|
ColdPie posted:No one should give a poo poo or report on whatever this week's right wing troll culture war poo poo is. Attention is what they want. Ignore them. They'll move on to something else tomorrow. Yeah this is pretty niche, even for Fox News talking points.
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 19:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 01:22 |
|
|
mutata posted:If we're being fair, Team Fortress 2 was released 15 years ago. I'm baffled that, in this age of class-based shooters, we haven't seen a TF3 or TF2Classic or something. TF2 was the last the last shooter I actually spent any sort of dedicated time with - though I fell off once they started adding weapons (which my curmudgeon rear end still doesn't like). I also think it was better in beta when it had friendly fire on by default.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 19:38
|
|
|
Yeah, while there's something to be said about the state TF2 has been left in, especially with the bot and toxicity issues, but the game did receive nearly 8 years of contant major updates and another 2 of sporadic ones before falling mostly into maintenence mode following Jungle Inferno mid-2017. To say it didn't get a very long tail of heavy dev support would be an outright lie. ... that said, your opinion ON said support is free to vary. I'm certainly not sold that TF2 as a game ended significantly better than it started, just there being 'more' of it to keep it fresh-ish for a while.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 19:40
|
|
|
If we're talking about Epic, can someone find the discourses they made during their trial, something like their goal was basically to burn billions in cash to achieve a 30% market share, then completely stop with the free games giveaway. The documents also had them insanely far behind their projected timeline, like they expected to be in the position right now and aren't even past single digit numbers. EGS is a cash fire being completely funded by Fortnite, if that money dries up the store goes under.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 19:45
|
|
|
It sounds like the same kinda business strategy that companies like Uber have been doing. Operate at insane losses on the assumption they'll just completely monopolize the market at which point they can jack up pricing as much as they want. Except that never actually happened so now they're stuck just continuing to lose money forever.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 20:02
|
|
|
mutata posted:Eh? Can you explain this? https://youtu.be/BQLEW1c-69c
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 21:07
|
|
|
Could you point to the bit in that almost two hour documentary that says Half-Life 1 was "something that was worked on primairly by another studio", please? Do you mean the expansions that Gearbox made? Because they didn't have anything to do with the original version of Half-Life 1, as far as I know.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 21:29
|
|
|
Yeah I’ve watched this before and I still don’t know what you are on about.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 21:47
|
|
|
Maybe he's referring to counter strike or the other mod games acquired by valve?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 22:18
|
|
|
Or some bullshit "Well, actually, the engine was made by iD, therefore..." reasoning
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 22:18
|
|
|
lmao
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 22:40
|
|
|
E: nvm
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 22:40
|
|
|
Kanos posted:Valve's strength as a developer - when they were actually developing and releasing games - was buying out other peoples' ideas and concepts and then polishing them and refining them to a mirror shine and cranking the production values to the skies. They did it with Half-Life, they did it with Portal, they did it with TFC/TF2, they did it with Left 4 Dead, and they did it with DotA 2. I'm not shy of criticizing Valve but I find this post kind of...innacurate? I don't think this is true about L4D but feel free to provide any evidence.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 23:01
|
|
|
BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I'm not shy of criticizing Valve but I find this post kind of...innacurate? Didn't Valve just straight up buy Turtle Rock because they liked the look of L4D and wanted to finish it with them? That's what their Wikipedia says anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 23:38
|
|
|
stev posted:Didn't Valve just straight up buy Turtle Rock because they liked the look of L4D and wanted to finish it with them? L4D was largely a functional game within Valve and TR were contracted to make it look pretty. Turtle Rock spending decades riding the PR hype on L4D is wild.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 23:45
|
|
|
BeanpolePeckerwood posted:L4D was largely a functional game within Valve and TR were contracted to make it look pretty. Turtle Rock spending decades riding the PR hype on L4D is wild. According to....? Edit: Is there maybe another 2 hour long youtube essay I needed to watch before we discussed this?
