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Major Isoor posted:Hey, I have a couple of questions about shipbuilding, if anyone could spare a moment: I also have these questions. I have a ton of npc ship orders stacked up but i have no idea what they are or what I'm missing that's making them not get made. It would be real nice to have insight into your own shipyard that isn't "i dunno boss, they said to make unknown ship but we don't have a bill for it"
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May 29, 2023 06:40
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Personally I don't let anyone build at my shipyards, these are for my own use. The money isn't worth it. If anything its good to supply fleet missions with your own build ships for maximum profits.
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May 29, 2023 06:53
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The price of any component is actually just the amalgamated price of all its inputs (plus, iirc, a labour fee.). Thats why the prices of ordering ships at AI shipyards can go up and down, because the price of building its individual components has changed with the supply of resources.
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May 29, 2023 06:59
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:The price of any component is actually just the amalgamated price of all its inputs (plus, iirc, a labour fee.). Thats why the prices of ordering ships at AI shipyards can go up and down, because the price of building its individual components has changed with the supply of resources. Oh, I actually never noticed that! Is there anywhere that we can view a breakdown of the material/component price for modules, by any chance? Since I'd be very interested in knowing which ships and modules cost what, personally. I had a look yesterday, but I couldn't seem to find anything EDIT: FrickenMoron posted:Personally I don't let anyone build at my shipyards, these are for my own use. The money isn't worth it. If anything its good to supply fleet missions with your own build ships for maximum profits. Also, you're probably right there! I'm gonna keep selling ships atm personally, but I may shut off supplying ships to most or all races later on, once I'm rich. For blocks of time anyway, at minimum - such as if I'm trying to rush out a fleet of destroyers and don't want them to be held up by NPC orders
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May 29, 2023 07:01
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Major Isoor posted:Hey, I have a couple of questions about shipbuilding, if anyone could spare a moment: I think the AI will only order ships if you have all the blueprints they want. If you don't have a part they won't buy. I've read this includes consumables too. You can see the cost of the different MK levels in the encyclopedia in game, but yeah higher MK items cost more resources. I tend to use the higher MK parts in my own ships. Mostly just because I have the resources so why not? One thing to think about, they nerfed shipbuilding money making. You actually will make more money building ships and then manually selling them to the AI shipyards. For example I was getting ~7-8 million credits for a Rattlesnake being ordered in my shipyard. If I manually sell the ship I get 18-20million.
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May 29, 2023 07:03
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The only AI preferences I could pin down was if it was a ship they could build in their own shipyards then they'll order it ( so you want to build ships for Argon? you better have an Argon hull, engines, shield and weapons blueprints on hand - thrusters are at least universal ). In my vanilla game when I was selling to the other factions I focused solely on having the high tier engines and shields ( just for my benefit ), and as long as I had the construction materials on hand the AI would buy away. Remember, the AI has infinite cash, so they don't care about the price, if you have the resources on hand they'll order ships as they need to ( based on their jobs queue ). I don't believe that they have specific part requirements, so if you only have 1 kind of eligible turret or weapon they'll just order that. Mk1 equipment is cheaper because the bill of materials required is smaller than Mk2 and Mk3. You wanna know why Split Combat Engine Mk4s cost so much more than the Mk3? because they use way more parts than the Mk3 engine ( 87 AM converters, 126 ecells, 169 engine parts for the Mk3 Combat Engine M vs 335 AM converters, 636 ecells and 1039 engine parts for the Mk4 combat engine M ). You should be able to see the bill of materials for ship equipment in their entry of the encyclopaedia. ZombyDog fucked around with this message at 07:08 on May 29, 2023 |
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May 29, 2023 07:03
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Mine started as a natural vertically integrated evolution of a hull parts and claytronics factory starting point for the half dozen npc factions bordering heretic's end fighting the Xenon so I'm this case i definitely want anyone not getting my surplus shipments to pay me to make their ships directly This will also (if i can get it working as intended) be an incredibly profitable thing once i kick off a few plot wars
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May 29, 2023 07:04
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axelord posted:I think the AI will only order ships if you have all the blueprints they want. If you don't have a part they won't buy. I've read this includes consumables too. Oh wow, on all points - I always forget about the encyclopedia! And yeah, maybe I'd better just restrict the sale of ships and just resell manufactured ships... Interesting
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May 29, 2023 07:04
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The encyclopedia lists the inputs, yeah. And when you're buying a ship from an ai shipyard you can IIRC expand any of the components and it'll show you what they're built of. I always quit before getting my own shipyard so I can't speak as to that.
