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I like the ones where everything is Legion's fault
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Apr 6, 2024 02:05
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danbanana posted:Age of Xman might be the weirdest thing the Big 2 ever published. I don't know if it's good but it is bizarre poo poo that I expect people to rediscover in 15 years and go nuts over. I should probably give it another go at some point because it sounds like something I might like but just the books were not very fun to read too me and as an Unlimited reader were coming against the Hickman stuff which got me to be a live comic buyer again.
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Apr 6, 2024 02:07
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danbanana posted:Age of X is severely underrated. Age of X is extremely loving good.
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Apr 6, 2024 02:28
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Holy poo poo, I browsed through some X-men issues of some storyline involving ghost boxes and it was just some of the the grimmest, most nihilistic thing I ever read. Yeah, I really needed to see Cyclops commit suicide by beheading himself with his optic blasts. And Armor grief-killing an addled Beast, then cook a decrepit, wheelchair-bound Logan for 8 hours until his healing factor gave out. They really had no loving idea what to do with these books in the 2007-2019 period, huh?
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Apr 6, 2024 02:44
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Rick posted:I should probably give it another go at some point because it sounds like something I might like but just the books were not very fun to read too me and as an Unlimited reader were coming against the Hickman stuff which got me to be a live comic buyer again. It works better the 2nd time imo. Once you get past the weirdness, you really appreciate the weirdness. Still not sure if it's good though. rantmo posted:Age of X is extremely loving good. When my friends and I did a read of post-Claremont events, Age of X ranked only behind Messiah Complex in my evaluation. A rare story that starts very big and turns very personal. The twist is great too.
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Apr 6, 2024 02:46
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Sephyr posted:Holy poo poo, I browsed through some X-men issues of some storyline involving ghost boxes and it was just some of the the grimmest, most nihilistic thing I ever read. IIRC this was Warren Ellis doing his ultraviolence thing followed by various people trying their best to top X-Force.
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Apr 6, 2024 03:02
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I still don't understand what the Ghost Box did, other than something real bad.
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Apr 6, 2024 03:20
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GOD IS BED posted:Mike Carey's X-Men run is tied with Hickman's for my personal favorite. Sad that almost no writers remember it. Agreed on this and Age of X. Carey's X-Men Legacy is my personal second favourite after Claremont's Uncanny, it's really good. It's just solid, strong superhero comics.
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Apr 6, 2024 14:32
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age of x was an outlier because the main book was excellent but the side books were poo poo. they were all about characters and events that took place outside of the bubble reality, meaning they never actually happened. there was never an age of x captain america or hulk or whatever.
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Apr 6, 2024 18:59
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Sephyr posted:I was catching up on Death of X and it just struck me how loving _bonkers_ the Marvel Universe populace is. to be the slightest bit fair, at least, like you said, the Terrigen was dodge-able if you didn't want to chance it. If you don't want mutant powers and were born with an X-gene that makes you glow hot pink well tough poo poo pal that's genetic, go to gently caress Island or have fun dodging Sentinels or some poo poo.
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Apr 6, 2024 20:11
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My memory of it was also the mists would kill mutants on contact but the mutants were also in the wrong for not wanting that for some reason.
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Apr 6, 2024 22:44
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Roth posted:My memory of it was also the mists would kill mutants on contact but the mutants were also in the wrong for not wanting that for some reason. Yes. The narrative was also very dumbed down in that it would take literally 15 minutes of talk between a few of the leaders/big brains to sort it out. But since there there had to be a big fight and torn loyalties, everyone had their moron/petty caps on*. They make a big deal out of Hank and Inhuman scientists going "We tried everything and we cannot change the cloud or get a vaccine!" But at one point Forge had a literal device that sucks up and condenses the Terrigen "For later incineration". It gets remade later, but then it's remade in the nick of time. "Why not drain it, take it to moon, fill up a dome of it or something and have people walk in to get their powers?" "Umm...there's no time! Time to fight!" *: Nothing against a inter-faction event and some face-punching between heroes, but at least give it some decent build-up and pathos.
