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Salt is broadly only pitched with the yeast or sometimes after when forming for bulk. Don't put it in preferments, it retards, unless you need to retard it due to schedule.
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Feb 15, 2023 13:33
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:That is a beautiful loaf and a classy presentation. Thanks, I can't remember who i saw do it first but it seemed like a good way to document the inside and outside at the same time. Now my camera roll is full of hundreds of pics like this, because I am an exciting adult.
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Feb 15, 2023 15:06
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Anyone got a recipe for pain de campagne that used preferment instead of sourdough? I have the Bread Illustrated one and I'm sick of trying to make it work. King Arthur Flour has a sourdough version that looks good, but I don't have a starter. Alternatively, any rustic country bread that can be started the night before and finished the next day will work.
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Feb 16, 2023 21:20
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null_pointer posted:Anyone got a recipe for pain de campagne that used preferment instead of sourdough? I have the Bread Illustrated one and I'm sick of trying to make it work. King Arthur Flour has a sourdough version that looks good, but I don't have a starter. Flour Water Salt Yeast by Ken Forkish has an awesome pain de campagne recipe that I can vouch for. Nearly the whole book is full of rustic breads meant to start the night before and finish the next day. Edit: here's a blog post with the recipe outline https://www.karenskitchenstories.com/2014/01/pain-de-campagne.html
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Feb 16, 2023 21:30
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I just made the FWSY overnight poolish recipe for the first time in a long while and I didn't get as much poolish expansion or bubbling as expected in the 12-16 hour range. My poolish doubled in mass while the book says it should triple in mass, and while it was bubbling, the bubbles weren't popping every few seconds at any point during the expected peak time of the poolish. What are the potential issues to consider here? Potentially too cold over night? Yeast not active enough? Also, while I got decent oven spring, the crumb wasn't quite as airy as it's been in the past (but not a terrible crumb either). Is this likely related to the previous point of under developed poolish (and thus gluten?), was it maybe just a bit underproofed?
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Feb 18, 2023 00:50
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I just did a cold fermented loaf like I was pondering. It definitely scored easier but I did not get much more spring. It did tend to go out, not up. The dough is at around 80% hydration. What I am think is I need to score it less. I am pretty much going end-to-end. According to Breadtopia, I should try a few small cuts instead. Any confirm/deny?
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Feb 18, 2023 06:15
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I just did a cold fermented loaf like I was pondering. It definitely scored easier but I did not get much more spring. It did tend to go out, not up. The dough is at around 80% hydration. What I am think is I need to score it less. I am pretty much going end-to-end. According to Breadtopia, I should try a few small cuts instead. Any confirm/deny? The loaf will expand outward from your cuts, assuming you have a good gluten structure. I think you should give it a shot. My sandwich loaves rise a bit higher with 3-4 slashes perpendicular to the long axis vs 1 long parallel slash. (Though that does give it a lovely split top to put melted butter in.)
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Feb 18, 2023 22:25
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Splinter posted:I just made the FWSY overnight poolish recipe for the first time in a long while and I didn't get as much poolish expansion or bubbling as expected in the 12-16 hour range. Same thing happened to me, with the same recipe, and I chalked it up to my kitchen just not being warm enough, overnight. Next time I do this recipe, when I wake up in the morning, I'll throw it into the oven and turn the light on. That's what I did last time, and that was enough to push it over the edge and get the volume and activity I needed. Edit: Just don't leave it in the oven, the whole time, overnight. If you do that, your poolish will be way past its peak point, resulting in a dense waxy bread.
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Feb 19, 2023 17:36
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 Yeah sorry but this is a really good idea!  Alright I think we’re getting there. I took a test blob to gauge the rise during proofing and I can tell (now, of course) that it probably should have risen like another centimeter. Other than that I used some new oval bannetons and pre-shaped into batards. Still trash at scoring.
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Feb 20, 2023 00:54
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I'm struggling with scoring lately. I don't know what causes the difference between this: And this:  I feel as though they were the same recipe and procedure, and as far as I can recall there was virtually no difference in scoring either.
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Feb 20, 2023 11:09
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All else being equal the one below is a little under fermented Crust color backs this up, slightly darker on top.
