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You could do a good editing pass and eliminate most of the political fluff, and most of the technical magic, and just focus on the assassination from his perspective which is the important bit. He can mess with gravity. Everyone is surprised. He has a blade that melts your eyes and cuts through stone. Everyone is horrified. What is this demon in our midst who we will eventually get a more calm perspective on.
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Jul 21, 2023 22:57
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M_Gargantua posted:You could do a good editing pass and eliminate most of the political fluff, and most of the technical magic, and just focus on the assassination from his perspective which is the important bit.
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Jul 21, 2023 23:00
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I think I'm being extra harsh because it comes after the shorter pre-prologue (of something clearly supposed to be important) where they just did a similar thing! Back to back prologues of a bunch of information you're not supposed to understand is not something that makes me feel like "Oh, I'm excited to learn more!"
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Jul 21, 2023 23:02
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Mordiceius posted:I think I'm being extra harsh because it comes after the shorter pre-prologue (of something clearly supposed to be important) where they just did a similar thing! Back to back prologues of a bunch of information you're not supposed to understand is not something that makes me feel like "Oh, I'm excited to learn more!" Chapter 1 is a third prologue. 
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Jul 21, 2023 23:04
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CapnAndy posted:I mean, I am strongly of the opinion that you could do a good editing pass on the whole book and end up with about 200 pages that go at the start of Words of Radiance. so far the stormlight archives is really only 2.5 good books
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Jul 21, 2023 23:05
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pik_d posted:Chapter 1 is a third prologue. I can't wait to get to the end of Rhythm of War - finally, the prologue is over!
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Jul 21, 2023 23:06
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scary ghost dog posted:so far the stormlight archives is really only 2.5 good books Mordiceius posted:I can't wait to get to the end of Rhythm of War - finally, the prologue is over!
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Jul 21, 2023 23:20
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I on the other hand love twok and would have read another three books solely of Kaladin barely living day to day smuggling herbs and poo poo around and half threatening people. it's very street level.
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Jul 21, 2023 23:32
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CapnAndy posted:Joke's on you, sucker! RoW is the prologue for KoWT! Knights of the Wide Table.
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Jul 21, 2023 23:33
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Half of Dracula posted:I on the other hand love twok and would have read another three books solely of Kaladin barely living day to day smuggling herbs and poo poo around and half threatening people. it's very street level. Agreed, Kaladin's depression is so real and grounding for the series
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Jul 21, 2023 23:44
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CapnAndy posted:I mean, I am strongly of the opinion that you could do a good editing pass on the whole book and end up with about 200 pages that go at the start of Words of Radiance. RoW is by far the most in need of this kind of editing pass, but I agree overall.
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Jul 21, 2023 23:45
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Lower dahn lighteyes in Twok: Alright "stormblessed", after your double shift at the slave army suicide squad, you're working nights in the suicide chasms. Try holding on to hope now, chull for brains!
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Jul 21, 2023 23:49
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aparmenideanmonad posted:RoW is by far the most in need of this kind of editing pass, but I agree overall.
