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Mr_Zombie posted:I've been watching through WWF PPVs from '96 at a steady rate. I just beasted through the last few ones and it left me with a couple of questions.
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Jan 19, 2013 08:57
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Dr. Video Games 0055 posted:To this day I am shocked that Orlando Jordan slipped under the radar of the gay activist community because holy poo poo.
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Jan 19, 2013 09:41
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Gonz posted:Terry Gordy. He died in 2001. Well that's not funny at all...
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Jan 19, 2013 09:51
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Big Coffin Hunter posted:Well that's not funny at all... But this is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJj9wDlgP3I
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Jan 19, 2013 10:15
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Michael PS Hayes should have been karate chopped in the throat until dead by a random biker gang.
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Jan 19, 2013 10:28
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Minidust posted:And if it actually got press, it would be presented as "Former WWE wrestler outrages activists" with no mention of TNA. Don't be ridiculous. It would be presented as "WWE wrestler outrages activists", with a picture of Vince McMahon with his pants pulled down and laughing.
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Jan 19, 2013 10:31
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Okay, I've only been a real fan of wrestling for a couple of months so forgive me for this stupid question, but why do people hate John Cena? I get that he's been the same character for ten years. I get that people are sick of seeing him win all the time. I get that he doesn't have the greatest in-ring skills. But why do they hate *him*? Why do people get mad at *him* when he kicks out of finishers? He didn't book the match. He didn't decide who was going to win. Or did he? Is Cena really influential backstage? I'm not caught up on all the politics just yet, so again I'm sorry for asking a stupid question.
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Jan 19, 2013 14:00
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paint dry posted:Okay, I've only been a real fan of wrestling for a couple of months so forgive me for this stupid question, but why do people hate John Cena? I get that he's been the same character for ten years. I get that people are sick of seeing him win all the time. I get that he doesn't have the greatest in-ring skills. John Cena has a nasty habit of no-selling everything. Grueling 60 minute match? Last 30 seconds he just stops selling and acts like it's the beginning of the match again. He sells like death until he stops selling at all. But most annoyingly of all, he no sells his own stories. Grueling fight against Brock Lesner that almost broke his arm? Whatever. Lover turned on you and betrayed you? Whatever. Boss trying to keep you down? Whatever. He just doesn't really seem to care what's going on in the world around him. RealFoxy fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Jan 19, 2013 |
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Jan 19, 2013 14:18
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paint dry posted:Okay, I've only been a real fan of wrestling for a couple of months so forgive me for this stupid question, but why do people hate John Cena? I get that he's been the same character for ten years. I get that people are sick of seeing him win all the time. I get that he doesn't have the greatest in-ring skills. It's impossible to dominate the top of the card and not become influential backstage. That goes for non-action as well. A nuclear weapon hasn't been used in combat in over half a century, but people always take the guys who hold them seriously no matter how pathetic their abilities are in every other respect. Think of Ryback as the Kim Jong-Un of wrestling. The worst things that have come out about Cena personally is that he's a complete workaholic and devoted company man. That causes it's own problems, but nothing on the level of horrible stuff much more talented men than Cena have done to keep power backstage. Both those qualities I mentioned that people hate about Cena have actually kept him from being truly reviled by a large segment of fans, even retarded mouth-breathers like Scott Keith.
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Jan 19, 2013 14:18
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paint dry posted:Or did he? Is Cena really influential backstage? I'm not caught up on all the politics just yet, so again I'm sorry for asking a stupid question. Cena's basically their top top non-guest star at the moment, so he could walk up to Vince or Steph or whoever and say "Listen, me winning this match is stupid, I'm not doing it, let's change the finish" and they'd change it, simply because he's their top guy and that's not someone you'd want to piss off.
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Jan 19, 2013 14:21
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Devil Child posted:It's impossible to dominate the top of the card and not become influential backstage. People are mad because Cena is doing his job?  But I can kind of see what you mean. Hell I'm sick of watching him win and I didn't even know who he was three months ago. If you'd mentioned him to me then I'd say "John Cena? Wasn't he in that lovely movie The Marine?"
