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We just had a guy last week hand over $1.3 million in cash to a "courier" in a parking lot to invest it in Bitcoin. https://www.cleveland19.com/2024/02/14/holmes-county-man-loses-13-million-cryptocurrency-scam/ It boggled my mind how somebody capable of getting their hands on that much cash would be stupid enough to hand it over to a stranger in a parking lot, but I guess this is fairly common.
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Feb 20, 2024 17:20
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Cat Army 
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Pantaloon Pontiff posted:How on earth is "I wouldn't empty my bank account into a shoe box and hand it to someone" and "if I thought an LEO was investigating me for a crime, I'd immediately get a lawyer" indicative of an excessive or insatiable desire for wealth? I certainly like having my money, but I don't think 'I don't want to put my savings in a shoe box and give it to someone' is excessively greedy, and 'get a lawyer if the police are questioning you' comes from a desire to not end up in prison, which isn't usually considered 'avarice'. I don't think that the argument is that you would have necessarily fallen for that particular scam or that being aware of common scams won't help you avoid them. There are indeed certain scams you probably won't fall for because you know enough or they just don't appeal to you. I probably won't fall for a Nigerian Prince email scam simply because what they want you to do would be immoral (and illegal) even if it was not a scam so I wouldn't do it for that reason. The argument is that there will be some situation where you will fall for some scam that in retrospect seems obvious. This will be because, essetially through bad luck, the exact nature of the scam will key into something that is happening in your life that makes it seem more reasonable and it will happen at a time when you are sufficiently tired and busy that you will have a momentary lapse of attention and that will allow them to get through long enough that they can get some money out of you before you realize what is going on. Learning about different types of scams and how the work is good and reduces the attack surface but it won't fully protect you because you just can't maintain the level of awareness you need all the time. This can happen to anyone so you need to have a plan to deal with it when (not if) it happens. It is basically that there are millions of scammers with thousands of different scams: only one of them needs to be alert and lucky once to get through whereas you need to be alert and lucky every single time.
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Feb 20, 2024 17:32
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I got my big fancy words mixed up, whatever. Way to drill on that instead of the broad statement of just be humble and watch for scams.
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Feb 20, 2024 17:46
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SettingSun posted:I got my big fancy words mixed up, whatever. Way to drill on that instead of the broad statement of just be humble and watch for scams. I think it's more that "avarice" makes enough sense to come off as a really weird take that can be addressed as opposed to "oh they used the wrong word."
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Feb 20, 2024 19:33
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MightyJoe36 posted:We just had a guy last week hand over $1.3 million in cash to a "courier" in a parking lot to invest it in Bitcoin. Targeting people who are interested in becoming cryptocurrency investors is a magic shortcut to finding marks who have vast disposable income and believe they are too smart for traditional investments.
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Feb 20, 2024 21:35
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Give me your money nerds
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Feb 20, 2024 23:09
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bird with big dick posted:Where you nutting for only $10 Your wife’s house
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Feb 20, 2024 23:09
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Professor Shark posted:Give me your money nerds ah, wallet inspector, right? I'm sure you'll find everything's in order.
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Feb 20, 2024 23:18
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Again? I'm gonna run out of shoeboxes. e: ahh-var-EEE-chay. Hm, must be Italian! bort fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 01:37
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A_Bluenoser posted:I don't think that the argument is that you would have necessarily fallen for that particular scam or that being aware of common scams won't help you avoid them. There are indeed certain scams you probably won't fall for because you know enough or they just don't appeal to you. I probably won't fall for a Nigerian Prince email scam simply because what they want you to do would be immoral (and illegal) even if it was not a scam so I wouldn't do it for that reason. Saying that there are categories of scams I would not fall for resulted in replies like: "Everyone likes to think they're too smart to be a sucker. Con artists love this, because you're absolutely not." "And you, oh great scam detector, can be a victim if the circumstances meet your specific criteria." " Yeah, thinking you’re not the person that can be scammed puts you halfway there for the scammer". So the argument does seem to be that I'm arrogant (or greedy, I guess) for thinking exactly what you said above. quote:This will be because, essetially through bad luck, the exact nature of the scam will key into something that is happening in your life that makes it seem more reasonable and it will happen at a time when you are sufficiently tired and busy that you will have a momentary lapse of attention and that will allow them to get through long enough that they can get some money out of you before you realize what is going on. Learning about different types of scams and how the work is good and reduces the attack surface but it won't fully protect you because you just can't maintain the level of awareness you need all the time. As I've already said, I could certainly see myself giving someone pocket money, click on a link, give my credit card number to someone I shouldn't, or similar things that actually involve a momentary lapse of