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Feb 20, 2023 13:58
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This is my third attempt at the Tartine Country loaf. Each attempt is better than the last, but I still can't seem to get the crumb as open as it should be.  The first two times, I followed the recipe exactly, but I couldn't quite get the fermentation activity I needed. It was a struggle to get 20% rise in bulk fermentation even at the ideal temps. The only part of the recipe that is not an exact weight is the starter. The recipe says to use a tablespoon. This last attempt, I increased the amount of starter from 12 grams to almost 30 grams which is a very large heaping tablespoon. I noticed much more activity and the dough had the look and feel of the multiple videos I've been following. In fact, the dough doubled in 3.5 hours during Bulk Fermentation which is a bit faster than usual for the recipe. The crumb is still fairly dense however, and I don't know why. The overall process is as follows. Levain fermented overnight @70 degrees F. Was double in size the next morning and still looked and smelled young. Autolyse 40 minutes. BF was 3.5-4 hours with 4 stretch and folds 30 minutes apart. Dough was at a consistent 80 F the whole time. 30 minute bench rest in between pre and final shaping . 14 hours cold retard in the fridge overnight. Does this look over or under proofed? Having tried the bread from the Tartine bakery, the flavor is 100% right, but the crumb needs some work.
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Feb 23, 2023 20:07
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null_pointer posted:Same thing happened to me, with the same recipe, and I chalked it up to my kitchen just not being warm enough, overnight. Next time I do this recipe, when I wake up in the morning, I'll throw it into the oven and turn the light on. That's what I did last time, and that was enough to push it over the edge and get the volume and activity I needed. My stupid oven, despite in general being quite new and high quality, doesn't have a button or switch to turn the oven light on when the door is closed (only comes on when the door opens). I like this idea though and might be able to figure something similar out using the oven or another confined space.
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Feb 24, 2023 01:47
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That looks perfect and I would be overjoyed with it. But I’m sorry I don’t know how to fine tune a crumb like that. 
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Feb 24, 2023 03:53
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I'm not very experienced but I've found for a lot of my loaves they had a more open crumb when I was really gentle with the stretch and folds and shaping steps. Just generally trying to handle it as little as possible and not degas it much at all. But I've come to a point where a crumb like in that photo is exactly what I want, plus that's about where my loaves end up when I use my normal shaping methods. I think it looks great!
Toast King fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Feb 24, 2023 |
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Feb 24, 2023 04:31
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Ishamael posted:Yes I do a 16 hr cold ferment in the bannetons, wrapped in a plastic bag. Great development of flavor, and helps the loaf hold a good shape during the initial spring. Same here, about 12 hour cold ferment in bannetons (actually plastic ones with a cloth "hammock" in them) I feel the 12 hours is too little, but 36 is too much. I need to try somewhere in the middle. Can't remember where I read it, but the dough takes forever to come down to fridge temps from room temps. Here's a batch from this morning:  Sir Sidney Poitier posted:I'm struggling with scoring lately. I don't know what causes the difference between this: I usually bake four loaves every Friday morning, in batches of two, and I had a period where I would slam dunk four perfect ears every week. Then, seemingly out of nowhere, I had issues like you. I think it comes down to scoring, how proofed the dough is and sometimes just luck. I think also the righthand loaf in my oven tends to not form an ear more often. Just do what I do and bake several, there's usually one pretty one that can be seen by the public/posted on the 'gram. bolind fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Feb 24, 2023 |
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Feb 24, 2023 14:37
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bolind posted:Just do what I do and bake several, there's usually one pretty one that can be seen by the public/posted on the 'gram. My problem with that is I'm just doing it for me. I'm doing one loaf every 3-4 days, that's how long it takes me to get through it, and it's the size of my one dutch oven. It's also proven a slight problem that the amount is slightly too little to be mixed in my KitchenAid - it just sticks to the hook and doesn't really touch the sides. Any more and it wouldn't fit in the dutch oven. I did score a bit deeper this last time and it did improve the ear (didn't know it was called that). I'm going to end up talking myself into a bigger pan aren't I.
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Feb 24, 2023 16:57
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:My problem with that is I'm just doing it for me. I'm doing one loaf every 3-4 days, that's how long it takes me to get through it, and it's the size of my one dutch oven. It's also proven a slight problem that the amount is slightly too little to be mixed in my KitchenAid - it just sticks to the hook and doesn't really touch the sides. Any more and it wouldn't fit in the dutch oven. If you have one of the smaller non-lift bowl kitchenaids I’ve found there’s some new third party spiral dough hooks on Amazon that are made for them now. Works much better for me than the c-style stock hook, especially with small loaves. I would just recommend rubbing the new hook with oil or nonstick spray before use to prevent the dough from winding upwards.