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Jan 19, 2013 14:22
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Zagrod posted:Cena's basically their top top non-guest star at the moment, so he could walk up to Vince or Steph or whoever and say "Listen, me winning this match is stupid, I'm not doing it, let's change the finish" and they'd change it, simply because he's their top guy and that's not someone you'd want to piss off. This. It might be the booking that's the problem, but a guy in his position has the power to directly affect booking. This is where being a company man becomes a problem. If the bookers tell him "You're going to win the title again", instead of saying "No, that's stupid, I'll take the loss", he'll just say "Alright  "
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Jan 19, 2013 14:25
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paint dry posted:People are mad because Cena is doing his job? A professional wrestler's job* , is about more than what your boss tells you. It's about ensuring long term viability for your field, and granting your field the most profit possible both in money and human talent. Obviously, Cena should win a lot. He's a main eventer, a big guy, and still has a long time before retirement barring a Stone Cold-esque injury: but if people don't believe there's anybody who seriously has a chance to bring Cena down, or that any of Cena's actions have consequences, they're not going to believe anything he does matters, and will thus stop watching his segments. Since Cena's the most important full timer in the company, giving up on him essentially means giving up on WWE. Since WWE is pro-wrestling in 2012, giving up on WWE essentially means giving up on the sport altogether. No viewers means no future prospects, no future prospects means no future stars, and no future stars means no more pro-wrestling at all. Oddly enough, Cena doesn't even have to lose for people to see what he does as important. The Undertaker's 20-0 at 'Mania, and his matches have been the most important on the card for the last half a decade because the idea of Undertaker losing is important to people. It isn't with Cena, because outside his feud with Punk, the guy doesn't take any active wrestler seriously. *Though this is really true for anyone who takes their profession seriously.
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Jan 19, 2013 14:43
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Devil Child posted:A professional wrestler's job* , is about more than what your boss tells you. It's about ensuring long term viability for your field, and granting your field the most profit possible both in money and human talent. I guess I hadn't really realised all this. Thanks!
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Jan 19, 2013 14:47
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No problem. Your not the only one who misses it, though. A lot of people who hate Cena and fantasy book the ways they want him to lose would give us worse results than what we already have. Y'know the type, the same kind of guys who draw hobbyist comic books where every character who loses a limb recovers instantly after the fight's over, and all the heroes are dark and edgy in the 90's-ist sense of the term.
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Jan 19, 2013 14:55
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Flameingblack posted:John Cena has a nasty habit of no-selling everything. Grueling 60 minute match? Last 30 seconds he just stops selling and acts like it's the beginning of the match again. He sells like death until he stops selling at all. But most annoyingly of all, he no sells his own stories. Grueling fight against Brock Lesner that almost broke his arm? Whatever. Lover turned on you and betrayed you? Whatever. Boss trying to keep you down? Whatever. He just doesn't really seem to care what's going on in the world around him. Yeah, he constantly and repeatedly makes everything he's involved in not matter in the slightest. There is nothing to look forward to out of a Cena feud because at the end of it he's always a cocky rear end in a top hat with a poo poo-eating grin regardless of what happened.
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Jan 19, 2013 14:55
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It's hard to understand why people hate Cena if you haven't been living the past 10 years of him overcoming all the odds, week in and week out
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Jan 19, 2013 15:34
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TBH I've hated him since the first time I saw him do his annoying "Rhyme with no beat or rhythm and call myself a rapper" gimmick. The fact that he became a fake Marine/ Superman only fanned the flames.
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Jan 19, 2013 15:49
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I don't hate Cena. 5 Questions with the Champ is the best internet show the WWE has ever made and it's funny how mad people get about him. Makes me remember how mad HHH made me.
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Jan 19, 2013 15:55
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As a new fan I guess the main thing I hate is the 5 Knuckle Shuffle. Like. What is that thing. He slams his hand down on the mat? Edit: in case it's not clear I'm being obtuse, I know what it's *supposed* to look like but you can always see it hitting the mat.
