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google likes webp because
gently caress google, and gently caress webp
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Nov 8, 2023 19:18
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:also the moment you have a colorspace difference (or a lot of other transforms) the extra bits are useful even if the ultimate output doesn't manage to differentiate between more than 256 levels of a channel yeah. and HDR, as we conceptualize it today, is absolutely not entirely about bit depth — you can certainly have a 24-bit panel that nonetheless has a fairly limited possible gamut. iirc in 2010 you'd be lucky to have full sRGB coverage on a typical screen; back then full adobe RGB coverage would have been more common for pro monitors but still pretty rare also i feel like pretty much any monitor's peak brightness in 2010 wouldn't meet any modern HDR spec but it's possible i'm wrong on that, i don't feel like looking it up
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Nov 8, 2023 19:22
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webp sucks rear end. its underlying codec was intended to rival h.264/AVC and never quite succeeded at doing so. it's worse than any HEVC or AV1 based format in pretty much every way and those are all worse than JPEG XL
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Nov 8, 2023 19:24
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Beeftweeter posted:there weren't really specs for what we call HDR today back then, but that doesn't mean there wasn't support for it in hardware or software. qirex's post is a good example, lmao the iPhone 3G had 18 bits per pixel not 18 bits per color channel you muppet afaict the iPhone X in 2017 was the first iPhone that supported more than 24 bit color, Apple is remarkably silent on this topic. nvidia added HDR to the GTX 900 series in 2014, AMD added it to the RX 400 in 2016, and I think Intel also added it in 2016
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Nov 8, 2023 19:28
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Manzoon posted:Someone smarter than me please tell me why I can just change the file extension of a webp to jpg and it just works. What is being lost if anything in rendering that? you can change the extension and it will work because whatever you're using to view it is reading the file's header instead of its extension to figure out what it is. if you open up a webp (or a jpeg) in a hex editor, you can see this at the beginning of the file. the sequence is the same for every image encoded with either codec, it identifies the format some codecs (like jpeg2000 or HEIC) use the mp4 container though. that has a common header too of course, but there are internal data structures called "atoms" within the container that indicate what the format is. you can extract the image data as a raw bitstream too but depending on what format you're talking about, that might not be readable in (m)any viewer programs
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Nov 8, 2023 19:34
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pseudorandom name posted:lmao the iPhone 3G had 18 bits per pixel not 18 bits per color channel you muppet yeah iphone os used 24-bit color and the display dithered that to 18-bits. so?
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Nov 8, 2023 19:35
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Beeftweeter posted:webp sucks rear end
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Nov 8, 2023 19:38
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high precision color was invented for print 30 years ago, it's super easy to see banding in gradients if you only have 256 levels on a 17 inch wide spread [there were also a lot of tricks with dithering and custom halftones that helped]. hdr on screens is more recent and has just inherited a lot of that logic and terminology but it's confusing because screens and paper don't work the same at all
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Nov 8, 2023 19:45
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i absolutely do not give a poo poo about file formats i never use
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Nov 8, 2023 19:46
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i miss my codec warrior gang tag 
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Nov 8, 2023 19:50
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:entirely related i hate how
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Nov 8, 2023 19:57
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Beeftweeter posted:there weren't really specs for what we call HDR today back then, but that doesn't mean there wasn't support for it in hardware or software. qirex's post is a good example, i think y'all might be talking past each other here cuz i don't think anyone was actually arguing that technology in 2010 had nothing better than 8 bit / 256 color mode
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Nov 8, 2023 20:15
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AlbertFlasher posted:
I get it now, it is clear to me.
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Nov 8, 2023 20:19
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mediaphage posted:i absolutely do not give a poo poo about file formats i never use here is a 16-bit HDR JPEG XL i took lol chromium? here's an AVIF  i will never use webp
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Nov 8, 2023 20:33
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ok but what if you post it on reddit and it gets converted for you
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Nov 8, 2023 20:41
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Eeyo posted:ok but what if you post it on reddit and it gets converted for you well thats similar to webp usage. i will never post on reddit
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Nov 8, 2023 20:43
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you know what i’m going to be the bigger poster here. i’m sorry i implied that you’d post on reddit.
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Nov 8, 2023 20:44
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Beeftweeter posted:here is a 16-bit HDR JPEG XL i took i took a picture of the same area from roughly the same position when i had a business trip there but mine came out much worse, who should i curse for my bad photo skills is it google, i think i'll just curse google
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Nov 8, 2023 20:48
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Shame Boy posted:i took a picture of the same area from roughly the same position when i had a business trip there but mine came out much worse, who should i curse for my bad photo skills just blame those drat canadians burning too many trees.
