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Thinking about it, there's a passage where "the compulsion vanished like smoke", so it would be easy enough for her to have actually dropped it and done a bait and switch with her body. From memory either Perrin or Slayer does that too. Go well, Lanfear. Try find some dick to get over Lews Therin's.
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Jan 7, 2023 19:22
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If she got over Llews Therin then she wouldn't be Lanfear. Lanfear is the ultimate pinnacle of a divorced person who simply cannot and will not get over it, and I admire her commitment to the bit.
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Jan 8, 2023 16:56
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Seems like it's be pretty easy for her to grab depowered and burned out Rand now that he's no longer ta'veren. Unless he's got the Creator looking out for him at least.
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Jan 8, 2023 17:04
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Nitrousoxide posted:Seems like it's be pretty easy for her to grab depowered and burned out Rand now that he's no longer ta'veren. Unless he's got the Creator looking out for him at least. In the AMOL 10th anniversary livestream, Sanderson said that Rand is soo in touch with the pattern that he can make poo poo happen just by willing it and that's how he lit the pipe. That's not canon, just his thoughts on that whole thing so basically Lanfear or anybody would have gently caress all power over Rand, he could snuff her just by willing it 
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Jan 8, 2023 17:19
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Kinda been giggling to myself a bit about someone going "hey, this character might be acting slightly out of character" in the Sanderson books and it actually turning out to be intentional. BRB making a bunch of Mat theories.
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Jan 8, 2023 19:13
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2nd Livestream is coming up at 2pm EST with Harriett and Maria this time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOoXNMqNBxg
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Jan 8, 2023 19:31
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Hexel posted:In the AMOL 10th anniversary livestream, Sanderson said that Rand is soo in touch with the pattern that he can make poo poo happen just by willing it and that's how he lit the pipe. It's pretty strongly implied that Rand was able to affect the pattern directly back in TGS, before he became Zen Rand, when he threatens to kill Cadsuane by having the pattern stop her heart. So it stands to reason that Zen Rand might have kept that power.
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Jan 8, 2023 19:35
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Do we ever see Moridin channeling anything except True Power? When they cross the streams I recall Rand saying he couldn't see his weaves.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:19
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No, and it's mentioned as Ishamael he relied almost solely on it, hence the burning face
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Jan 9, 2023 19:34
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Seems interesting in that maybe Moridins body can't channel. So maybe it's not that Rand is burned out and more that his new body doesn't have it. And he just does the creator version of True Power instead.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:39
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 You could be onto something there, I never thought of that. No wait, he has to be able to channel or they couldn't have grabbed him with Callandor.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:41
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Aran'gar can channel in a different body, but she channels Saidar. Perhaps the body can channel but the source touched is based on the soul of the person. Or perhaps the whole saidar/saidin split is just some biotruth poo poo that everyone learned is "true" and doesn't actually exist. Which, given that the bore was made because they were looking for a power that wasn't delineated would be some irony.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:44
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Ehhhh..... saidar and saidin are pretty consistently described as feeling completely different and needing entirely different methods of control, so I'd hesitate to say they're the same. But I guess I'm just fond of the duality motif throughout the story.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:50
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CainFortea posted:Aran'gar can channel in a different body, but she channels Saidar. She channels Saidin. It's the reason she's able to channel at Egwene without getting caught. Also, she channels a light in front of Moghidien and the latter can't see the weaves. I think that's what you meant already, but still. As far as the body having the ability and the soul choosing what's touched or how, that would require that the other forsaken were given not only bodies that could channel, but that those bodies also had AoL level potential, which would be kind of a strange thing to never mention.
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Jan 9, 2023 21:23
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Gambor posted:She channels Saidin. It's the reason she's able to channel at Egwene without getting caught. Also, she channels a light in front of Moghidien and the latter can't see the weaves. I think that's what you meant already, but still. As far as the body having the ability and the soul choosing what's touched or how, that would require that the other forsaken were given not only bodies that could channel, but that those bodies also had AoL level potential, which would be kind of a strange thing to never mention. Yea, that's what I meant. I got them swapped. As far as how powerful they were, the thought is that the body is just the bridge, it's the soul that has the potential.
