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Comrade Fakename posted:It's a bit weird that Americans have trouble understanding this when their system works the same? When Nixon resigned, Gerald Ford became president. But Ford was an appointee after the elected VP Spiro Agnew resigned. So no one had voted for the president. They had an election two-and-a-bit years later, as previously scheduled. And that's the one time that's ever happened. The one time America has ever had a President who wasn't elected to either President or Vice President. It was kind of a big deal. And he lost that next election (though that's probably because he pardoned Nixon). edit: What a terrible snipe for the UKMT thread.
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Oct 20, 2022 14:53
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has anyone said piss trust yet
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Oct 20, 2022 14:53
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Shogeton posted:The way I see it, what you actually vote on is 'This person is the one I choose to represent my interests in Parliament' And part of the power that MP is entrusted with is picking who gets to be the Prime Minister. So doesn't matter how many prime ministers resign, as long as the person you have voted for, your MP is still sitting there, your vote is still being honoured. This may be the reality of how it works, but there comes a point at which their party has clearly shown that its not fit to govern anymore, and that was literally months, if not years ago. Continuing on is not only damaging for their party, its damaging for the entire county and they really cant ignore that anymore. General elections have been called for far less than this. In regards to Boris running again, are they having a loving laugh?
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Oct 20, 2022 14:53
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Shogeton posted:The way I see it, what you actually vote on is 'This person is the one I choose to represent my interests in Parliament' And part of the power that MP is entrusted with is picking who gets to be the Prime Minister. So doesn't matter how many prime ministers resign, as long as the person you have voted for, your MP is still sitting there, your vote is still being honoured. This is an example of the million "well technically" aspects of UK politics that are a wink and a nudge rather than how it actually works. For one the implication is that your MP actually has this level of meaningful power, which ignores the whip system and any personal ambition that they might have in voting for a potential leader. It's entirely unsurprising that the population as a whole is increasingly disengaged from electoral politics when every time a situation that highlights undemocratic aspects of the system arises, there's people explaining that it's actually fine that a person can be elected by a small group, change policy not only in a "switched some plans" but explicitly against simple promises (like "no fracking"), totally gently caress up the economy, and then bail out for the next person that you will have no say in.
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Oct 20, 2022 14:53
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Comrade Fakename posted:It's a bit weird that Americans have trouble understanding this when their system works the same? When Nixon resigned, Gerald Ford became president. But Ford was an appointee after the elected VP Spiro Agnew resigned. So no one had voted for the president. They had an election two-and-a-bit years later, as previously scheduled. I don't think it's a matter of "not understanding" so much as it's a matter of saying "these systems loving suck"
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Oct 20, 2022 14:54
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ItohRespectArmy posted:has anyone said piss trust yet
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Oct 20, 2022 14:54
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truly, we are living in the banter timeline
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Oct 20, 2022 14:55
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Democracy can be a lovely system and yet the alternatives are far worse
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Oct 20, 2022 14:55
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Lady Gaza posted:truly, we are living in the banter timeline
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Oct 20, 2022 14:55
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Comrade Fakename posted:It's a bit weird that Americans have trouble understanding this when their system works the same? When Nixon resigned, Gerald Ford became president. But Ford was an appointee after the elected VP Spiro Agnew resigned. So no one had voted for the president. They had an election two-and-a-bit years later, as previously scheduled. feel like the difference is that we know outright that American democracy is a rigged fraud between Gestalt Hitler 2 and his controlled opposition it's just surprising to see a public that has successfully demanded and won policies left of American policies also suffer so
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Oct 20, 2022 14:56
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Kemi Badenoch expected to run as Conservative party leader Kemi Badenoch is also likely to put herself forward. An ally said: It should not be a coronation; the party needs to think about generational change and making sure the next person comes without baggage.
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Oct 20, 2022 14:56
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Hobo posted:It really isn't. This is looking far too deep into the topic. It is supposed to be an easy way to describe it to Americans. I am not saying that Pelosi is the Prime Minister of the USA. Both are elected into a lower house via a constituency. Both are appointed by members of the lower house as a representative of the house. If either resigns their post as that representative of that house, there is no impact on their constituency seat - they are free to serve the remainder of their term as an MP/Representative. If, upon resignation, a new member replaces them there is no requirement to call an election, regardless of if there is a set date or someone has the power to. Again, this is a quick comparison to explain to Americans why there isn't going to be a GE, not a comparison of the duty of the role within legislature.
