Wrestling Fraudcasts: OJ was a wrestling fan. Please don't ask how I know this stuff.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Wrestling Fraudcasts: OJ was a wrestling fan. Please don't ask how I know this stuff.

«‹›944 »

HidaO-Win: Jun 5, 2013; "And I did it, because I was a man who had exhausted reason and thus turned to magicks"

Listened to Lanza about All In, he was making some good points, but I think the most interesting one he made was about MJF and how much power he has in the company.

Ever since his All Out 2022 return, MJF has been positioned as the number one guy in the company. He gets the most screen time, the choicest spots and clearly has final say on his creative and as a result the creative of the top end of the company since becoming champ. Most troublingly, his biggest push starts after he is the first person to very visibly snub Tony Khan and make Double or Nothing all about himself rather than put Wardlow over cleanly, which really cut the legs out from under Wardlow.

He got the big entrance at the end of All Out 2022 which set him up for the biggest pop of the night. He beats Moxley for the championship in a feud that Moxley was visibly pissed off at. My big red flag here was him describing his run as a Triple H style �Reign of Terror.� and himself as a generational talent. The Reign of Terror was a disaster that drove away more people from wrestling than anything else and a generational talent by definition needs to be a draw and I was interested in seeing if MJF is a draw.

From then on, he basically starts auditioning people for the other side of his Bloodline angle. He tries out Ricky Starks, feuded with him and despite some strong reactions with Ricky, he beats him pretty conclusively and Starks booking has been uneven since then. Then he feuds with Danielson, who he beats so bad Danielson turns full heel. He tries out the other pillars for his co-star role, Sammy comes the closest but in the end he triumphs over all of them. Then he gets to Adam Cole, his brochacho and we go full Bloodline. Now, in contrast to his other angles, this is by far the most over of them to the audience, but it�s also the most indulgent by far, full of schtick and pre tapes. This is clearly MJFs vision of pro wrestling, where he is both Top Heel and Top Babyface simultaneously. He has a lot of stroke at this point. Punk gets shut down when he tries to set himself up as a challenger to MJF at All Out. MJF is definitely in full control of his run at this point.

All In 2023 may be the pinnacle of this run. By coincidence or design, every other matches build on this card is underwhelming as gently caress.
He gets the first match at All In where he squashes Aussie Open for the ROH Tag Team Titles and he gets the full Main Event Bloodline as well. Punk gets the first PPV match, but the Elite are relegated to the 2nd and 3rd matches on the main card, which Jericho once described as an insulting spot to get when he was slotted in a similar place on the card at Wrestlemania. He also described the two best slots as going on first and going on last. Whatever you think about Jericho he has finely tuned senses about this stuff and he�s not usually wrong. So All In 2023 turns out to be all about MJF. Tony Khan has picked his guy.

Now the Brochacholine is definitely over in the building, does good quarter hours and if it starts turning around ticket sales, this is the right thing to do. However ticket sales are soft as hell. It�d be wrong to credit them for the Wembley sales, they were done on the strength of the AEW brand and the debut in Europe. So we shall see as things go along. I do hope Tony actually has MJF under an extended contract as things could go very wrong if he doesn�t.

I do also think about how everyone else in the company feels about the MJF show. It also seems like All Out 2023 will be MJFless and I think that is going to make it feel like a real afterthought as a PPV. I also have no idea who challenges MJF next, I don�t think anyone has been credibly built. Kingston feels very far away from this angle and he definitely felt like a challenger being set up for the endgame of MJFs reign. I think Cole will eventually dethrone him, but that could be months down the line. Again, this works fine if MJF is a top draw like Hogan, Austin, the Rock or Cena, but I�ve seen no evidence he is, but Tony Khan is all in on him like he is.

# ? Aug 29, 2023 11:08

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 8, 2024 09:15

Quantum of Phallus: Dec 27, 2010

HidaO-Win posted:

Listened to Lanza about All In, he was making some good points, but I think the most interesting one he made was about MJF and how much power he has in the company.

Ever since his All Out 2022 return, MJF has been positioned as the number one guy in the company. He gets the most screen time, the choicest spots and clearly has final say on his creative and as a result the creative of the top end of the company since becoming champ. Most troublingly, his biggest push starts after he is the first person to very visibly snub Tony Khan and make Double or Nothing all about himself rather than put Wardlow over cleanly, which really cut the legs out from under Wardlow.

