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Noir89
Oct 9, 2012

I made a dumdum :(
Aw now I wanna BOK BOK and HOLA SKINKSSSSS but I still have long victory left with the dumb angry stunties :(

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Rogue AI Goddess
May 10, 2012

I enjoy the sight of humans on their knees.
That was a joke... unless..?
If the elves want to quickly replenish their ranks, they can raise the dead like normal people.

DaysBefore
Jan 24, 2019

wiegieman posted:

There are exactly as many Elves as the story can hold. Like hot air always does, they expand to fill the available narrative volume.

Yup. It was always like this. Elves and Dwarves are always dying out, teetering on the edge of extinction, but also there are enough of them to die by the tens of thousands every few decades in massive mega wars. Warhammer lol

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021

Noir89 posted:

I have memories of hearing that either the vortex/magic on the island or that it is a curse from Asyrian since he wanted Malekith to be king is the reason for the high elves low birthrate but I don't remember where I heard that so it might very well have been fan theories.

In the end Warhammer have never really gone into population numbers and birth rates except in very general terms for good reasons! :v:

edit: and TWW3 is even more vague. I just conquered the badlands and the middle world spine mountains as Thorgrim, the populations in several holds and former(?) orc camps are booming!

Where are all these dwarfs coming from? Are the dwarfs just moving into the orc encampents? When I took a tier 4 orc settlement and occupied it, moving to a T3, did we magically just move in a bunch of dwarfs from nowhere without having to food them up or did we "integrate" the old orc population? If we did that, did we really RECONQUER THE REALMS! according to the longbeards?

just pretend that your victories is leading to dorfs resettling the holds.

I dont know
Aug 9, 2003

That Guy here...
Baby Dwarfs grow fast, and recapturing a lost hold is always celebrated with a giant orgy.

Ardent Communist
Oct 17, 2010

ALLAH! MU'AMMAR! LIBYA WA BAS!

DaysBefore posted:

Yup. It was always like this. Elves and Dwarves are always dying out, teetering on the edge of extinction, but also there are enough of them to die by the tens of thousands every few decades in massive mega wars. Warhammer lol
I mean, sounds like there's a built in explanation. Huge amounts of the population are killed every 50 or 60 years, so the elves even if they are being born often die before they end up having children, same for dwarves, whereas humans, skavens and lizardmen can have a few generations in that time so even after taking the population declining wars into account, and the low-scale guerrilla war chaos cults and beastmen, their populations are still growing. The elves and the dwarves are somewhat maintaining their numbers, but the tragedies keep them from ever going past that.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011
Any good Kislev mods? I found one to give katarin her sleigh and I have no idea if it's actually good but I can't not use it, and it's making me want to start another Katarin game. There doesn't seem to be as many of the big changes to Kislev the way there are for Empire (though Empire obviously has 3 games worth of mods to draw on).

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

Ravenfood posted:

Any good Kislev mods? I found one to give katarin her sleigh and I have no idea if it's actually good but I can't not use it, and it's making me want to start another Katarin game. There doesn't seem to be as many of the big changes to Kislev the way there are for Empire (though Empire obviously has 3 games worth of mods to draw on).

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3044388086

DeathSandwich
Apr 24, 2008

I fucking hate puzzles.

This is such a genuinely great idea I might have to pick it up. "literally huntsmen" actually works really good for the concept of the unit and gives them a niche separate from the other bow units Kislev has.

Doomykins
Jun 28, 2008

Didn't you mean to ask about flowers?
Long lived near-humans who reproduce as fast as us and mature by 20 but live to be 300-1000 makes a bit of sense for the Warhammer scale of war if you ignore "dying out" as literal low birthrate. Could say their cultures are fading from glory(Elves) or literally dying(Dwarves, constantly losing lands/getting wiped by Skaven and Orks.) Humans who live to 100 at best can have double digit kids if they try. An Elven or Dwarven family could hit the triple digits per couple. And every kid who hits 20+ can do the same! What a pyramid scheme! OK, it's Warhammer, there's A LOT of death to go around.