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Jul 22, 2023 00:28
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Grundulum posted:Spoilers for Stormlight 1-4: The Szeth prologue is there because it’s an incredibly important moment in the development of that world. It’s why Sanderson keeps going back to it in each book, giving us a different point of view and peeling back more layers about what seemed to be, what actually was, and what wasn’t happening. From an authorial standpoint, I know why the Szeth prologue is there. What I don’t know is if there was a way to give that same information without tossing the reader into a blender of capitalized nouns and worldbuilding details. What alternatives are there? For those who don't watch Sanderson on the authorial side of things, here's a Q&A from DragonCon 2016 where he talks about the origins of Stormlight Archive, which was tied into his journey to publication: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GoPG2zpLgg&t=2420s TL;DR, The Way of Kings was Sanderson telling trad publishing to  and it's hilarious because now trad pub can't get enough of Sanderson because his books basically print money for them.That aside, there is more logic to structuring and writing it the way he has. Sanderson uses a "promise/progress/payoff" framework for plotting which is core to why the Sanderlanche works. The way he writes, he starts with an end in mind. (Generally, it's one of those cinematic, epic, Sanderlanche moments.) Then he outlines the book backwards to figure out how the characters get there from their starting point. Then he writes the book sequentially, start to finish. Here's a bit from his Q&A BYU lecture on character viewpoints that's relevant because he's answering a question about how long a book's introduction should be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVXFNw-xz3Y&t=145s Essentially, the opening signals the kind of story/tone/character arcs you're in for, i.e. his "promises". WoK is a long book in a long series. (Each Stormlight book is written as a trilogy stapled around a short story collection and there's gonna be 10 of them.) There's like 20-30 years of world building behind the lore. There are a lot of characters, factions, viewpoints, politics, etc. Religion is going to be huge. Timescales are going to be huge. Geographic scope is going to be huge. It's a hard magic system with firm rules on what you can/cannot do and those rules are intrinsically important to the story. Etc. Anyway, from an authorial standpoint, what you're trying to do with the opening of the book is grab your ideal readers and convince them to stick around. Often this can also mean getting those who aren't part of your target audience to nope out as quickly as possible too. The Szeth prologue has sections that are pretty clunky to read because they've got video game tutorial vibes. Sanderson could definitely write the Lashing stuff differently if he wanted to. But I suspect he made a deliberate choice to write it this way because whenever he has a choice of whether to make something more accessible to a wider audience, he generally chooses accessibility. So, yeah, you get Surgebinding 101 upfront prioritized because understanding how Windrunner powers (and Surgebinding generally) work is pretty important to WoK (and the series overall). In the scheme of the ~6k words or so of the chapter, it doesn't really take up that much word count. And since the first Szeth POV is a prologue (a very long one), the Fantasy Proper Noun Namesoup is all vibes at this point. WoK is focused on grounding you in Alethi culture and politics, Alethkar and the Shattered Plains. The Parshendi, the Shin, the other Vorin nations, etc—those don't matter at this point in the narrative and will get fleshed out later. The namedrops here serve both as foreshadowing and for reread value. It's legitimately fascinating to hear Sanderson talk about the conversations he had with his editor for WoK and WoR because his editor kept saying, "Why did you put this stuff in here? It's not relevant to any of the other stuff in this scene/chapter/part/book so it should get cut!" and he was like, "Nah, can't, I need that to be there or the thing I'm setting up in book X isn't going to work." You really don't get the payoff on everything set up in the Szeth prologue until several books later. Pretty much the entirety of a major plot line in RoW is a payoff on a minor-but-obviously-Significant-Thing in the Szeth prologue. Also the end of the whole ten-book series is apparently foreshadowed in WoK and WoR so... 
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Jul 22, 2023 02:33
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Yeah the first read it really seems like it is out of place to a huge degree but (spoilers for all storm light) the way that the viewpoints change each book and being able to get a more full picture of what the hell was actually going on at that party has been kind of cool
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Jul 22, 2023 03:54