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Oct 20, 2022 14:56
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OwlFancier posted:The power of the executive is with parliament, via the magic mace or whatever, but the point is they just pick someone to push the actual buttons, the UK political system has not considered it very important to restrict the executive power to a specific person via elections, and it's weird to me that we now suddenly do need to do that just because people watch too much american TV and think that's how it works. Imagine voting for people to do jobs, like an American.
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Oct 20, 2022 14:56
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Seth Pecksniff posted:Democracy can be a lovely system and yet the alternatives are far worse
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Oct 20, 2022 14:57
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Potato Salad posted:feel like the difference is that we know outright that American democracy is a rigged fraud between Gestalt Hitler 2 and his controlled opposition They haven't had any interest in doing that in the last several decades. The public that did that are not the ones that are alive now.
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Oct 20, 2022 14:57
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FiftySeven posted:This may be the reality of how it works, but there comes a point at which their party has clearly shown that its not fit to govern anymore, and that was literally months, if not years ago. Continuing on is not only damaging for their party, its damaging for the entire county and they really cant ignore that anymore. General elections have been called for far less than this. While true and reasonable, have you considered that they don't have to and they don't want to
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Oct 20, 2022 14:57
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Salad days ahead for the UK.
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Oct 20, 2022 14:57
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It's not even saying "democracy is lovely" as if this were the one true version of a democratic system. Especially odd given that the critique is essentially that the system is not democratic enough, not that the democratic part is the issue. It's not like you see people suggesting that the Lords should have supreme power (aside from weird FBPE libs briefly).
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Oct 20, 2022 14:57
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:From whence did this gangtag originate? Because it's surely relevant again.
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Oct 20, 2022 14:57
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Crymetimeboys posted:Kemi Badenoch expected to run as Conservative party leader
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Oct 20, 2022 14:57
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Man I'm away from my computer half a day and incredible scenes happened yet again.
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Oct 20, 2022 14:57
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Cimber posted:Thanks for that writeup. Sounds like a real shitshow, sorry you guys are going through it. On the fracking issue, does that mean fracking is now unbanned? Its in the air because while its not currently banned, in practice- who knows will be in number 10 next and what their opinions will be on it? So its not really a great environment for businesses to be pushing ahead on it.
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Oct 20, 2022 14:58
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a pipe smoking dog posted:https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1583091554574831617?t=UomCmDfGY44-CXmmXyj2MQ&s=19 
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Oct 20, 2022 14:59
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Chinese Gordon posted:I know. I'd be more surprised if she *didn't* run. There will be a candidate for the lunatic wing to coalesce around (again) and if that candidate is allowed through to the completely unhinged membership (again) then we are truly in Cool Zone territory(again?). She'll get Farage's seal of approval then when Boris wins Farage will demand a "real" conservative party.
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Oct 20, 2022 14:59
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Democracy is the least bad of all options, sure - but despite Usania claiming to export democracy to countries that just happen to have a lot of oil, they don't practice it themselves. Oh I don't deny this at all - we're supposed to be the beacon of democracy and yet! Sorry, don't want to turn this thread into an American-centric one (overtly, that's why we have the CIA  )
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Oct 20, 2022 14:59
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Tesseraction posted:Man I'm away from my computer half a day and incredible scenes happened yet again. Alternatively, stay the gently caress away from it.
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Oct 20, 2022 14:59
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Nilbop posted:A reminder that, as a proper function of your state, you've got a king and an unelected house of parliament. Technically not true these days!
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Oct 20, 2022 14:59
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Tesseraction posted:Man I'm away from my computer half a day and incredible scenes happened yet again. Britain is producing an enormous surplus of absolute scenes
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Oct 20, 2022 15:00
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thrawn527 posted:And that's the one time that's ever happened. The one time America has ever had a President who wasn't elected to either President or Vice President. It was kind of a big deal. And he lost that next election (though that's probably because he pardoned Nixon). Sure, but America has even more hard-coded elections than we do. I don't know if there's any procedure for having an election outside of the traditional 4-year cycle at all. It's quite well known that if the Pres and the VP are removed somehow, the Speaker of the House is next in succession, even if they're from a different party. The fact that it's even possible for a new election to be called here is more responsive to current events than the US system.
