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YerDa Zabam posted:Ah, your mention of host managed smr jogged my memory about a thing about smr, in the enterprise setting, from wd. So everyone(?) added them, and then WDC and Seagate proceeded to launch drive-managed SMR drives to everyone but hyperscalers.
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Nov 24, 2023 11:53
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Has anyone come across any Black Friday deals for HDDs yet? I'll probably post this again when everyone wakes up from their food coma.
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Nov 24, 2023 12:57
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eightysixed posted:Has anyone come across any Black Friday deals for HDDs yet? UK goon here, so I'd struggle to get comatose on these noodles. We don't have bestbuy, but I remember this deal from pure jealousy, two hundo, drat... https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-easystore-18tb-external-usb-3-0-hard-drive-black/6427995.p?skuId=6427995 **out of stock atm** If I look up amazon.com it gives me prices in GBP, so gently caress knows. Doubt it could be much cheaper, though I may be wrong. As far as UK goes, they are doing 18TB Easystore for £264 which is fine I guess, but you can get 18TB X18s for a tenner more and not have to gently caress about shucking I'm still very happy with my refurb 10TB He drives for £60. I found some old errors in the SMART logs in one of them and the guy is sending a replacement so I don't have to be unprotected while waiting to gently caress about with returning it. Better service than most "real" retailers. YerDa Zabam fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Nov 24, 2023 |
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Nov 24, 2023 13:20
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eightysixed posted:Has anyone come across any Black Friday deals for HDDs yet? Keep an eye on https://shucks.top/ since it seems to auto-update. It probably won't catch any weird cash back deals and the like but for just prices there's currently six current sales listed as decent now. 14 TB Easystore at BB for $199.99 16TB Easystore at BB for $209.99 20TB Easystore at BB for $284.99 22TB Easystore at BB for $364.99 16TB Elements at amazon and ebay (newegg) for $209.99 18TB Elements on ebay (newegg) for $229.99
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Nov 24, 2023 14:16
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The Costco 14TB for $150 was the one I snagged
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Nov 24, 2023 14:36
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Sub Rosa posted:The Costco 14TB for $150 was the one I snagged This is the link for everyone else. https://www.costco.com/seagate-14tb-expansion-desktop-hard-drive.product.4000203297.html
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Nov 24, 2023 14:55
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Seagate Exos X20 ST20000NM007D 20TB for $270 on Newegg: https://www.newegg.com/seagate-exos-x20-st20000nm007d-20tb/p/N82E16822185011 e: 1 per customer only, drat
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Nov 24, 2023 19:54
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Kibner posted:Seagate Exos X20 ST20000NM007D 20TB for $270 on Newegg: https://www.newegg.com/seagate-exos-x20-st20000nm007d-20tb/p/N82E16822185011 Just what I was looking for. Thanks! Get to start that unraid migration sooner than later.
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Nov 24, 2023 20:14
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Combat Pretzel posted:If the drive is actually air tight and Helium molecules diffuse out of it due to quantum tunneling or whatever bullshit, shouldn't it just drop the inside pressure and maintain the low drag environment? Yea. Air can't get in, and the helium is lost to the atmosphere. Helium drives gradually equilibrate to run at a slight vacuum.
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Nov 24, 2023 21:07
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Not a hard drive expert but from my understanding of low pressure gas dynamics I suspect what happens in those drives is the Helium diffuses out of the drive faster than Oxygen and Nitrogen (larger molecules) diffuse in. But air will diffuse into the drive over time, it just might be so slow as to be negligible over the expected lifespan of the drive anyway.
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Nov 24, 2023 21:35
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Hows the Synology 923+ for a low-maintence plex / plexamp / ebook setup? I get that it doesn't have hardware transcoding but there would probably only be like a few users (mostly on LAN but occasionally having distance watches with a couple of friends)?
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Nov 24, 2023 23:05
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Potential fix for the BRT issue? Reads like it. https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/15571 https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/15566 Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Nov 25, 2023 |
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Nov 25, 2023 16:38
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Combat Pretzel posted:Potential fix for the BRT issue? Reads like it. While some OIDs like dmu_offset_next_sync and zfs_bclone_enabled being set to 0 makes it less likely to happen, the actual root-cause appears to be a race condition. It'd be great if GitHubs testing framework wasn't so damned limited, because KCSAN (a Kernel Concurrency SANitizer) is implemented in FreeBSD, and that's essentially designed to find such race conditions. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Nov 25, 2023 |
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Nov 25, 2023 19:11
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Home server assembled. Tomorrow is software day. Plan on starting with TrueNAS Scale and then throw up some containers for Plex, Samba, and LANCache to start. Other plans will come later.  