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May 29, 2023 07:07
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And yes, Shipbuilding for the AI was nerfed to you getting something like 30% of the cost to build just after CoH was released, so giving them access to your production is actually very bad for money. You'd be better off either feeding the resources directly to their shipyards, or building the ships yourself and then selling them to the faction. The faction will then just recycle the ships at their nearest wharf/shipyard and reuse the parts themselves but at least you get paid for 100% of what you put in. Of course, as always there is a mod to fix this. If you want to give the AI actually decent combat worthy vessels, the only way to do so is to supply them via the faction ship supply missions. ZombyDog fucked around with this message at 07:18 on May 29, 2023 |
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May 29, 2023 07:08
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The only fun thing to do with letting the AI build at your shipyard is befriending FAF and letting them build rattlesnakes. Or the Yaki.
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May 29, 2023 07:18
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FrickenMoron posted:The only fun thing to do with letting the AI build at your shipyard is befriending FAF and letting them build rattlesnakes. Or the Yaki. Unil your shipyard is a multi faction warzone with turrets, mines and wrecks outside the docks gumming up the works. But hey, if you're recycling as well you can make back some of those lost resources.
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May 29, 2023 07:20
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Is there a mod that lets you just drop minefields like the scale plate have in Silent Witness? Or maybe a command i don't know about? Also good tips, will be immediately disallowing ai shipbuilding and just continue selling end products from the shipyard. I jacked up the prices to 20% ish and figured that covered any incidentals but if it's net 30 off the top that's clearly insufficient to do so
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May 29, 2023 09:08
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I'm pretty sure there's an option to create a minefield, isn't there? If a ship has mines, I think the option is there in the same context menu as satellites and the like. (Just under 'military' instead of 'civilian') That being said, unless something has changed recently they don't process OoS IIRC, so they're generally not worth using. Even if they're the friend/foe tracker variety, sadly.
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May 29, 2023 09:21
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HiroProtagonist posted:Is there a mod that lets you just drop minefields like the scale plate have in Silent Witness? Or maybe a command i don't know about? ZombyDog fucked around with this message at 10:16 on May 29, 2023 |
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May 29, 2023 10:08
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ty those are all good tips i somehow managed not to learn in 450+ hours of playing  its been said before and will doubtless be said again many many times, but stuff like "how do i set minefields" should not be questions anyone asks with as much playtime as someone like me has but egosoft redefines the standard of "not tell(ing) you poo poo"also it was really hard to tell my shipyard was even operating at a loss at all because the transaction log summary gets obfuscated by all the transfers from the station account to mine and perpetually read as in the red as a result. i just did quick math off the top of my head and went "yeah seems right, few million there, few million here, looks good."
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May 29, 2023 17:20
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I have no clue why they implemented a ledger in such half-assed way. Businesses keep a record of receivables for a drat good reason. And they actually categorize them so it’s clear exactly where the deposits are coming from. Or maybe Egosoft’s accounting is also a clusterfuck? Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 17:44 on May 29, 2023 |
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May 29, 2023 17:41
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Is there a way to mass apply a load out to defense modules? I made an Argon disc and Argon bridge load out, but whenever I build a station I'm currently having to go in to each module individually and apply the load out which seems... Inefficient
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May 29, 2023 18:01
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Egosoft unfortunately has a habit of just never completing features because as always their ambition outstrips their reach. There is, theoretically, a way in the UI to tell a ship to lay down 10 lasertowers or 20 mines or somesuch, but it doesn't work; there's no ai coding for the ship to actually do that and so the # field is locked to 1. Similarly there's a pretty decent UI for looking at the status of a station account - but because of the way payments/accounts are organized, the inability to filter or sum things, and the lack of a few critical useful settings, you would basically have to construct your own spreadsheet anyway if you actually wanna get useful information beyond 'eyeballing the accounts bar'. WebDO posted:Is there a way to mass apply a load out to defense modules? I made an Argon disc and Argon bridge load out, but whenever I build a station I'm currently having to go in to each module individually and apply the load out which seems... Inefficient If you copy the module itself it also copies the loadout. Even if you are making unique stations, you could use a template 'starter' that has loaded-out defense modules you can copy.
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May 29, 2023 18:05
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WebDO posted:Is there a way to mass apply a load out to defense modules? I made an Argon disc and Argon bridge load out, but whenever I build a station I'm currently having to go in to each module individually and apply the load out which seems... Inefficient I just discovered you can save the platform loadout the same way you save a ship loadout. After you have it set up hit the save icon and it'll be for that specific module and not the whole station as long as you're in the screen where you assign the turrets. After that you can just copy that first module and it'll be prefilled for all the others at that station.
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May 29, 2023 18:14
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I ended up restarting my online save using a custom game with the boron stuff completed, because I couldn't fix the Vigor reputation - so this time my PHQ has enough storage for 2x high mass teleports. Also, I captured another Yasur mk1 and modded it differently - but finding extended fuel containers loving suck, so I can't give it the whirlygig mod that I want. 
BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 20:39 on May 29, 2023 |
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May 29, 2023 20:36
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I ended up restarting my online save using a custom game with the boron stuff completed, because I couldn't fix the Vigor reputation - so this time my PHQ has enough storage for 2x high mass teleports. Get a handful of S fighters ( fast tanky M frigates work better in areas that might be extra spicy ), set them to repeat orders and then tell them collect drops. You can have them collect drops in a number of locations but you don't want to go over the top because the drops will likely despawn before your collector gets to them. Periodically teleport to the captain and get them to hand over their inventory. You're supposed to be able to order ships to drop their inventory off at your stash in the PHQ but I couldn't work that out, and you're likely to run into the issue of your collectors missing out on juicy loot while they trek back and forth from your PHQ. ZombyDog fucked around with this message at 03:16 on May 30, 2023 |
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May 30, 2023 03:06
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ZombyDog posted:Periodically teleport to the captain and get them to hand over their inventory. This is a good idea - but to add to the quoted bit, once the pilot has something in their inventory, you can also issue the (repeated or otherwise) 'Deposit Inventory' order to them, which will get them to drop off their collected junk to your Player HQ. I tend to set a ship on a loop of collecting>depositing in a sector near to my PHQ, although obviously it's much less useful if they're far away from your PHQ (Since this way, at least they'll keep on top of the task. So if they die I won't lose as much compared to if I was trying to remember to keep on top of it regularly. I still need to pick the stuff up from the PHQ when I need it though, but that's pretty rare)
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May 30, 2023 03:15
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ZombyDog posted:Do you have a fleet of ships defending a sector at a gate? Do you have an advanced satellite parked at the gate to True Sight in Second Conflict ( or any ai other faction warzone like the Gate from Tharka's Cascade into Hatikva's choice )? Do you have a bajillion Kha'ak fighters dying to your L Miners in Asteroid Belt? Do you have a cluster of stations in Nopelio's Fortune that keeps on getting visited by rival Venture ships?  It's too far from my PHQ to use repeat order to collect items and deposit inventory though.  Major Isoor posted:This is a good idea - but to add to the quoted bit, once the pilot has something in their inventory, you can also issue the (repeated or otherwise) 'Deposit Inventory' order to them, which will get them to drop off their collected junk to your Player HQ. I tend to set a ship on a loop of collecting>depositing in a sector near to my PHQ, although obviously it's much less useful if they're far away from your PHQ
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May 30, 2023 11:43
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I tried a mission for MIN to escort some L freighter which spawned a huge incursion by VIG with 20+ barbarossas and 200+ fighters attacking this one ship and their shipyard. What the hell haha.
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May 30, 2023 11:52
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FrickenMoron posted:I tried a mission for MIN to escort some L freighter which spawned a huge incursion by VIG with 20+ barbarossas and 200+ fighters attacking this one ship and their shipyard. What the hell haha. I actually had the same thing happen last night too, as I was trying to boost relations with them! (I MAY have lost a bunch of rep due to Empyrean Curs plot fallout, ages back...) Crazy - I assume wiping out those spawned-in VIG ships permanently impacts relations with them? It's been a while since I last did a job like that, but I swear it's only ever been SCA/XEN/KHK who comes in on raids
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May 30, 2023 11:57
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Weirdly enough the Heron made it after I went oos. 3 barbarossas were glued to its rear end but couldnt destroy it in time, It had like 20% hp left. The rest of the VIG force all died to the min shipyard, that thing has some serious turrets.
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May 30, 2023 12:24
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Is there any reason why a station would send miners several sectors away? I've got 5 resource probes up in Heretic's End showing a ton of ore but my dudes keep going to Barren Shores instead for some reason.
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May 30, 2023 19:49
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Higher resource density, HE actually has pretty low density all things considered. IF you want them to not go there forbid activity in that sector.
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May 30, 2023 19:53
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Ahh thanks, that makes sense I guess.