Most media doesn't even attempt to approach long life races with any logistics, admittedly with good reason. Imagine how our rate of scientific progress would be if Einstein was still alive in the prime of his life that will last another 2 centuries minimum and he can rub shoulders with every great mind born since The Renaissance. It's a dizzying task to write a believable world following that.

All that nerd poo poo to say it's canon that Elves and Dwarves gently caress.

The Door Frame
Dec 5, 2011

I don't know man everytime I go to the gym here there are like two huge dudes with raging high and tights snorting Nitro-tech off of each other's rock hard abs.

Doomykins posted:

Long lived near-humans who reproduce as fast as us and mature by 20 but live to be 300-1000 makes a bit of sense for the Warhammer scale of war if you ignore "dying out" as literal low birthrate. Could say their cultures are fading from glory(Elves) or literally dying(Dwarves, constantly losing lands/getting wiped by Skaven and Orks.) Humans who live to 100 at best can have double digit kids if they try. An Elven or Dwarven family could hit the triple digits per couple. And every kid who hits 20+ can do the same! What a pyramid scheme! OK, it's Warhammer, there's A LOT of death to go around.

Most media doesn't even attempt to approach long life races with any logistics, admittedly with good reason. Imagine how our rate of scientific progress would be if Einstein was still alive in the prime of his life that will last another 2 centuries minimum and he can rub shoulders with every great mind born since The Renaissance. It's a dizzying task to write a believable world following that.

All that nerd poo poo to say it's canon that Elves and Dwarves gently caress.

Good luck convincing the UberBoomers that are older than the trees that they're wrong and things should be different

Although, isn't that kind of Thorgrim's deal? He's a boomer Dwarf who wants to go back to the old ways

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011
no, thorgrim is a progressive by dwarf standards who is willing to forgive some of the pettier grudges or just accept payment for them instead of burning cities to the ground

Cranappleberry
Jan 27, 2009

toasterwarrior posted:

no, thorgrim is a progressive by dwarf standards who is willing to forgive some of the pettier grudges or just accept payment for them instead of burning cities to the ground

might as well be a halfling

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

The Door Frame posted:

He's a boomer Dwarf who wants to go back to the old ways

That's Thorek. He doesn't trust gunpowder weapons because they're too new and unproven.

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011
i wish there was more lore of interdwarf political tension between the idea that it is good and dwarfenly proper to follow the high king because they wouldn't be the high king if they didn't deserve, and that the high king is a goddamn liberal who's just letting these grudges slip by and shaming our ancestorssss

Cranappleberry
Jan 27, 2009

this mod is extremely fail because it removes the scopes

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011

Cythereal posted:

That's Thorek. He doesn't trust gunpowder weapons because they're too new and unproven.

thorek is the extremely problematic grandpa in a race defined by being problematic grandpas

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion


Doomykins posted:

Long lived near-humans who reproduce as fast as us and mature by 20 but live to be 300-1000 makes a bit of sense for the Warhammer scale of war if you ignore "dying out" as literal low birthrate. Could say their cultures are fading from glory(Elves) or literally dying(Dwarves, constantly losing lands/getting wiped by Skaven and Orks.) Humans who live to 100 at best can have double digit kids if they try. An Elven or Dwarven family could hit the triple digits per couple. And every kid who hits 20+ can do the same! What a pyramid scheme! OK, it's Warhammer, there's A LOT of death to go around.

Most media doesn't even attempt to approach long life races with any logistics, admittedly with good reason. Imagine how our rate of scientific progress would be if Einstein was still alive in the prime of his life that will last another 2 centuries minimum and he can rub shoulders with every great mind born since The Renaissance. It's a dizzying task to write a believable world following that.

All that nerd poo poo to say it's canon that Elves and Dwarves gently caress.

The "correct" (meaning, traditional) minimum number of kids for a Dwarf couple is 4, partly because of the composition of the Ancestor Gods (Valaya and her 3 husbands) and partly because Dwarfs have a 3:1 gender ratio.

