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BrigadierSensible posted:This made me think. Is there an American TV/movie character reminiscent of Basil Fawlty? A fair few Frasier episodes pretty much have the same deal of escalating farce ending with completely absurd behaviour before the inevitable collapse. One episode even starts out in the aftermath of one.
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Nov 28, 2023 06:17
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Fifty Farts posted:Like, an irredeemable jackass protagonist who gets their comeuppance because they can't not be a terrible person? The Seinfeld gang and the Always Sunny in Philadelphia gang come to mind. I'm sure there are more examples out there. I've always felt the Seinfeld finale missed the point that while the main characters were terrible weirdos, so was everyone else in that show.
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Nov 28, 2023 06:58
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Breetai posted:I kinda wonder what would have happened if instead of trying to catch up to Marvel by copying them and creating yet another sprawling cinematic universe, DC had just focused on releasing easy-to-follow, well-scripted standalone movies or traditional sequels with (from a superhero movie perspective) relatively simple stakes. I really liked the second Suicide Squad movie, Yeah, the second Suicide Squad movie was an absolute ton of fun. I was more interested in watching the characters interact than I was the action scenes.
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Nov 28, 2023 09:50
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oldpainless posted:In america we call it 9/11 Fall-ty towers
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Nov 28, 2023 09:53
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Keromaru5 posted:All this is also, I think, why I've had more fun the last few years watching various Ultraman series than the MCU. They can get pretty goofy, because they still remember they're primarily for kids, but they never give away that they think any of this is silly. Why Snakes on a Plane didn't work. You can't cold-bloodedly set out to make a campy B-movie. They only ever work when their absolutely sincere.
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Nov 28, 2023 09:54
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Ghost Leviathan posted:A fair few Frasier episodes pretty much have the same deal of escalating farce ending with completely absurd behaviour before the inevitable collapse. One episode even starts out in the aftermath of one. Frasier is probably the closest, for sure. For a proper Fawlty you have to have the character giving off the self righteous energy that he's BETTER than the situation he finds himself in, whilst also secretly knowing he deserves every second of it.
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Nov 28, 2023 10:39
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Fil5000 posted:Frasier is probably the closest, for sure. For a proper Fawlty you have to have the character giving off the self righteous energy that he's BETTER than the situation he finds himself in, whilst also secretly knowing he deserves every second of it. ...really not including the second part but somehow also came to mind Invader Zim.
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Nov 28, 2023 10:41
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Ghost Leviathan posted:...really not including the second part but somehow also came to mind Invader Zim. I think the thing with most of the American takes on the concept is the self loathing just isn't there. The outrage at the situation, sure, it's very American to be angry you're not getting what you think you deserve, but the self loathing feels very much part English classism. There's a reason the first episode of Fawlty Towers is the one where a Lord comes to stay.
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Nov 28, 2023 10:56
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speaking of English stuff, in Downton Abbey, why the hell does the oldest daughter hate the middle one so much? Both of them seem to love their youngest sister but the two of them are about a word away from ripping each other's throats out. Is it just because the oldest is the clear favorite of pretty much everyone, even the servants? poo poo, I don't even think the middle daughter has a personal servant unlike the oldest.
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Nov 28, 2023 14:35
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Elissimpark posted:I've always felt the Seinfeld finale missed the point that while the main characters were terrible weirdos, so was everyone else in that show. True, but the other weirdos know to stay in their element. Notice how the worst things happen to Seinfeld and crew when they leave NYC? When Kramer went to LA, he was arrested for suspicion of being a serial killer. None of Jerry and Elaine's trips to Florida EVER went well for them. If Newman ever DID get that coveted Hawaii postal route, he'd get fired inside of a week. And I can't genuinely think of a time George left the greater NY area until the finale... I guess a couple of times he went upstate (Bubble Boy and Susan's cabin) and look how THAT turned out!