He got the big entrance at the end of All Out 2022 which set him up for the biggest pop of the night. He beats Moxley for the championship in a feud that Moxley was visibly pissed off at. My big red flag here was him describing his run as a Triple H style �Reign of Terror.� and himself as a generational talent. The Reign of Terror was a disaster that drove away more people from wrestling than anything else and a generational talent by definition needs to be a draw and I was interested in seeing if MJF is a draw.

From then on, he basically starts auditioning people for the other side of his Bloodline angle. He tries out Ricky Starks, feuded with him and despite some strong reactions with Ricky, he beats him pretty conclusively and Starks booking has been uneven since then. Then he feuds with Danielson, who he beats so bad Danielson turns full heel. He tries out the other pillars for his co-star role, Sammy comes the closest but in the end he triumphs over all of them. Then he gets to Adam Cole, his brochacho and we go full Bloodline. Now, in contrast to his other angles, this is by far the most over of them to the audience, but it�s also the most indulgent by far, full of schtick and pre tapes. This is clearly MJFs vision of pro wrestling, where he is both Top Heel and Top Babyface simultaneously. He has a lot of stroke at this point. Punk gets shut down when he tries to set himself up as a challenger to MJF at All Out. MJF is definitely in full control of his run at this point.

All In 2023 may be the pinnacle of this run. By coincidence or design, every other matches build on this card is underwhelming as gently caress.
He gets the first match at All In where he squashes Aussie Open for the ROH Tag Team Titles and he gets the full Main Event Bloodline as well. Punk gets the first PPV match, but the Elite are relegated to the 2nd and 3rd matches on the main card, which Jericho once described as an insulting spot to get when he was slotted in a similar place on the card at Wrestlemania. He also described the two best slots as going on first and going on last. Whatever you think about Jericho he has finely tuned senses about this stuff and he�s not usually wrong. So All In 2023 turns out to be all about MJF. Tony Khan has picked his guy.

Now the Brochacholine is definitely over in the building, does good quarter hours and if it starts turning around ticket sales, this is the right thing to do. However ticket sales are soft as hell. It�d be wrong to credit them for the Wembley sales, they were done on the strength of the AEW brand and the debut in Europe. So we shall see as things go along. I do hope Tony actually has MJF under an extended contract as things could go very wrong if he doesn�t.

I do also think about how everyone else in the company feels about the MJF show. It also seems like All Out 2023 will be MJFless and I think that is going to make it feel like a real afterthought as a PPV. I also have no idea who challenges MJF next, I don�t think anyone has been credibly built. Kingston feels very far away from this angle and he definitely felt like a challenger being set up for the endgame of MJFs reign. I think Cole will eventually dethrone him, but that could be months down the line. Again, this works fine if MJF is a top draw like Hogan, Austin, the Rock or Cena, but I�ve seen no evidence he is, but Tony Khan is all in on him like he is.

what in the goddamn gently caress are you talking about, so much of this is opinion, speculation or just wrong.

# ? Aug 29, 2023 11:17

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Who bought Punk an account.

# ? Aug 29, 2023 11:23

MJeff: Jun 2, 2011; THE LIAR

The Cole MJF story is terrible, but I dunno what any of that was or what it has to do with anything Lanza said.

# ? Aug 29, 2023 11:26

History Comes Inside!: Nov 20, 2004

IMPR TCTD

# ? Aug 29, 2023 11:26

Incessant Excess: Aug 15, 2005; Cause of glitch:
Pretentiousness

HidaO-Win posted:

Listened to Lanza about All In, he was making some good points, but I think the most interesting one he made was about MJF and how much power he has in the company.

Ever since his All Out 2022 return, MJF has been positioned as the number one guy in the company. He gets the most screen time, the choicest spots and clearly has final say on his creative and as a result the creative of the top end of the company since becoming champ. Most troublingly, his biggest push starts after he is the first person to very visibly snub Tony Khan and make Double or Nothing all about himself rather than put Wardlow over cleanly, which really cut the legs out from under Wardlow.

He got the big entrance at the end of All Out 2022 which set him up for the biggest pop of the night. He beats Moxley for the championship in a feud that Moxley was visibly pissed off at. My big red flag here was him describing his run as a Triple H style �Reign of Terror.� and himself as a generational talent. The Reign of Terror was a disaster that drove away more people from wrestling than anything else and a generational talent by definition needs to be a draw and I was interested in seeing if MJF is a draw.