Many Dwarf couples will dutifully have 4 children then decide they don't want to inflict the decline of their people on a 5th, because the Dwarfs (particularly of the Old Holds) are depressed as a people in general but aren't going to let that get in the way of getting on with things.

toasterwarrior posted:

i wish there was more lore of interdwarf political tension between the idea that it is good and dwarfenly proper to follow the high king because they wouldn't be the high king if they didn't deserve, and that the high king is a goddamn liberal who's just letting these grudges slip by and shaming our ancestorssss

The correct way to demonstrate that you are not a fan of the High King is through intense Grumbling

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Not a Warhammer Dwarf but same idea

Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers





more like vlad von bitchstein

neonchameleon
Nov 14, 2012



SirPhoebos posted:

I think a more reasonable take would be that high elf reproductive habits are in line with modern US/Western Europe birthrates. And whenever the high elves get reminded what setting they're in, it takes long drat time to recover those losses.

Yeah, that's my take. High Elven society is run by self interested lords, and it takes a lot of money and hassle to raise kids (state schools? Who are you kidding? You can pay for tutors!) Rich ladies don't want the distraction of having kids while poor ones can't afford it and want to rise in society. And they can all cast contraception charms. Meanwhile the Dark Elves are closer to Modest Proposal style incentives for people to have kids so it's not ruinous in the same way.

Noir89
Oct 9, 2012

I made a dumdum :(
Malekith, for all that is wrong with him, turns out to be a staunch believer in social security nets and have generous state-sponsored child benefits to parents.

This is of course payed for with taxes on corsair activity.

Edit: Did your kid get turned into a witch elf spa-bath? Don't worry! Get two more and we recompensate with 4 times the monthly child support from the state!

Noir89 fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Dec 29, 2023

Strategic Tea
Sep 1, 2012

Noir89 posted:

Malekith, for all that is wrong with him, turns out to be a staunch believer in social security nets and have generous state-sponsored child benefits to parents.

This is of course payed for with taxes on corsair activity.

Edit: Did your kid get turned into a witch elf spa-bath? Don't worry! Get two more and we recompensate with 4 times the monthly child support from the state!

They truly are... Canadian

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

wiegieman posted:

The correct way to demonstrate that you are not a fan of the High King is through intense Grumbling

Also, he was voted into the job. The title of High King is decided, upon the death of the previous, by the kings of the dwarven realms voting on which king they believe has made the greatest accomplishments. Thorgrim won the title of High King for reestablishing contact with the northern realm of Kraka Drak, which the southern dwarves had thought was destroyed by Chaos long ago.

Log082
Nov 8, 2008


Cythereal posted:

Also, he was voted into the job. The title of High King is decided, upon the death of the previous, by the kings of the dwarven realms voting on which king they believe has made the greatest accomplishments. Thorgrim won the title of High King for reestablishing contact with the northern realm of Kraka Drak, which the southern dwarves had thought was destroyed by Chaos long ago.

And which was promptly actually destroyed by Chaos shortly afterwards, which always seemed like a waste of story potential. Then again, Warhammer Fantasy is basically waste of story potential: the franchise, what with the whole end times thing.

If people like dwarves, I highly recommend the Divided Loyalties quest (CYOA, basically) at Sufficient Velocity. It's fanfic, of course, but it's very very good fanfic. The second main arc has the protagonist sign on to help Belagar's reconquest on Karak 8 Peaks, and it's fantastic.

https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/warhammer-fantasy-divided-loyalties-an-advisors-quest.44838/

Anno
May 10, 2017

I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!

Finished my Isabella SFO campaign and started a new run as Tyrion. I think the mod does a pretty good job on capturing the silly elf fantasy - my armies are incredibly formidable but cost a ton and don’t replenish quickly. 80 turns in that hasn’t mattered a lot because I have a line of Lothern Spear Guard with 90+ MD, but it’s been fun to take my 1100ish elves into a hug box against 4000 orcs, each unit fighting multiple units of the enemy, and come out the other side taking like 50 casualties. My economy is finally starting to really explode so it’s time to cleanse the dark elves.

Tyrion himself is a very solid lord and fun to charge around with some Silver Helms. And his unique skills/techs set him up for two very different playthroughs. Good stuff so far imo.

Cranappleberry
Jan 27, 2009
there's gonna be an epic showdown. Just you wait. This time we ctrl+c, ctrl+v the entire thesaurus every page.