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Stormlight The Way of Kings Prelude - Chapter 7 The prelude was very Age of Legends in Wheel of Time, with the type skip and things I assume the "modern" people would find impossible. Re-reading the prelude now, the 10 swords are "beyond even Shardblades" which is interesting, but It'll take a while to figure out what that means, probably. Also the capitalized word "Desolation" is raising "that's a shard" flags. I find it interesting that one fight they all just decided "nah, that's it, let's bounce". Kalak also calls Jezrien an "immortal god", so I'm wondering if they're still around 4,500 years later, or if they were only immortal because they kept getting remade for the next Desolation. Szeth was the more confusing of the "three prologues", though as I already said it makes a little more sense now. Honestly the biggest takeaway is breathing in the Stormlight from sapphires let him change gravity. He seems to have done this without a Soulcaster like Jasnah uses in future chapters. I haven't decided yet if Szeth is special in this ability or if the Soulcaster is just an easy way of doing things. Szeth says that the guards he fought were unfamiliar with what he did with the Stormlight. This makes me lean towards him being special in his ability to use it without a Soulcaster based on multiple people doing incredible things just six years later in the story. The other thing is obviously starting the war between the Parshendi and the Alethi. Plenty of people seem pretty racists towards the the Parshendi and Parshmen. I'm curious if the Parshmen are really as docile and mute as they seem, and the mottled patterns of their skin make me think of vitiligo but that's probably not quite correct. After the epigraphs in the Mistborn era 1 trilogy meaning so much, these "last words" that are collected are really confusing. Some of it seems to be very tiny worldbuilding pieces, some of them just seem useless. I'm also very interested in the fact that "shard", an important Cosmere word, is a common word in this world. Shardswords, shardbearer, shardplate, I can't assume it's a physical part of the shard, but just something infused by magic from the shard. Very cool, I wonder how much knowledge they really have about everything. Kaladin started out so bright, then he got his rear end kicked by a shardbearer and turned into a really bad slave. He absolutely seems to have some luck going on. He hasn't died when a lot of people around him have, multiple times it seems. In the Cenn chapter I thought it was just intelligence, but it seems like more now. I'm also super interested in seeing where Syl goes with her formation. I'm fairly certain that she's grown into the intelligent entity she is because she's spent so much time around Kaladin. I am not sure if that happens to any spren that spends time around an individual, or if Kaladin is special. Also there's too many kinds of spren. Shallan is funny. She's priveliged, but still driven. She's also got some an interesting capital-T Talent, her Memory. It seems like a photographic memory but possibly even more. I'm not sure about her plan on stealing Jasnah's Soulcaster, I feel like she's making a lot of assumptions about how easy the actual theft will be. I'm also curious about it being named Soulcaster, like maybe it's bound to the soul of the person who makes it. That could explain why Shallan's father's Soulcaster stopped working when he died, even when repaired. Even so, I wonder why Shallan isn't trying to make a new one? I don't know what that entails but she's really going all in on this plan. I also thought that Kaladin would end up at Shallan's slave, and he still might. It would probably be better than the bridge work. I'd honestly rather just die then do that. Progress so far: 
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Jul 23, 2023 01:54
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pik_d posted:Shallan is funny.  me hoping for another Shallan fan in the thread.
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Jul 23, 2023 03:09
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Leng posted:
Reporting in. Having her be the pin for secret book box 3 made me happy.
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Jul 23, 2023 04:10
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Leng posted:
Gonna have to see how into slavery she stays as the story goes on
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Jul 23, 2023 05:25
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pik_d posted:That could explain why Shallan's father's Soulcaster stopped working when he died, even when repaired. Even so, I wonder why Shallan isn't trying to make a new one? I don't know what that entails but she's really going all in on this plan. This is touched on a little further in this book and I don’t know if I would really consider it a spoiler but I’ll use spoiler tags anyway. The people of Roshar do not have the technology to create them anymore. It’s lost to time.
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Jul 23, 2023 07:30
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Big Shallan fan, will fight all haters. I think she's genuinely funny and very charming. (pik_d seriously don't read this bit) Also, I genuinely love how her superpowers are simultaneously the best and worst thing in the world for her, because you just gave the power to redefine truth to a girl with mountains of trauma and repressed memories, so good job, now she has magically-supercharged DID. Honestly, I think her lowest point -- when they're in Shadesmar for the first time and she's drat-near suffered ego death and babbling nonsense to Adolin about how Shallan isn't there right now, she'll remember how to do that illusion when she's not so tired, before latching onto him and pathetically offering that hey, what if they just make someone new instead who's actually worthy of love, he could just tell her who to be, wouldn't that be great for both of them? -- one of the most affecting in the series. Poor girl. pointlessone posted:Reporting in. Having her be the pin for secret book box 3 made me happy. 