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Feb 24, 2023 21:07
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That is my situation and I had actually seen those, didn't realise they'd be at all better. I may give one a try in that case.
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Feb 24, 2023 21:14
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Dacap posted:If you have one of the smaller non-lift bowl kitchenaids I’ve found there’s some new third party spiral dough hooks on Amazon that are made for them now. Those sound great. Got any links to them?
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Feb 24, 2023 21:33
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therattle posted:Those sound great. Got any links to them? https://a.co/d/dmTRfua This is the one I got, but there’s a bunch of others if you search for spiral dough hooks. Just make sure to check that your model is listed for it.
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Feb 25, 2023 00:40
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Dacap posted:https://a.co/d/dmTRfua Terrific, thanks.
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Feb 25, 2023 00:53
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:I'm struggling with scoring lately. I don't know what causes the difference between this: maybe this is obvious, but there are so many “of COURSE x is better” assumptions in the current bread trend, I would really stop and think about what you personally enjoy eating
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Feb 25, 2023 01:01
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i like nice words
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The top is technically better because of no tearing. I assume you are double batching? Are you ensuring an even weight when splitting? E- lmao I answered earlier as well but differently. You're really looking for perfection and I applaud it. Submarine Sandpaper fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Feb 25, 2023 |
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Feb 25, 2023 01:08
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:The top is technically better because of no tearing. I'm not, I do one loaf each time - these two are a few weeks apart. I didn't realise the lack of tearing was considered better, I just found the cragginess interesting in terms of texture variation. As I said earlier in the thread, I want to saw the craggy top off and just eat that. And maybe I will.
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Feb 25, 2023 06:45
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I thought the tearing was preferred now. I think the idea of the ear and all that is it shows visually that you did everything right. I don't know how much one could sabotage the process to get an ear and have a an especially lovely bread without replacing the flour with chalk or something. It shows you formed the gluten well and shaped a good loaf out of it. It had a strong enough skin that cutting into it encouraged growth to burst from the cut. That outer crust is part of the big deal with artisanal bread like that.
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Feb 25, 2023 07:01
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Dumb bread-adjacent question: is there a brick and mortar store that sells rye flour in bigger bags at a reasonable price? I see it available online, but the only way I ever see it sold locally is in the tiny 20 oz bags from Bob's Red Mill that cost as much as a 5 pounder of all-purpose. I'm not OPPOSED to buying it online, but sometimes shipping kills the deal. Rye used to be a peasant food; a loaf of rye shouldn't be an "expensive" (by homemade bread standards) luxury!
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Feb 25, 2023 11:48
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    My second attempt at a german rye bread. I'm starting to understand this scoring thing... Thinking maybe I needed to bake it a little longer though for colour? Either way it tasted lovely and it was very soft. Edit: who knew that ctrl+enter just sends the post!
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Feb 25, 2023 11:54
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JoshGuitar posted:Dumb bread-adjacent question: is there a brick and mortar store that sells rye flour in bigger bags at a reasonable price? I see it available online, but the only way I ever see it sold locally is in the tiny 20 oz bags from Bob's Red Mill that cost as much as a 5 pounder of all-purpose. I'm not OPPOSED to buying it online, but sometimes shipping kills the deal. Rye used to be a peasant food; a loaf of rye shouldn't be an "expensive" (by homemade bread standards) luxury! Couldn't find it on Costco or Sam's website, but US Foods Chef Store has Bob's Red Mills Dark Rye at 25lbs for $28.75. That way it's only twice as expensive as wheat flour! If you have one near you that might work.
