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Futaba being a romance option is just kind of weird for several reasons mostly stemming from her lack of socialization. Given that there's a bunch of dialogue options where you can refer to her as "family" or "basically [your] sister," it's really weird from a writing standpoint that she seems interested in you at first and you basically have to trick her into thinking she doesn't like you to not romance her instead of her romance being something that the player has to initiate. But having the player initiate at all would also cause potentially even worse issues, because she's so poorly socialized that there's no way to make it not come off as skeevy that the person helping her come out of her shell is saying he's into her. That undercurrent is there in the existing version, but it's not quite as blatant because, again, she's the one who brings it up. e: to be clear, my point with the "family" stuff is that the player might not agree with the read that they view Joker and Futaba as family members, so presumably they won't pick those options referring to Futaba as such if they wanted to romance her. The way it exists in the game, though, removes that choice because Futaba likes you no matter what and it kinda ruins the family read if a player was going for that instead. Arist fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Nov 15, 2022 |
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Nov 15, 2022 23:19
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 06:25 |
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I think the issue is definitely more that Joker just gets a bunch of really lovely dialogue options for initiating or not initiating the romance that make him come off as at best completely oblivious and at worst weirdly dickish. Like with Ann at the end of her rank 9 she asks who she'll have to turn to for support once Shiho moves away and your answers are "You have me" (romance) and "You have the others" (no romance). "You have the others" is such a weird way for it to be phrased and makes it sound like Joker isn't interested in supporting Ann in any capacity - even as a friend - and she should just gently caress off and bug Ryuji or something. Just changing it to something like you have us, you have your friends, etc would make the whole thing flow way less awkwardly. Royal cleaned up a lot of the localization issues from vanilla but it's still really awkward in the way it phrases things in some places, and that seems to be on full display in the romance choice scene for whatever reason.
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Nov 15, 2022 23:27
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Yeah. Like there are ways you could write it but P5 is not it or even close to it. Like if the pop was more 'Futaba has a well defined personality under her anxiety and by spending time with her you get to see the real her as she gets more comfy opening up' that might be less skeevy, but in game terms the big accomplishment is 'she can go outside without being entirely overwhelmed.' And even that would be frigging weird with the character who is so obviously viewed and treated as a little sister'
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Nov 15, 2022 23:28
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tbh a lot of the relationship writing is pretty out-of-nowhere, even with someone like Makoto it kind of appears out of nowhere when she admits "idk poo poo about romance bruh" in comparison to how organic the Hifumi or even Kasumi relationships develop. It's not as bad as Ann's but it's not formulated as well, even if the game seems to push you and Makoto together often anyway. The Ryuji confidant path might be the most meaningful development in terms of character drive, purpose, and friendship. Yusuke is so loving weird I can only laugh as he collapses in an art show and I button mash "loving stand up, Yusuke." Kawakami's whole thing is made even worse with how she just lazily lies about why she needed money and then it just becomes a deeply uncomfortable situation. Out of all the "adult relationships" somehow Tae's comes off the least weird, even if she's the pain-fetish play-doctor one. If you romance Futaba you should get arrested by Akechi lol. Going further on this, on replay of P5 I really do feel that at the very least, P5's friend group isn't as moronic as the P4 group, who come off as dumbbells incapable of even cooking meals. Kanji is so stupid he winds back around to being awesome but the others just seem very dumb compared to the team of logical junior detectives in P5 with Makoto/Akechi/sometimes Yusuke. On the flipside sometimes this means they come off as too terse, and it really hits home once you take turns hanging out with Futaba post-Palace--Makoto and Yusuke have no idea how to make small talk while Ryuji/Ann do far better just by virtue of being generally more casual people. In conclusion I hope P6 gives us adult characters instead a la Yakuza Like A Dragon so we can finally get a deadbeat dad Persona user, because I was upset Sojiro never got to join you
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Nov 15, 2022 23:40
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DLC Inc posted:tbh a lot of the relationship writing is pretty out-of-nowhere, even with someone like Makoto it kind of appears out of nowhere when she admits "idk poo poo about romance bruh" in comparison to how organic the Hifumi or even Kasumi relationships develop. It's not as bad as Ann's but it's not formulated as well, even if the game seems to push you and Makoto together often anyway. The Ryuji confidant path might be the most meaningful development in terms of character drive, purpose, and friendship. Yusuke is so loving weird I can only laugh as he collapses in an art show and I button mash "loving stand up, Yusuke." Play Strikers. You get exactly that.
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Nov 15, 2022 23:47
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I don't think we're likely to get a Persona game with adult party members again, but if P6 takes anything from Like a Dragon then I wanna sing karaoke with my party members
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Nov 15, 2022 23:51
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ImpAtom posted:Play Strikers. You get exactly that. Strikers also just has a way better dynamic for the entire main cast in general, even discounting what Zenkichi and Sophie bring to the table.