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Nov 8, 2023 20:50
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Shame Boy posted:i took a picture of the same area from roughly the same position when i had a business trip there but mine came out much worse, who should i curse for my bad photo skills that is a processed version of this stack of exposures: https://archive.org/details/1170158-hdr (not a direct link but i'll still throw in a warning: 39 MB 16-bit PNG). the AVIF is actually smaller than the JXL, but they were both output by lightroom so i didn't have much granularity over the settings anyway there is a lot that can go wrong with taking a photo, so it depends on what you mean by "worse", but it's always safe to curse google. especially if you were using a google pixel phone
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Nov 8, 2023 21:19
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Beeftweeter posted:here is a 16-bit HDR JPEG XL i took neither of these embeds work on chredge. anyway all of these formats are stupid. there is no reason to change away from jpeg and png. oh booo hoo they're marginally larger than this new format. well guess what it's 2024 and we have gigabit internet on our phones and websites are all loading 15 megs of advertising spyware up front anyway. an extra 100 kb across all the image elements on the site is literally meaningless
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Nov 8, 2023 21:58
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two goddamn pages of file format whining
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Nov 8, 2023 21:59
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nudgenudgetilt posted:two goddamn pages of file format whining yospos bicth
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Nov 8, 2023 22:24
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Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:yospos bicth
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Nov 8, 2023 22:34
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art needs at least 12 bits per channel.
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Nov 8, 2023 22:34
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Sagebrush posted:neither of these embeds work on chredge. nope JPEG is an extremely limited format that should have died in 2000 when its designated replacement arrived. PNG is still ok but there are better alternatives today, although webp is not one of them overall i think some (HEIC, AVIF, JXL) of the new formats are good. like i literally can't encode the picture i posted in JPEG, it just doesn't have the required dynamic range. it's a deceptively complex image because of the way i processed it: the expanded dynamic range adds to a sense that you're viewing the scene as it appeared, in a way that isn't possible in SDR. the individual exposures that i merged to create it would be either too dark or too bright, and a tonemapped SDR conversion looks like, well, a tonemapped conversion. in comparison most people would not know that they are looking at a HDR image, yet it's obvious if you know what to look for (mainly, detail in shadowed or bright areas). of course, the unprocessed PNG i posted has all of those details, but they need to be revealed with some editing. that wouldn't be possible if i had saved it as a JPEG instead, they'd be gone. if you want to see what it would look like unprocessed, here's archive.org's thumbnail of the PNG:  not that you can make much out from a tiny, poorly compressed thumbnail but you should at least be able to tell that the wood towards the fore is basically dark. on the full 39 MB image, you can't make out much detail there. that's very obviously not so for the HDR examples i posted and, as an immediately identifiable difference, makes it a good test. there's less obvious but abundant detail in the buildings surrounding the WTC that would get lost too but anyway to get back to webp being a dumb piece of poo poo format: it isn't much more capable than the original version of JPEG beyond being able to do RGBA, and it's actually worse than JPEG if you don't — webp is otherwise limited to yuv420, and even JPEG can do yuv444. and any difference in compression ratio is negligible. those shortcomings don't apply for the HEVC-based formats, AVIF or JPEG XL, and if your browser wasn't a piece of poo poo you probably wouldn't even know i had used them tl;dr: hdr rules webp drools
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Nov 8, 2023 22:40
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Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:yospos bicth
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Nov 8, 2023 22:41
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16 million colors ought to be enough for anybody
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Nov 8, 2023 23:00
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Las Vegas Sphere reports $98.4 million loss; CFO quits
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Nov 8, 2023 23:31
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Are they still paying off a loan they took out to build it or something or is it just that expensive to operate?
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Nov 8, 2023 23:37
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the las vegas grand prix had to take out a whole grandstand because they tried charging too much for it so nobody bought tickets. it's going to be a shitshow financially and probably a bad race that will be on at 7am on sunday for most of europe
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Nov 8, 2023 23:45
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wait, is it THAT james dolan? lmao
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Nov 8, 2023 23:45
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nudgenudgetilt posted:two goddamn pages of file format whining Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:yospos bicth
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Nov 8, 2023 23:54
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instagram is asking thirteen euros for its new eu ad free experience at that price, no one is going to buy it, which i suppose is the point
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Nov 9, 2023 00:04
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quote:The New York Post reported Tuesday that Ranji suddenly quit after a bout of yelling and screaming from CEO James Dolan. lmao i hope this james guy eats poo poo and ends up bankrupt
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Nov 9, 2023 01:17
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Eeyo posted:lmao i hope this james guy eats poo poo and ends up bankrupt monitor
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Nov 9, 2023 01:21
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lol the mystery ai pin is as dumb as we all expectedquote:What they show is that Humane, the company noisily promoting a world after smartphones, is about to launch what amounts to a $699 wearable smartphone without a screen that has a $24-a-month subscription fee and runs on a Humane-branded version of T-Mobile’s network with access to AI models from Microsoft and OpenAI.
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Nov 9, 2023 01:23
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holy poo poo that's dumb *turns monitor on* that too
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Nov 9, 2023 01:25
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qirex posted:the las vegas grand prix had to take out a whole grandstand because they tried charging too much for it so nobody bought tickets. it's going to be a shitshow financially and probably a bad race that will be on at 7am on sunday for most of europe all the work that they are doing for this made driving around vegas even more of a shitshow than it normally is anyway how could U2 not bring in the money they needed to pay off the sphere
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Nov 9, 2023 01:26
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well i guess humane is about as humane as openai is open
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Nov 9, 2023 01:27
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