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Nov 28, 2023 15:27
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Why Snakes on a Plane didn't work. Same with Samurai Cop 2. The first one is amazing simply because everyone is playing it straight even though it's an artistic crime against humanity. The sequel overplayed its very first hand by casting Tommy Wiseau in it, telling you what to expect before it was even made.
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Nov 28, 2023 15:48
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Fil5000 posted:I think the thing with most of the American takes on the concept is the self loathing just isn't there. The outrage at the situation, sure, it's very American to be angry you're not getting what you think you deserve, but the self loathing feels very much part English classism. There's a reason the first episode of Fawlty Towers is the one where a Lord comes to stay. I was gonna say, yeah, there's definitely something to the English psychology/worldview that's rarely seen in American takes. You see plenty of the hilarious self-sabotaging egotistical rear end in a top hat protagonist, and often done well, but rarely with the slight glimmer of self-awareness.
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Nov 28, 2023 16:00
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I'm not sure if self-awareness is the term. I think it's more to do with 1970s Britain having a more rigid hierarchy of class than America, so Basil can simultaneously be a pompous rear end in a top hat while also knowing that regardless of his opinion of himself he is factually outranked by the elite clientele he tries to woo. American takes on that sort of character aren't going to have the same simpering obsequiousness to their betters; there might be the occasional episode where they're trying to suck up to someone in particular, which will inevitably be used to contrast with their usual attitude and behavior, but it's not going to be an ingrained character trait.
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Nov 28, 2023 17:28
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the holy poopacy posted:I'm not sure if self-awareness is the term. I think it's more to do with 1970s Britain having a more rigid hierarchy of class than America, so Basil can simultaneously be a pompous rear end in a top hat while also knowing that regardless of his opinion of himself he is factually outranked by the elite clientele he tries to woo. American takes on that sort of character aren't going to have the same simpering obsequiousness to their betters; there might be the occasional episode where they're trying to suck up to someone in particular, which will inevitably be used to contrast with their usual attitude and behavior, but it's not going to be an ingrained character trait. I remember Craig Charles talking about one of the many reasons he felt the American Red Dwarf remake just didn't work- the U.S. has got a fuckload of societal problems, but we lack that same kind of hopeless classism that makes for the comedy of Rimmer desperately wanting to be one of the upper-crust posh fuckheads but instead having to throw his lot in with super-schlub Lister. Cheers is probably the show that comes the closest to touching on this, but it still sometimes depicts class mobility in a way that's not common in older British shows.
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Nov 28, 2023 19:23
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Baba Yaga Fanboy posted:I remember Craig Charles talking about one of the many reasons he felt the American Red Dwarf remake just didn't work- the U.S. has got a fuckload of societal problems, but we lack that same kind of hopeless classism that makes for the comedy of Rimmer desperately wanting to be one of the upper-crust posh fuckheads but instead having to throw his lot in with super-schlub Lister. I dunno, I think Cheers HAS some of that with Diane but then she leaves. Frasier has his moments but not really until he gets his own show (and, again, he's the class he desires to be and doesn't think anyone's better than him in the way Basil does)
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Nov 28, 2023 19:41
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What about Jeff Winger in Community? First season, for sure; but he had some of those traits all the way to the end. But yeah, nowhere near to the level as Basil.
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Nov 28, 2023 19:51
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Frasier does have a chip on his shoulder from his dad but that doesn't really come out until his show.
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Nov 28, 2023 20:36
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Ommin posted:What about Jeff Winger in Community? First season, for sure; but he had some of those traits all the way to the end. But yeah, nowhere near to the level as Basil. Absolutely Jeff when he's still trying to be a lawyer. Once you hit season 5 and he's failed at it and transitions into teaching and functional alcoholism he's a much sadder figure than even Basil was. Plus unlike Basil Jeff frequently IS the smartest guy in the room.
