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IIRC from the last time I played through KOTOR 2 with the restoration patch Bao doesn't get much at all cause there wasn't much to salvage. If I'm thinking right it's incredibly easy to max out influence and turn him to a jedi by around the 2nd planet.
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Dec 20, 2022 23:51
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Bao-Dur suffers from a lot of different things. Most of it being that he is legit not complete. Even the restored content stuff doesn't complete him. He was apparently supposed to have a huge part of the Droid planet that never got past initial ideas, then he would help HK-47 infiltrate the HK-50 factory, and then die in the process. Even in the restored content stuff only part of this happens, and you only find out he died because you take control of his Remote and get this 'this is my last message, I'm trusting you remote.'
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Dec 21, 2022 00:07
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Mr E posted:IIRC from the last time I played through KOTOR 2 with the restoration patch Bao doesn't get much at all cause there wasn't much to salvage. If I'm thinking right it's incredibly easy to max out influence and turn him to a jedi by around the 2nd planet. *with a guide, because if you miss any of those, you're screwed** and can never recover the points. **out of accidentally making your crafting boy lose a whole bunch of skill points each level
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Dec 21, 2022 05:05
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I remember being hopelessly stuck one or two points short with Mira until I consulted endless guides to find out how to get the requisite point. Good character, by the way. I've wanted to replay KOTOR II sometime with more focus on her. I thought her "Jedi conversion scene" was a highlight of the whole game. It's just..Paragus. Fuckin' Paragus. Slogging through that is a pain in the rear end and killed my last run.
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Dec 21, 2022 05:22
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There's mods to skip Paragus but it only takes like 2 hours once you know how it goes.
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Dec 21, 2022 05:36
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Ginette Reno posted:Kreia and Durance are pretty unlikeable but they are well written characters. Avellone's best imo. Dear god. He was an interesting character conceptually, but his massive ranting lore dumps at the start of the game totally killed any desire I had to interact with him again.
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Dec 21, 2022 05:38
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Nefarious 2.0 posted:lotta people itt sound like the portal 2 playtesters who cried because glados was too mean to them. Also Kreia rules and while she has her faults obviously she's an incredibly interesting character. Solas is cool and he's one of Bioware's absolute best characters but I don't think he's quite on the level that Kreia is. It's close though. Granted very few Bioware characters are nearly as well written and interesting as Solas. Inquisition is great if you disengage with the open world poo poo and has some of the most interesting stuff in the franchise. Dreadwolf still has no hope of remotely being good even if it actually ever comes out RevolverDivider fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Dec 21, 2022 |
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Dec 21, 2022 05:41
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NikkolasKing posted:Lotta folks complain about the damned if you do, damned if you don't situation with the guy asking for a handout, but I was a lot angrier with the Jedi Master stuff. Which is funny, because there is a very simple way out of that event and it's to have your character say "Gee Kreia, you're right. Conflict defines us and I rob these people of their ability to grow if I do it all/rob myself of power if I just murk them instead of stealing their conflict to grow." Or in other words, the exact same thing you always do to keep her happy. I don't think you even get an alignment hit for it. Which makes it really funny when people talk about the games morality systems and how the bad guy options are always kick puppies.
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Dec 21, 2022 05:55
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KittyEmpress posted:There's mods to skip Paragus but it only takes like 2 hours once you know how it goes. "Only" 2 hours. That's never something that should be said about a lovely part of a video game. FoolyCharged posted:Which is funny, because there is a very simple way out of that event and it's to have your character say "Gee Kreia, you're right. Conflict defines us and I rob these people of their ability to grow if I do it all/rob myself of power if I just murk them instead of stealing their conflict to grow." I recall KOTOR II having better dark side and light side options than the first game. Like, significantly better. Yes you can still randomly kill people for no good reason but even if you try to pull poo poo like that, Kreia will tear into you. So you got good guy options, more morally ambiguous or at least rational evil options, and then puppykicking to round things out. KOTOR 1 was just puppykicking or boy scout. Also KOTOR 1 is painfully simplistic but BW clearly got a lot better later on. See the games this thread is supposed to be about. Except in DAI which offers no moral choices of any real value outside of choosing the ruler of Orlais.