reason. But much more than a momentary lapse of attention is needed to wait until a business day, go to a credit union branch, fill out the forms to withdraw my entire savings account in cash, talk the past the credit union people asking me why I'm withdrawing so much money, put said cash into a bag, wait until evening, look for a car to approach, and hand the bag of cash to the person in the car. I can maintain the level of awareness that I need to avoid going through a likely multi-day process to do something that I know will have significant consequences for my life indefinitely. quote:This can happen to anyone so you need to have a plan to deal with it when (not if) it happens. I don't believe that it can happen to anyone, and I think it makes more sense to make a plan of 'I plan on not withdrawing my entire bank account into a paper bag and handing it to someone' than to plan on someone one day convincing me to do that. Also I think a plan of 'get a lawyer as soon as possible if you think you're being investigated by LEOs, yes even if they tell you they're on your side' (which also derails the example) is better than 'make a plan for what to do if someone convinces you that they're an LEO and asks you to do something stupid, and you do it'. SettingSun posted:I got my big fancy words mixed up, whatever. Way to drill on that instead of the broad statement of just be humble and watch for scams. I don't believe that it shows arrogance (I'm guessing that's what you meant? You still didn't clarify) to say "I will not go through the multi-hour to multi-day process (that involves talking to people who want to verify I'm not being scammed) required to withdraw my savings account into a paper bag, then hand it to someone" or "If I think I'm the target of an LEO investigation, I will contact a lawyer ASAP even if the alleged LEO tells me not to".
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Feb 21, 2024 20:12
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If you are aware that you absolutely can be tricked by a scam, even if you have an understanding of how it works, then you are in the correct mindset to hopefully avoid it. If you are totally confident that you know the warning signs for a given type of scam and are immune to it, then you're setting yourself up for trouble if targeted by a con that deviates from how you expect it to proceed or catches you off guard on the worst day of your life. Which, yeah, that's a perfect example of hubris in action More generally, I think saying 'drat, this could also get me on a bad day' or not crapping overly much on folks for falling for stupid cons (ok, maybe a little because its' funny sometimes  ) is helpful for others who may not have that mindset, or are too ashamed of their own experiences to share what scam they fell for and how it happened. Want to encourage folks to educate others
Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 20:39
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Pantaloon Pontiff posted:As I've already said, I could certainly see myself giving someone pocket money, click on a link, give my credit card number to someone I shouldn't, or similar things that actually involve a momentary lapse of reason. But much more than a momentary lapse of attention is needed to wait until a business day, go to a credit union branch, fill out the forms to withdraw my entire savings account in cash, talk the past the credit union people asking me why I'm withdrawing so much money, put said cash into a bag, wait until evening, look for a car to approach, and hand the bag of cash to the person in the car. I can maintain the level of awareness that I need to avoid going through a likely multi-day process to do something that I know will have significant consequences for my life indefinitely. And this is where I disagree: there will be situations where someone clever enough hitting you at exactly the right time that will be able to get you to do this and it is a bit of hubris to think that it is not possible. I am pretty aware of most of the scams that go round and I still know that I could get caught-out by something like a health emergency scam involving fraudsters impersonating my mother if they hit me at exactly the right time and played on my emotions just right. It would just be plain self-deception on my part to think that there is no situation where this could not happen. quote:I don't believe that it shows arrogance (I'm guessing that's what you meant? You still didn't clarify) to say "I will not go through the multi-hour to multi-day process (that involves talking to people who want to verify I'm not being scammed) required to withdraw my savings account into a paper bag, then hand it to someone" or "If I think I'm the target of an LEO investigation, I will contact a lawyer ASAP even if the alleged LEO tells me not to". The thing is that most people don't have a lawyer on speed-dial and might not really know how to get one, especially in a panic situation. There are also a lot of people who can't afford one unless one is appointed to them (which normally only happens after an arrest). I am a fairly successful upper middle-class professional and I don't really know how I would get a criminal lawyer on spec and would be worried about the cost even though I am pretty financially secure; it is one of those things that is easier said than done for many folks.
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Feb 21, 2024 22:25
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Yawn
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Feb 21, 2024 23:46
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i gotta side with them here, dumb people exist, and they're not really saying anything worth all the disagreement posts
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Feb 22, 2024 00:09
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Despite my snarky response, I do apologize if I offended anyone (except for BWaBD) with my posts
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Feb 22, 2024 00:14
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some people give money and some people take money
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Feb 22, 2024 00:24
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A_Bluenoser posted:I am a fairly successful upper middle-class professional and I don't really know how I would get a criminal lawyer on spec and would be worried about the cost even though I am pretty financially secure; it is one of those things that is easier said than done for many folks.