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Nov 15, 2022 23:54
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah. Like there are ways you could write it but P5 is not it or even close to it. P5 does it poorly but I think I wouldn’t trust most media to thread that particular needle. Futaba has been a shut-in with zero interpersonal experience with people her own age for years so it makes complete sense that she would immediately have strong feelings for someone who did something as big as “saved her from her shadow self” and wants to help her overcome her anxiety. Many teen dramas would immediately go with the “and then they fell in love” choice so maybe the simple fact that you can go the “no, we are not doing that” route is notable. But this game is too enamored of the “girl with no romantic experience falls for first boy who isn’t a complete creep” trope to not make it an option there too. Futaba is the most extreme example but it applies to all the appropriately aged romantic options. Ann is edit: the answer to almost every story problem with P5 is “just play Strikers” DC Murderverse fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Nov 15, 2022 |
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Nov 15, 2022 23:55
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DC Murderverse posted:But this game is too enamored of the “girl with no romantic experience falls for first boy who isn’t a complete creep” trope to not make it an option there too. Futaba is the most extreme example but it applies to all the appropriately aged romantic options. Ann is Yeah the obsession with all the non-adult confidants being pure as snow innocents who've never even so much as held hands with a boy before is on eye-rolling display. And like I get it: the target audience for the game is largely young adult male virgins so the waifus must be pure, but still. DC Murderverse posted:the answer to almost every story problem with P5 is “just play Strikers” 
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Nov 16, 2022 00:10
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I saw this posted and I thought this is the perfect gift for fellow Akechi fans who have everything already. 
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Nov 16, 2022 00:21
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Alder posted:I saw this posted and I thought this is the perfect gift for fellow Akechi fans who have everything already. Where’s my Sojiro “Coffee ‘n’ Curry” candle?
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Nov 16, 2022 00:22
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Alder posted:I saw this posted and I thought this is the perfect gift for fellow Akechi fans who have everything already. ah, an idiot-scented candle
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Nov 16, 2022 00:30
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Alder posted:I saw this posted and I thought this is the perfect gift for fellow Akechi fans who have everything already. Better smell like pancakes and blood
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Nov 16, 2022 01:02
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DC Murderverse posted:Where’s my Sojiro “Coffee ‘n’ Curry” candle? This would be ideal. But at least I know that Joker smells really good now and that's why everyone wants to jump his bones
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Nov 16, 2022 01:51
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Strength affects regular melee attacks, right? Not that the game is demanding this kind of min maxing, but how would I work out whether or not a weapon with 140 attack is better than one with 130 attack that also raises strength by 3? The strength will also affect melee skills, but I just mean in terms of non-skill attacks. e:btw, is there a general SMT thread as well?
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Nov 16, 2022 01:57
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Unfortunately I’ve already used up my “Video Game-inspired candles” budget for the year otherwise that Makoto one sounds interesting. (The Ann one was exactly what I predicted it would be but also is basically like 5 other candles I’ve had before)
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Nov 16, 2022 02:12
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Is there a way to reorganize abilities of party members' personas like you can your own? Edit: 
explosivo fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Nov 16, 2022 |
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Nov 16, 2022 02:50
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explosivo posted:Is there a way to reorganize abilities of party members' personas like you can your own? Stats>[party member]>Persona
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Nov 16, 2022 02:56
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Ytlaya posted:The thing that bugs me the most about the romance options is the fact that many of the social links involve the person in question obviously being interested in Joker regardless of what you choose, to the extent where you're forced to reject them (and IIRC sometimes in pretty lovely ways where you just sort of blow them off instead of directly acknowledging the situation). I feel like I remember this being bad for Haru, Ann, and Futaba (though there are also a bunch of other issues with Futaba). It's specifically only Haru and Kasumi who clearly have a romantic attraction to Joker, Ann and Makoto could be read that way, and Futaba's whole thing is well a thing, but Haru and Kasumi are clearly crushing on the boy in their respective "romance or not options". At least by my read.
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Nov 16, 2022 03:03
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Rinkles posted:e:btw, is there a general SMT thread as well? Behold, the Megami Tensei Megathread
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Nov 16, 2022 03:05
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Rinkles posted:Strength affects regular melee attacks, right? Not that the game is demanding this kind of min maxing, but how would I work out whether or not a weapon with 140 attack is better than one with 130 attack that also raises strength by 3? The strength will also affect melee skills, but I just mean in terms of non-skill attacks. https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Damage#Persona_5_/_Royal Raw Melee damage = √[Weapon Damage Stat] * √[Str Stat], so in other words a point of weapon damage adds exactly the same amount to the melee attack damage calc as a point of STR. So in your scenario the 140 weapon is better than 130 + 3 STR.