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Dec 21, 2022 06:41
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NikkolasKing posted:"Only" 2 hours. That's never something that should be said about a lovely part of a video game. I beat KOTOR 1 recently and said something mean to Bastila when I killed her which made me dark side and locked me out of the robes I was wearing and meant I couldn'r beat Malak. I then reloaded and said something completely neutral to Bastila when I killed her and I guess it was just a-okay cause it didnt shift my alignment at all lmao
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Dec 21, 2022 07:31
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I've never played a game that both ascribed concrete morality to choices and also wasn't stupid about how it did it. Dragon Age does not tag your actions as objectively good or bad, but it still manages to put in a couple of "kill and then piss on the beggar's dog" for no reason. Mass Effects approach felt nice at first, with paragon/renegade being pitched not so much as "good" and "bad" but more, well, paragon and renegade. "Be compassionate" Vs "get poo poo done" is ostensibly fine,, but then some of the renegade choices are clearly just there because "well we have the paragon and the neutral choice, we gotta put in BAD COP" where you piss on a dog for no reason. Generally I'm never really into "being evil" as a roleplaying choice? Morally grey, prioritizing my welfare or my mission over that of others is one thing, but very few games pull off those choices in a convincing way.
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Dec 21, 2022 12:43
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Somehow it was the other way for me. Last time I played Kotor 1 I initially tried to be neutral (because I wanted to be Jedi Consular and use both Light and Dark Side powers without penalty) and at least on Taris I managed to strike a balance pretty well. You have to finish most quests in either good or evil way but I could always find in-character justification to do things differently and whenever I came across especially egregious dialogue options, there was usually some neutral way out. Then I got Force Dominate and started enjoying crushing puny minds so much that I went full Dark Side and never looked back  Otoh when I first played Kotor 2 what stood out to me was how bad the first couple of light/dark side dialogue options were and that there were no neutral options. I don't even remember if it gets better later, I only finished this game once and had mostly rough time. Phosphine posted:I've never played a game that both ascribed concrete morality to choices and also wasn't stupid about how it did it. Dragon Age does not tag your actions as objectively good or bad, but it still manages to put in a couple of "kill and then piss on the beggar's dog" for no reason. Not to mention whenever you do get a difficult and morally complex choice, the devs throw in the third option which makes everyone happy
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Dec 21, 2022 13:05
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There are two paths in any RPG, the right way which is the good aligned path and the evil path which is the wrong way with a wink from the developer. That's why you have so much orphan kicking for evil options.
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Dec 21, 2022 13:49
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I'm playing The Outer Worlds right now, and i'm not far enough into it to say if it's generally good, but one part so far was really good, to me. Depending on how much a fan of unfettered capitalism you are, it pretty clearly has a "good" side and a "bad" side. But choosing to help either fucks over a bunch of non-bad people, too, and there wasn't a clear "This is the right choice" as far as I could see, even playing as a "I want to help everyone I meet" goody two shoes I had to really think about what to do and not just "mash x for good". I didn't pick them but the less helpful conversation options also seemed to be oriented more along the lines of "Look i'm just here to get my thing done, i don't really care what happens to you" rather than "ahahahah die", so that was nice. There might be a secret third option where everyone is happy but if there is at least it was hard enough to find that I didn't pull it off, which is kinda nice, even if I prefer there simply not being one.
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Dec 21, 2022 14:02
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My Kotor experience was being the best boy scout all game except at the very end, accepting Bastila's offer. Carth running away is the funniest Kotor scene.