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Jan 19, 2013 15:57
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Devil Child posted:The Undertaker's 20-0 at 'Mania, and his matches have been the most important on the card for the last half a decade because the idea of Undertaker losing is important to people. No, his WM matches are important to people because they're consistently 4+ star, amazing matches. No one over the age of 12 thinks Taker is going to lose, and the idea of him losing is important to no one. Take Flair/HBK for example. Literally everyone knew how that match was going to end, but it was extremely important and hyped up because we knew what to expect, quality wise. Also, Cena has always struck me as a fake, phony, sociopath kiss rear end. Look at his tremendous acting job during the Eddie tribute. I've hated him since the moment I saw this. It's so loving phony, especially when it's contrasted by genuine guys like the Big Show/Chavo/Benoit doing their tributes later in the show. http://youtu.be/IOHgpmNj0Zw?t=6m13s
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Jan 19, 2013 16:00
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paint dry posted:As a new fan I guess the main thing I hate is the 5 Knuckle Shuffle. Like. What is that thing. He slams his hand down on the mat? Moves like the 5 Knuckle Shuffle and the People's Elbow aren't supposed to be taken seriously. They were both created while the Rock and Cena were heels as a means to show contempt for their opponents ability, but both moves got so over they use them regardless of Face/Heel status. Even Chris Benoit had something like this with the Snot Loogie.
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Jan 19, 2013 16:03
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Paulocaust posted:Also, Cena has always struck me as a fake, phony, sociopath kiss rear end. Look at his tremendous acting job during the Eddie tribute. I've hated him since the moment I saw this. It's so loving phony, especially when it's contrasted by genuine guys like the Big Show/Chavo/Benoit doing their tributes later in the show. Hey, big man here can decide whether someone feels legitimate about someone dying or not!
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Jan 19, 2013 16:12
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Paulocaust posted:No, his WM matches are important to people because they're consistently 4+ star, amazing matches. No one over the age of 12 thinks Taker is going to lose, and the idea of him losing is important to no one. Take Flair/HBK for example. Literally everyone knew how that match was going to end, but it was extremely important and hyped up because we knew what to expect, quality wise. This couldn't be further from the truth. Lots of guys have consistent ****+ matches when you put them on the card, and if this were the reason people cared about Undertaker's matches they could just put him against DBD or Ziggler instead of two other old guys held together with superglue, thumbtacks, and prayers to Jesus. Only WWE didn't do this because nobody in the Universe actually believes anybody outside those guys stands even the slightest chance of winning. It's true this leeway only extends so far, which is why putting Kane or Sting in there would loving blow, but it's definitely as important as the ability of the people involved. On another note, virtually everyone knew that even if Flair brought his absolute A-Game for that match, which he did, he was still old enough to be the dad or granddad of everyone else in the company except Vince and thus there would likely be a slow match with a few botches. Exactly that happened. The table spot was really badly botched, Flair moved at about half the speed he had in his match with Michaels at Badd Blood, and none of it mattered because it was motherfucking Ric Flair vs. HBK in Flair's retirement match. Paulocaust posted:Also, Cena has always struck me as a fake, phony, sociopath kiss rear end. Look at his tremendous acting job during the Eddie tribute. I've hated him since the moment I saw this. It's so loving phony, especially when it's contrasted by genuine guys like the Big Show/Chavo/Benoit doing their tributes later in the show. Okay, your avatar isn't nearly insulting enough. Good God, you're a loving moron.
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Jan 19, 2013 16:19
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Paulocaust posted:Also, Cena has always struck me as a fake, phony, sociopath kiss rear end. Look at his tremendous acting job during the Eddie tribute. I've hated him since the moment I saw this. It's so loving phony, especially when it's contrasted by genuine guys like the Big Show/Chavo/Benoit doing their tributes later in the show. Yeah, I don't get your point here. This doesn't seem phony at all.