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Nov 28, 2023 20:39
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Why Snakes on a Plane didn't work. Snakes on a Plane absolutely works to a certain audience. A huge audience. There are still people who think Snakes on a Plane is the pinnacle of ironic absurd comedy, and a lot of them haven't even seen it. It's the same people who think Sharknado is "the greatest bad movie ever." I tried making a bad movie club in my town and Birdemic and Sharknado were the only things anyone voted for :|
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Nov 28, 2023 20:42
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credburn posted:Snakes on a Plane absolutely works to a certain audience. A huge audience. There are still people who think Snakes on a Plane is the pinnacle of ironic absurd comedy, and a lot of them haven't even seen it. It's the same people who think Sharknado is "the greatest bad movie ever." Only because they've never heard of Neil Breen. The ending of Fateful Findings is funnier than the entire run time of both Birdemic and Sharknado
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Nov 28, 2023 20:47
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Cowslips Warren posted:speaking of English stuff, in Downton Abbey, why the hell does the oldest daughter hate the middle one so much? Both of them seem to love their youngest sister but the two of them are about a word away from ripping each other's throats out. Is it just because the oldest is the clear favorite of pretty much everyone, even the servants? poo poo, I don't even think the middle daughter has a personal servant unlike the oldest. Only thing I remember about this show from overhearing my wife watch it was how despicable every single character was
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Nov 28, 2023 22:02
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Mauser posted:Only thing I remember about this show from overhearing my wife watch it was how despicable every single character was It's one of those shows that pretty much hammers down the point that the people that live above the stairs pretty much deserve to be rich, and their servants deserve to not be rich and should be honored to just take care of them. There are a few rare moments where the rich wealthy aristocracy goes, Oh wow, we do have it pretty good, but that pretty much ends after a few minutes. During the show itself, both the eldest and middle daughter do lots of horrible things to each other, but the show starts with them despising each other and I always wondered if there was some backstory and some book or some prequel series that it never got explored because I never had any sisters, but my brother and I while we don't get along, it was never to this degree, until he got into drugs and robbing us for more drug money. I do remember talking to someone who watched the show and said that the sisters all have a rivalry because each of them wants to marry better than the others, and that's one of the reasons the eldest sister is only really friendly to her servant girl, because the servant girl is no threat and lives and dies in her shadow and can't ever do anything to ruin her without ruining herself and the process.
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Nov 28, 2023 22:52
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the holy poopacy posted:I'm not sure if self-awareness is the term. I think it's more to do with 1970s Britain having a more rigid hierarchy of class than America, so Basil can simultaneously be a pompous rear end in a top hat while also knowing that regardless of his opinion of himself he is factually outranked by the elite clientele he tries to woo. American takes on that sort of character aren't going to have the same simpering obsequiousness to their betters; there might be the occasional episode where they're trying to suck up to someone in particular, which will inevitably be used to contrast with their usual attitude and behavior, but it's not going to be an ingrained character trait. Huh, then Zim does qualify with his fanatical devotion to the Tallest, kinda.
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Nov 28, 2023 23:06
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Why Snakes on a Plane didn't work. How would you rate Piranha (2010)?
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Nov 29, 2023 03:18
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Breetai posted:How would you rate Piranha (2010)? It's unrated for a reason. Several reasons, really. Two, to be exact.
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Nov 29, 2023 10:56
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:For a moment I thought I had found the context for this stray post in the CineD Marvel thread, made apropos of absolutely nothing What pisses me off a out Shang-Chi is how they teased they were gonna do something really cool with the action and then they don't. The flashback fight at the start is a pretty cool wuxia fight, then we get the bus scene which is a very "western" superhero brawly fight. Then when Shang-Chi is training with his mum she does that iconic wire-fu slow jump, and I got all excited that they were going to mash up all these different movie action styles in a cool way that reflects Shang-Chis conflicting relationship with his Asian and American identities. But no, we get the same bollocks we always do, faceless hordes of generic CGI gribblies.
