Are you contributing any unique ideas to help us solve, or to help us find you as town? Cause I don't think you are. You're gonna have to do a hell of a lot more convincing if you want me to believe you're town. Wait actually he was accusing Psycho of posting for the sake of activity, not Never or me, oops But point still stands I think ASF is posting for the sake of activity 🤷
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Sep 12, 2022 15:25
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If I'm tunneling on Psycho, it's cause the fact that we're even really arguing about this has kinda got me bewildered. I don't have other reads cause as far as I'm concerned the only concerning posters are Psycho and the people supporting them. If Psycho somehow ain't scum at least one of you is. Everyone else is middling, I guess I'm skeptical of the merchants, but they are probably 3p. WindwardAway posted:Ah yes, sorry, I'm such a potato wolf that I would expend all of my thread energy defending a partner and aiding with another partner. I'm low content, I'm an easy low risk target. Also fwiw, I dont think you're all scum. But if I get lunched today, I'll flip town and then I assume Psycho goes tomorrow. If Psycho is also town then no one in either vote is really implicated.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:31
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A Sometimes Food posted:If I'm tunneling on Psycho, it's cause the fact that we're even really arguing about this has kinda got me bewildered. I don't have other reads cause as far as I'm concerned the only concerning posters are Psycho and the people supporting them. If Psycho somehow ain't scum at least one of you is. I'm sorry...what? if Psycho isn't scum then at least one of his defenders is, but if he flips town then nobody is implicated? That's two completely opposite takes in the exact same post. I call bullshit, tbh.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:40
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A Sometimes Food posted:If I'm tunneling on Psycho, it's cause the fact that we're even really arguing about this has kinda got me bewildered. I don't have other reads cause as far as I'm concerned the only concerning posters are Psycho and the people supporting them. If Psycho somehow ain't scum at least one of you is. Would that not make it a scum-plan if both of us flip town? Like if we're both town, I'd immediately question everything I believe and look at the people pushing you. If you have suspicion of Wind and Never for pushing against you with me, then I'd be wondering if scum tried to split up and push two wagons that are town all day.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:42
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A Sometimes Food posted:If I'm tunneling on Psycho, it's cause the fact that we're even really arguing about this has kinda got me bewildered. I don't have other reads cause as far as I'm concerned the only concerning posters are Psycho and the people supporting them. If Psycho somehow ain't scum at least one of you is.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:44
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Also, you don't have any reads other than me despite the fact you've been calling for Cloacamazing's head all game before this phase? You talked about it as part of your defense for not voting RWC, but have said absolutely nothing about where your read on her is now. Not to mention plenty has happened and we had a wolf flip, and the only thing you have a read on is the tracker claim?
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Sep 12, 2022 15:45
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