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Jan 19, 2013 16:22
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You believe people think Undertaker is going to lose at Wrestlemania in obvious retirement matches and bouts against HHH that are clearly set up just to put on a ***** classic, but I'm the moron for having an opinion about someone. Alright.
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Jan 19, 2013 16:22
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Paulocaust posted:You believe people think Undertaker is going to lose at Wrestlemania in obvious retirement matches and bouts against HHH that are clearly set up just to put on a ***** classic, but I'm the moron for having an opinion about someone. Alright. You think he's faking emotion over Eddie dying. That's a pretty lovely opinion. Right up there with Sandy Hook truthers thinking the father faked his emotion because he laughed once before talking to the media.
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Jan 19, 2013 16:25
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:You think he's faking emotion over Eddie dying. That's a pretty lovely opinion. Right up there with Sandy Hook truthers thinking the father faked his emotion because he laughed once before talking to the media. Yes, how amazing it would be to see someone be disingenuous in the wrestling business.
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Jan 19, 2013 16:29
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Paulocaust posted:You believe people think Undertaker is going to lose at Wrestlemania in obvious retirement matches and bouts against HHH that are clearly set up just to put on a ***** classic, but I'm the moron for having an opinion about someone. Alright. No, that just makes you incorrect. It's your actions and personality that make you a loving moron.
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Jan 19, 2013 16:31
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Devil Child posted:No, that just makes you incorrect. It's your actions and personality that make you a loving moron. You're the only one attacking and name-calling like a child over someone having a difference of opinion on the internet. I'm done de-railing though. I don't post in wrestling threads enough to warrant a tangent like this.
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Jan 19, 2013 16:33
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Paulocaust posted:You're the only one attacking and name-calling like a child over someone having a difference of opinion on the internet. I'm done de-railing though. I don't post in wrestling threads enough to warrant a tangent like this. Oh, come now, my dear confidant. There are plenty of opinions you can have that show you're a terrible person, I'm sure you even partake in a few of them, Mr. Dylan Avery. Oops, I hope you don't get too offended that I gave away your real name.
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Jan 19, 2013 16:37
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Devil Child posted:character who loses a limb recovers instantly after the fight's over, and all the heroes are dark and edgy in the 90's-ist sense of the term. Kinda like Cena and Orton
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Jan 19, 2013 16:45
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There are many adjectives which apply to Cena, dark and edgy are not in that list. edit: The limb thing though, that Cena fits to the letter.
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Jan 19, 2013 16:47
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I'm a big John Cena fan. I think he's a very good worker and can talk really well. I just wish his character gave a poo poo about when he loses, and showed that someone could get under his skin. The loss to the Rock should've done more to tamp down his obnoxiousness, but he's been all BACK OFF JACK OFF ever since. Which is weird, considering how he said losing to the Rock would pretty much be the worst thing to ever happen to him.
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Jan 19, 2013 18:04
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TL posted:I'm a big John Cena fan. I think he's a very good worker and can talk really well. I just wish his character gave a poo poo about when he loses, and showed that someone could get under his skin. The loss to the Rock should've done more to tamp down his obnoxiousness, but he's been all BACK OFF JACK OFF ever since. Which is weird, considering how he said losing to the Rock would pretty much be the worst thing to ever happen to him. If the WWE were a film, one could look into all of John Cena's actions in 2012 as a man losing his self worth and having no idea what to do about it. On the surface he acts like the same care free guy who refuses to leave the ring despite injuries or odds but look at the timeline: - Gets his rear end kicked by Brock Lesnar but beats him in the end, only to cut a speech about taking time off that never happens. - Becomes Money in the Bank champion, announces his match early and then loses it, becoming the only person to ever lose a money in the bank match. - Refuses to give Punk respect and constantly tells him he has to face him in different matches to prove his integrity. But is he talking to Punk or talking to himself? Cena loses every single match. - After being unable to beat Punk, he injures his arm but continues to try to challenge him like the Black Knight in Monty Python, even trying to get a Hell in a Cell match. He is soon pushed aside for a one liner hoss. - Gets back into the title scene after his arm heals and gets involved in a relationship with AJ, technically his first on screen relationship in the WWE (unless I'm missing someone). Ends up losing the triple threat at Survivor Series, which breaks his perfect record at Survivor Series. 2012 is the year where something Cena was perfect at (Survivor Series) is tarnished. Nobody treats this like a big deal. - Feuds with Dolph Ziggler in hopes of winning a Money in the Bank contract he never earned but ends up losing the match and his girlfriend in the process. Beats Dolph Ziggler a few times after but it doesn't matter because he still isn't Champion. John Cena can't even win a number one contender's match now. We're watching the downfall of a future legend. A man who couldn't lose if he tried and now he can't become Champion if he tried. Losing to The Rock was the worst loss of his career. His career hasn't been the same since and even though he tries to keep it cool on the surface, Cena is falling apart. If this were a film, it'd be easier to catch. But it isn't. It's pro wrestling. So instead it looks bad.