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Nov 29, 2023 12:46
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The kaiju*, though *a word which is actually derived from Middle Chinese for "strange/fantastic beast" apparently stringless has a new favorite as of 12:58 on Nov 29, 2023 |
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Nov 29, 2023 12:54
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Baba Yaga Fanboy posted:I remember Craig Charles talking about one of the many reasons he felt the American Red Dwarf remake just didn't work- the U.S. has got a fuckload of societal problems, but we lack that same kind of hopeless classism that makes for the comedy of Rimmer desperately wanting to be one of the upper-crust posh fuckheads but instead having to throw his lot in with super-schlub Lister. Dad's Army is a good example. The central dynamic is between the fussy, middle-class Captain Mainwaring and the laid back upper-class Sargeant Wilson. Mainwaring outranks Wilson' as both captain in the Home Guard and his manager at the bank, but has a massive complex about being socially inferior. I don't recall if they ever said if Wilson was wealthy but even if he was flat broke it wouldn't have changed the relationship. I can't think of a dynamic like that in US shows. Like if Uncle Phil had a seething resentment of Geoffrey.
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Nov 29, 2023 13:19
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Wilson is upper-middle by the standards of the time, which is slightly bananas considering he may be related to an Earl. Also the entirety of Keeping up Appearances.
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Nov 29, 2023 13:52
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Josef bugman posted:Wilson is upper-middle by the standards of the time, which is slightly bananas considering he may be related to an Earl. Keeping Up Appearances very much reminds me of my grandparents. My grandad was a Royal Marine, then a fireman, then had a job in the DHSS, and my grandma was a secretary until my grandad came back from the war and then was a housewife. By any standards they were working class people but their home was full of mahogany veneer furniture, cheap carriage clocks and copies of Majesty magazine in binders. Special occasions were catered by Marks and Spencer (although they still called it "Markses") and my grandmother in particular did her best to hide her Mancunian accent. They desperately, desperately wanted to be middle class - I don't know if this was something common to the Greatest Generation over here but the existence of Keeping Up Appearances certainly makes me think it was.
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Nov 29, 2023 14:01
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You ever talk to someone who clearly never really watched the show or movie in question? Chatting with someone about Mad Men, and the dude asked why Dick took the dogtags in Korea. Cause did he really need to? Couldn't he just tell people he was Don Draper? Why take the tags? Doesn't make any sense, he didn't need the dogtags with someone else's name. Because you need proof? You can't just namedrop and say you're a person. The dogtags made it look real. For Handmaid's Tale, person kept asking what about childfree women. Like if you didn't want kids, wouldn't it be a great side story in Gilead? Like if you were childfree before and after the takeover? Said person could not loving understand that in Gilead, women are literal chattel. You don't have a choice. There is no childfree. Did you even watch a single loving episode to get the most base understanding of the show?
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Nov 29, 2023 14:55
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Cowslips Warren posted:You ever talk to someone who clearly never really watched the show or movie in question? Thanks to reality no American will need to watch (or read, lol) Handmaid’s Tale to get this for much longer.
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Nov 29, 2023 17:45
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There's a bit in The Godfather where Vito's been shot, the guy responsible for the hit is under police protection, and Michael suggests "Well, how about we just meet up at a restaurant and I shoot them both in the face?" And Sonny completely poo-poos the idea:quote:What do you think, this the Army where you shoot 'em a mile away? No, you gotta get up close like this - badda-bing! - you blow their brains all over your nice Ivy League suit. Michael wasn't in the Army, Michael was a Marine. Michael fought in the loving Pacific in WWII. He's got a Silver Star, which is a decoration only awarded for combat. He's got a Purple Heart, so he was wounded. He's got a *Navy Cross*, the only higher decoration than that in the USMC is the Medal of Honor. His bravery in combat was so conspicuous that he was featured in Life magazine and received a battlefield commission. Michael didn't shoot people from a mile away. Michael lived in blasted-out coral craters filled with decaying human remains. Michael stacked bodies. Michael put his hand into a pile of goo that was a moment before was his best friend's face. I know that the family has good reasons to keep Michael's hands clean, and I know that Sonny and Paul love Michael and want to keep him safe. But this always came off as arrogant contempt from someone who should know better, not brotherly love.