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Jan 9, 2023 21:26
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CainFortea posted:As far as how powerful they were, the thought is that the body is just the bridge, it's the soul that has the potential. I found a Reddit thread from a couple years ago where they talked about this idea. Beyond just the people saying no, it's not the body, the line from when Moridin picks up Callendor seems to contradict it (or at least that Moridin couldn't channel): “Moridin scooped Callandor off the floor. It burst alight with the One Power.” Though I currently don't have the actual book on hand to verify the quote nor to show that he couldn't have been using the TP at that moment with the narration being wrong due to character perspective.
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Jan 9, 2023 21:36
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Jordan specifically stated that the power you channel is tied to the soul, so the Dragon would always be male and couldn't be a female when asked about it during a Q&A. Hence why there's a specific female equivalent in Amerasu. I get the feeling it's done for narrative reasons to explain why males who want to channel don't just start using the female half of the source and so on though, rather than because of any inherent bio-truths stuff. The strength seems to be a different thing, since The Dark One can limit the power of those they reincarnate though. The Dragon is always strong however, at least presumably, so maybe that's just The Dark One placing some kind of limit on the soul? Some people whose ability to heal after burning out or being severed are limited too, so it's possible even for the same body.
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Jan 9, 2023 21:38
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tsob posted:The strength seems to be a different thing, since The Dark One can limit the power of those they reincarnate though. The Dragon is always strong however, at least presumably, so maybe that's just The Dark One placing some kind of limit on the soul? Some people whose ability to heal after burning out or being severed are limited too, so it's possible even for the same body. Can he? The only instances I recall of people losing power is being healed by their own source, and the Finn. Do they talk about Graendal losing power and I'm not remembering or something?
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Jan 9, 2023 21:46
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tsob posted:The strength seems to be a different thing, since The Dark One can limit the power of those they reincarnate though. The Dragon is always strong however, at least presumably, so maybe that's just The Dark One placing some kind of limit on the soul? Some people whose ability to heal after burning out or being severed are limited too, so it's possible even for the same body. The healing of being stilled giving you less power is specifically linked to whether or not you were healed by the opposite power, rather than something else though. It's why Logain got his full power (or so close he couldn't tell the difference) back, but Siuan didn't. Same with the Aes Sedai who were healed by one of the Ashaman, they got their full power back. I think of it like being wounded. Rand lost his hand in this incarnation as the Dragon, but the next one won't be born without a hand. The soul wasn't damaged, just the body it's attached to. If you're stilled in this life and then healed, your next one you'd come back able to channel at the same strength you could originally as the body's connection was damaged.
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Jan 9, 2023 21:48
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:....is this a joke? There's like.... nothing textual to support it. This is kind of the "dumbledore gay" of WoT plot threads. Sure. OK. tsob posted:I've heard good things about the Malazan books, though I've yet to read them. If you just finished 14 brick sized novels, why not go for another 10(with options on like 10 others)? Seriously though, Malazan is really really good but tonally completely different. Jordan and Sanderson like very internally consistent magic systems and world buildings and Erikson doesn't give a poo poo about that. He is intentionally vague and contradictory. But his prose is often very good and he has some really interesting ideas about societies and philosophy that he works out in there.
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Jan 12, 2023 07:18
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Malazan is an interesting series, though I'm not sure I'd call it good. It's really long and it takes a second or third reading to really start to make sense of things. But, if you like long fantasy series its a good recommendation.
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Jan 12, 2023 19:19
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VikingofRock posted:It's pretty strongly implied that Rand was able to affect the pattern directly back in TGS, before he became Zen Rand, when he threatens to kill Cadsuane by having the pattern stop her heart. So it stands to reason that Zen Rand might have kept that power. He was just wondering about it aloud, to scare Cadsuane and make his feelings towards her known, but he never displayed any sign of having that power.