From then on, he basically starts auditioning people for the other side of his Bloodline angle. He tries out Ricky Starks, feuded with him and despite some strong reactions with Ricky, he beats him pretty conclusively and Starks booking has been uneven since then. Then he feuds with Danielson, who he beats so bad Danielson turns full heel. He tries out the other pillars for his co-star role, Sammy comes the closest but in the end he triumphs over all of them. Then he gets to Adam Cole, his brochacho and we go full Bloodline. Now, in contrast to his other angles, this is by far the most over of them to the audience, but it�s also the most indulgent by far, full of schtick and pre tapes. This is clearly MJFs vision of pro wrestling, where he is both Top Heel and Top Babyface simultaneously. He has a lot of stroke at this point. Punk gets shut down when he tries to set himself up as a challenger to MJF at All Out. MJF is definitely in full control of his run at this point.

All In 2023 may be the pinnacle of this run. By coincidence or design, every other matches build on this card is underwhelming as gently caress.
He gets the first match at All In where he squashes Aussie Open for the ROH Tag Team Titles and he gets the full Main Event Bloodline as well. Punk gets the first PPV match, but the Elite are relegated to the 2nd and 3rd matches on the main card, which Jericho once described as an insulting spot to get when he was slotted in a similar place on the card at Wrestlemania. He also described the two best slots as going on first and going on last. Whatever you think about Jericho he has finely tuned senses about this stuff and he�s not usually wrong. So All In 2023 turns out to be all about MJF. Tony Khan has picked his guy.

Now the Brochacholine is definitely over in the building, does good quarter hours and if it starts turning around ticket sales, this is the right thing to do. However ticket sales are soft as hell. It�d be wrong to credit them for the Wembley sales, they were done on the strength of the AEW brand and the debut in Europe. So we shall see as things go along. I do hope Tony actually has MJF under an extended contract as things could go very wrong if he doesn�t.

I do also think about how everyone else in the company feels about the MJF show. It also seems like All Out 2023 will be MJFless and I think that is going to make it feel like a real afterthought as a PPV. I also have no idea who challenges MJF next, I don�t think anyone has been credibly built. Kingston feels very far away from this angle and he definitely felt like a challenger being set up for the endgame of MJFs reign. I think Cole will eventually dethrone him, but that could be months down the line. Again, this works fine if MJF is a top draw like Hogan, Austin, the Rock or Cena, but I�ve seen no evidence he is, but Tony Khan is all in on him like he is.

this is basically the lanza rant from the last vow show except with some more headcanon sprinkled in. im not the biggest mjf fan in the world but at least they picked a guy and are going full throttle with him, better than half measures imo

# ? Aug 29, 2023 11:30

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

I don't know who this Lanza guy is but he sounds dumb as gently caress.

# ? Aug 29, 2023 11:31

Incessant Excess: Aug 15, 2005; Cause of glitch:
Pretentiousness

he is like bryan in that he does fun rants and charges a lot for his podcasts

# ? Aug 29, 2023 11:39

Suplex Liberace: Jan 18, 2012

Bix your incredibly hard sell for the BTS patreon worked this last episode on me. I do notice that you make over 2000 us dollars a month and Kris has bad audio normally but he has horrendous audio on this WCW Discrimination Lawsuits episode. Im going to beg the two of you to buy him anything from a pro setup to a nice mic to a nice gamer headset. Ole Anderson interview paints WCW in a extremly bad light, everytime you quote them saying "what do you owe them" i get madder.

# ? Aug 29, 2023 13:09

Endless Mike: Aug 13, 2003

Can't believe MJF used his pull on Coward Tony to make the top championship match go on last.

# ? Aug 29, 2023 15:20

Gaz-L: Jan 28, 2009

He also connived to make the returning star who was main-eventing before he got injured be in the main event angle.

# ? Aug 30, 2023 00:03

apophenium: Apr 14, 2009; Cry 'Mayhem!' and let slip the dogs of Wardlow.

Judging by all the salty tweets Dave is fending off next WOR is gonna be an all-timer.

# ? Aug 30, 2023 02:49

1glitch0: Sep 4, 2018; I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT SHE BELIEVES THE HARRY POTTER BOOKS CHANGED MY LIFE #HUFFLEPUFF

apophenium posted:

Judging by all the salty tweets Dave is fending off next WOR is gonna be an all-timer.

https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/status/1696695102134255617

lol

# ? Aug 30, 2023 02:55

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Bryan got Covid, hope Dave didn't :smith:

# ? Aug 30, 2023 03:27

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

Quantum of Phallus posted:

what in the goddamn gently caress are you talking about, so much of this is opinion, speculation or just wrong.

