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Lothal Weapon
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Sep 10, 2023 14:18
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I haven’t seen Clone Wars. Are there examples there of two-on-one saber fights that go well for the two? Because most of the examples I can think of from other shows or movies suggest that even two trained Jedi fighting together will enconter problems if they gang up on one Sith instead of clowning on mobs of regular enemies. Maul manages to separate his foes; Dooku only loses his rematch when Anakin has to solo him. Rey/Ren fight together well but aren’t really in a two-on-one saber duel at any point. The Rebels fights I can think of follow the Revenge of the Sith pattern where one combatant gets taken out of the fight and the remaining one wins, but I may be forgetting a few as there are a lot more “two Jedi versus some number of Inquisitors” situations. I’d assume Clone Wars has more two-on-one situations.
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Sep 10, 2023 14:56
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It's the inverse ninja law. The more parties on your side, the weaker they become.
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Sep 10, 2023 15:03
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OldSenileGuy posted:The ST did all sorts of hyperspace stuff I didn’t really like. VII had Han jumping to hyperspace while stuck to a tentacle monster inside the docking bay of another ship, AND the part where he comes out of hyperspace in the atmosphere Rogue One I give a pass because K2 specifically calls out the danger and Andor makes the jump blind because the alternative is the ship being swallowed by a tide of rock and earth. Because they're main characters they roll the hard six they need not to bounce too close to a supernova or fly into a planet's mass shadow when he takes the risk. They don't dwell on it afterward or specifically draw it out for the audience and honestly that's fine; Star Wars is all about maintaining forward momentum.
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Sep 10, 2023 15:08
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OldSenileGuy posted:The ST did all sorts of hyperspace stuff I didn’t really like. VII had Han jumping to hyperspace while stuck to a tentacle monster inside the docking bay of another ship, AND the part where he comes out of hyperspace in the atmosphere Rogue One's is completely fine given the situation. All you care at that moment is not being under the loving Death Star and anywhere else is better. Jump for a moment to put some distance, pull out of Hyperspace, then calculate a proper jump. The Holdo Maneuver's fine too. The whole wank about "But why doesn't everyone do it??" is pointless because to do any decent damage you just wasted a whole starship. And now you don't have a starship anymore that can do a whole lot more over time than get exploded once.
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Sep 10, 2023 15:09
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if holdo's attack was as effective as the cinematography made it look, someone would've invented cruise missiles. what's actually going on is that she's drawing attention via a spectacular kamikaze maneuver that - as bizarre as this sounds because of what's on screen - doesn't do that much damage. After Kylo gets up from hitting his head, he and Hux send all their forces down to Crait and it doesn't seem to have had a meaningful impact on their deployment. which makes sense, seeing as it's thematically in line with luke showing up and doing a big song and dance routine that doesn't actually accomplish anything while all twelve surviving resistance members get in the millennium falcon. it's a fruitless symbolic gesture that reaffirms that the person doing it truly believes in
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Sep 10, 2023 15:23
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Sure would have made the trench run more interesting. "Stay on target... stay on target... ok everyone hit your hyperdrive. All for Ackbar!"
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Sep 10, 2023 15:27
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I'm fine with the Holdo Maneuver being a one-in-a-million confluence. Enemy vessel moving heedlessly at EXACTLY such and such vector projecting EXACTLY such and such mass shadow at a constant bearing decreasing range in hyperspace with EXACTLY enough time to plot to the thousandth decimal place a hyperspace jump to something within visual range.
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Sep 10, 2023 15:32
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Why put people in your MC 80 when you can just point them at a star destroyer? What do you mean this applies to any surface ship in real life and we don't use them like that?
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Sep 10, 2023 15:52
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Narsham posted:I haven’t seen Clone Wars. Are there examples there of two-on-one saber fights that go well for the two? Because most of the examples I can think of from other shows or movies suggest that even two trained Jedi fighting together will enconter problems if they gang up on one Sith instead of clowning on mobs of regular enemies. Maul manages to separate his foes; Dooku only loses his rematch when Anakin has to solo him. Rey/Ren fight together well but aren’t really in a two-on-one saber duel at any point. Savage and Maul have a couple of wins together, at least. Anakin/Obi Wan/Ahsoka at least have some draws between them.