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Jan 13, 2023 19:06
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I was reading up on Aginor/Osan'gar and I'm wondering, was he Dashiva all along within the story do people think? Or did he replace Dashiva at some point, either by the Dark One placing him in Dashiva's body since Dashiva was a darkfriend or simply using illusions or something? It'd be a simpler explanation if he was always Dashiva, but at the same time, some of Dashiva's actions seem a little weird if he was Aginor in reality. He was the one who pushed Damer Flinn to learn healing for instance, which doesn't seem like a particularly congruent thing for Aginor to do. Dashiva asking Flinn to heal Rand could be justified as Aginor wanting to keep Rand alive as per the Dark One's plans, but not his urging Flinn to learn to heal in the first place. Him being friends with Flinn at all seems odd, given how factional the Black Tower turned out to be. His urging Rand to think about how weird Saidin was acting before the battle with the Seanchan seems odd too, since that implies some concern for Rand or other troops there and Aginor/Osan'gar is normally quite selfish from what we're told of him. Plus, you know, Forsaken. Selfish kind of comes with the territory.Gambor posted:Can he? The only instances I recall of people losing power is being healed by their own source, and the Finn. Do they talk about Graendal losing power and I'm not remembering or something? It's implied at the very least, I think, yes. Ishamael may not be able to channel Saidin in his new body as Moridin since I don't think we ever see him use it, and Rand can't channel after he switches bodies to Moridin following the Last Battle. It's possible Moridin burned himself out, or just that the transfer destroyed the ability for some reason, but the implication is there that Moridin can't channel the One Power in his new body at the very least. Which, given Jordan's word on how the power to channel, what source you channel (be it Saidin or Saidar) etc. is bound to the soul would mean it basically had to be the Dark One restricting it. Which could be because he transferred a soul into an adult body that was unable to channel I suppose, but even then, if the power is tied to the soul, he should still be capable of channeling. Additionally, while Lanfear's strength was somewhat drained by the Eelfinn, she was resurrected as Cyndane after this, which implies that either their restriction follows even resurrection of the soul or that the Dark One kept her restricted to what she had been as part of her punishment. And it seems more likely to be the latter, since the Dark One operates outside the Pattern, while the Eelfinn are part of it in some fashion too, even if on a different world/dimension or whatever. seaborgium posted:The healing of being stilled giving you less power is specifically linked to whether or not you were healed by the opposite power, rather than something else though. It's why Logain got his full power (or so close he couldn't tell the difference) back, but Siuan didn't. Same with the Aes Sedai who were healed by one of the Ashaman, they got their full power back. Sure, I recognize that, but the end result is the same i.e. that strength in the power can be restricted in some fashion even within the same body. If people can do it just by improper healing, then presumably the Dark One can do it too. Jaxyon posted:If you just finished 14 brick sized novels, why not go for another 10(with options on like 10 others)? Well, the poster I was replying to, Racing Stripe, did seem to want some huge new fantasy series to dive into because it was a part of the experience he'd enjoyed so much about reading the Wheel of Time books. th3t00t posted:Uh, what? He never had that power. It was Rand trying to weaponize, or at least planting the suggestion he could weaponize, his being ta'veren as a means to threaten Cadsuane, because the Pattern spins itself around ta'veren and there had been several people mentioning throughout the story that Hawkwing was so strongly ta'veren that you could basically feel it when you were in the room with him, feel yourself wanting to help him etc. Rand was talking about making the Pattern turn around him in specific ways that would ultimately help him, at least as far as he was concerned, as a way to scare Cadsuane. I think he might have done the same thing with Tuon in his first meeting with her, because she gives an internal monologue about how she can feel the desire to acquiesce to him and has a hard time resisting it, and I don't think anyone else ever talks about meeting him in those terms. Which was at the height of Rand's anger and madness. Mind you, I still wouldn't call that the same thing, since it's an indirect control while the epilogue is him just wishing for something and it happening, essentially. Which is pretty different in my opinion. tsob fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Jan 14, 2023 |
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Jan 14, 2023 02:22
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tsob posted:I was reading up on Aginor/Osan'gar and I'm wondering, was he Dashiva all along within the story do people think? Or did he replace Dashiva at some point, either by the Dark One placing him in Dashiva's body since Dashiva was a darkfriend or simply using illusions or something? It'd be a simpler explanation if he was always Dashiva, but at the same time, some of Dashiva's actions seem a little weird if he was Aginor in reality. He was the one who pushed Damer Flinn to learn healing for instance, which doesn't seem like a particularly congruent thing for Aginor to do. Dashiva asking Flinn to heal Rand could be justified as Aginor wanting to keep Rand alive as per the Dark One's plans, but not his urging Flinn to learn to heal in the first place. Him being friends with Flinn at all seems odd, given how factional the Black Tower turned out to be. His urging Rand to think about how weird Saidin was acting before the battle with the Seanchan seems odd too, since that implies some concern for Rand or other troops there and Aginor/Osan'gar is normally quite selfish from what we're told of him. Plus, you know, Forsaken. Selfish kind of comes with the territory. Dashiva teaching Flinn the "new" method of healing is a little odd for a Forsaken, but Aginor was principally a scholar so he may have simply done it out of intellectual vanity. Him being a forsaken explains why he was able to do it at all.