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Jul 23, 2023 21:54
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So I just finished up Yumi and I have a few spoiler-ish thoughts about it: I really loved that it was clearly a love letter to his wife, beep-boop Hoid/Sanderson lovebot insert and all I also had big time Final Fantasy X vibes from it before reading the last little bit by Brandon at the end where he said it was his favorite video game and a big inspiration. I really felt like one of them wasn't going to be real, especially after the "no, actually you are on the same planet" bomb dropped I felt that the not real one was going to be Yumi and it was because Painter was going to be stuck in some weird space with a Nightmare sucking down his spirit The nightmares kind of reminded me of the unmade in that what happens to something when you strip away one of the three pillars of investiture. In their case, they were seperated from their souls by the machine and the miasma was sort of... spiritual pollution which I wonder if we see pop up elsewhere I also think it was intresting that now we know Hoid was aware his memories were being tampered with by Odium, so I wonder what the long term fall-out was other than defense mechanisms that turned him into a statue to begin with I wouldn't say it is the best of his books, and it took me a bit to get into it, but I enjoyed it overall.
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Jul 23, 2023 22:23
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How is there a Shallan pin I don't have and people are eBaying a Vasher pin I don't have, what the gently caress, I thought there weren't supposed to be boxes on book months? I'm genuinely annoyed.
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Jul 23, 2023 22:25
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CapnAndy posted:How is there a Shallan pin I don't have and people are eBaying a Vasher pin I don't have, what the gently caress, I thought there weren't supposed to be boxes on book months? I'm genuinely annoyed. I only got the book and it came in a box??
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Jul 23, 2023 22:34
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The box is the book on book months. Tress had Vin, Frugal Wizard had Vasher, and Yumi has Shallan.
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Jul 23, 2023 22:35
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Oh no, I only got digital books 
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Jul 23, 2023 22:47
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CapnAndy posted:What the heck!!! I got Hoid, Sterris, Wax, and that Elantrian guy. I want a Shallan pin I'll totally trade Shallan for Hoid if you're down.
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Jul 24, 2023 02:02
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KKKLIP ART posted:I also had big time Final Fantasy X vibes from it before reading the last little bit by Brandon at the end where he said it was his favorite video game and a big inspiration. I really felt like one of them wasn't going to be real, especially after the "no, actually you are on the same planet" bomb dropped Yumi / Final Fantasy X spoilers I love how he brought up FFX in the afterward in a way that didn't spoil the whole Tidus Zanarkand ending. He's all "FFX was a big influence for their fantasy jobs" which is perfectly acceptable sounding for someone who hasn't beaten it. But anyone who has finished it knows exactly what was influenced by the game. So it's a nice nod to the fans without ruining things for someone who decides to give the game a try.
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Jul 24, 2023 03:25
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Alkanos posted:Yumi / Final Fantasy X spoilers Did you read the second epilogue where Yumi kicks a booby-trapped soccer ball and it explodes, killing her again.
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Jul 24, 2023 03:51
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KKKLIP ART posted:
Yumi + general cosmere: I thought this was a reference to his situation in tress and not to his situation at the end of row
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Jul 24, 2023 07:03
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Leng posted:
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Jul 24, 2023 08:14
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Stormlight WoK chapters 8-11 & Part 1 Interludes Shallan basically force-of-wills her way into Jasnah's life, is my takeaway from chapter 8. She write the letter, she doesn't leave, she immediately goes to get some books to fill in her gaps, and she doesn't back down if Jasnah gives her an inch. She's very driven. Still is ok with slavery so there's that, and she wants to steal the Soulcaster from someone who doesn't seem like a bad person. Also Jasnah is the daughter of the king that Szeth killed. Seems important. After having read a bunch of chapters alternating between Shallan and Kaladin I expected that to continue, so getting a bunch of Kaladin in a row was surprising. I was a little worried about Syl when she left, but I figured her arc wasn't done so I knew she'd come back. Coming back with a method of suicide, while he's about to commit suicide by jumping, that I did not expect. Turns out suicides are multiplicative and two negatives made a positive, so he's still alive and more driven than ever. I thought Kaladin was going to kill Gaz, leaving him alive, even with a small bribe, doesn't seem like a situation that can last for long. Though to be fair, Kaladin needs to continue on with his story, he can't just be a slave for the whole book. Kaladin's backstory was