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May 30, 2023 19:57
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Egosoft kinda gives you the tools but it's definitely not transparent as to why the AI managers make the decision they do. It's absolutely busy work setting up trade rules and blacklists, and even then it's super easy to miss a checkbox and suddenly you've effectively shut down your station because you newest rule is working against you default civilian travel rule, or you've hit the wrong checkbox and rather than telling your miners to avoid that sector, you've instructed them to only operate there and now they won't unload to your station that you've inadvertently blacklisted. I try to keep it down to a default rule to keep civilian ships out of enemy owned sectors ( but I have to manually add contested sector's as well - Zyarth would last longer if they did the same ), and an internal only trade rule. The system isn't perfectly simple, at one stage I managed to shut down all of my stations when I thought that since I was self sufficient I could default station trade, supply and ship sales to me only and then manually unrestrict the wares I wanted to dump on the market - it just stopped my interstation trade dead instead. I couldn't work out what went wrong so I had to revert to normal and then go back and manually restrict wares again which is pain in the rear end when you have over a dozen stations. ZombyDog fucked around with this message at 03:37 on May 31, 2023 |
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May 31, 2023 03:27
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This game has some weird interactions: Brantlee's Astrid got stuck outside the sector that Tidebreak is in, and when I went there to scan it, it was just stuck on "Fly to Leap of Faith" and "Calculating parameters", and I couldn't dock at it despite being told to do so. In trying to scan it, I accidentally shot it with a shield-breaker weapon, which made it hostile. Then the entire VIG sector descended on the suddenly-hostile Astrid, because I'd already gotten them to +20, only for them to stop shooting as soon as the pilots bailed, and I could take over the ship. I then did the talking and the throwing their poo poo in their face, at which point I lost ownership of the Astrid again, and could complete the plot up until being ready to port my PHQ onto the station - which I left for next day, since it was late. When I came back to the game after leaving it in SETA, the station I was supposed to destroy had disappeared, and I couldn't cause the Astrid to bail (not even using the trick of pause-buffering 100 laser towers, which can take down entire bases). So I finally just gave up, and paid the money to VIG to reset my rep, and am back at +20 with the questline completed. Still can't grab the Astrid, but the only thing I'd use it for is grabbing condensate since it can hold a lot of that, and since I have enough materials stocked up for two PHQ moves, I can just move the PHQ there whenever I need a big cash infusion, as I have the blueprint needed to build condensate ships.
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May 31, 2023 15:44
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I'm new to X4 from a decent amount of X3, and just got to the point where I can join the venture system. Should I? And if so, does the coalition / team I choose matter in terms of difficulty and rewards? Is there a goon team we're all picking if it matters? The posts here and elsewhere make it seem like my small amount of property (one corvette, 10 miners) is going to get steamrolled by someone who's been playing since the game came out.
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May 31, 2023 19:19
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The ventures are not really worthwhile at this moment. Also who was it that recently sided with Northriver and got in trouble with VIG after? I know why now after siding with Northriver myself. The defense station in Windfall I is an illegal plot because you don't own the sector. You need to pay for it!
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May 31, 2023 19:40
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Drunk Badger posted:I'm new to X4 from a decent amount of X3, and just got to the point where I can join the venture system. Should I? And if so, does the coalition / team I choose matter in terms of difficulty and rewards? Is there a goon team we're all picking if it matters? Doing multiverse ventures involves only having one savegame, so it's very easy to gently caress up. FrickenMoron posted:The ventures are not really worthwhile at this moment. I've been bitten so many times by illegal plots, but this time it wasn't me - I'd never side with Northriver 
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May 31, 2023 19:51
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I joined the ventures because I've been playing for more than 500 hours and figured I needed something new - for your first time around, especially if you want a chance to save often so that you can decide which plots you want to advance, you should stick to a regular game-start. Without too many spoilers, are there certain plots I should avoid? Or do you mean I can save when there's a fork in the mission path, and see where each side leads to?
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May 31, 2023 20:05
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Drunk Badger posted:Without too many spoilers, are there certain plots I should avoid? Or do you mean I can save when there's a fork in the mission path, and see where each side leads to? It, uhhh, can take a while to really feel the effects of some of the plot choices. If you're worried, just google the outcomes but you should generally know which choices will benefit you (war is always good for you if you're selling to one [or both] sides)
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May 31, 2023 20:08
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I'm tempted to just start over now that I have a good idea as to what I'm doing, probably keep the online save as stock but do an offline game with mods. Not sure if I want to pick an existing storyline, or go with a budgeted start. Are there any plot lines that are a pain to start if you don't use their associated game start, or do I just need to find the right sector in a custom start?
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May 31, 2023 20:32
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Drunk Badger posted:Without too many spoilers, are there certain plots I should avoid? Or do you mean I can save when there's a fork in the mission path, and see where each side leads to? I'm pretty sure all the plots that have big effects to the universe have a point where you have to go back to Dal and discuss your options. So you can keeps ping the plots till the point where Dal asks you come back to the HQ to make a choice.
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May 31, 2023 21:17
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Ice Fist posted:It, uhhh, can take a while to really feel the effects of some of the plot choices. If you're worried, just google the outcomes but you should generally know which choices will benefit you (war is always good for you if you're selling to one [or both] sides) The current seed I have, I've got everyone except ZYA and FRF allied (I don't think it's possible with ZYA and FRF?), I'm making a shitload of money just from ships being ordered to throw against the XEN grinder.
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May 31, 2023 22:38
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