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Nov 16, 2022 03:07
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Lord_Magmar posted:It's specifically only Haru and Kasumi who clearly have a romantic attraction to Joker, Ann and Makoto could be read that way, and Futaba's whole thing is well a thing, but Haru and Kasumi are clearly crushing on the boy in their respective "romance or not options". Yeah, the others are kind of "Oh, well" but Haru seems genuinely really sad and Kasumi flat-out asks you to date her.
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Nov 16, 2022 03:07
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I'm in the it's totally normal for Futaba to have a crush on Joker camp, and even that it would be weird if she didn't since he's obviously the person this severely socially deprived person is most comfortable being around (on top of at least figuratively and maybe literally saving her life), but also that it's by far the most uncomfortable romance in the game and the only one I could never see myself doing because it feels really hosed up to take advantage of someone in that position even if that's very much what they think they want. I think the sister thing is a bit overstated since they're not related, didn't grow up together, and aren't even under the same roof (and I don't think Sojiro is really that much of a parent to Joker), but it is a little bit of extra weirdness added on top. Add in that she hasn't started high school yet, even if she's only technically a year younger than Joker, and the whole thing could barely be more of a red flag if they tried.
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Nov 16, 2022 03:15
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Joker should date Newspaper Girl
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Nov 16, 2022 03:24
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Joker should date someone who works at Vegetariano, for the aojiru connect
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Nov 16, 2022 03:31
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Sojiro literally asks you not to date Futaba at one point I think.
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Nov 16, 2022 03:54
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mmkay posted:The music really is a banger, I'm up to the 5th Palace and every time I just manually go to the treasure when it's time to steal it, because Life Will Change is amazing. Has a ways to go to dethrone the king.
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Nov 16, 2022 03:59
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Sojiro literally asks you not to date Futaba at one point I think. And then he says it might be fine if you dated Futaba. He doesn't tell you not to date her because she's fragile or socially awkward she tells you not to date her because he is her dad and protective of her like a dad.
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Nov 16, 2022 04:31
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the Vince meme but it's Wake Up Get Out There, Life Will Change, Life Will Change Vocal ver, I Believe
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Nov 16, 2022 04:37
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Lord_Magmar posted:It's specifically only Haru and Kasumi who clearly have a romantic attraction to Joker, Ann and Makoto could be read that way, and Futaba's whole thing is well a thing, but Haru and Kasumi are clearly crushing on the boy in their respective "romance or not options". This is why I like Makoto's arc. You sort of test date and you can decide (or not) that you had actual chemistry.
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Nov 16, 2022 05:05
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being a grown rear end man trying to figure out which hornies are inappropriate for my simulated teenage life is rife with challenges. Maybe that's why I will never find my perfect waifu
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Nov 16, 2022 05:51
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Even if you don't see Futaba as family, her social link is literally a list of activities that she used as a child to get Good Girl Points.
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Nov 16, 2022 06:00
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Of all of the options I think Makoto is the one who won’t ever be able to find someone to compliment her better than Joker, she’s a narc who needs someone to encourage her to not be a narc without being an rear end in a top hat. i think the same is probably true of Yusuke too because he needs someone to tether him to the real world which I think Joker helps him with
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Nov 16, 2022 06:49
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DC Murderverse posted:Of all of the options I think Makoto is the one who won’t ever be able to find someone to compliment her better than Joker, she’s a narc who needs someone to encourage her to not be a narc without being an rear end in a top hat. Unfortunately though you get zero options to tell her that he dream of becoming a cop is dogshit, just various flavors of "that's a wonderful dream/your dad would be proud/etc".
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Nov 16, 2022 07:07
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Joker-Futaba is too Pygmalion to be a healthy relationship.
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Nov 16, 2022 07:08
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ngl if reversing arcana were still a thing in P5 I would absolutely reverse Makoto all the time, every time trying to spell out ACAB for her. Bonus points to Strikers where not only does her closest friend on the team in Haru constantly blow the pigs must die horn, but when she meets an actual career cop and tells him she wants to be one he goes "holy gently caress what is wrong with you do NOT become a cop, this poo poo sucks and we help nobody."
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Nov 16, 2022 07:13
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Makoto's destiny is to grow up into a side character in a Yakuza game.
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Nov 16, 2022 07:56
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she should have been a lawyer? maybe she can go to Germany and study. maybe meet a lady who's good with whips
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Nov 16, 2022 08:18
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Sydin posted:https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Damage#Persona_5_/_Royal What, no. If you have 100 dmg and 1 strength, adding a point in strength gives you a 40% boost, while another weapon damage gives you gently caress all. They're the same if they're equal to begin with.
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Nov 16, 2022 08:31
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The reason to date Futaba is because you get the option to call Sojiro dad and he's very quick to shut it down and that's funny.
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Nov 16, 2022 08:47
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