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Nov 25, 2023 22:17
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Kibner posted:Home server assembled. Tomorrow is software day. Plan on starting with TrueNAS Scale and then throw up some containers for Plex, Samba, and LANCache to start. Other plans will come later.
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Nov 26, 2023 04:24
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:What chassis is this? It doesn't look like the CS382 that you mentioned earlier. Looks like a Silverstone FT02 https://www.silverstonetek.com/en/product/info/accessories/FT02/
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Nov 26, 2023 04:25
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MixMasterMalaria posted:Hows the Synology 923+ for a low-maintence plex / plexamp / ebook setup? I get that it doesn't have hardware transcoding but there would probably only be like a few users (mostly on LAN but occasionally having distance watches with a couple of friends)? I've had a DS218+ for like 5 years now and it's been perfectly needs-suiting as a plex server (including plexamp but I use roon running off my desktop these days). Haven't really shared it with anyone but I've used it remotely just fine. Transcoding mostly worked but could be iffy at times, these days I have an apple tv so don't really need to worry about it.
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Nov 26, 2023 04:44
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Wifi Toilet posted:Looks like a Silverstone FT02 Correct. I already had the FT02 and motherboard from a previous build that I just upgraded from. If I wanted to use the CS382, I would have had to buy that case, a new motherboard, probably a new cooler, and possibly new fans. Was wanting to reuse as much as I could. e: Of note, my version of the FT02 has solid panels on both sides, and I upgraded the 180mm fans to PWM ones years ago as well as replaced the foam lining with newer stuff from Silverstone. The exhaust is a Phanteks T30. I also have the front/top USB panel upgraded to usb-c and usb 3.2. I had used this case for my main machine for 11 years so I had updated it a bit at a time when upgrading the components within over that time. Kibner fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 05:10
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Kibner posted:Correct. I already had the FT02 and motherboard from a previous build that I just upgraded from. If I wanted to use the CS382, I would have had to buy that case, a new motherboard, probably a new cooler, and possibly new fans. Was wanting to reuse as much as I could.
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Nov 26, 2023 05:14
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Oh yeah, that's on me - I thought you said you'd bought the CS382, but obviously that's not the case. No worries. I was considering buying the CS382 if I wasn't able to find a way to get the drive bays to fit in the FT02, so that may have been the source of confusion.
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Nov 26, 2023 05:16
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Got TrueNAS Scale up and running! Got my first pool configured and setup with SMB sharing. Having trouble getting email notifications working, but I think that is just an issue with Gmail. Will try again later. Installed Plex, but that isn't working, yet, either. Will troubleshoot after lunch. I also have a long SMART test running on my drives to make sure they are good. And scheduled some daily short tests and monthly long tests while I was at it.
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Nov 26, 2023 18:38
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What is the consensus around M-Disc? Is it a reasonable 10-20 year shelf stable archival backup for docs and pictures in case of a complete NAS hardware failure? I've got glacier backing things up, but I can't say I've actually tested the restore procedure and I'm wary of what is actually getting backed up with how cheap my monthly bill is.
Catatron Prime fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 19:00
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Catatron Prime posted:What is the consensus around M-Disc? Is it a reasonable 10-20 year shelf stable archival backup for docs and pictures in case of a complete NAS hardware failure? I've got glacier backing things up, but I can't say I've actually tested the restore procedure and I'm wary of what is actually getting backed up with how cheap my money bill is. I don't think it's actually existed long enough for someone to test the longevity claims, but I'd get some if I wanted to keep some stuff for a long time. Copying my documents directory from machine to machine has been fine since... 1998 apparently, but it's not really the best way to go about these things.
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Nov 26, 2023 19:08
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Are long SMART tests necessary and, if so, is running it once a month fine? They take 29 hours on my drives and that seems excessive to do if not needed. I'm also running a monthly ZFS scrubbing and daily short SMART tests on days that the other things aren't running (since they take like 2 minutes or less).