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 00:14
|
|
|
I miss when people wrote things and all this stuff wasn't buried in multi-hour long Youtube videos.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 00:16
|
|
|
where would you even write things if you wanted to? your personal blog site? it'll get buried below 100 SEO'd up lovely ad sites and nobody will ever find it even when they search for that topic the internet is dead, there are only 10 websites left
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 00:21
|
|
|
RPATDO_LAMD posted:where would you even write things if you wanted to? Then people will actually find what you wrote when they search for "[subject] +reddit" in google
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 00:49
|
|
|
BeanpolePeckerwood posted:L4D was largely a functional game within Valve and TR were contracted to make it look pretty. Turtle Rock spending decades riding the PR hype on L4D is wild. L4D came from a Counter-Strike zombie mod that Turtle Rock was working on called Terror-Strike. They eventually removed all the Counter-Strike references, made the zombies faster, then presented it to Valve who agreed to fund and publish it. Sources: https://web.archive.org/web/20160305142040/http://www.1up.com/features/left-4-dead-afterthoughts https://www.polygon.com/2014/2/3/5373148/turtle-rock-studio-heads-discuss-conception-of-left-4-dead-and-evolve
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 00:53
|
|
|
Dieting Hippo posted:L4D came from a Counter-Strike zombie mod that Turtle Rock was working on called Terror-Strike. They eventually removed all the Counter-Strike references, made the zombies faster, then presented it to Valve who agreed to fund and publish it. If we go by the credits of all the talent involved, "fund and publish" is putting it lightly. I mean we know it came from a mod of a mod on Source and a proposal from folks that had contracted with Valve on other mod projects. But that idea once contracted, sold, funded, and expanded into a full release, leveraged a huge wave of talent within Valve proper. The reason it doesn't translate all that well over to what Turtle Rock released later (post-split) with eVolve and B4B is that it's mostly not the same people. One can say L4D is "just a mod" but it was not only a fantastic engine that L4D ran on compared to the games it later inspired, it was the superior sound design, music, mocap, AI pathing, art direction, UI, level design, etc, and frank dev commentary on L4D itself refutes the "just a mod" angle soundly. The games as we know them were made possible by many people who don't ask for a lot of credit these days, not just a few vocal folks from a former Valve satellite contractor who repeatedly play at being dev rockstars. Saying this, it doesn't mean that Valve as a corporate entity are somehow innocent of throwing their weight around in a financial and legal sense (because we know they do), or that the exploitation of corporation vs modding community relationship is above scrutiny, ...but the majority of humans involved in actually putting the labor in for those games, it's Valve.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 03:05
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:I'm baffled that, in this age of class-based shooters, we haven't seen a TF3 or TF2Classic or something. TF2 was the last the last shooter I actually spent any sort of dedicated time with - though I fell off once they started adding weapons (which my curmudgeon rear end still doesn't like). I also think it was better in beta when it had friendly fire on by default. There is an unofficial TF2Classic mod which strips out some of the later bloat and restores TFC content that didn't make it to TF2 officially. The developers had their own run-in with Valves dysfunctional culture, they were asked to take down the mod due to their use of leaked source code (fair enough) but Valve offered them an escape hatch to become officially licensed and release it on Steam with their blessing. They complied and disabled their downloads, then Valve completely ghosted them for six months until they gave up and enabled downloads again. Maybe someone at Valve genuinely wanted to help them go legit, but it wasn't to be once it collided with their internal politics 
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 03:57
|
|
|
Hey, not directed at anyone in particular but the thread's getting very chatty. Let's rerail a bit. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 04:18
|
|
|
lol at people saying poo poo like valve took half life from a preexisting dev team. Valve were the goofy clown underdogs that sierra gave money to because unlike most kids in college who wanted to make videogames they were middle aged ex microsoft engineers. Also speaking of industry news: https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1620206025931624449
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 04:48
|
|
|
The big three console makers not bothering with E3 makes sense. They realized they don't need to go through all the rigamarole to show a bunch of trailers to journalists who will then share them with or describe them to customers. They can just show the trailers straight to us and cut out the middle man, and save all the hassle of getting things set up.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 05:12
|
|
|
More likely they just realised they can put on their own events or piggyback off whatever Keighley's doing without having to pay the ESA and it'd be cheaper. E3 at this point is mostly an influencer event anyway and they don't care if you're part of E3 officially or not so long as they get some free food.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 06:14
|
|
|