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Sep 10, 2023 16:00
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Darko posted:Savage and Maul have a couple of wins together, at least. Anakin/Obi Wan/Ahsoka at least have some draws between them. The emperor wipes the floor with them both
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Sep 10, 2023 16:08
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Stegosnaurlax posted:The emperor wipes the floor with them both Well sure but the whole gimmick of the Sith is that they need powerful allies but not powerful enough to take them down, so they never teach everything and stay the most powerful dude around (in theory) It makes sense the the pinnacle sith at any given time is probably the most powerful individual alive by a lot of metrics, equal to several powerful Jedi who won't be able to do literally half of what he's capable of
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Sep 10, 2023 16:27
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stev posted:Maybe the issue is that we haven't seen enough hyperspace jumps go wrong. Whenever anyone takes a risk they get lucky. We need to see someone more people jump into stars or too close to a planet. Exactly, if desperate skin-of-your-teeth maneuvers always work then that becomes the norm and it breaks the illusion of tension. Remember in Battlestar Galactica when they used a jerry-rigged Cylon nav computer for the Caprica rescue mission? Without that one Raptor materializing into a mountain on the final jump, the danger of the endeavor is entirely theoretical.
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Sep 10, 2023 16:58
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Stegosnaurlax posted:Lothal Weapon Quoting because I didn't feel this got the praise it deserves. Excellent.
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Sep 10, 2023 17:18
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McSpanky posted:Exactly, if desperate skin-of-your-teeth maneuvers always work then that becomes the norm and it breaks the illusion of tension. Remember in Battlestar Galactica when they used a jerry-rigged Cylon nav computer for the Caprica rescue mission? Without that one Raptor materializing into a mountain on the final jump, the danger of the endeavor is entirely theoretical. There's also that Raptor Jumping right beside the flight pod and ripping hull armor clean off a Battlestar like it's tissue paper with the singularity it creates in the process.
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Sep 10, 2023 17:24
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HootTheOwl posted:Why put people in your MC 80 when you can just point them at a star destroyer? They only had those 3 hammerhead frigates in Rogue One, and those still got shredded once the Imperial ships recovered and focus-fired
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Sep 10, 2023 19:40
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ungulateman posted:if holdo's attack was as effective as the cinematography made it look, someone would've invented cruise missiles. what's actually going on is that she's drawing attention via a spectacular kamikaze maneuver that - as bizarre as this sounds because of what's on screen - doesn't do that much damage. After Kylo gets up from hitting his head, he and Hux send all their forces down to Crait and it doesn't seem to have had a meaningful impact on their deployment. Yes, I think that's fair: it does some damage, and the debris does some damage to the escort vessels, but the biggest effect is that none of those ships are likely to be doing very much until they can do a full damage report and check things like systems and hull integrity. There's a fine line between "dented the armor some" and "caused a hairline fracture of integral support structures that will cause the ship to break up under thrust." The Supremacy certainly doesn't blow up or anything like that. It's a delaying tactic; it's just makes one hell of an impression. (Fantastic choice on the sound in that moment, too.) The other factor is that the Supremacy is ludicrously large for a ship, but not nearly as big as a Death Star. The Death Star is 160 km wide, with a volume of over 2.1 million cubic km. The Supremacy isn't a cube, but if it were, it would have a volume of 3,186 cubic km. Ramming the Death Star as part of a hyperspace jump is simply not going to deal meaningful damage, so the station you would want to hit with a hyperjump is just going to shrug the impact off. OTOH, the Supremacy is still a target 60 km wide, and it doesn't look like it maneuvers very well, so hitting it is quite possible. An Imperial-2 Star Destroyer is maybe 1 km wide, or 1/60th the target profile, and that makes a miss much more likely as well as evasive action potentially being much more effective. If you get close enough to ensure a hit, you may not be traveling fast enough to deal much damage to a larger vessel. It's unclear how far a ship travels in normal space before it enters hyperspace; missiles that miss because you were too far away from the target and that don't deal damage because you were too close don't seem like a fantastic option.