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Apr 7, 2024 01:40
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Roth posted:My memory of it was also the mists would kill mutants on contact but the mutants were also in the wrong for not wanting that for some reason. It was actually quite stupid. There are two clouds of mist that were of religious significance to the Inhumans. When it’s discovered the Mists kill mutants, the mutants destroy one of the Clouds which upsets the Inhumans. Black Bolt murders Cyclops in retaliation, and the Inhumans offer to bring the mutants off Earth until the mists pass. The mutants have a conference with Emma pushing for War and Beast supporting temporary exile. Emma’s stance wins, and Beast soon after discovers the mists will infect the atmosphere and render it permanently toxic for mutants. He decides he wants to talk to the Inhumans first but is knocked out by Storm who supports the war before he can. Later after the fighting has been going for a while, Medusa is told that the mists will permanently poison the earth for mutants, and endorses destroying the remaining cloud. Also It’s revealed that Black Bolt didn’t kill Cyclops the mists did, Emma used her telepathy to project the illusion that Black Blot did, so that the Inhumans would be seen as the aggressors, so she could push the pro war agenda. But it turns out everything could have been resolved easily by talking. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Apr 7, 2024 |
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Apr 7, 2024 02:00
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I mean, it was so dumb that when they do inspect a toxic site with dead people all over the lawn, no one wears a hazmat suit. And then when they fly a mutant into the cloud to detox it, none of the two doing the job are protected.
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Apr 7, 2024 02:11
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Emma is probably at some of her most villainous during that story, using her illusion of Scott as a mouthpiece for war, and then as a martyr to spark it.
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Apr 7, 2024 02:41
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MonsterEnvy posted:Emma is probably at some of her most villainous during that story, using her illusion of Scott as a mouthpiece for war, and then as a martyr to spark it. Yeah, Emma's sudden turn back to villainy felt like character assassination.
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Apr 7, 2024 02:42
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, Emma's sudden turn back to villainy felt like character assassination. I mean, you -could- try to pass it as her being in shock over seeing Scott die so suddenly and meanly. It opens another can of worms (a strong-willed, smart woman just going nuts because she lost her man), but it's _something_. But yeah, character assassination was going around a lot in that era. Also, it was odd that at first they went with "The mutants just changed the cloud to no longer affect them but it retains its other properties" and then immediately retconned it into "actually they destroyed it" because the Inhumans would be even bigger jerks if they were willing to fight a war and vaporize Cyclops just because their sacred cloud was 0.003% chemically distinct.
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Apr 7, 2024 03:12
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One of the best things that ever happened to the X-line was ignoring all the poo poo Emma did at the end of that. Don't engage with it, don't retcon it, just ignore it wholesale.
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Apr 7, 2024 03:14
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I think Marvel's strategy of retconning certain things by just completely ignoring them is a good one. Like, I don't think anything was really done to redeem Black Cat from that time she was a murder happy Kingpin beyond her just not being that anymore, and I'm fine with that.
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Apr 7, 2024 03:32
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I understand that that run and the one that followed it are almost entirely ignored presently, other than the characters they brought back.
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Apr 7, 2024 04:00
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rantmo posted:One of the best things that ever happened to the X-line was ignoring all the poo poo Emma did at the end of that. Don't engage with it, don't retcon it, just ignore it wholesale. This is, oddly when you actually say it, usually a strength of Marvel's to just ignore it and move on.
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Apr 7, 2024 04:22
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Sephyr posted:I mean, you -could- try to pass it as her being in shock over seeing Scott die so suddenly and meanly. It opens another can of worms (a strong-willed, smart woman just going nuts because she lost her man), but it's _something_. it's a shame it turns into such a mess, because the initial plot--Scott dying alone in an accident and Emma creating a psychic doppelganger of him she can use to give his death meaning--is a tremendously good beat. Shame about literally everything else surrounding the event.