BeanpolePeckerwood posted:If we go by the credits of all the talent involved, "fund and publish" is putting it lightly. I mean we know it came from a mod of a mod on Source and a proposal from folks that had contracted with Valve on other mod projects. But that idea once contracted, sold, funded, and expanded into a full release, leveraged a huge wave of talent within Valve proper. The reason it doesn't translate all that well over to what Turtle Rock released later (post-split) with eVolve and B4B is that it's mostly not the same people. One can say L4D is "just a mod" but it was not only a fantastic engine that L4D ran on compared to the games it later inspired, it was the superior sound design, music, mocap, AI pathing, art direction, UI, level design, etc, and frank dev commentary on L4D itself refutes the "just a mod" angle soundly. The games as we know them were made possible by many people who don't ask for a lot of credit these days, not just a few vocal folks from a former Valve satellite contractor who repeatedly play at being dev rockstars. Saying this, it doesn't mean that Valve as a corporate entity are somehow innocent of throwing their weight around in a financial and legal sense (because we know they do), or that the exploitation of corporation vs modding community relationship is above scrutiny, ...but the majority of humans involved in actually putting the labor in for those games, it's Valve. I don't even know what point you're trying to make anymore, and you refuse to post sources, so cool story, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 06:47
|
|
|
Tankbuster posted:lol at people saying poo poo like valve took half life from a preexisting dev team. Valve were the goofy clown underdogs that sierra gave money to because unlike most kids in college who wanted to make videogames they were middle aged ex microsoft engineers. then what's the loving point of E3 then lmao
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 07:01
|
|
|
Kith posted:then what's the loving point of E3 then lmao Sucking money out of people in their mid-30s and 40s whose childhood dream was to go to E3.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 07:08
|
|
|
Kith posted:then what's the loving point of E3 then lmao Originally, pitching to retail store buyers (as in the people who make the decisions about what appears on brick and mortar shelves). I don't know what it's for now at all.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 07:15
|
|
|
Kith posted:then what's the loving point of E3 then lmao Except to pick up money for the ESA, it's just meant for whatever shed of retail is left in the physical market. And, for the sake of "journalism" to connect with publishers and developers for advance copies and review copies when it happens. But, considering digital is the norm for review copies, and "review copies" are barely given away unless there are parameters in place, in favor of content creators who will give any game a great review for a bag of money. Xbox, Sony and Nintendo all have YouTube special events quarterly, and Keighley has Summer Games Fest that's typically for PC games, indies, and third parties in multiple outlets. The only reason to still have it, it's because "traditional gaming values" like yelling about "who won E3" and the non-existent console wars.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 07:57
|
|
|
I think it is nice to have one specific time of year where Big Videogame News happens, and for all Keighley tries his shows just aren't ever going to be where the big companies make big announcements. He's for the bigger indies and DLC announcements and every year he'll get one big announcement to make during the Keighleys.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 08:28
|
|
|
Mostly there's not much incentive for big publishers since the only time they ever really get to make waves at E3 is when at least one of them manages to gently caress up hilariously. Otherwise, yeah, it's for a vestigial legacy physical retail sector and an already mostly laughable journalism sector they no longer need.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 08:50
|
|
|
njsykora posted:I think it is nice to have one specific time of year where Big Videogame News happens... And that's the exact reason why the big studios don't like it. Why compete for the headlines? It's not like when ever they chose to do their own thing it won't get covered.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 09:09
|
|
|
E3 is dead, but even in absentia it's still the most wonderful time of the year, the holiest month for the gaming religion.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 09:12
|
|
|
Haha. Embracer just sold the Tomb Raider IP to Amazon for 600 million after buying it as part of a bundle with several studios and other IP from SE for only 300 million. E: To be clear, I think that’s a crazy purchase on Amazon’s side, but SE clearly massively underrated what people would have been willing to pay. CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Jan 31, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 13:25
|
|
|
squeenix just wanted rid of that stuff tbh, i think they sold them to the first available buyer.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 13:28
|
|
|
Amazon are publishing that new game Crystal Dynamics are making and apparently making a TV series too (we swear this time it’ll work) so they clearly think they can build a “””cinematic universe””” off it. They can’t, Tomb Raider is well past it’s time despite how good those last 3 games were but it’s their money.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 13:32
|
|
|
Eh, you can probably do a decent woman led globetrotting-y adventure TV show if you get some decent writers and try to avoid some of the hilarious pitfalls those kinds of things tended to fall into back in the day (and still do often).
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 13:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 01:22 |
|
|
Endorph posted:squeenix just wanted rid of that stuff tbh, i think they sold them to the first available buyer. Yeah, CD was apparently a really costly studio which played into their games not being as profitable as they could've been, so cutting losses like the Avengers game probably factored into the deal value for them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 13:37
|
|