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Feb 22, 2024 00:57
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I just got a call on my Google Voice number that left a voicemail saying that they had received two calls from my Google Voice number and were wondering what I wanted. They said to call back at a number which matched the number that called. I obviously didn't make those calls. I checked through my Google Voice call history, settings, linked devices, as well as my Google Account security page, and nothing looks suspicious. I Googled the number that called and some guy's home repair service comes up with a handful of Yelp reviews, the most recent being two years old. Does this sound like a familiar scam attempt? Or is someone spoofing my Google Voice number and the person that called me was legit?
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Feb 22, 2024 01:08
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Could just be validating Google Voice numbers as having a human being attached to sell to spammers, scammers, etc.
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Feb 22, 2024 01:37
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Blue Moonlight posted:Could just be validating Google Voice numbers as having a human being attached to sell to spammers, scammers, etc. True. This got me thinking - is it best practice these days to just use the generic voicemail greeting rather than a personal one?
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Feb 22, 2024 02:04
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Professor Shark posted:Despite my snarky response, I do apologize if I offended anyone (except for BWaBD) with my posts Rude
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Feb 22, 2024 02:11
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:True. This got me thinking - is it best practice these days to just use the generic voicemail greeting rather than a personal one? I'm not sure it makes a difference, I'm pretty sure most call centers use an autodialer that only alerts the caller if someone actually picks up. If you notice an audible pause when you answer the phone with someone that's typically why
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Feb 22, 2024 02:16
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bird with big dick posted:Where you nutting for only $10 Your mom raised her price to $10 now? Now that's a scam.
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Feb 22, 2024 02:42
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bird with big dick posted:Not me. I've been following your saga in the legal thread, it seems like you've been scammed by bad lawyers into paying them to do nothing at least several times!
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Feb 22, 2024 06:32
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:True. This got me thinking - is it best practice these days to just use the generic voicemail greeting rather than a personal one? There's a degree of concern about harvesting voice recordings to make an AI voice for scam purposes (e.g. to target your co-workers or family) but I don't think a voicemail message is likely to be an adequate corpus.
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Feb 22, 2024 07:53
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:I just got a call on my Google Voice number that left a voicemail saying that they had received two calls from my Google Voice number and were wondering what I wanted. They said to call back at a number which matched the number that called. Scammers spoof random numbers, often in the area code the caller is from but not always
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Feb 22, 2024 08:13
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Volmarias posted:I've been following your saga in the legal thread, it seems like you've been scammed by bad lawyers into paying them to do nothing at least several times! I’ve never paid a lawyer for anything they’re all whores that work on contingency.
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Feb 22, 2024 08:18
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Feb 22, 2024 10:54
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In terms of being scammed, I almost got caught out once, a few years ago; a person called, claiming to be from my bank, and I was tired from a day of work and listened to them about some fraudulent charges on my card. When they started asking for personal information, I immediately stopped and asked them to verify something on my account (I forget what, I think last five transactions or home address or something?) and they immediately hung up. I called my bank right that second and confirmed that there was no fraud warnings on my account or anything such-as, and I didn't provide any identifying information to the fraudster, but instructed my bank to put a note on my account just in case. It was the same kind of perfect storm of bullshit people were talking about: I was tired after a long, stressful day at work, the person said enough proper nouns early on, and I had just had a previous card have issues with mistaken fraudulent purchases. Had I not had a big bright come-to-reality moment, it's totally the kind of thing that would've gotten me.
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Feb 22, 2024 20:20
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Discendo Vox posted:There's a degree of concern about harvesting voice recordings to make an AI voice for scam purposes (e.g. to target your co-workers or family) but I don't think a voicemail message is likely to be an adequate corpus. So long as you voicemail isn't "I am the system administrator, my voice is my passport. Verify me."
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Feb 24, 2024 09:13
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I meant like, does having a custom voicemail alert scammers/spam callers that it is in fact an active number? They're probably more likely to ignore a generic voicemail greeting.
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Feb 24, 2024 09:26
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:True. This got me thinking - is it best practice these days to just use the generic voicemail greeting rather than a personal one? I sure as hell will not give out a free sample of my voice for no reason, so my voicemail greeting (which I'm apparently not even allowed to disable?) is just a speech to text voice saying something like "this voicemail is not in use. Please send a text message or an email instead"
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Feb 24, 2024 10:05
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Anticheese posted:So long as you voicemail isn't "I am the system administrator, my voice is my passport. Verify me." Pfft, it's not like they're going to also guess my password of "Setec Astronomy".
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Feb 24, 2024 10:55
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My PIN is 4826 posted:I sure as hell will not give out a free sample of my voice for no reason, so my voicemail greeting (which I'm apparently not even allowed to disable?) is just a speech to text voice saying something like "this voicemail is not in use. Please send a text message or an email instead" Your username makes me doubt how security conscious your post claims you are.