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Oct 20, 2022 15:00
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It doesn’t seem unreasonable at all to me to describe the position of PM to Americans as being “like if the Speaker of the House had the President’s powers and responsibilities” for example
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Oct 20, 2022 15:00
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a pipe smoking dog posted:Britain is producing an enormous surplus of absolute scenes It’s on only fair that we get to produce the content once in a while.
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Oct 20, 2022 15:01
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Reveilled posted:It doesn’t seem unreasonable at all to me to describe the position of PM to Americans as being “like if the Speaker of the House had the President’s powers and responsibilities” for example This would be the correct way to explain it to ignorant yanks, yes.
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Oct 20, 2022 15:01
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a pipe smoking dog posted:Britain is producing an enormous surplus of absolute scenes Finally something to boost our export trade
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Oct 20, 2022 15:01
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quote:Russia’s foreign ministry has welcomed the departure of Liz Truss as British prime minister, describing her as a “disgrace” of a leader who will be remembered for her “catastrophic illiteracy”. 
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Oct 20, 2022 15:02
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Comrade Fakename posted:Sure, but America has even more hard-coded elections than we do. I don't know if there's any procedure for having an election outside of the traditional 4-year cycle at all. It's quite well known that if the Pres and the VP are removed somehow, the Speaker of the House is next in succession, even if they're from a different party. The fact that it's even possible for a new election to be called here is more responsive to current events than the US system. There is no constitutional mechanism in the US to break the four year cycle, no matter what happens to the current occupant(s) of the office(s) Even if the Speaker can't take the mantle, it then devolves to the Senate Pro Tem and then members of the cabinet in order of when the office was established
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Oct 20, 2022 15:02
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NinpoEspiritoSanto posted:It's not a loving presidency ffs People vote for the manifesto as much as the mp as much as the leadership. Pretending its otherwise when convenient is just 
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Oct 20, 2022 15:03
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Skull Servant posted:This is looking far too deep into the topic. It is supposed to be an easy way to describe it to Americans. I am not saying that Pelosi is the Prime Minister of the USA. Yeah and you're choosing an "easy way" that is entirely inaccurate and misleading. The election is not run on the premise of a particular Rep being Speaker of the House. The role of the speaker is not the same as the PM, which is the whole point of the issue. If it were then it wouldn't be an issue! There not being a strict requirement to run an election is entirely meaningless in the UK context since there is basically no strict requirement to do anything, it's all based on convention and legitimacy. If you want a useful explanation to Americans as to why there isn't going to be a GE, the only meaningfully correct answer is "the Tories don't want to have one because they would lose."
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Oct 20, 2022 15:04
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Comrade Fakename posted:Sure, but America has even more hard-coded elections than we do. I don't know if there's any procedure for having an election outside of the traditional 4-year cycle at all. It's quite well known that if the Pres and the VP are removed somehow, the Speaker of the House is next in succession, even if they're from a different party. The fact that it's even possible for a new election to be called here is more responsive to current events than the US system. Oh this is also true. I, as an American, don't understand when you guys have elections. Seems like every once in a while someone announces, "Eh, how about next week?"
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Oct 20, 2022 15:04
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Crymetimeboys posted:Kemi Badenoch expected to run as Conservative party leader Extraordinary. Openly acknowledging that what they're doing looks like coronation and making sure that a GE doesn't happen.
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Oct 20, 2022 15:05
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The main complaint I have with the presidential idea is that I really don't think it helps? The yanks have that and they're just as hosed up as we are. They vote for a lot of things that are loving stupid, like judges.thrawn527 posted:Oh this is also true. I, as an American, don't understand when you guys have elections. Seems like every once in a while someone announces, "Eh, how about next week?" At least every five years, but yes otherwise whenever the government feels like it.
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Oct 20, 2022 15:06
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