Lanza is a New York Sports Talk Radio host in podcast form. He gets mad and rants about stuff, sometimes it is accurate, sometimes it is his very specific mindset and set after an hour tangent about baseball. (He gets good scoops sometimes though)

MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Aug 30, 2023

# ? Aug 30, 2023 03:28

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Jerusalem posted:

Bryan got Covid, hope Dave didn't

dave was already patient 0, he's immune now

# ? Aug 30, 2023 03:32

Kennel: May 1, 2008; BAWWW-UNH!

Endless Mike posted:

Can't believe MJF used his pull on Coward Tony to make the top championship match go on last.

Before that he used his evil powers to not main event the previous two ppv shows.

# ? Aug 30, 2023 03:45

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Raskolnikov38 posted:

dave was already patient 0, he's immune now

Covid tried to infect his cells but they talked it to death.

# ? Aug 30, 2023 03:47

Quantum of Phallus: Dec 27, 2010

MassRafTer posted:

Lanza is a New York Sports Talk Radio host in podcast form. He gets mad and rants about stuff, sometimes it is accurate, sometimes it is his very specific mindset and set after an hour tangent about baseball. (He gets good scoops sometimes though)

he sounds like a dumbass to me

# ? Aug 30, 2023 08:11

keithy george: Jan 8, 2008

I�m not going to dissect the long post but Ricky Starks� booking has always been all over the place, and �the champion immediately feuds with someone and beats them� is normal. It�s funny to get concerned about MJF making a joke about the reign of terror. Also if you pack a card, someone has to have the second and third match, it�s not the 90s any more and shows are built for pacing rather than being an ascending star power lineup.

# ? Aug 30, 2023 08:40

PaybackJack: May 21, 2003; You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

The only thing I think you could have claimed was that Starks could have won the ring then donated it to charity for Christmas; as a babyface doesn't need it to win matches. Then when he turned heel Starks could have used the ring to win, and the announcers could have flipped out that he lied back in December when he said he donated it.

That said I could see Roddy winning it this year as part of the "Cole screws MJF" in every way possible storyline.

# ? Aug 30, 2023 11:49

D.N. Nation: Feb 1, 2012

Vinny thinking Kurt Cobain died in 2004 is an all-timer

# ? Aug 30, 2023 16:43

DLC Inc: Jun 1, 2011

I can't address every part of that hilariously loving awful Lanza screed but the funniest is calling the MJF/Cole storyline a "Bloodline angle" which is basically this tweet

https://twitter.com/afraidofwasps/status/1177301482464526337?s=20

# ? Aug 30, 2023 17:24

MJeff: Jun 2, 2011; THE LIAR

DLC Inc posted:

I can't address every part of that hilariously loving awful Lanza screed but the funniest is calling the MJF/Cole storyline a "Bloodline angle" which is basically this tweet

https://twitter.com/afraidofwasps/status/1177301482464526337?s=20

People in AEW have referred to the MJF/Cole storyline as "our Bloodline", soooooo.

# ? Aug 30, 2023 17:33

projecthalaxy: Dec 27, 2008; Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son

Kurt Angle was on Chris Van Vliet and ANNIHILATED meltz with FACTS AND LOGIC

Kurt Angle posted:

"It's his opinion, I will respect that," Angle said. "I do understand he's very knowledgeable of wrestling. Maybe he just doesn't like my style, I don't know. But it's unfortunate that I don't have a five-star match from him, considering people take his word as valuable. They look at him and say 'Okay, this is the guy who rates the matches, and he's pretty accurate with it.' ... I don't know what to say. I'm really surprised I haven't had one five-star match, but that's his opinion, and I have to respect it." That said, Angle does have several matches he thinks were worthy of a five-star rating, and he had no problem rattling several of them off.

"Undertaker, No Way Out 2006," Angle offered up. "Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 21. Eddie Guerrero, SummerSlam 2004. Brock Lesnar, Iron Man Match, on 'SmackDown.' Geez, I would say ... my first World Title against The Rock. There's a lot of matches, I'm sorry man. Me personally, I would rate myself five stars for about 20 of the matches, but that's not necessarily going to be true."

(Not actually but its always interesting to hear talent talk about the snowflakes.)

# ? Aug 30, 2023 17:35

duckdealer: Feb 28, 2011

MJeff posted:

People in AEW have referred to the MJF/Cole storyline as "our Bloodline", soooooo.

Yeah Lanza is unfortunately right about the MJF / Adam Cole stuff being the same type of thing as the Bloodline.

I would argue that AEW's version is not nearly as bad but the comparison is correct.