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Nov 27, 2023 00:52
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My understanding is that the long test scans the entire disk, so it seems like overkill if you aren't experiencing any issues and somewhat redundant with ZFS scrubs. I run weekly short tests (which may also be redundant since the drives are always running, but like you say costs nothing) and monthly scrubs.
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Nov 27, 2023 03:14
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What's the math like on all-SSD NASes right now? At this moment there's a couple of 4TB SSDs available for sale for under $140, both M.2 PCIe and SATA options are at that price point. That's $35/TB, vs about $13.5/TB that the 20TB Seagate X20 dipped to over the weekend, at $270 for 20TB. One more halving of flash costs and flash is competitive with HDDs. For a home NAS setup, there's a couple other issues that I see, though. You can do a bunch of M.2 disks via a PCIe switch, but cooling them could be weird. You can do a bunch of SATA SSDs, but I don't know what cases have a ton of 2.5" slots, and you'd need more SATA ports / controllers too because each one tops out at around 4TB right now vs 20TB HDD. To do napkin math on a pretty big system, let's say 8x20TB with 2 parity disks, you'd need 40 4TB SSDs to hit that. That means more than 2 full 16-port HBAs, which gets unwieldy, and you're more likely to experience a disk failure if you have that many disks. I'd think that you'd want to stay away from striped RAID, as RAID 5 and 6, or Z1 and Z2 create a lot of write amplification. Something like Unraid could work, if you really wanted to pinch pennies I bet you could even get away with QLC data drives and higher endurance TLC parity drives in Unraid, but that's probably more effort than it's worth. Thoughts? Or will falling flash prices bring us 16TB and bigger consumer SSDs soon anyway?
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Nov 27, 2023 04:40
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Catatron Prime posted:What is the consensus around M-Disc? Is it a reasonable 10-20 year shelf stable archival backup for docs and pictures in case of a complete NAS hardware failure? I've got glacier backing things up, but I can't say I've actually tested the restore procedure and I'm wary of what is actually getting backed up with how cheap my monthly bill is. I'd just test your recovery instead of investing into a whole new technology. If you have a good reason to keep stuff local then mdisk is probably fine but... Off-site cloud backups solve a couple problems at once.
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Nov 27, 2023 04:56
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Catatron Prime posted:What is the consensus around M-Disc? Is it a reasonable 10-20 year shelf stable archival backup for docs and pictures in case of a complete NAS hardware failure? I've got glacier backing things up, but I can't say I've actually tested the restore procedure and I'm wary of what is actually getting backed up with how cheap my monthly bill is. Regular burned DVDs seem to generally be capable of 10 years, so I would expect M-Disc to do a lot more. I think the claims are reasonable enough and they're not that expensive so I got a 5-pack of the Blu-Ray discs and used one for my wedding photos. Hasn't been long enough to draw any conclusions yet though. Twerk from Home posted:What's the math like on all-SSD NASes right now? At this moment there's a couple of 4TB SSDs available for sale for under $140, both M.2 PCIe and SATA options are at that price point. That's $35/TB, vs about $13.5/TB that the 20TB Seagate X20 dipped to over the weekend, at $270 for 20TB. One more halving of flash costs and flash is competitive with HDDs. For a home NAS setup, there's a couple other issues that I see, though. It's pretty easy to get a bunch of 2.5" bays if you can find an old full tower with a lot of 5.25" bays, as they convert over 4:1 with aftermarket brackets. Even the 2:1 you get from 3.5" bays might be good enough if you really get something big like a Define XL. You could also look for a used 2U server if you can tolerate noise or find an appropriate chassis that isn't too loud, since the form factor fits 24x2.5" pretty well. The bit about write amplification is a good point but I wonder how big of a deal it is with a normal home user workload. None of the SSDs I have are remotely close to write exhaustion, but none of them are NAS drives either. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 05:20
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Twerk from Home posted:What's the math like on all-SSD NASes right now? At this moment there's a couple of 4TB SSDs available for sale for under $140, both M.2 PCIe and SATA options are at that price point. That's $35/TB, vs about $13.5/TB that the 20TB Seagate X20 dipped to over the weekend, at $270 for 20TB. One more halving of flash costs and flash is competitive with HDDs. For a home NAS setup, there's a couple other issues that I see, though. Cases/fitting shouldn't be an issue as you get 2x2.5 to 3.5 adapters for a next to nothing. As for SATA SSDs there 8TB ones now too, in fact for a while they were the best TB per £ here, though I'm not sure if that's still the same as the prices have crept up again. That's the QVO ones though, TLC ones will most likely always be more expensive. The 8TB NVMe ones are monocle-popping expensive though. There are lots of well priced ex-enterprise U.2 NVMe drives in 2.5" form available. 