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Rand Brittain posted:I think Muir has already said that if Cytherea hadn't shown up, it would still have been just Ianthe who made Lyctor. (Spoilers because who knows if new readers may be coming through here and accidentally lay eyes on this) I'm not well versed in Muir interview additional information, but I'm not sure I follow? As a starting point, wouldn't it presume that if Cytherea wasn't involved no one would have potentially figured out perfect lyctorhood? It seems fair to assume that none of the houses - acting solely on their own in a "game" where whoever solves a puzzle first get exclusive access to the knowledge from that test [and resulting chamber notes] - would have figured out perfect lyctorhood, but I think it's also reasonable to believe that some houses would have worked together if Cytherea hadn't been involved. Obviously the tensions engendered by the setup of the challenge (that the first to ascend would be the only "winner") may still have meant that some houses refused to collaborate (see, e.g., Ninth House paranoia, Eighth House enmity, and Third House selfishness). But, keep in mind, if Cytherea wasn't involved then Dulcinea would have been there and she and Palamedes may have collaborated (especially once Palamedes got to the disintegration challenge which he refused to do to Cam). I also feel like the Fifth would have probably been open to collaboration generally if they had survived longer, and that could also have pulled in the Fourth. I'm also not convinced that the Second wouldn't have possibly been willing to work together if bodies hadn't been hitting the floor; they may not have had particular ties to the others (beyond maybe the Fourth just on the basis that their house is a general feeder for the army) but they seem like they would have been motivated to get the empire more Lyctors to support the cause [genocide]. I figure if that coalition (4/5/6/7 and maybe 2) had obtained ANY of the keys and - thus - had knowledge Harrow would have needed to figure out lyctorhood based on her lack of experience with anything but bone magic, and if that coalition couldn't figure it out themselves without her, they would have tried to get her to work with them. If 2/4/5/6/7/9 were all working together, it seems there's a reasonable chance they could figure out perfect lyctorhood. You've got Harrow's raw talent/baby-ghosts-and-maybe-Alecto-power, Palamedes' intelligence, Abigail's incredible spirit knowledge (ok, ok, different sub-specialty as the Eighth, but maybe a sufficient stand-in), reasonable knowledge of Flesh from Dulcinea as a stand-in for the Third's expertise in that area. If they did figure out perfect lyctorhood, it seems like the grounds for all the folks who saw the lyctor process as an abomination would have gone away. Any apparent reason it would be out of the question? Obviously Muir knows far more than we do, so if that was what she said I'd take it as true (of course!) but I wonder if she may have been specifically meaning the flawed lyctor process; IE, none of the other houses would have been willing to pull an Ianthe and sacrifice their cavs. The only others I could see doing it would be the Second (as an act of duty for the good of the empire, maybe), or Fourth (sacrifice and matyrdom seems their whole schtick, so unless the Fifth stopped them, I could see Jeannemary basically pulling a Gideon and forcing her sacrifice so Isaac would be able to ascend, even if he didn't want her to) - both as noted by PupsOfWar. Kind of interesting to consider how poorly this could have gone for Jod; especially given he's able to River-teleport, I'm surprised he didn't at least pop in to oversee it at least a little bit; given RBs have to travel the distance, seems like it would be wholly possible for him to have overseen the initiation and then rivered back to the mythraeum, then check in weekly or whatever. Though that also kind of begs the question why fight the RBs if Jod can just travel the River to cross vast distances quickly, such that they could have just ping-ponged the RBs between two incredibly distant locations with nothing (inhabited [by anyone Jod "cares" about) in between them?
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Dec 6, 2023 19:23
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Zierham posted:(Spoilers because who knows if new readers may be coming through here and accidentally lay eyes on this) I think your analysis is overall pretty good, but basically the big deal for me seems to be how several of them came in assuming competition was the order of the day. Even without Cytherea, Ianthe in particular is a huge rear end in a top hat and considers it a giant matter of her ego. Much as Harrow did, really. It was the murders that mostly pushed the Ninth to finally work with the others, so without the murders you get two of the most brilliant necros there convinced it's a solo race. Ianthe at least would believably turn to sabotage if it seemed like anyone else was going to beat her, too. Jod decided to play the cryptic Game Master who wants you to figure things out on only half the information you really need, and it shot his plans in the foot because he hoped for a full set.
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Dec 6, 2023 19:40
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To defend Jod (though under no circumstances do you have to hand it to him), "There are no laws, do as thou wilt" is a good test of character. These are, after all, going to be super-powered immortal liches who can teleport throughout the cosmos and murder planets at a whim, so you want to be sure they're not sociopathic monsters before they ascend. Well, uh, there's no follow-through on doing anything about all that after you've discovered their true character, but I'm sure he was just busy or something.
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Dec 6, 2023 20:03
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Uranium Phoenix posted:To defend Jod (though under no circumstances do you have to hand it to him), "There are no laws, do as thou wilt" is a good test of character. These are, after all, going to be super-powered immortal liches who can teleport throughout the cosmos and murder planets at a whim, so you want to be sure they're not sociopathic monsters before they ascend. I agree that's basically a character test but it seems designed to help the sociopathic monsters succeed
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Dec 6, 2023 20:10
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Zierham posted:(Spoilers because who knows if new readers may be coming through here and accidentally lay eyes on this) Dulcie would've wormed her way into Harrow's heart like she did in the River and they would've been a power throuple with Sex Pal while their cavs formed their own dork alliance.
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Dec 6, 2023 20:12
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FuturePastNow posted:I agree that's basically a character test but it seems designed to help the sociopathic monsters succeed 
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Dec 6, 2023 20:35
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But John is nice, this doesn't make any sense
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Dec 6, 2023 20:44
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sebmojo posted:But John is nice, this doesn't make any sense Seriously, it says it right there on the first page of the first book! "In the myriadic year of our Lord - the ten thousandth year of the King Undying, the kindly Prince of Death!..."