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Dec 21, 2022 15:59
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wologar posted:My Kotor experience was being the best boy scout all game except at the very end, accepting Bastila's offer. Carth running away is the funniest Kotor scene. I like Carth but if there is any real reason to hate him, it's the fact he abandoned a fourteen-year-old to a Sith Lord's mercy. Killing Mission was one of the saddest things I've ever done in a WRPG. I didn't want to but you have no choice.
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Dec 21, 2022 17:13
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NikkolasKing posted:"Only" 2 hours. That's never something that should be said about a lovely part of a video game. They did put in some good options for Kreia to still rip into you. Like that beggar who you simply can't positively effect.
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Dec 21, 2022 17:35
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Being evil in rpgs is cool if you aren't like, pointlessly and pettily cruel. Like Sauron doesnt go around just being rude to random beggars for asking for money. tbh that's what I sorta really like about Inquisition, you can make your inquisition a pretty evil overlordy type organization. Or with DAO, even though there are pointlessly cruel options, you can also just be sorta evil and motivated entirely by self-interest with how you use the treaties to just get a bunch of people on-board who are good at killing Darkspawn without caring how the world turns out afterwards. IMO playing like that also makes the hate the Grey Wardens get make more sense in universe as well
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Dec 21, 2022 17:48
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NikkolasKing posted:I like Carth but if there is any real reason to hate him, it's the fact he abandoned a fourteen-year-old to a Sith Lord's mercy. technically you don't have to since you can manipulate the life debt to make zaalbar do it in probably the most truly evil dark side choice in the entire game
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Dec 21, 2022 18:04
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Shugojin posted:technically you don't have to since you can manipulate the life debt to make zaalbar do it in probably the most truly evil dark side choice in the entire game Being an edgy 14 year old with my buddy and seeing how bad we could be, and then this option came up and we needed to go take a walk. 
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Dec 21, 2022 20:51
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I'd always do a lightside then a darkside playthrough and honestly even when playing Darkside I just couldn't bring myself to keep the wookiees enslaved. It felt too evil Let alone the mission stuff in KOTOR one gently caress that
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Dec 22, 2022 08:28
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Clearly I am a heartless bastard because I found it hilarious. I'm being uber evil for the entire game, have a hosed up face and all, and yet Mission refuses to acknowledge any of it. "You can't be Darth Revan, you're a good person!" "We'll beat Malak and save the galaxy, I just know it!" Well Mission, maybe NOW you'll take the hint Maybe I should specify that I knew you can do that beforehand so had a lot of time to brace myself for some child-killing. Also, I was in high school macabresca fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Dec 22, 2022 |
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Dec 22, 2022 10:03
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I've done a lot of evil things in RPGs but I'd never make Zaalbar kill Mission. Throwing knives in the back of a crippled old man's head as he hobbles away in terror is much better.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:16
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The best part about Dragon Age Origins is that you might have a giant hammer, a sword, or magic, but you know something truly brutal is about to happen when your character pulls out a knife.
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Dec 22, 2022 23:32
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All your characters constantly being covered in blood, Along with that being a relatively new thing in games, helped out a lot with that.
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Dec 22, 2022 23:39
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Xalidur posted:The best part about Dragon Age Origins is that you might have a giant hammer, a sword, or magic, but you know something truly brutal is about to happen when your character pulls out a knife. It's iconic across the series that it earned the moniker Murder Knife.
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Dec 22, 2022 23:43
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Skippy McPants posted:It's iconic across the series that it earned the moniker Murder Knife. wow you can dialogue-murder significantly more NPCs than I realized e: ah this list includes NPC-on-NPC murder knives. still. it's a lot.
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Dec 23, 2022 02:42
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Skippy McPants posted:It's iconic across the series that it earned the moniker Murder Knife. DAI really dropped the ball on murder knife options imho
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Dec 23, 2022 02:45
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Skippy McPants posted:It's iconic across the series that it earned the moniker Murder Knife. The fact that everyone, from the biggest warrior to the scrawniest mage comes equipped with this same knife just in case they need to shank someone with that personal touch was a favored part of the series to me.