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Apr 7, 2024 04:32
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And there were even some fun pointers and tells about the twist. Emma gatekeeping access to Cyke when others try to see him. People walking into a room, seeing only Emma, and then seeing Scott was also there behind a locker. And her getting nosebleeds and looking ragged when the Inhumans arrive because she's having to project into more and stronger minds. I don't quite know how she got the images of him "dying" on camera, but oh well.
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Apr 7, 2024 14:01
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Going back to Resurrection of Magneto and the Pantheon of Evil Entities that are aspects of something else. I saw a post that this is likely another call back to Defenders like Enigma is. There was an ancient evil called Anti-All there that was defeated and shattered into multiple shards that spread throughout reality, it was said that various evil beings were spawned by those shards, Knull and the Chaos King being given as examples.
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Apr 8, 2024 01:01
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MonsterEnvy posted:Going back to Resurrection of Magneto and the Pantheon of Evil Entities that are aspects of something else. I saw a post that this is likely another call back to Defenders like Enigma is. There was an ancient evil called Anti-All there that was defeated and shattered into multiple shards that spread throughout reality, it was said that various evil beings were spawned by those shards, Knull and the Chaos King being given as examples. Al Ewing is just fixated on the "as above, so below" macrocosm/microcosm kind of occultism but I can't take him seriously on it because he also thinks tarot cards are deep
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Apr 8, 2024 11:11
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the answers to the mysteries in immortal hulk were all pretty weak, yeah. but oh, what a ride.
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Apr 8, 2024 11:58
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Al Ewing is just fixated on the "as above, so below" macrocosm/microcosm kind of occultism but I can't take him seriously on it because he also thinks tarot cards are deep X of Swords says what?
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Apr 8, 2024 14:07
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:the answers to the mysteries in immortal hulk were all pretty weak, yeah. but oh, what a ride. Honestly, the fact that the story only really underwhelmed right at the very end is still pretty amazing. 49+ issues of great stuff and a slight stumble at the finish line is nothing to sneeze at.
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Apr 9, 2024 00:44
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I'm curious as to what mystery people were disappointed with re: Immortal Hulk. Maybe it's my more recent re-read coloring my perception but I was never really left with a feeling of disappointment on the level of "What did Nick Fury whisper to Thor?" or "Who is Hush?" I honestly really think there was a "big question" style mystery to the story at all, considering the What if god had a Hulk? stuff comes up fairly early.
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Apr 9, 2024 01:07
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I dunno, the whole 'what if the real Strongest One There Is was Jehovah Himself, because forgiveness is the real strength' thing just fell a bit flat, like it was reaching for something grandiose and profound when most of the best parts of the series were visceral and personal. I also remember the whole Banner backstory stuff in the final issue feeling incredible rushed.
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Apr 9, 2024 01:21
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The big picture stuff in Immortal Hulk works for me because it makes a good meta commentary on the character itself. Long-running serialized types like Hulk are uniquely well-suited for these kinds of stories because their lives are often so hosed up it's hard not to see it as them being the abused plaything of a lovely higher power (and he kind of is, that higher power being the writers and the audience). So to that end, you have the idea of life itself frequently being a nightmare because god, too, has a Hulk. But, as demonstrated by Bruce, the only way you keep that sometimes uncontrollable feeling of oppression from turning you into a miserable nightmare yourself is to struggle towards your better nature. I can see how that wouldn't be satisfying in a traditional nuts and bolts story sense, but it makes a nice bow to tie on the type of story Immortal Hulk is. All the big question stuff and thematic overtures were there from the get-go, after all. If nothing else, it worked for me better than the cosmology stuff in Defenders/New Defenders; I enjoyed those books but for as cute as all the 4-Color ages of creation stuff it dealt with was, I couldn't shake the feeling it's gonna be blatantly ignored by whoever comes along and writes stories of a similar scale next, despite seeming really pretty significant in the grand scale of things
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Apr 9, 2024 04:01
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I'm sorry a Hulk comic didn't have a satisfactory answer for The Problem of Evil.