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Nov 29, 2023 17:53
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Sonny is a bit of an rear end in a top hat and not that bright.
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Nov 29, 2023 19:14
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QR Code Geass posted:Thanks to reality no American will need to watch (or read, lol) Handmaid’s Tale to get this for much longer. I just felt like shaking this idiot because "it would just be nice to see the other side of things for women there!" Like she missed Jezebel's and the Colonies and pretty much everything and just wondered, in a place where women have no rights and can get killed for not having babies, what if they were childfree by choice! 
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Nov 30, 2023 01:12
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Cowslips Warren posted:I just felt like shaking this idiot because "it would just be nice to see the other side of things for women there!" Like she missed Jezebel's and the Colonies and pretty much everything and just wondered, in a place where women have no rights and can get killed for not having babies, what if they were childfree by choice! How has your friend managed to not drown when it's raining?
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Nov 30, 2023 01:42
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Biplane posted:How has your friend managed to not drown when it's raining? An acquaintance but we don't get much rain here. Maybe that's why. She further clarified that she wanted stories about handmaids who were child free, despite the fact that you became a handmaid early on because you had already had a child, ones who weren't upset that they had babies under the new regime and might have even been relieved that they didn't have to take care of them. In other words, women who were probably upset that they were raped but weren't too upset about having to raise a baby because thankfully they didn't have to! When I asked her if she was watching the same show or even read the book, she got very upset and blamed me for not understanding atypical thinking because she is autistic and I am not. Because if we're talking in the show, there were hand maids that at least in the early seasons, a few of them said they didn't mind the new regime and so far they were actually benefiting from it. I believe the handmaid in question that spoke of that changed her tune pretty quickly after she had her tongue ripped out and then ended up suicide bombing a commander center. And then there was a handmaid in a later season that insisted her four or five sons she had already had and given up were for the greatness of God. And she was totally fine with doing this forever, but she did have a minor panic attack at the thought of having a daughter. And that panic attack was pushed by the other handmaids who hated her and she ended up going postal and trying to gun down people in a grocery store. But no, the show should totally have delved more into handmaids who were maybe not thrilled about the ritualized rape, but were very happy that someone enjoyed the baby they didn't have to keep. Compared to the main character or say Janine who wanted to keep their babies. It's like at some point you just want to keep asking. Can you clarify that for me? Because I don't understand and then you realize that it's not you who doesn't understand. Because there is no understanding.
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Nov 30, 2023 01:48
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Not certain but I'm assuming any women that had gotten their tubes tied were probably lynched correct?
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Nov 30, 2023 01:54
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Panfilo posted:Not certain but I'm assuming any women that had gotten their tubes tied were probably lynched correct? either sent to the Colonies, Jezebel's, or became Marthas. rare ones might have become Aunts. but in short this idiot wanted a character, a Handmaid, who was glad she didn't have to raise her child because she was childfree. the whole "raped repeatedly" thing, well, everyone can agree that is bad BUT she would be glad someone else could raise the baby. I mean not counting the cult of Gilead being so horrific. Edit: just found out she is an anti natalist or however you define it, where she sees having children as morally wrong. So I'm suspecting she wanted to see that depicted in the show. Cowslips Warren has a new favorite as of 12:26 on Nov 30, 2023 |
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Nov 30, 2023 03:41
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Phanatic posted:I know that the family has good reasons to keep Michael's hands clean, and I know that Sonny and Paul love Michael and want to keep him safe. But this always came off as arrogant contempt from someone who should know better, not brotherly love. I don't remember how clear it was made in the movie, but in the book they made it quite explicit that the attempted assassination of Vito was because of Sonny's own stupidity. His public undercutting of Vito's stance on hard drugs made the other Families think that if he succeeded his father they would have a nice pliant little dog to do their bidding.
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