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Sep 10, 2023 20:29
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The question of why they don't hyperdrive asteroids into stuff is readily answered with "it obviously isn't a good strategy or they would" The technical answer is only going to be disappointing nonsense
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Sep 10, 2023 20:33
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Escalation. Escalation is always the answer. That's why the Nazis didn't simply gas the D-Day beaches. Every side possesses the technical skill to ram hyperspace asteroids into the other, so there's no strategic advantage in using them. You will be on the receiving end of the same attack. There's more propaganda advantage in not using it yourself and waiting for the other side to escalate to it. That's why the Death Star was a strategic blunder and why the Alliance doesn't reply in kind: the Empire looks worse for no advantage.
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Sep 10, 2023 20:50
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The rebellion couldn't reply in kind if they wanted to for several reasons The Death Star is an engineering project on a preposterous scale, and the super weapon is apparently powered by a vanishingly rare resource Nevermind that terrorism like blowing up a planet is not a useful strategy for a rebellion against that very type of thing
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Sep 10, 2023 20:54
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I don't think the emperor would like hyperdriving asteroids because it isn't a display of strength. When the empire does an orbital bombardment, it's imperial warships destroying your cities, when the death star blows up your planet, it's an imperial built moon of death in your skies. Sheev wants you to know who's in charge while he kills you
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Sep 10, 2023 21:12
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Base Delta Zero.
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Sep 10, 2023 21:48
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Yeah "why they don't do the Holdo maneuver all the time" the one time we saw the Holdo maneuver it didn't really even do anything. Bought them like ten minutes?
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Sep 10, 2023 22:29
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site posted:I don't think the emperor would like hyperdriving asteroids because it isn't a display of strength. When the empire does an orbital bombardment, it's imperial warships destroying your cities, when the death star blows up your planet, it's an imperial built moon of death in your skies. Sheev wants you to know who's in charge while he kills you John Wick of Dogs posted:Yeah "why they don't do the Holdo maneuver all the time" the one time we saw the Holdo maneuver it didn't really even do anything. Bought them like ten minutes? New imperial superweapon pitch: miles long starship specially designed to suicide jump into planet as a hyperspace battering ram. Can’t match the Death Star for absolute destruction, but it’s cheaper, will create jobs, and you’re gonna remember it.
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Sep 10, 2023 22:36
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May it just goes back to the nanodroid discussion, hyperdrives are common but new hyperdrives are rare or hard to make. We see them dismantle all kinds of ships and repurpose the drives. You don't waste a drive because it's better for other things.
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Sep 10, 2023 22:41
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Yeah "why they don't do the Holdo maneuver all the time" the one time we saw the Holdo maneuver it didn't really even do anything. Bought them like ten minutes? We saw it again in RoS which is extremely funny.
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Sep 10, 2023 23:28
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Burning_Monk posted:May it just goes back to the nanodroid discussion, hyperdrives are common but new hyperdrives are rare or hard to make. We see them dismantle all kinds of ships and repurpose the drives. You don't waste a drive because it's better for other things. Consistent with the fact that hyperdrive scarcity is a plot point in Rebels
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Sep 10, 2023 23:28
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skasion posted:New imperial superweapon pitch: miles long starship specially designed to suicide jump into planet as a hyperspace battering ram. Presumably hyperdrives are way too prohibitively expensive to waste on one-shot weapons, which is another reason you can't do the Holdo maneuver in every battle. It's been a while since I've seen TLJ but I think some junior officer comes up to Domhnall Gleeson and asks if he wants to move the fleet out of the way of the cruiser, and Gleeson has his Tarkin moment and thinks Holdo is just running away. They probably could have got out of the way if they had figured out what she was gonna do.