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Jan 14, 2023 05:32
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:I'm pretty sure he was always Osangar. The first time Dashiva shows up is when Rand picks him randomly out of a crowd without looking to be his honor guard, to Taim's surprise and consternation. The only reason for Taim to be surprised or worried about Rand's choice is if Taim knows Dashiva is someone special, and is worried that Rand caught on so quickly.. My read on Taim's reaction is almost the opposite, in that I thought it was that Taim was trying to push Rand to select someone he preferred and away from people he had no control over. Also, did Dashiva teach Damer anything? I thought he just encouraged him to learn and wasn't his teacher specifically?
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Jan 14, 2023 05:40
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th3t00t posted:Uh, what? He never had that power. It was a bit funny in retrospect when a later Cadsuane PoV chapter was like "It's not hard to stop someone's heart with the Power, and it's no worse than a fireball but people get all weird about it."
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Jan 14, 2023 06:01
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I just finished book 14 and have some hot takes - The infamous slog wasn't a slog for me but the Sanderson books were. I definitely won't be touching his cosmere stuff. - Why are there five(?) different types of fast travel? The Ways came with risk and could be used by the bad guys; a perfectly fine plot element that was promptly ignored after a few books. - Related to the above, why spend so many books creating a detailed world only to reduce most of it to flyover states by introducing teleportation? - The forsaken were the most interesting characters but we spend little time with them. - The original five characters from Emonds Field plus Elayne are the most boring characters in the series but we spend most of our time with them. 18-20 year olds haven't lived enough life to be interesting characters. - We kept getting teased cool monsters in the blight but never get to see them. Overall the series was enjoyable but too long and there isn't 14 books worth of books in the series. I wouldn't recommend anybody read it unless they're a teenager with lots of free time and never read a better fantasy series. I've been doing a bit of a fantasy deep dive over the past few years and here are my results so far: Harry Potter - JK Rowling: DNFed half way through book four. Never read it as a child but gave it a go as an adult due to its cultural pervasiveness and apparently liberal millennials model their politics on this poo poo. Anybody who tells you that these books are timeless classics that even adults can enjoy is lying. They're boring and the prose and dialogue is terrible. I.e they're kids books meant for kids. Riftwar Trilogy and Demonwar Trilogy - Raymond E Feist: These are the books I read as a kid instead of Harry Potter due to being born too early and they hold up better than I expected on re-reading. Surprisingly few gay love scenes for a series where almost all the major characters are men and an early plot point revolves around glory holes. Malazan Book of the Fallen - Steven Erikson: The best super long fantasy series I've read so far. Decent prose and lots of interesting characters over the ten books. Has themes and things to say about stuff like real books. The next series will be the Wars of Light and Shadow by Janny Wurts as the eleventh and last book in the series is due out this year probably.
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Jan 14, 2023 09:09
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:- Why are there five(?) different types of fast travel? The Ways came with risk and could be used by the bad guys; a perfectly fine plot element that was promptly ignored after a few books. The Ways are a thing for most of the series. Not just using them but dealing with them as a threat vector. As to the second point, it was probably a mistake. quote:- The original five characters from Emonds Field plus Elayne are the most boring characters in the series but we spend most of our time with them. 18-20 year olds haven't lived enough life to be interesting characters. Bold claim when Faile and Galad are in those books.
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Jan 14, 2023 09:52
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If you can’t recommend one of the most successful and well loved series to people maybe fantasy isn’t your genre. Don’t get me wrong it’s flawed as all hell but fantasy as a genre is full of complete garbage and it’s mostly what I’ve read for 30 years.