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Feb 24, 2024 14:04
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:I meant like, does having a custom voicemail alert scammers/spam callers that it is in fact an active number? They're probably more likely to ignore a generic voicemail greeting. I mean, it’s a signal, sure, but not as strong a signal as “we left a voicemail and they called back.” I don’t know that they can really assume anything about a number based on the voicemail greeting, just because they are so infrequently set up in the first place.
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Feb 24, 2024 19:17
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My dad just got a “Hey dad, my phone isn’t working. Call me wt this number, it’s important!” text.
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Feb 24, 2024 19:38
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Professor Shark posted:My dad just got a “Hey dad, my phone isn’t working. Call me wt this number, it’s important!” text. I hope your sibling is ok
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Feb 24, 2024 20:19
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A_Bluenoser posted:And this is where I disagree: there will be situations where someone clever enough hitting you at exactly the right time that will be able to get you to do this and it is a bit of hubris to think that it is not possible. I am pretty aware of most of the scams that go round and I still know that I could get caught-out by something like a health emergency scam involving fraudsters impersonating my mother if they hit me at exactly the right time and played on my emotions just right. It would just be plain self-deception on my part to think that there is no situation where this could not happen. And this is where I disagree; you're making a claim about me based on no evidence other than assertion, then claiming that I'm arrogant because I don't believe that some stranger on the internet knows me better than I know myself. How on earth would my mother having a health emergency going to lead to 'need to give a bag of cash to someone in a car, so need to empty my savings account and ignore the person at the credit union who tries to stop me'? Hospitals and doctors don't work by handing bags of cash to someone in a car - immediate life saving treatment happens at the ER and then is billed later. If I thought my mom was in a medical emergency there are a lot of things I might panic and do, but withdrawing money into a paper bag to hand to a dude in a car is not on the list. Accusing someone of 'hubris' while claiming to know them better than they know themselves is certainly a look. Some people put their whole savings account into a paper bag and hand it to a guy in a car, but a lot of people don't, and your idea that anyone would do so if someone just said some magic words is not based on reality. quote:The thing is that most people don't have a lawyer on speed-dial and might not really know how to get one, especially in a panic situation. There are also a lot of people who can't afford one unless one is appointed to them (which normally only happens after an arrest). I am a fairly successful upper middle-class professional and I don't really know how I would get a criminal lawyer on spec and would be worried about the cost even though I am pretty financially secure; it is one of those things that is easier said than done for many folks. I also don't have a lawyer on speed dial, and only vaguely know how to pick out a criminal lawyer. OTOH, I absolutely would not worry at all about the cost of a lawyer if I did believe that I was the subject of a police investigation and a cop was trying to intimidate me into saying or doing something, because the cost of not getting a lawyer in that case is years in prison, probably seizure of assets, loss of income for the years in prison, and loss of income after that because of the difficulty of getting a job that requires a background check with a felony record. I've seen what happens to people who are the subject of a police investigation and believe police are trying to help them and start giving information (much less committing crimes) at the behest of police, both on the news and in person, and if you're worried about the cost of a lawyer in the situation described I think you're not performing a realistic analysis of the costs. Anyone who can't afford to hire a lawyer unless one is appointed doesn't have $10k in a savings account (like I do) or $50k like the woman in the story does, which makes them immune to this particular scam as there won't be a large sum of money to withdraw into a paper bag to hand to the scammer. The absolute last thing that I'm going to do if I'm in a panic situation where I think the police are investigating me for something serious (in the example scam, financial fraud) is to continue the conversation with the alleged LEO in any way other than "I decline to answer any questions without a lawyer present", and I'm certainly not going to start doing things that could serve to dig me deeper like withdrawing money and making payments to someone in a car. And I certainly wouldn't keep quiet about it, I'd let everyone I know know so that if I do get arrested they at least have some idea what happened instead of me just vanishing quietly into the system for weeks or months before they figure it out.
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Feb 24, 2024 21:23
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Pantaloon Pontiff posted:Saying that there are categories of scams I would not fall for resulted in replies like: "Everyone likes to think they're too smart to be a sucker. Con artists love this, because you're absolutely not." "And you, oh great scam detector, can be a victim if the circumstances meet your specific criteria." " Yeah, thinking you’re not the person that can be scammed puts you halfway there for the scammer". So the argument does seem to be that I'm arrogant (or greedy, I guess) for thinking exactly what you said above. Oh hey John Smith are you back again? Thought you'd be too intelligent and rational to drop another  on a forum where you're in the top 20 ignored users.
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Feb 24, 2024 21:39
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Oh my god shut up
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Feb 24, 2024 21:41
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