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Dec 6, 2023 21:55
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Yeah thank you it's totally supported in the text.
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Dec 6, 2023 22:16
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Zierham posted:Seriously, it says it right there on the first page of the first book! "In the myriadic year of our Lord - the ten thousandth year of the King Undying, the kindly Prince of Death!..." Well now we know from Nona that that line is actually referring to the next name in the sentence Gideon who is now one of the tower princes lmao
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Dec 6, 2023 22:41
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Fell off my first read of GtN after getting back from Thanksgiving, powered through the rest of it over the past couple of days and I am eager to read more about these gay space wizards and their exploits. I feel like there's something very weird going on here!
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Dec 9, 2023 07:01
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C-Euro posted:Fell off my first read of GtN after getting back from Thanksgiving, powered through the rest of it over the past couple of days and I am eager to read more about these gay space wizards and their exploits. I feel like there's something very weird going on here! Naw it's p much WYSIWYG
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Dec 9, 2023 09:10
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Please live post your reactions to harrow (also this thread is full of spoilers and it's worth coming to it cold)
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Dec 9, 2023 09:11
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As you can see, the weird thing going on is that Gideon is Harrow's bodyguard.
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Dec 9, 2023 09:50
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They were roommates!
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Dec 9, 2023 14:19
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3 Action Economist posted:They were roommates! Cousins, at least in the English dub  Also boy they really floored it for that last 20% or so of the book. I think I have clocked the framing conceit of Harrow just from the couple of preview chapters that were at the end of Gideon, but yes I will have to remember to buy it before my trip.
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Dec 9, 2023 15:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58wcEfJuwQg how does this fit so well to the song, wow
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Dec 9, 2023 19:58
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(genuflects)
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Dec 9, 2023 20:14
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Finally started Nona today. About 20% in and I love it. But what the gently caress is going on
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Dec 9, 2023 20:34
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mdemone posted:Finally started Nona today. About 20% in and I love it. Nona just really likes birthdays!
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Dec 9, 2023 20:37
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mdemone posted:Finally started Nona today. About 20% in and I love it. The book makes a lot more sense if you consult the list of dogs at the beginning as you read.
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Dec 9, 2023 21:06
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mdemone posted:Finally started Nona today. About 20% in and I love it. Everything. Everything is going on.
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Dec 9, 2023 22:14
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Siliziumleben posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58wcEfJuwQg how does this fit so well to the song, wow Oh yeah I've seen this before it rules
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Dec 9, 2023 22:16
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I haven't seen a Locked Tomb animatic I didn't LOVE.
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Dec 9, 2023 23:44
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The art and memes are all generally vg
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Dec 10, 2023 00:36
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Halfway through Nona. I think I have a grasp on things but I'm still on John's side.
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Dec 10, 2023 00:42
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mdemone posted:Halfway through Nona. I think I have a grasp on things but I'm still on John's side. How familiar are you with bovine sentience?
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Dec 10, 2023 00:45
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josh04 posted:How familiar are you with bovine sentience? I read the book Cows by Matthew Stokoe, which if you've read that book is going to answer that question. But look. If you want to destroy capitalism you're going to have to break some eggs (after first becoming a god)
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Dec 10, 2023 00:50
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You know, you can accuse John of many things, but being a capitalist is not one of them I suppose.
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Dec 10, 2023 01:25
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mdemone posted:Halfway through Nona. I think I have a grasp on things but I'm still on John's side. There are good points on both sides of the Necrolord Prime good/ bad question
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Dec 10, 2023 02:17
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Every so often, I marvel at the fact that the nineth house are the skull painting weirdos of the necromantic empire. True brilliance there
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Dec 10, 2023 02:21
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 Huh. You know...
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Dec 10, 2023 03:32
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StumblyWumbly posted:One could argue that the difference between a hero and a villain is whether they are driven by hate or love. even initially, John is driven by a love for his answer for how to save humanity. the capitalists are wrong, but John is not interested in saving humanity, he wants to destroy humanity and create a necromantic empire to destroy the capitalists What a great series, I'll finish Nona tomorrow and then re-read all the last 100 pages of spoilers in here
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Dec 10, 2023 03:34
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mdemone posted:What a great series, I'll finish Nona tomorrow and then re-read all the last 100 pages of spoilers in here Good plan. Then you can desperately listen to the audio books and reread until Alecto hits, like the rest of us
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Dec 10, 2023 03:47
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mdemone posted:Halfway through Nona. I think I have a grasp on things but I'm still on John's side. I just did my very insane read of Nona (only read the John chapters and the last third of the book) and OHHH I HATE JOHN GAIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Dec 10, 2023 05:05
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Moria Quirks narration is amazing.
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Dec 10, 2023 05:17
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big dyke energy posted:I just did my very insane read of Nona (only read the John chapters and the last third of the book) and OHHH I HATE JOHN GAIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look, he's just really extremely sorry. If only he had not done the things he did and would unquestionably do again. If only.
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Dec 10, 2023 05:27
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M_Gargantua posted:Moria Quirks narration is amazing. Her work needs to be acknowledged in there being so many awesome fan animatics. Great animation with adequate voice work is still great, but great fanimation with great voice work is sublime.
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Dec 10, 2023 05:31
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sebmojo posted:Look, he's just really extremely sorry. If only he had not done the things he did and would unquestionably do again. If only. He should be sorrier. Just my opinion.
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Dec 10, 2023 07:00
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M_Gargantua posted:Moria Quirks narration is amazing.
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Dec 10, 2023 09:23
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