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Dec 23, 2022 15:07
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I mean, it's so they can reuse stabbing animations. 
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Dec 24, 2022 01:02
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Murdering Mission using her lifelong companion is sad sure, but i think some of the absolutely worst evil options in any rpg are the ones in Planescape. Selling Dakkon into slavery or being emotionally manipulative and abusive to the spirit of your dead ex girlfriend (that you yourself got killed) is just gut wrenching
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Dec 24, 2022 14:34
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McCloud posted:Murdering Mission using her lifelong companion is sad sure, but i think some of the absolutely worst evil options in any rpg are the ones in Planescape. Selling Dakkon into slavery or being emotionally manipulative and abusive to the spirit of your dead ex girlfriend (that you yourself got killed) is just gut wrenching
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Dec 24, 2022 19:47
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yeah the evil choices in planescape torment are uhhhh most people haven't picked them i would bet gently caress knows i sure haven't i merely know of them
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Dec 24, 2022 22:21
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I enjoy being cartoonishly villainous in games and I couldn’t face an evil Planescape playthrough. It’s a much more human and gut wrenching dickishness than most games provide.
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Dec 24, 2022 22:42
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Going back to KOTOR talk for a second, I re-downloaded TSL and remembered why I can't just skip Paragus. Skipping Paragus is incompatible with the Restored Content mod and I don't think anybody plays KOTOR II these days without that mod. One of hte many reasons DA Origins is the best WRPG I've ever played is that its opening is actaully among its strongest points and not just crap you slog through. Multiple Origins could be whole games, they're so good and compelling.
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Dec 24, 2022 23:32
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Peragus is a decent opening your first play through, but a horror level you spend 99% of alone with minimal people to talk to is a bit off kilter for an opener to a game you're returning to because of all the dialogue.
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Dec 24, 2022 23:54
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I don't mind Peragus but mostly because I usually go years between Kotor playthroughs so by the time I play again I'm okay with it.
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Dec 25, 2022 02:56
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CottonWolf posted:I enjoy being cartoonishly villainous in games and I couldn’t face an evil Planescape playthrough. It’s a much more human and gut wrenching dickishness than most games provide. I think that's the key, really - cartoonish villainy kinda sucks when it's from an NPC bad guy (with important exceptions), but it's really the only way to do evil player characters. I want NPCs to react with horror, disgusted by actions, aghast even. But I don't want to break them!
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Dec 25, 2022 03:29
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Evil choices in general are lackluster not because they're different content but less content: killing half of your party in DAO doesn't make new, evil party members show up, it just means there are two people in your camp for the entire game who don't want to talk to you instead of six that do. The only evil choices that I could think of that actually led to alternate content are allying with the werewolves (which is funny because even they're confused by this) and siding with the dragon cultist guys at Haven. In DA2 I think most of the evil choices happen near the end, but you get to at least call your friends assholes and get bonuses for it, so that was nice. I can't think of any really evil choices in DAI because there are so few choices to begin with. Even the obvious bad endings like getting Cullen addicted to lyrium again are less 'mwahaha' and more 'good intentions gone amiss'. KOTOR1 was good about the evil path actually having evil missions to do, but even then evil playthroughs had the same Mass Effect renegade problem where you're basically a good guy with fairly benevolent goals who just happens to like kicking puppies sometimes, but the dark side ending was solid. I've never managed to complete an evil playthrough in KOTOR2 because even your more dubious party members react with "why are we murdering random people stop being stupid" so it really highlights how hollow the whole thing is.
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Dec 25, 2022 03:45
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Kill the Elves and get the werewolves on your side. I did this in my third run because I wanted something different. It was kinda neat, the Lady of the Forest shows up at Redcliffe and talks about hearing the Archdemon speaking. Give Connor to the Desire Demon so you can have sex with her/it. Or I giess you could learn Blood Magic.
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Dec 25, 2022 04:03
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