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
old world mod updated

added in northern araby and more badlands

ninjahedgehog
Feb 17, 2011

It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.


Khalida, Luthor Harkon, Noctilus, and Eltharion added as new LLs, while N'kari, Ku'gath and Sigvald all got new starting positions to make Norsca a little less crowded.

I wonder how much Robie plans to expand further -- Darklands are a pretty obvious next step considering the current bounds of the map, but idk if I want him to push further south and east of that. Wouldn't mind adding some of the Chaos Wastes though, if only to include those gorgeous battle maps

Anno
May 10, 2017

I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!

Some mods, man. This is a ridiculous enough thing that I’d just take is as a new Cathay unit.

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
you cannot stop the kitbash.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

Anno posted:

Some mods, man. This is a ridiculous enough thing that I’d just take is as a new Cathay unit.



This amazing.


ninjahedgehog posted:

Khalida, Luthor Harkon, Noctilus, and Eltharion added as new LLs, while N'kari, Ku'gath and Sigvald all got new starting positions to make Norsca a little less crowded.

I wonder how much Robie plans to expand further -- Darklands are a pretty obvious next step considering the current bounds of the map, but idk if I want him to push further south and east of that. Wouldn't mind adding some of the Chaos Wastes though, if only to include those gorgeous battle maps

I just hope the dev never gives in to the temptation to just expand the map to the whole Warhammer world.

Anno
May 10, 2017

I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!

Can he? I thought they were still constrained in terms of overall size to the size of the IE map and this is just a big map of a more focused part of the world.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Third World Reagan posted:

old world mod updated

added in northern araby and more badlands

What's that?

Anno
May 10, 2017

I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3081800026

A new campaign mod that basically zooms in on the Old World and surrounding areas but at the size of Immortal Empires.

So you end up getting stuff like Karak Eight Peaks actually being a little area of the map with eight peaks rather than a settlement.



Or Athel Loren being a big forest.



It's cool.

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021

Anno posted:

Some mods, man. This is a ridiculous enough thing that I’d just take is as a new Cathay unit.



what mod

Anno
May 10, 2017

I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!


idk it just popped up in the screenshot channel of the mod Discord. Sounded like something either currently unreleased or maybe only released in Chinese and is being translated.

Also has these elemental bear variants I guess?

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

toasterwarrior posted:

i wish there was more lore of interdwarf political tension between the idea that it is good and dwarfenly proper to follow the high king because they wouldn't be the high king if they didn't deserve, and that the high king is a goddamn liberal who's just letting these grudges slip by and shaming our ancestorssss

one of the last bits of lore they added before the End Times was Thorgrim Grudgebearer doing something unprecedented and absolutely terrifying. him and Karl Franz were discussing matters of state. things got heated. and Karl Franz said something that was worthy of Grudge, in the presence of all the high witnesses of the Holds. and Thorgrim pretended not to have heard it, for the sake of pursuing their higher goals.

this served to immediately refocus every Dwarf lord from wanting to kill Karl Franz to wanting, instead, to kill Thorgrim.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:

one of the last bits of lore they added before the End Times was Thorgrim Grudgebearer doing something unprecedented and absolutely terrifying. him and Karl Franz were discussing matters of state. things got heated. and Karl Franz said something that was worthy of Grudge, in the presence of all the high witnesses of the Holds. and Thorgrim pretended not to have heard it, for the sake of pursuing their higher goals.

this served to immediately refocus every Dwarf lord from wanting to kill Karl Franz to wanting, instead, to kill Thorgrim.

Incorrect, it was Tyrion who Thorgrim was talking to, so it was a super arrogant elf he brushed off.

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ninjahedgehog
Feb 17, 2011

It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.


Torrannor posted:

I just hope the dev never gives in to the temptation to just expand the map to the whole Warhammer world.

Same -- for me the appeal isn't just an insane number of provinces and factions, it's the focus on my favorite part of the WH world and I hope he doesn't succumb to feature creep. Wouldn't mind separate mods that give the TOW treatment to other parts of the world though. A giant-sized Ulthuan and Naggaroth map could be pretty cool, for example.

e: here are all the new startpos

ninjahedgehog fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jan 1, 2024

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