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Feb 25, 2023 15:40
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JoshGuitar posted:Dumb bread-adjacent question: is there a brick and mortar store that sells rye flour in bigger bags at a reasonable price? I see it available online, but the only way I ever see it sold locally is in the tiny 20 oz bags from Bob's Red Mill that cost as much as a 5 pounder of all-purpose. I'm not OPPOSED to buying it online, but sometimes shipping kills the deal. Rye used to be a peasant food; a loaf of rye shouldn't be an "expensive" (by homemade bread standards) luxury! Don’t know where you live but here in Halifax I looked around for local mills. Turns out there’s a company in New Brunswick that supplies this region. I set up a credit agreement with them and just ordered big 10kg bags of all the esoteric flours I wanted. I even set up a little “bread club” at work years ago and we shared the shipments. It’s neat, a man in a van just drove by and unloaded the flour at my building on his way to dropping off like 200kg of bread flour to the pizza place down the road.
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Feb 25, 2023 16:06
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Books On Tape posted:This is my third attempt at the Tartine Country loaf. Each attempt is better than the last, but I still can't seem to get the crumb as open as it should be. I think this looks great! It’s a matter of preference, but the loaves I get from Tartine are too open to spread things on. The butter just falls through the holes!
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Feb 26, 2023 01:41
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Nettle Soup posted:
Yeah, I'd go hotter or bake longer to darken it up, but it looks good.
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Feb 26, 2023 02:36
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Power Walrus posted:I think this looks great! It’s a matter of preference, but the loaves I get from Tartine are too open to spread things on. The butter just falls through the holes! This is my dilemma. I love the texture of something with an open crumb, it feels more springy and satisfying. It's what I'd prefer for soup, but day to day I'm making sandwiches so it's just not practical.
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Feb 26, 2023 10:45
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effika posted:Couldn't find it on Costco or Sam's website, but US Foods Chef Store has Bob's Red Mills Dark Rye at 25lbs for $28.75. That way it's only twice as expensive as wheat flour! If you have one near you that might work. Thanks for the link, but unfortunately I don't have one near me, or even in my state .tuyop posted:Don’t know where you live but here in Halifax I looked around for local mills. Turns out there’s a company in New Brunswick that supplies this region. I set up a credit agreement with them and just ordered big 10kg bags of all the esoteric flours I wanted. I even set up a little “bread club” at work years ago and we shared the shipments. It’s neat, a man in a van just drove by and unloaded the flour at my building on his way to dropping off like 200kg of bread flour to the pizza place down the road. This got me searching, and there's a place that's more or less on my way home from work if I take the scenic route. It's right around a buck a pound, which is actually a little cheaper than bread flour at the same place. Looks like it's Reuben time, thanks!
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Feb 26, 2023 13:55
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I thought the tearing was preferred now. I think the idea of the ear and all that is it shows visually that you did everything right. I don't know how much one could sabotage the process to get an ear and have a an especially lovely bread without replacing the flour with chalk or something. For the bold, under proofing. That's why I called it out originally, plus a not as even color. You can force an ear by changing the angle of the score and using a lame for a curved blade helps with this. i.e, an early 2016 experiment when I was adjusting variables a lot 
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Feb 26, 2023 14:44
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Aramoro posted:Someone in this thread turned me on to them. Toutons, I make them almost any time I'm making bread now. Finally got around to trying my hand at these via this recipe. The dough was a little annoying to work with but the resulting toutons were really good and this recipe makes a ton of them, so now I have stuff to munch on for breakfast this whole week. Thanks for the recommendation!
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Feb 26, 2023 22:23
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Today's bread looks like bread. First time I tried adding a little apple cider vinegar to dough. First time baking in a preheated 450F iron dutch oven instead of a room temp bread pan going in. I don't think it rose quite properly. Maybe because my apartment is typically 57F, these days. 
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Feb 27, 2023 19:55
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So I love sourdough bread, I love bagels. Can I make sourdough bagels? The answer is no.   Theres a couple of things I need to work on here, shaping obviously leaves something to.be desired. After that I think these got over proofed so they're pretty flat and have a weird seam round the edge on some of them  They taste good and texture is not terrible so I will need to work on that shaping and proofing to get to right.
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Mar 1, 2023 10:27
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I made some sourdough pretzels a bit ago. They ended up as some nice lumps of bread, completely lost their shape. Either the dough was too wet, I didn't know how to work it, or the long proove time gave it a lot of time to lose its shape. But it was an enriched dough and they baked through, so I could get rid of the evidence no problem. I guess I should try making regular pretzels before jumping in w/ the weird stuff.
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Mar 1, 2023 10:54
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All i want is that blistered, crispy crust on every bread ever, drat.
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Mar 1, 2023 16:35
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