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Sep 11, 2023 00:14
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Individual x-wings have hyperdrives so I guess if you want to punch a small hole in something that's an option. You just have to find an astromech who's up for it.
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Sep 11, 2023 00:20
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Stegosnaurlax posted:Lothal Weapon This too shall not pass into that great knight unacknowledged.
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Sep 11, 2023 01:22
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Does the Death Star have hyperdrive engines as well? I presume it does, because how else would it get to Yavin so quickly, but we don't get a cool scene of it speeding off like we do all the small craft and then the entire Rebel fleet in RotJ
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Sep 11, 2023 02:13
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Aces High posted:Does the Death Star have hyperdrive engines as well? I presume it does, because how else would it get to Yavin so quickly, but we don't get a cool scene of it speeding off like we do all the small craft and then the entire Rebel fleet in RotJ Confirmed. Rogue One has the old girl leaping about like a rotund ballerina with a death laser.
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Sep 11, 2023 02:29
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Aces High posted:Does the Death Star have hyperdrive engines as well? I presume it does, because how else would it get to Yavin so quickly, but we don't get a cool scene of it speeding off like we do all the small craft and then the entire Rebel fleet in RotJ Thinking on it, Jumping the Death Star must be an ordeal and a half to find a clean route anywhere for a whole-rear end artificial moon. Neveind probably pancaking a whole bunch of random ships like bugs on a windscreen along the way without even realizing it.
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Sep 11, 2023 02:53
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Interdictor? I hardly know her!
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Sep 11, 2023 03:10
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Doctor Spaceman posted:We saw it again in RoS which is extremely funny. I'm going to laugh if it's ever revealed that it was pulled off by some Ewoks who stole a shuttle and pulled it off as a fluke
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Sep 11, 2023 03:55
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https://twitter.com/hollywoodhandle/status/1700865934758482266?s=20 I hate to say it but, while I love Chop, he probably would scab, wouldn't he?
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Sep 11, 2023 06:43
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stev posted:Maybe the issue is that we haven't seen enough hyperspace jumps go wrong. Whenever anyone takes a risk they get lucky. We need to see someone more people jump into stars or too close to a planet. piL posted:Would watch a high republic Era buddy jedi series about a gently caress-up knight and a gently caress-up padawan both far too old to be a knight and a padawan relegated to investigating hyperspace transit accidents until drawn into a much larger conspiracy. They did a little something with this in the Dark Horse comics: The Stark Hyperspace War where the titular Iaco Stark, head of a pirate collective, deployed a navcomputer virus that sent two-thirds of a Republic fleet either into planets and stars or scattered them in random pockets throughout the galaxy. It was a fun read.
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Sep 11, 2023 06:45
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:The EU was wild. Yeesh. I just read the entry on Sariss (and the original SW.com article it was based on). I don't know where you get "as a baby" from, but even so, that's some heinous poo poo, dressed up in flowery language.
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Sep 11, 2023 09:53
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Galaga Galaxian posted:https://twitter.com/hollywoodhandle/status/1700865934758482266?s=20 I assumed that's why they had the Muppets in as well despite no new Muppet projects announced - nobody else is available. Also Chop would absolutely scab, and chortle mischievously on his way across the picket line.
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Sep 11, 2023 11:21
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skasion posted:New imperial superweapon pitch: miles long starship specially designed to suicide jump into planet as a hyperspace battering ram. Wasn't that basically the Galaxy Gun? e: misremembered, the Galaxy Gun launched ship-sized missiles through hyperspace but they came back out to deliver their planet-destroying warheads Dave Syndrome posted:Yeesh. I just read the entry on Sariss (and the original SW.com article it was based on). I don't know where you get "as a baby" from, but even so, that's some heinous poo poo, dressed up in flowery language. Curiosity got the better of me... what the gently caress? This is worse than Prince Xizor, living avatar of date rape. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Sep 11, 2023 |
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Sep 11, 2023 12:26
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