unexpected, sad that he was never a doctor like his dad wanted. Maybe he'll doctor up the lands, either literally or metaphorically. Lotta weird things in this Ishikk interlude. The whole lake, that spans for hundreds miles, but never more than six feet deep? The Purelake is just a very wide puddle. Then the people in this village like to have everything slightly flooded so their feet are in the water? They also believe in lucky fish, and don't cover their shoulders when the sun is out. Suns out guns out as a way of life. I'm curious if this Purelake is magic of some kind, or if they're just really superstitious. But maybe more importantly, "his" foreigners have him looking for Hoid, who they also call the Roamer. Which, yeah, he's roaming from world to world. Maybe looking for a way to gain some magic, maybe just learning? I really hope Nan Balat isn't a POV character that often. He's got that future serial killer vibes even though he's adamant to himself that he would never kill people. Weird interlude, didn't even get to see what the big problem that Wikim mentions is. Szeth is back, and he's got some religious fetish to be dominated by anyone who touches his... rock. And now he's the slave of some cutthroats. Cool. Looking at the map, Szeth is along the path that Ishikk would probably take to go anywhere in the west, where the rest of out POV characters are. Probably a coincidence but who knows. Spoilers: Elantris, Warbreaker, Mistborn era 1, WoK Part 1 Interludes Some other people I talk to about the Cosmere prodded me into the fact that Blunt, Grump, and Thinker are people known (to readers) in the greater Cosmere universe. I actually got that Thinker was Demoux in one, based on the scar that he got from the Koloss. The "translations" got me confused about Grump, though him being Galladon makes sense with the "Understand?"/"Sule?". I had been looking for people who ended sentences with ", friend.", of which there are a lot. I apparently haven't met Blunt's true identity yet, though my first guess was a Returned God. Please don't give me any hints for Blunt.
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Jul 24, 2023 19:40
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pik_d posted:Stormlight WoK chapters 8-11 & Part 1 Interludes Louisgod posted:I'll totally trade Shallan for Hoid if you're down.
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Jul 24, 2023 21:03
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So one thing that is interesting from the WoK prologue is (pik_d no click) the king that Szeth kills mentions Thaidakar. I've seen mentioned in this thread that Thaidakar is the leader of the Ghostbloods and in The Lost Metal, it talks about the Ghostbloods being Kelsier's thing. So Thaidakar is Kelsier. No idea how that has any influence on this world at this point. I need to catch up to pik_d so I can see how our views change on things being that I have that major piece of information that he doesn't.
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Jul 24, 2023 21:14
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I will "spoil" that it becomes a plot point that that the good guys are against slavery
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Jul 24, 2023 21:14
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M_Gargantua posted:I will "spoil" that it becomes a plot point that that the good guys are against slavery
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Jul 24, 2023 21:58
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The good guy against slavery is Moash, no further questions
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Jul 24, 2023 22:10
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CapnAndy posted:You're going to have to give people at least a temporary and provisional pass on the slavery thing if you want to like anyone. It's systemic. I'm spoilering this bit not because it's a spoiler, but just because I can't remember if it's something that's been explicitly explained to you yet or not: they live in a world with an actual separate species who are, in fact, only barely sapient. Unlike our world, there's a very strong possibility that the Parsh, left to their own devices, would simply die because they're incapable of caring for themselves. given that they have had thousands of years of cultural transmission of their burial rituals, and parshmen that act too smart get punished, I think the Alethi perspective is at best a semi-intentional self-delusion
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Jul 24, 2023 22:17
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Tunicate posted:Well, except that The Azish handled it the best out of anyone, as far as I'm concerned. Got asked for reparations, immediately agreed, sat down to negotiate. Good dudes.
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Jul 24, 2023 22:20
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Mordiceius posted:So one thing that is interesting from the WoK prologue is (pik_d no click) the king that Szeth kills mentions Thaidakar. I've seen mentioned in this thread that Thaidakar is the leader of the Ghostbloods and in The Lost Metal, it talks about the Ghostbloods being Kelsier's thing. So Thaidakar is Kelsier. No idea how that has any influence on this world at this point. I need to catch up to pik_d so I can see how our views change on things being that I have that major piece of information that he doesn't. This is why I recommend publishing date. So yeah, you will get spoiled on this detail if you read The Lost Metal before the Stormlight Archive books, and it's not an insignificant detail.
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Jul 25, 2023 02:04
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