8TB of ultra fast, super robust storage is tempting at under £300 but they use a lot of power relatively. That's is why I was looking at all this myself, namely how little electricity some SSDs use compared to spinning disks, particularly 7200 rpm and SAS ones. I was wondering at what point the extra price of the drive is balanced out by the electricity saving. My electric is £0.33 per unit at the moment, gently caress me. I can't remember the (bad) maths, but the prices would still have a ways to go before it was actually a saving, at least over a realistic time span. That was comparing SSDs that were at an all time low pricing, with the more expensive, brand new HDDs as well. Things like Iron Wolf Pros, or the WD equivalent. Using shucked drives skewed it much farther of course. I ended up getting some £60 10TB refurbs and I just pray to Allah for cheaper lekky. Considering I don't really have anything vital on it I don't worry about used drives personally. There are quite a few "open box" or even unopened/unused drives at near to used prices too. It takes a fair bit of eBay-foo though, as digging through all this is second only to finding specific sticks of RAM in the brain gently caress realm. I've got a few older enterprise SSDs, mirrored, for caches. Mainly for the power loss failure protection. Even though in the UK the electric supply is pretty good, well so far, in this failing state anyway. The high endurance is a nice insurance of sorts too with those. Dunno if anyone has seen the NVMe NAS that Unraid has some sort of colab with? It just seems like a different take of the Asustor one. Even though I've got nothing to actually base it on, I feel that the CPU in those (N5105) is just too low performing for 6 SSDs. I guess that for the price it'd make a good media box, and it's interesting that it has an Unraid licence with it. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lincstation-world-s-1st-unraid-6-bay-all-ssd-nas#/ YerDa Zabam fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 08:17
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On a related note, I finally got the last piece of a puzzle at work, in the form of some Startech U.3 to PCIe cards: I think these will do fine for our purposes.   (The purposes are basically "scratch disks for DNA sequencing data".) Computer viking fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 15:58
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My old portable external backup drive is dying and that's a good reason to finally get the NAS I've been thinking about for a while. I don't have experience here, but I also don't need anything fancy. I just need a box on my network with a lot of space, probably in RAID 1 since I'm sick of urgently swapping to a new drive when an old one decides to start dying. So, I think I'll buy a Synology 2 Bay DiskStation DS223j and two identical drives for it. I haven't picked drives yet, but I'll get at least 10TB from a company I recognize like Seagate or WD. Anything wrong with this plan? Again, I am trying to keep this simple. I have no special needs. EDIT: I'm poking around for good deals on HDDs and I found Seagate Exos x12 12TB drives @ just $99 for 12TB. Of course, they're "renewed", not new. $99 for 12TB is a great price, but would I be crazy to get a renewed drive for a backup system? Park of me is thinking "if the thing is in a RAID1 (or maybe RAID5 if I get a bigger box) it'll be ok". But still, renewed drives for a NAS? Someone talk me out of this. Chimp_On_Stilts fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Nov 28, 2023 |
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Nov 28, 2023 06:04
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Chimp_On_Stilts posted:My old portable external backup drive is dying and that's a good reason to finally get the NAS I've been thinking about for a while. I'm a big fan of Synology, been running one for a while now. They have a Hybrid Raid setup (that will essentially be Raid 1 on a two bay, but it means you don't really need to worry about configuration/etc). You're definitely getting an underpowered appliance rather than a full computer that happens to have a mess of disks, but I've been quite happy with my Synology - it does everything I want it to. Synology has the whole alphabet soup mess of models, but basically the DS223J is the entry level version. If you have any interest in using your NAS for anything else such as :files: etc then the DS223 might be worth springing for, but otherwise it's probably perfectly fine to stick with the J model. Edit: Chimp_On_Stilts posted:
I, personally, would not touch 'renewed' drives with a ten foot pole, especially for something I want to work. Sure, RAID buys you some peace of mind on drive failures, but that prices seems suspiciously good. Storage ain't cheap, you're going to need to drop some dough. But it's up to you ultimately, so your call. If you had a 4-bay or something like that it might be more reasonable to buy cheap crappy drives and just burn through them. Last note, I would definitely recommend getting a bit more space than you need - nothing worse than realizing you just need 1-2 TB more and having to drop cash all over again. Falcon2001 fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Nov 28, 2023 |
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Nov 28, 2023 06:41
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Falcon2001 posted:I'm a big fan of Synology, been running one for a while now. They have a Hybrid Raid setup (that will essentially be Raid 1 on a two bay, but it means you don't really need to worry about configuration/etc). You're definitely getting an underpowered appliance rather than a full computer that happens to have a mess of disks, but I've been quite happy with my Synology - it does everything I want it to. You make good points. I'll just shell out for new drives, I'm fortunate that I can afford it. No reason to cheap out when the whole drat reason I'm doing this is I'm sick of my storage drives failing (this is the second time in ~10 years which isn't a ton, but it's still annoying). You're right about capacity too. I think I'll read a bit more about Synology and maybe get a 4 bay so I can get a lot of storage. For home use, would y'all recommend RAID 1? RAID 5? No RAID at all? Might impact how many drive bays I get.