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Apr 9, 2024 04:40
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Nessus posted:I still don't understand what the Ghost Box did, other than something real bad. IIRC, it was Ellis plagiarizing a couple of his own plots from The Authority. They're a dirty method of travel between alternate dimensions. The timeline that uses them is actively engaged in takeover attempts against nearby parallels because overuse of ghost boxes can wreck local space-time.
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Apr 9, 2024 06:05
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Oh so this is the actual X-Men thread, I've ben kinda clogging up the general Marvel thread. My bad. I'm diving into Krakoa to try and catch up with modern X-Men stuff, although I wanna try and go back and read older things when I can. I'm an abysmally slow reader so I am making priorities. I'm only reading X-Men, Marauders, and Excalibur here at the start of " Dawn of X Wave One Titles" as the guide I'm following lists them. X-Men is 100% my favorite of these three.  Although Apocalypse makes Excalibur more interesting at least. EDIT: Also the teasers for these new X-Men comics havs some people in an uproar because one of them says "welcome back to the real world." People take this as a slight to the Krakoa Era and that the new comic is claiming to be more mature or important. I took it as a cynical commentary on how everyone has left (been expelled from?) what is explicitly called paradise and are now back in a big city where they are hated and have to scrape for every crumb they get. But I guess I don't really know. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Apr 9, 2024 |
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Apr 9, 2024 11:25
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NikkolasKing posted:Oh so this is the actual X-Men thread, I've ben kinda clogging up the general Marvel thread. My bad. Hellions is the best Dawn of X book
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Apr 9, 2024 11:40
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Veg posted:Hellions is the best Dawn of X book That is on my To Read list but it hasn't started where I'm at. It's Wave Two.
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Apr 9, 2024 11:44
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NikkolasKing posted:Although Apocalypse makes Excalibur more interesting at least. I wish Excalibur was more interesting than it is, but having Apocalypse as a main character was an absolute delight and I treasure every minute of it. Later books spoilers: X of Swords was great and the big A got a good sendoff, but man would I have loved for him to stick around longer. I hope we don't just go right back to the standard pool of villains in the post Fall of X stuff. Not that Apocalypse and Sinister wouldn't have valid reasons to oppose the X-Men, but that more than anything would feel like a retread.
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Apr 9, 2024 11:50
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rantmo posted:One of the best things that ever happened to the X-line was ignoring all the poo poo Emma did at the end of that. Don't engage with it, don't retcon it, just ignore it wholesale. This seems to be what they've done with the whole theory Wolverine and Sabretooth are part of some other branch of humans that evolved from lupines or whatever. Although, on a somewhat related note, I was very confused to hear Daken is part of X-Factor. Last I heard he was very much evil, although that was a good while ago now. But anyway, reading up on it, there was no redemption arc for him, somebody named Leah Williams just decided "he's a bad (gently caress) boi now" and that was that. This general trend of "evil person is not evil anymore" seems to be a central complaint of Krakoa Era. I loved X-Men #4 but I admittedly don't know much about Gorgon or why his not murdering people is so out of character. Sebastian Shaw seems perfectly in character to me, though. He's a businessman doing evil businessman things. Krakoa is a great opportunity for him to enrich himself, why gently caress it up. He's not Sabretooth, he doesn't kill or cause mayhem for the fun of it. I don't think, anyway. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Apr 9, 2024 |
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Apr 9, 2024 13:26
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Having read it all in one chunk, the ending of Immortal Hulk was great and actually made sense and felt great in context
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Apr 9, 2024 13:32
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So, X-Men #35 is Uncanny #700, anybody crazy enough to make sense of that detail? Also interesting that these X-Men books are considered a continuation of that and not adjectiveless X-Men (which became Legacy etc). And a related niche question, for a bit in the 90s it seemed adjectiveless was the main X-Men book, or a little more important. Did that power struggle flip back to Uncanny, and what do you think about that, or are they equal? I'm guessing Gail Simone's Uncanny coming up will be the marquee book, or at least it looks the most interesting to me. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Apr 9, 2024 |
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