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Jan 19, 2013 18:26
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Devil Child posted:There are many adjectives which apply to Cena, dark and edgy are not in that list. Yeah I meant respectively. It's easy to not like a guy who always wins, especially when he beats smark favorites who are better workers (Christian, Jericho, Angle, HBK, Edge, etc.) or better on the mic (same list plus heel Batista) with the greatest of ease, year in and year out. That Make-a-Wish video from a couple months back actually got me a little choked up though. What makes those kids happy is probably more important than what makes us happy, business-wise and in general.
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Jan 19, 2013 18:39
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:technically his first on screen relationship in the WWE (unless I'm missing someone) Eve and Mickie James, but those were less obvious and shorter.
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Jan 19, 2013 19:01
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TL posted:I'm a big John Cena fan. I think he's a very good worker and can talk really well. I just wish his character gave a poo poo about when he loses, and showed that someone could get under his skin. The loss to the Rock should've done more to tamp down his obnoxiousness, but he's been all BACK OFF JACK OFF ever since. Which is weird, considering how he said losing to the Rock would pretty much be the worst thing to ever happen to him. The first time I've been properly, legitimately annoyed by a Cena match was the Ziggler match in the cage on RAW, so I'm probably a Cena fan too. I dunno, the guy's just exciting - he jumps around and slams into people and picks them up and smacks them down. It's entertaining, it's fun and I don't really care that he's acting like he never got hit because, to me, that's his gimmick. However, in ten years, when that's still his gimmick and it's the same poo poo night in night out, I know it'd piss me off, so I see why people get mad. I cheered when AJ turned on him because I was with a smark friend and it was a cool moment and I didn't think he would win or should have won the briefcase. Basically, I enjoy cheering for him at the right times and enjoy booing him at the right times. There was some tag match (probably on Smackdown) where he AA'd Ziggler in time with Sheamus Irish Cursing (I think? that thing where they're like wrapped around him) Big Show and it was awesome. I don't like the idea of him winning the rumble or facing Rock for the title at WM or winning that either, though, so in 3 months I'll likely be as mad as the rest of you.
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Jan 19, 2013 19:04
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Paper Jam Dipper posted:We're watching the downfall of a future legend. A man who couldn't lose if he tried and now he can't become Champion if he tried. Losing to The Rock was the worst loss of his career. His career hasn't been the same since and even though he tries to keep it cool on the surface, Cena is falling apart. If this were a film, it'd be easier to catch. But it isn't. It's pro wrestling. So instead it looks bad. Also, you know, the announcers or, gently caress, anyone could try and sell it like this to the audience. But it feels more like an accident you can string this narrative together than anything that was actually intended.
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Jan 19, 2013 19:05
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My big concern now is that WWE has no idea how to book a top face anymore. Sheamus is having the same issue now, where he's rapidly turning all jokey and not taking anything seriously. It's weird, too, because its so far from his original character: he was a big Irish dude who likes to beat people up. All you need to do to make him a face is change his targets to heels. Instead, he's a big, happy go lucky smiling dude who hasn't shown any real anger over losing the World Title.
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Jan 19, 2013 20:39
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