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Jan 14, 2023 13:59
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Eh I'm not sure if I'd recommend people start it either and I love the books. Mostly because if someone really wants to read giant shelves of fantasy series they probably already know whether or not they want to read WoT. I'm probably going to get my kid to start eotw when he gets to middle school though, since he's gotten through some Tolkien and Narnia at age 8. Not going to be heartbroken if he doesn't get into it, there's endless stuff to read!
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Jan 14, 2023 14:23
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Dashiva teaching Flinn the "new" method of healing is a little odd for a Forsaken, but Aginor was principally a scholar so he may have simply done it out of intellectual vanity. Him being a forsaken explains why he was able to do it at all.
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Jan 14, 2023 16:54
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His warning to Rand could easily be pure self-preservation. He doesn't know what they hell is going on, and doesn't want to be fragged by it. As for Flinn, Healing has been shown to be a gateway to some really evil things. He may have been hoping that Flinn's eventual madness would go in that direction.
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Jan 14, 2023 17:12
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bio347 posted:I've always kinda speculated that part of it was that Aginor was really lovely at living like a peasant and wanted people around who could use Actual Healing in case he ever needed it. But it's definitely also an intellectual vanity thing. On a similar line is when he goes to Rand about saidin being "weird" around Ebou Dar in... that's Path of Daggers, right? Dude just cannot help himself. Yeah, I think Aginor just hated watching people be ignorant and couldn't help himself. Him wanting to make sure someone had real Healing also makes sense.
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Jan 14, 2023 17:19
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I'm not really a fan of the weirdness after the bowl of the winds. Nothing else has that mechanic.
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Jan 14, 2023 17:49
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:I'm not really a fan of the weirdness after the bowl of the winds. Nothing else has that mechanic. Been a while since I've read it, but wasn't it lightning Rand was blowing everyone up with? Massive amounts of the one power dicking around with weather in general might explain that. The one power feeling weird might have just been a ton of both sides effecting everything around at least all of randland making things feel all wacky
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Jan 14, 2023 22:34
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:I'm not really a fan of the weirdness after the bowl of the winds. Nothing else has that mechanic. I suspect Jordan put it in there to explain 1) why the bowl doesn't just get constantly re-used and 2) as a consequence since it was an item, drawing Saidin, all on its own without male channellers involved
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Jan 14, 2023 22:36
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Bowl of the Winds is what I call my toilet on Wednesday morning after Taco Tuesday.
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Jan 14, 2023 22:47
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tsob posted:I was reading up on Aginor/Osan'gar and I'm wondering, was he Dashiva all along within the story do people think? Or did he replace Dashiva at some point, either by the Dark One placing him in Dashiva's body since Dashiva was a darkfriend or simply using illusions or something? It'd be a simpler explanation if he was always Dashiva, but at the same time, some of Dashiva's actions seem a little weird if he was Aginor in reality. He was the one who pushed Damer Flinn to learn healing for instance, which doesn't seem like a particularly congruent thing for Aginor to do. Dashiva asking Flinn to heal Rand could be justified as Aginor wanting to keep Rand alive as per the Dark One's plans, but not his urging Flinn to learn to heal in the first place. Him being friends with Flinn at all seems odd, given how factional the Black Tower turned out to be. His urging Rand to think about how weird Saidin was acting before the battle with the Seanchan seems odd too, since that implies some concern for Rand or other troops there and Aginor/Osan'gar is normally quite selfish from what we're told of him. Plus, you know, Forsaken. Selfish kind of comes with the territory. Osan'gar also just straight explains why he's talking about saidin to Rand, "Feel, man! I don’t like ‘strange’ applied to saidin, and I don’t want to die or . . . or be burned out because you’re blind! Look at my ward! Look at it!" Simple self preservation.
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Jan 14, 2023 23:10
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Nah that pushing regarding healing was in the black tower. Preservation of Rand would not have been in the impact calculus since he could not know hed be near rand. Forsaken are all flawed, but accounts are he just wanted to be a mad scientist/geneticist.
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Jan 14, 2023 23:15
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RandomReader posted:Osan'gar also just straight explains why he's talking about saidin to Rand, "Feel, man! I don’t like ‘strange’ applied to saidin, and I don’t want to die or . . . or be burned out because you’re blind! Look at my ward! Look at it!" Simple self preservation.
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Jan 15, 2023 00:32
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