# ? Aug 30, 2023 17:55

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

there is no way undertaker has ever had a 5 star match, sorry kurt

# ? Aug 30, 2023 18:01

Malcolm Excellent: May 20, 2007; Buglord

Undertaker shoot fighting Goldberg in Saudi Arabian was a personal 5 star match for me.

I love old guys attempting to kill each other on screen

# ? Aug 30, 2023 18:09

projecthalaxy: Dec 27, 2008; Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son

I haven't seen the taker/kurt match since it aired but it's popular. The Michaels/Eddie/Brock citations are all stellar and meltz is a hater

# ? Aug 30, 2023 18:11

Gumball Gumption: Jan 7, 2012

Wrestlers shouldn't take it too personally when so much of what goes into a five star match are external factors like the crowd. I think there are a lot of 4.5 and 4.75 matches that were dragged down entirely by the external bullshit of WWE.

# ? Aug 30, 2023 18:14

Quantum of Phallus: Dec 27, 2010

duckdealer posted:

Yeah Lanza is unfortunately right about the MJF / Adam Cole stuff being the same type of thing as the Bloodline.

I would argue that AEW's version is not nearly as bad but the comparison is correct.

Explain

# ? Aug 30, 2023 18:19

History Comes Inside!: Nov 20, 2004

MJF has a special belt so it�s literally the same

# ? Aug 30, 2023 18:23

disaster pastor: May 1, 2007

Gumball Gumption posted:

Wrestlers shouldn't take it too personally when so much of what goes into a five star match are external factors like the crowd. I think there are a lot of 4.5 and 4.75 matches that were dragged down entirely by the external bullshit of WWE.

Also, Angle's career suffers in Meltzer's ratings because Angle was at his peak in the years when Meltzer largely gave up on wrestling and focused on MMA. He gave Angle/Undertaker 4, Angle/Michaels at Wrestlemania 4.75 (and at Vengeance, 4.5), Angle/Guerrero at Summerslam 3.75, Angle/Lesnar 4.25 and Angle/Rock 4.25. But he just wasn't giving out as many 5s during that period as he "normally" does:

If they'd come a little earlier or quite a bit later, at least the Michaels matches would almost certainly have gotten 5 stars.

# ? Aug 30, 2023 18:25

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

disaster pastor posted:

Also, Angle's career suffers in Meltzer's ratings because Angle was at his peak in the years when Meltzer largely gave up on wrestling and focused on MMA. He gave Angle/Undertaker 4, Angle/Michaels at Wrestlemania 4.75 (and at Vengeance, 4.5), Angle/Guerrero at Summerslam 3.75, Angle/Lesnar 4.25 and Angle/Rock 4.25. But he just wasn't giving out as many 5s during that period as he "normally" does:

If they'd come a little earlier or quite a bit later, at least the Michaels matches would almost certainly have gotten 5 stars.

Meltzer never largely gave up on wrestling.

# ? Aug 30, 2023 18:26

disaster pastor: May 1, 2007

MassRafTer posted:

Meltzer never largely gave up on wrestling.

OK, fair, but he certainly had a lesser opinion of it during that decade than he did outside of it (and I'm not saying he was wrong to do so!).

# ? Aug 30, 2023 18:27

projecthalaxy: Dec 27, 2008; Yes hello it is I Kurt's Secret Son

disaster pastor posted:

OK, fair, but he certainly had a lesser opinion of it during that decade than he did outside of it (and I'm not saying he was wrong to do so!).

I think we're supposed to lie and say his opinions are unchanging and correct.

# ? Aug 30, 2023 18:57

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

disaster pastor posted:

OK, fair, but he certainly had a lesser opinion of it during that decade than he did outside of it (and I'm not saying he was wrong to do so!).

He was almost ready to give up doing the Observer after Wrestlemania 1.

# ? Aug 30, 2023 18:58

disaster pastor: May 1, 2007

MassRafTer posted:

He was almost ready to give up doing the Observer after Wrestlemania 1.

Yeah, I really enjoy this fact. RIP the Observer!

# ? Aug 30, 2023 19:05

flashy_mcflash: Feb 7, 2011

disaster pastor posted:

Yeah, I really enjoy this fact. RIP the Observer!

I've seen this before, but what did the issue immediately following this look like? How did he justify walking this back?

# ? Aug 30, 2023 19:08

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 8, 2024 09:15

Trying: Sep 26, 2019

Everybody ragequits now & then

# ? Aug 30, 2023 19:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Wrestling Fraudcasts: OJ was a wrestling fan. Please don't ask how I know this stuff.

«‹›944 »