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Nov 28, 2023 06:58
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I’m a fan of Unraid since this thread sold me on it 8ish months ago. The flexibility to expand later was a big selling point for me but I’ve also enjoyed setup and how many guides etc there are for everything online. For now it’s just hosting media and backing up the other computers in the house but at some point I’ll set up a doorbell camera on it.
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Nov 28, 2023 07:53
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Falcon2001 posted:I, personally, would not touch 'renewed' drives with a ten foot pole, especially for something I want to work. Sure, RAID buys you some peace of mind on drive failures, but that prices seems suspiciously good. Storage ain't cheap, you're going to need to drop some dough. But it's up to you ultimately, so your call. If you had a 4-bay or something like that it might be more reasonable to buy cheap crappy drives and just burn through them. Not saying you're wrong, it's entirely possible that the failure rate is higher on renewed drives - but I think the fact that you (and many people) don't trust them could by itself explain the price being "suspiciously good". The companies selling these drives have to price them at a level that will sell, and so much of the potential market won't really consider anything but new drives.
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Nov 28, 2023 10:14
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Computer viking posted:On a related note, I finally got the last piece of a puzzle at work, in the form of some Startech U.3 to PCIe cards: Falcon2001 posted:I'm a big fan of Synology, been running one for a while now. evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Nov 28, 2023 |
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Nov 28, 2023 12:06
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I recently left unraid for synology. I was pushed over the edge by the extremely dumb unraid licensing system deciding that my flash drive GUID was blacklisted one day (I think they updated the blacklist after the fact and mine got caught in it). This resulted in me emailing them for a new key, waiting for it and then finding it didn’t work because I moved servers earlier in the year and that meant I had already exceeded my license transfers for the year. Then I had to email them again to have them bump my license transfer limit up so I could use the new flash drive I had to buy so that I could use the software I paid for after my old drive got blacklisted out of the blue. It’s super frustrating to pay for a product and then be treated at every step like I’m trying to steal it synology on the other hand has been very straightforward and requires next to no janitoring. I’m happy so far.
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Nov 28, 2023 13:55
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Synology is great. But the more you want to tinker with it, the more you will be annoyed by road blocks with the standard apps. The Docker GUI lacks many options for instance. And their Tailscale app is out of date. But yeah, mostly really happy with my system
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Nov 28, 2023 14:11
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Falcon2001 posted:You're definitely getting an underpowered appliance rather than a full computer that happens to have a mess of disks, but I've been quite happy with my Synology - it does everything I want it to.
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Nov 28, 2023 14:15
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I've been using a DS1817+ since 2018 and while I quickly outgrew running any kind of service from it, moving instead to an Optiplex running Linux+Docker+my local services, it's been great as a NAS. Only lately as I've been through a few hard drive upgrades and have enough usable drives to fill another 8 bay NAS have I really been thinking hard about grabbing a NetApp Disk Shelf or something. Reading Windows 98s saga with having to get an HBA card reflashed was cautionary though and while that's still the route I want to go ultimately, it may not be just yet.
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Nov 28, 2023 14:38
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